If they are going with more ancient elven stuff in the next game, I really hope we get to find out and see a couple of them. Maybe one escapes before Solas can complete his plan. Well, something has to throw a wrench in his plan anyway, and I imagine some of them will be pretty ticked off.
I don't remember that Solas said that all of them were trapped
There's a theory that Sera might be Andruil or have her soul ala Flemythal
I meant the Varterrals,they are the creation of the Evanuris and they are still operating in Thedas thus mean that the Evanuris who created them is not sealed and is still in the world.
There's a theory that Sera might be Andruil or have her soul ala Flemythal
I hope that's not the case. It would really devalue her character if that was so. Same goes with the "Solas was Shartan" and "Mythal was Andraste" theories. Not everything awe-inspiring should be ascribed to an ancient god-like beings.
They may very have had elements of cruelty and arrogance. Despite this they never destroyed the world. That was the arrogant Solas who knows best.Solas makes some specific claims about their greed, but it's not just Solas' testimony though. In both the elven ruins and the fade library we see glimpses of what type of beings they were, and they were arrogant and cruel. Elgar'nan build a statue of himself in a day using thousands of slaves. The Qunari conclude from their time in the fade library that their vices were far beyond that of present day Thedosian nobility. Even what we learn in the Temple of Mythal paints them as people who apparently reveled in murder and destruction.
They may very have had elements of cruelty and arrogance. Despite this they never destroyed the world. That was the arrogant Solas who knows best.
Yet these arrogant beings created many amazing marvels together, and many elves flourished within the society they created. there seems to be a whole lot of judgement without proper perspective and ignoring looking critically at current thedas. Also mythal clearly been shown to be a multi layered character. She worked along side them for millennia before whatever falling out led to her murder. I just wish them to be shown as multi layered characters, not mhuuaaa I'm the evil elven God, can't you tell from my evil laugh. Now chase me round the room and kill me.
So you believe all the information we saw Trespasser was faked? And things like Andruil hunting Elves were simply made up?
It would not be the first time the information presented to us by the writers in game was misleading (examples: Chantry stuff, any elvhen lore pre-DA:I, deliberately translating Fen'Harel as the god of betrayal until revealing he was the god of rebellion, saying the Tevinter destroyed Arlathan but then revealing they did not, etc.) Yes, it would be a bit much to claim Solas is lying or that descriptions of the problems of the Evanuris are wrong, but it could be different than we think.
At the end of Tresspasser Solas reveals that the laws of physics pre-Veil were completely different, basically. That it was a different world, and we don't know what the Evanuris had planned that would have destroyed the world or why they killed Mythal. Solas is the only god thing to have destroyed the world once and wants to do so again. Their morality is based in different concepts, and I would not be surprised if things revealed about the Titans, the origin of the Taint, the plans of the Evanuris, the particulars of Mythal's death and the physics of a pre-Veil world (it is hinted that spirits are connected to the life span of the Elvhen, and that a living ancient elf could be made into a spirit/demon (the Forbidden Ones)), that they are not so simple as Solas simplified things in Tresspasser or how the limited Codexes we got in DAI led us to believe. Definitely they aren't Good but they probably aren't Evil, but then again, Solas thinks what they would do is worse than what he did, and he basically committed genocide the likes of which is hard to imagine.
Nothing the next game reveals about them can make them not evil, unless everything we just learnt about them was a lie. We saw plenty of proof in Trespasser about what they were like.
Maybe there will be something worse than them revealed, but that doesn't make them not evil.
I meant the Varterrals,they are the creation of the Evanuris and they are still operating in Thedas thus mean that the Evanuris who created them is not sealed and is still in the world.
No, it doesn't mean they are not sealed. All the Elvhen Gods except Fen'Harel and Mythal are sealed away.
Just because the Gods got sealed away, doesn't mean the Varterrals would suddenly die or something. And that's assuming they were even truly created by the Gods and that it's not just another myth the Dalish got wrong.
That's why I hope we get to see one in game, I can imagine they would have an argument like that, and it could make interesting drama... Maybe paralleling the current situation in Tevinter, if we are going there like everyone expects.
