84 réponses à ce sujet

[Hair Serious Business]

...is not something people tend to actually they don't like it all!

 

Reason for it is usually you get limited choices, for me however I dislike it because you got no clue what the heck you are about to say/ do which = hit reload to try and chose wanted option next time.

 

Limited choices for me aren't issue, I rather have just 2 choices within each step that are going to affect my gameplay rather then hundred so called "choices" that aren't going to affect a thing within a game. However I don't look forward to...

^THIS!

 

Because I have no clue in hell what my protagonist is gonna say or do in here. We are pretty much playing 'blind game' in here with lets pick random thing and hope it is what we wanted in this situation and if not then lets hit reload and try again until we find respond/s we wanted for just one simple conversation in here. This is what I can't stand about dialogue wheels in here!

 

True sometimes this is good thing like when picking sarcastic response in FO4 in where you get surprise joke of what your protagonist will say, that was fun...but still I think we all can agree this is what we want when it comes to picking choices/decisions for our protagonist to be like:

Because ^this isn't hard to do now is it? It is simple and it makes even thing as dialogue wheel with limited choices tolerable because you know know which choices you are about to make in first place.

 

Because lets face it, we want to know what the heck we are about to say/agree on and we do not want to play betting game in here of did we made right bet on right horse or if didn't lets bet again until we make it.

 

Now I'm not here to tell EA/BioWare how to their damn job, however as customer I have right at suggesting of what I would like to see/ improved in one of their games and I at least want to know what the heck my protagonist is about to say and what the hell am I about to chose  here in first place. I don't know does EA/BioWare even visit and read these forums(can't blame them if they don't), however if there is even one roaming around all what I would like to ask is for them to consider of how 'dialogue wheel' will be handled in upcoming game. 

Because as I said limited choices aren't problem as long as they are CHOICES WITH RIGHT CONSEQUENCES, but not knowing what decisions you are making/about to make seriously isn't so much fun thing because you will spend your entire "gameplay" hitting damn reload over and over again trying to get your wanted choice.

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

100% agreed.

If we don't know what we're choosing, we're not choosing. We're hoping.

We need perfect information about what each option will cause our character to say and do. Only then can we be said to have chosen among those options.

[AlanC9]

Pass. I can always pick out which of the available lines is the right one for my PC (except for one bad paraphrase in DA2), and I'd rather not read a line and then hear the line if I'm not getting any advantage from doing it.

[Big Bad]

Pass. I can always pick out which of the available lines is the right one for my PC (except for one bad paraphrase in DA2), and I'd rather not read a line and then hear the line if I'm not getting any advantage from doing it.

Agreed.  Having "perfect information" regarding what the PC is going to say sounds extremely boring and unsatisfying to me.  I want to be able to more-or-less accurately predict the general tone of the response and nothing more.

[Hair Serious Business]

Pass. I can always pick out which of the available lines is the right one for my PC (except for one bad paraphrase in DA2), and I'd rather not read a line and then hear the line if I'm not getting any advantage from doing it.

 

As I said it can be fun at times to pick at blind(like sarcastic option) but at "key moment" or in just simple conversation with your companion or some NPC that requires you to pick option....I don't see much fun at me picking at random thinking "Wow yeah this is what I mean" then when I pick my protagonist says/does something way opposite of what I wanted in here and I either have to keep playing despite of what just happened and what I just did or hit reload and try to find correct response.

 

Nah, this now sounds even more less fun and way more annoying then reading and knowing your response upfront now does it.

[RoboticWater]

As I said it can be fun at times to pick at blind(like sarcastic option) but at "key moment" or in just simple conversation with your companion or some NPC that requires you to pick option....I don't see much fun at me picking at random thinking "Wow yeah this is what I mean" then when I pick my protagonist says/does something way opposite of what I wanted in here and I either have to keep playing despite of what just happened and what I just did or hit reload and try to find correct response.

 

Nah, this now sounds even more less fun and way more annoying then reading and knowing your response upfront now does it.

Calling BioWare's dialog "blind," and "random," is disingenuous, especially when considering how well DA:I handled it.

