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[Hellion Rex]

Because a person tells a lie, that means everything they say is a lie? That's patently ridiculous.

The reason people "believe" certain things about Solas is because the game is not that subtle. There are obvious "let's look into the mind-set of Solas" moments where he has private conversations with us, with our squad, with the denizens of Thedas. Bioware wants us to see that Solas may have looked at the world one way when he awoke, but through exposure to us and the Inquisition, saw that things weren't all that simple.

In the end, Solas totally has you within his power. He can kill you and get rid of the possibility of you ever messing with his plans. He doesn't. He's conflicted for the reasons revealed throughout the game.

Hardly. It was a hell of a lot more than "just a lie" as you would dub it. While he might not outright lie and instead utilizes omissions and half-truths, it marks him as an unreliable source of information, one that we should be extremely sceptical of.
And in regards to Solas more or less changing his mind about our world once he joins the Inquisition, that doesn't change what he intends to unleash, all to reclaim a romantic glory that has long since faded away. Leaving my Inquisitor alive was the worst mistake he could have made, past friendship or not.

[Xerrai]

@abyss108:  Yes, and not being lied to outright is good enough for you to believe in someone. 

 

Once again... you are free to, but I decline. 

 

Until someone corroborates ANYTHING Solas says... I will not take what he says as anything more than manipulation.

Not really contributing anything to that but I do know an interesting tidbit that (imo) should be considered when dealing with Solas. namely that in order to strengthen his character, he was deliberately made by the creators to deceive less. In earlier development he outright lied a whole lot more in addition to outright manipulation.

(Here is the tweet)

 

The Solas we have now is much more truthful by comparison, and is was apparently described as one of the "Liars who don't lie".

[Almostfaceman]

Hardly. It was a hell of a lot more than "just a lie" as you would dub it. While he might not outright lie and instead utilizes omissions and half-truths, it marks him as an unreliable source of information, one that we should be extremely sceptical of.
And in regards to Solas more or less changing his mind about our world once he joins the Inquisition, that doesn't change what he intends to unleash, all to reclaim a romantic glory that has long since faded away. Leaving my Inquisitor alive was the worst mistake he could have made, past friendship or not.

 

I didn't dub it that. Please review my post. I posted the reality about lies and people lying. Just because a person lies, doesn't mean they lie about everything.

 

The game goes out of its way to verify a lot of what he says. Historical artifacts. The way Flemeth treats him. Private conversations you "overhear". Like I said. The game just isn't that subtle and devious. 

[Gervaise]

As Solas explains to an Inquisitor he actively dislikes, his reasons for sparing you have to do with his notion of wanting the people of Thedas, who don't deserve what he is going to do to them, have a peaceful few years before he pulls the plug on them.   He wants and anticipates you keeping the Inquisition going because without it there will be greater instability; once again he doesn't foresee the actions of an Inquisitor who opts to surrender their power rather than try and cling on to it.    He is conflicted only in as much as he doesn't like having a bad conscience or being seen as a monster, so he finds a way to make himself feel better about what he is doing.   If he was really conflicted about his aims, he wouldn't be so unhelpful about explaining why the world has to die and would allow the Inquisitor to work with him to come up with a different solution to his problem of saving his people.   He might also be a bit clearer about what his plans are for the Evanuris because even if tearing down the Veil is not going to result in instant destruction for the current world, he admits it is going to free seven (or may be more if you count the Forgotten Ones as well) very angry and vengeful mage gods.   Given the success of his previous plans the vagueness of his claim to have a means of dealing with them is probably what worries me most of all.

[Abyss108]

As Solas explains to an Inquisitor he actively dislikes, his reasons for sparing you have to do with his notion of wanting the people of Thedas, who don't deserve what he is going to do to them, have a peaceful few years before he pulls the plug on them.   He wants and anticipates you keeping the Inquisition going because without it there will be greater instability; once again he doesn't foresee the actions of an Inquisitor who opts to surrender their power rather than try and cling on to it.    He is conflicted only in as much as he doesn't like having a bad conscience or being seen as a monster, so he finds a way to make himself feel better about what he is doing.   If he was really conflicted about his aims, he wouldn't be so unhelpful about explaining why the world has to die and would allow the Inquisitor to work with him to come up with a different solution to his problem of saving his people.   He might also be a bit clearer about what his plans are for the Evanuris because even if tearing down the Veil is not going to result in instant destruction for the current world, he admits it is going to free seven (or may be more if you count the Forgotten Ones as well) very angry and vengeful mage gods.   Given the success of his previous plans the vagueness of his claim to have a means of dealing with them is probably what worries me most of all.

 

 

If he wanted you to keep the Inquisition he wouldn't go out of his way to point out how corrupt it is and how he can use it against you. 

 

I also wouldn't really say he's conflicted exactly. He doesn't like what he has to do (and it's not simply "not wanting to be seen as a monster" unless you dismiss his characterisation for the entire game and also what the writers themselves have said about him), but he's pretty resolute in doing it.

 

He doesn't tell you his plans, because he can see only 2 options - save his people or save your people. There is no third option. If it comes down to it, most people would choose to save their own people over a bunch of strangers. He's not going to help someone destroy his people.

[Reznore57]

 

He doesn't tell you his plans, because he can see only 2 options - save his people or save your people. There is no third option. If it comes down to it, most people would choose to save their own people over a bunch of strangers. He's not going to help someone destroy his people.