To be fair, Sylaise, June and Dirthamen (though he seems associated with Falon'Din TOO much) seems to "okay"
Then again, Dirthamen could be a spy master/ assassin, June could have made weapons of mass destruction and Sylaise being a political mastermind.
I think them killing Mythal sent Solas into a rage, they might not have destroyed the world, but without Mythal's intervention things could have gone from bad to worst
Nothing the next game reveals about them can make them not evil, unless everything we just learnt about them was a lie. We saw plenty of proof in Trespasser about what they were like.
Maybe there will be something worse than them revealed, but that doesn't make them not evil.
No, it doesn't mean they are not sealed. All the Elvhen Gods except Fen'Harel and Mythal are sealed away.
Just because the Gods got sealed away, doesn't mean the Varterrals would suddenly die or something. And that's assuming they were even truly created by the Gods and that it's not just another myth the Dalish got wrong.
Solas never said that all the Evanuris were sealed away.
Incorrect. I don't feel like going through the Trespasser videos, but the wiki has the information from the game:
After petrifying the last of the Qunari invasion force, Solas temporarily calms the Anchor to allow them time to talk. He reveals to the Inquisitor how he fought back against the Evanuris after they betrayed and murdered Mythal, in his words the one elven god who served as a voice of reason, who cared for and loved her subjects. As punishment he erected the Veil and banished the Evanuris to the Beyond,
They may very have had elements of cruelty and arrogance. Despite this they never destroyed the world. That was the arrogant Solas who knows best.
Yet these arrogant beings created many amazing marvels together, and many elves flourished within the society they created. there seems to be a whole lot of judgement without proper perspective and ignoring looking critically at current thedas. Also mythal clearly been shown to be a multi layered character. She worked along side them for millennia before whatever falling out led to her murder. I just wish them to be shown as multi layered characters, not mhuuaaa I'm the evil elven God, can't you tell from my evil laugh. Now chase me round the room and kill me.
Being multi-layered doesn't mean they aren't evil. They were the cause for a great deal of evil and suffering to feed to their own egos back in the the time they ruled. It's not like there was an armed slave rebellion for no reason. Mythal herself isn't exactly a noble character either, she was also a capricious and brutal god-queen, she was just less greedy and more pragmatic than the rest.
And Solas does claim that they almost destroyed the world. I'm not a defender of Solas but he still seems to imply that there the catastrophe he caused was still less than the catastrophe he prevented by imprisoning them.
More importantly though, beings as megalomaniacal and violent as the Evanuris don't seem like they would take kindly to the world in it's present form. If people like Abelas and Solas look down on current Thedosians, then The Evanuris would be far worse. The fact that they ruled an advanced society is basically irrelevant to the issue of the threat they would pose to the people of present day Thedas.
They are unlikely to be in a good mood when they are released, and given all the destructive behavior they are prone to, they would almost certainly want to tear down this world, either out of spite or to recreate their old one.
Their powers were not based on belief. They were just very powerful mages in an age where everyone had magic.
For them to be released, you would have to tear down the Veil, and they would likely be as powerful as they were, albeit with fewer followers.
Not necessarily. Cole specifically said "Worship makes you more." As extremely powerful mages in a world that was perfectly merged with the Fade, it would not surprise me if belief in the Evanuris granted them abilities beyond what they otherwise could attain.
Being multi-layered doesn't mean they aren't evil. They were the cause for a great deal of evil and suffering to feed to their own egos back in the the time they ruled. It's not like there was an armed slave rebellion for no reason. Mythal herself isn't exactly a noble character either, she was also a capricious and brutal god-queen, she was just less greedy and more pragmatic than the rest.
And Solas does claim that they almost destroyed the world. I'm not a defender of Solas but he still seems to imply that there the catastrophe he caused was still less than the catastrophe he prevented by imprisoning them.
More importantly though, beings as megalomaniacal and violent as the Evanuris don't seem like they would take kindly to the world in it's present form. If people like Abelas and Solas look down on current Thedosians, then The Evanuris would be far worse. The fact that they ruled an advanced society is basically irrelevant to the issue of the threat they would pose to the people of present day Thedas.