 

I like paraphrasing for the same reason I dislike subtitles: I hate repetition. If I've already read the dialog, I'm more likely to just skip the VO even if the VO makes the experience more engaging.

[Enigmatick]

Agreed.  Having "perfect information" regarding what the PC is going to say sounds extremely boring and unsatisfying to me.  I want to be able to more-or-less accurately predict the general tone of the response and nothing more.

It's really unsatisfying to know what you're actually going to say?

 

Hell this whole comment reads like some kind of dev astroturfing.

[RoboticWater]

It's really unsatisfying to know what you're actually going to say?

 

Hell this whole comment reads like some kind of dev astroturfing.

Yes, it's repetitive.

[Enigmatick]

Yes, it's repetitive.

Only as much as you make it. The Deus Ex devs still have the perfect system for this.

[Big Bad]

It's really unsatisfying to know what you're actually going to say?

 

Hell this whole comment reads like some kind of dev astroturfing.

To me, it is definitely unsatisfying to know exactly what I'm going to say.  If they are going to give us cinematic dialogue, I want to experience it cinematically.  Maybe instead of accusing  me of astroturfing, you might take a second to realize that perhaps not everybody prefers to experience the game the same way that you do?

[Joseph Warrick]

Remember that scene from Lincoln when everybody is, once again, complaining that he's got delegates from the South waiting and that they're going to lose the votes and so on, and he punches the table and says, "I can't listen to this anymore".

 

Luckily, my presence on the forum is not as necessary as Abraham Lincoln's presence in the negotiations to end the American civil war and the institution of slavery. So I'm normally not here these days. But when I am, it would be sweet if you ****** people could talk about something else. Everyone's been crying over the paraphrases since 2006 man, holy ****.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Agreed. Having "perfect information" regarding what the PC is going to say sounds extremely boring and unsatisfying to me. I want to be able to more-or-less accurately predict the general tone of the response and nothing more.

How do you choose, then? How do you avoid saying something you don't want to say? How can you be in control of your character's mental state?

[Getorex]

100% agreed.

If we don't know what we're choosing, we're not choosing. We're hoping.

We need perfect information about what each option will cause our character to say and do. Only then can we be said to have chosen among those options.

 

I'll still take a wheel with multiple choices over only two.  I would prefer the tags to be more accurate, certainly.  There were a few times when the dialog wheel in all 3 games indicated something but when I chose that, oops, I didn't like the way that played out (more like, MY Shepard would not have said that).  In a few situations the short tag description were different enough from what was actually said that I did have to replay that part to avoid that choice again.

 

I wouldn't mind, in some cases, very generic descriptions for a convo that is intended to go a certain way: Sarcastic, Angry, Neutral, Funny as descriptors, for instance.

[BloodyMares]

There are 2 extremes: first is to paraphrase in a way that you can't even predict what will come out of your character's mouth and another is to write the complete line in a dialgue option which indeed feels repetitive. I think they should keep paraphrases but make them clearer. They need to convey the content of the line in an understandable manner so you won't end up reloading after picking an option and seeing that the line is nothing like what the paraphrase was. To make it better they need to include the choice of the tone as well. In previous games paragon had more passionate and kind tone, renegade was more like yelling and sometimes sarcastic and neutral...didn't have a particular tone. I'm sure paragon knows the meaning of sarcasm and renegade can control his anger. Paragon/Renegade are just not enough. And we still don't know what Paragon and Renegade actually mean. "Idealistic vs. practical? Merciful vs. Ruthless? Cunning vs. brutal? Doormat vs. leader? Sensible vs. sociopathic moron? You can find examples of all of these in the game." (by Shamus Young)

But most importantly, they need to make our PC smart for once. It was really difficult for me to play as dumb Shepard (naive paragon dumb, indecisive neutral dumb or biased/lunatic renegade dumb). If our character is having an argument we need to be able to have dialogue options that follow logic. If we're having a tough call, we need the option to make the most obvious and safest choice (or at least an explanation of why we can't make this choice). All the dumb lines ("I thought asari needed another species to reproduce") should be left in 'Investigate' section only so the player can better undestand what NPC is talking about but no dumb lines in actual right side of the dialogue wheel.