 

Thing is his people are already destroyed.Maybe there's a handful left but that's it .

Of course with magic he can again change the course of the world , and bring the old nature of the elves back.

But is that a good thing?

Having one person who can decide the fate of the whole world and how things should be?

 

I'll give him a pass the first time with the veil because he implies he had no choice , I can understand changing the nature of the world vs the end of the world as a whole.

But this is not the case anymore.

This is purely a I prefered how things used to work , so I'm going to change things back even if it means killing people because I can't let go.

[Abyss108]

Thing is his people are already destroyed.Maybe there's a handful left but that's it .

Of course with magic he can again change the course of the world , and bring the old nature of the elves back.

But is that a good thing?

Having one person who can decide the fate of the whole world and how things should be?

 

I'll give him a pass the first time with the veil because he implies he had no choice , I can understand changing the nature of the world vs the end of the world as a whole.

But this is not the case anymore.

This is purely a I prefered how things used to work , so I'm going to change things back even if it means killing people because I can't let go.

 

I don't think they are destroyed though. Cole mentions people sleeping behind mirrors and says Solas wants to save those people. Solas certainly doesn't want to save the Evanuris, so they have to be ancient elves. 

[In Exile]

I don't think they are destroyed though. Cole mentions people sleeping behind mirrors and says Solas wants to save those people. Solas certainly doesn't want to save the Evanuris, so they have to be ancient elves. 

 

Do you have the quote? From what I recall, I think you're combining two separate parts of his speech. The people who Solas wants to save that Cole is talking about were the ancient elves, and that part of the banter is about Solas's guilt that he basically obliterated the ancient elves from existence while trying to save them. Cole then digs deeper and gets to the people trapped behind the mirror, but that part sounds ominous, and isn't related to the ancient elves per se. But as I say I don't recall the literal quote.

[Medhia_Nox]

@In Exile:  Even if it is the ancient elves... they're the aristocracy, because the codex says only the leaders entered torpor (forget the name for it in game).  

 

So great... Solas wants a bunch of ancient elven aristocrats freed - gross. 

[Abyss108]

Do you have the quote? From what I recall, I think you're combining two separate parts of his speech. The people who Solas wants to save that Cole is talking about were the ancient elves, and that part of the banter is about Solas's guilt that he basically obliterated the ancient elves from existence while trying to save them. Cole then digs deeper and gets to the people trapped behind the mirror, but that part sounds ominous, and isn't related to the ancient elves per se. But as I say I don't recall the literal quote.

 

 

You are correct, that part of the line only refers to "waking" them. I still think it refers to ancient Elves that Solas wants to save for a few reasons.

 

- Waking the Evanuris is a side effect of what Solas will do, not what he is actually aiming to achieve. "and to wake them" makes it sound like Cole is talking about what Solas' direct goal.

 

-The Evanuris are not "hiding", they are locked up. I think the ancient Elves were hiding from the Veil being raised - you can hear the thoughts of the ones that didn't/couldn't in the library as they die. I think of large number did manage to survive in trapped pockets on the other side of the Veil, like some survived on this side and became mortal Elves.

 

- Solas planning to destroy the world to save no one just simply doesn't sense unless you ignore his entire character for the entire game. He repeatedly refers to saving his people, which doesn't make sense until they are still alive. 

 

 

 

• Cole: (If the Inquisitor had the vallaslin removed) Ar lasa mala revas. You are so beautiful. But then you turned away. Why?
• Solas: I had no choice.
• Cole: She is bare-faced, embarrassed, and she doesn't know. She thinks it's because of her.
• Solas: You cannot heal this, Cole. Please, let it go.
• Inquisitor: Perhaps Cole can get a better answer from you than I did.
• Cole: He hurts, an old pain from before, when everything sang the same.
• Cole: You're real, and it means everyone could be real. It changes everything, but it can't.
• Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?
• Solas: I apologize, Cole. That is not a pain you can heal.

[Abyss108]

@In Exile:  Even if it is the ancient elves... they're the aristocracy, because the codex says only the leaders entered torpor (forget the name for it in game).  

 

So great... Solas wants a bunch of ancient elven aristocrats freed - gross. 

 

Are you really still believing codexes? 

 

I also don't recall anything saying only the Nobles could in the first place.

[Heimdall]

It isn't really clear at this point who he wants to save exactly.  He doesn't see modern elves as real elves, but he's built a network of elven agents, would they become proper ageless mage elves once the Veil dropped?

 

I think freeing the Evanuris would be a necessary consequence of destroying the Veil, but he apparently has plans to deal with them somehow, that might be what those lines refer to.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Heimdall:  Solas and his "plans". 

[Jaulen]

The best liars are those that weave that little bit of provable truth into what they say.

Then you let down your  guard and believe what they say.

 

I have no reason to believe Solas wholesale, other than believe what he says when he says he's going to take down the Veil and the world will burn.

 

Also, he 'wants' you to prove to him that he's wrong that the world as it is now is worth saving (to me a sympathetic lie, get you to 'trust' him even a litte).

But then, when has ANYTHING Solas has done based on his own decision making gone RIGHT?

That last scene in Trespasser I was l practically yelling at the screen, you've always been wrong!

 

He's a megalomaniac.

 

Depending on my Quizzy, I have or do not have sympathy and want to save Solas.

But if I him and I were real? His head would be unceremoniously separated from his body post-haste.