They are unlikely to be in a good mood when they are released, and given all the destructive behavior they are prone to, they would almost certainly want to tear down this world, either out of spite or to recreate their old one.
I don't think it was a question of being widespread or how "accepting" people were, the Evanuris were simply too powerful. Solas didn't just say he destroyed the Elvhenan just to end the reign of the Evanuris, he said their greed was going to destroy the world. To me that implied there might have been a specific danger he was trying to avoid.
Egomaniacs who style themselves as gods and who have a reputation for cruelty, greed, and violence aren't going to appreciate losing control over the empire they used to rule. Andruil apparently hunted people for sport. Falon'din desired worshipers so much he slaughtered countless people. Elgar'nan has a reputation for indiscriminate destruction. In fact, Falon'din and Elgar'nan almost started a war over a personal disagreement. The lives of the people they ruled mean very little to them. So the lives of mortal people that the ancient Elvhen would look down own would mean even less. They won't see modern Thedosians as allies against the Dread Wolf, that's just not the picture of them we are given.
Seems to me people accepted the order of things just as most theodosian societies accept the order of things within the kingdoms despite the injustices. Life went on and the failure of Solas rebellion shows that their actions weren't considered so outrageous to drive majority to his cause and the benefits of the empire they created were valued.I don't think it was a question of being widespread or how "accepting" people were, the Evanuris were simply too powerful. Solas didn't just say he destroyed the Elvhenan just to end the reign of the Evanuris, he said their greed was going to destroy the world. To me that implied there might have been a specific danger he was trying to avoid.
Egomaniacs who style themselves as gods and who have a reputation for cruelty, greed, and violence aren't going to appreciate losing control over the empire they used to rule. Andruil apparently hunted people for sport. Falon'din desired worshipers so much he slaughtered countless people. Elgar'nan has a reputation for indiscriminate destruction. In fact, Falon'din and Elgar'nan almost started a war over a personal disagreement. The lives of the people they ruled mean very little to them. So the lives of mortal people that the ancient Elvhen would look down own would mean even less. They won't see modern Thedosians as allies against the Dread Wolf, that's just not the picture of them we are given.
Nothing the next game reveals about them can make them not evil, unless everything we just learnt about them was a lie. We saw plenty of proof in Trespasser about what they were like.
Maybe there will be something worse than them revealed, but that doesn't make them not evil.
I don't think they are not potentially horrible things, but what I am getting at is if death means something different to the Ancient Elvhen (as hinted by Mythal, Solas, Falon'Din's domain/stuggles for followers (if he ruled over the "dead" maybe he "killed" (disembodied) Elvhen), and the Forbidden Ones being Elvhen turned Spirit, the ability of Uthenera let's say masters to transcend the dependency on nourishment) than what is killing? Killing someone is bad because they never come back, but what if "killing" to the Elvhen was more complicated? I don't know, I don't even know if that is the case, but I'm just throwing that out there. How life and death operates in Thedas currently is very much dependent on the Veil existing, but if that were gone, do we really know how those things worked?
What complexity do you imagine they have? We see from our glimpses into history they are decadent megalomaniacs with delusions of godhood. They sound like they would each be like Corypheus x 10.
Even if they weren't all one dimensional, they certainly seem the type who would want to lay waste to or enslave the entire world after what happened to them.
nothingi've seen would make me use the word evil. Then I don't fall into the notion that tevinter is evil either.
Given Solas power, the enemy of my enemy is my ally hopefully might be the case.
Slavery isn't evil now? Ooooooook.... 
Varterral attack everything that is not an ancient elf so they were made by ancient elves.They are immortal and cannot be killed so is more probable that one of the Evanuris made them one like Ghilan'nain.Solas never said that all the Evanuris were sealed away.
The fact that all the Evanuris are sealed away is one of the few things agreed upon by both the lore and the characters. Also, where are you getting this proof that they attack anything that isn't an ancient Elf? The only ancient Elves we've seen were in the temple of Mythal. Everything else is just a Dalish myth.