[Big Bad]

How do you choose, then? How do you avoid saying something you don't want to say? How can you be in control of your character's mental state?

I choose by inferring what the general tenor of the comment is likely to be and deciding if that is consistent with my character's attitude at the time.  Usually this works reasonably well.  When it doesn't I'm not particularly concerned, because I don't really care that much about avoiding saying something that I don't want my character to say.

[Mummy22kids]

Remember that scene from Lincoln when everybody is, once again, complaining that he's got delegates from the South waiting and that they're going to lose the votes and so on, and he punches the table and says, "I can't listen to this anymore".

 

Luckily, my presence on the forum is not as necessary as Abraham Lincoln's presence in the negotiations to end the American civil war and the institution of slavery. So I'm normally not here these days. But when I am, it would be sweet if you ****** people could talk about something else. Everyone's been crying over the paraphrases since 2006 man, holy ****.

 

We could talk about the endings if you'd prefer.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Remember that scene from Lincoln when everybody is, once again, complaining that he's got delegates from the South waiting and that they're going to lose the votes and so on, and he punches the table and says, "I can't listen to this anymore".

Luckily, my presence on the forum is not as necessary as Abraham Lincoln's presence in the negotiations to end the American civil war and the institution of slavery. So I'm normally not here these days. But when I am, it would be sweet if you ****** people could talk about something else. Everyone's been crying over the paraphrases since 2006 man, holy ****.

They were a bad idea then, and they're a bad idea now.

This will never stop being true.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I choose by inferring what the general tenor of the comment is likely to be and deciding if that is consistent with my character's attitude at the time. Usually this works reasonably well. When it doesn't I'm not particularly concerned, because I don't really care that much about avoiding saying something that I don't want my character to say.

I need to maintain the coherence of my character's design. Without that, there's no point playing.

Moreover, I find the literal meaning far more important than the tenor, which is to say that the literal meaning is all I care about.

What is said matters infinitely more than every other concern.

[Big Bad]

I need to maintain the coherence of my character's design. Without that, there's no point playing.

Moreover, I find the literal meaning far more important than the tenor, which is to say that the literal meaning is all I care about.

What is said matters infinitely more than every other concern.

I don't really agree with any of that.  I would much prefer that things stay closer to where they have been than to see your suggestions implemented.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't really agree with any of that. I would much prefer that things stay closer to where they have been than to see your suggestions implemented.

Mass Effect was a huge departure for BioWare, and it was a mistake in almost every respect.

[LightningPoodle]

If we have the options spelling out everything we're going to say, we might as well go back to silent protagonists.

[RoboticWater]

Mass Effect was a huge departure for BioWare, and it was a mistake in almost every respect.

Implying that Mass Effect was even trying to appeal to your standards.

[AlanC9]

As I said it can be fun at times to pick at blind(like sarcastic option) but at "key moment" or in just simple conversation with your companion or some NPC that requires you to pick option....I don't see much fun at me picking at random thinking "Wow yeah this is what I mean" then when I pick my protagonist says/does something way opposite of what I wanted in here and I either have to keep playing despite of what just happened and what I just did or hit reload and try to find correct response.

Nah, this now sounds even more less fun and way more annoying then reading and knowing your response upfront now does it.

You seem to have had a near-total reading comprehension fail there, unless I just expressed myself terribly. For me, it isn't random. I don't know the precise content of the spoken line, but I know it well enough to know which one of the available lines is the best available one for my PC to speak at the time,and that's the only decision I can make there. More information on the line is counterproductive once I have enough to make the decision accurately.

[Shechinah]

I'm in favor of less or no paraphrasing as I've had more than my fair share of times where I had to reload and replay because the dialogue option I selected was wrong for my character in some way. Depending on when I'd last been able to save, this sometimes meant I had to replay entire battles.

 

Otherwise, I'd like a compromise in which would the player can save and load during dialogue like in Fallout 4.

 

Speaking of saves, can we please, please be allowed to name our saves because shifting through saves can be so tedious and bothersome.    

[AlanC9]

Implying that Mass Effect was even trying to appeal to your standards.

If he was implying anything, it's that Bio intended to make a game he wouldn't like, and succeeded.