I don't think they are not potentially horrible things, but what I am getting at is if death means something different to the Ancient Elvhen (as hinted by Mythal, Solas, Falon'Din's domain/stuggles for followers (if he ruled over the "dead" maybe he "killed" (disembodied) Elvhen), and the Forbidden Ones being Elvhen turned Spirit, the ability of Uthenera let's say masters to transcend the dependency on nourishment) than what is killing? Killing someone is bad because they never come back, but what if "killing" to the Elvhen was more complicated? I don't know, I don't even know if that is the case, but I'm just throwing that out there. How life and death operates in Thedas currently is very much dependent on the Veil existing, but if that were gone, do we really know how those things worked?
Doesn't matter what "death" means. Inflicting pain and slavery and forcing your will on another is evil.
We've seen the highly biased interpretation of the dread wolf. He's the one who destroyed the world.
In what way decadent, they led a highly advanced civilisation.
As far as god hood, it seems a perfectly reasonable that extremely powerful immortal beings might come to be viewed as gods and those beings would see the advantages such a status could convey. Do kings not usually claim divine blessing.
I definitely don't want them treated as corypheus times 10. I didn't like how corypheus was mishandled as it was.
I like this. It would be ironic if we actually got to have the option of siding with the Evanuris against Solas, the Qunari and the Magisters of Tevinter.
And then they end up demolishing what little is left of the Andrastian faith, the Qun and the fake worship of dragon gods and restore Arlathan to what it was, allowing magic to flow like crazy through the world and submitting all races to their dominion. Including the Dalish, whom they would despise for their inferiority in comparison to the original elves of old.
It would make the Dalish fanboys go crazy for sure.
"Tinfoil hat on"
Actually i think elven gods are already in our world in form of archdemons.
- According to Faladin (masked empire) there were no other races than elves in the times of old Elven Empire.
- It is said that there were 9 elven gods, Mythal and FenHarel included. (3 other "gods" from the abyss not included)
- 7 have been locked behind the veil in "heavens". (Mythal was dead, FenHarel have tricked the gods into imprisonment)
- Old Gods of Tevinter started to whisper from the Golden City to human Dreamers they also teached them to use magic. (world of thedas page 12)
- Later would be Tevinter summoned 7 Old Gods from the fade in the form of dragons. (Dragons were the form only Elven gods could posses, even by Evanuris law according to codex)
- Tevinter Imperium was established and its lords and citizens started to worship to 7 Old Gods that ruled the land. Tevinter abandoned faith in the Maker(that existed before the old gods). That was later described as the Original Sin.
During this period, the Old Gods communicated directly with their worshipers, issuing explicit commands and instructions.
- At some point after previous events(hundreds of years) the Maker seals the Old Gods deep into earth. (it is unknown who was the Maker, the information about this period of history is scarce)
- Later Old Gods started to whisper to Tevinter Priests again from the deeps, in the end 7 Magisters breached the Veil and entered the Golden city. It's unclear what happen next but Magisters become affected by the Taint and have been cast down back. It's is said that Magister have been betrayed by the old gods.
- Old Gods are turning into Archdemons if Taint affects them. More importantly they are free from their prison. (they are going mad though)
- Mythal (Flemeth) collects the souls of Old Gods. (for how long shes doing it we don't know)
- Fen'Harel (and presumably Mythal) wants to restore elven civilization.
"Tinfoil hat off"
TL DR Old gods are Elven gods.
Slavery isn't evil now? Ooooooook....
Slavery is a term that is thrown around with very little meaning in the circumstances imo.
The difference between a slave and a servant seems paper thin in Thedas. They live and die at the whim of their lords.
Varania in DA2 resents freedom over the much less hard life as a slave.
Abelas is a slave because he wears Mythal's markings but he certainly wouldn't be the image of what springs to mind to most people in regards a slave(i.e some one like Orana). If everyone wears the brand of their god it renders the notion of slavery with far less power imo. We have no knowledge what levels of freedom different strata's of elven society had but it certainly seems over the top to go everyone was a slave working at the grindstone.
Retour en haut