13 réponses à ce sujet

[Ruegar14]

I was playing with the combo yesterday and having resistances negated by barrier really made the extra guard seem meh when it melts so fast because of it. Idk but my real question is I can't have barrier cast on me by my mages but I can still build full barrier in a few hits. How can I tell how much barrier I have at full barrier. Didn't see a place for it on my Attributes page .

[PapaCharlie9]

I was playing with the combo yesterday and having resistances negated by barrier really made the extra guard seem meh when it melts so fast because of it. Idk but my real question is I can't have barrier cast on me by my mages but I can still build full barrier in a few hits. How can I tell how much barrier I have at full barrier. Didn't see a place for it on my Attributes page .

This is a bit out-of-date, since it was circa Patch 5, but the formula should still be true.
 
Barrier

• Can only be applied by certain Mage abilities and passives.
• The initial strength of barriers applied by party members is based on the caster's max_barrier value:
• max_barrier = (base_damage + 10) * 48 - 300
  • This value is defined as 100% barrier strength for all abilities that apply barrier. So an ability that applies 100% barrier will summon a barrier with initial strength equal to the caster's max_barrier value, while an ability that applies 50% barrier will summon a barrier with initial strength equal to half the caster's max_barrier value.
  • This value can be modified by the Strength of Spirits passive.

From:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

[Ruegar14]

Thx, I've been looking for that for a while now lol.

[Ruegar14]

OK so got home from work and unless I'm doing wrong lol it says I should have like somewhere near 100K barrier . The (base_dmg+10) seems right if u have a staff but I'm using a sulevin atm and I know for damn sure I dont have 100K barrier. Anyone got an idea where I can find info for trespasser items ?

[JiaJM98]

OK so got home from work and unless I'm doing wrong lol it says I should have like somewhere near 100K barrier . The (base_dmg+10) seems right if u have a staff but I'm using a sulevin atm and I know for damn sure I dont have 100K barrier. Anyone got an idea where I can find info for trespasser items ?

lol barrier calculation formula was meant for staves because initially only mage can generate barrier. Barrier formula lets the game calculate your "barrier strength", which can also be modified by passives like Strength of Spirits and Barrier ring (it's confirmed that this ring works for fade shield passive too, as well as the ability Barrier, although I don't think it affects Barrier amulet for the reason stated below).

 

Barrier amulet does not use barrier formula in the same way, instead it generates a fixed amount of barrier based on if it's a enhanced or superb barrier amulet. (Hence barrier ring shouldn't work on this occasion.) Then this fixed amount of barrier is subject to other attributes like maximum barrier of your character. If I remember correctly, sigil of bronto will reduce 100% maximum barrier so it makes sense why your barrier would melt so easily because you have a very finite amount of barrier you can attain under the influence of that sigil (if any at all, given it says -100% maximum barrier). 

 

You should be able to see an attribute called maximum barrier on your character, but I don't know if it would pick up on the effect of your sigil.

[Ruegar14]

That all makes sense and I'm not arguing but I don't think the amulet plays by the sigils rules cuz if it did I wouldn't receive barrier in the first place . Unless it's one of those weird calculations where -100% won't leave me with zero . I was under the impression it melts so dam fast cuz it doesn't do mitigation like for a 200dmg hit from a hakkonite w/ 10  debuff stacks does 5k unfiltered dmg. Where as having guard  but no barrier instead does 200dmg mitigated by melee resistance then armor  * 10 stacks is like 10-40dmg. Either way it's doesn't really matter for 98% of the game the amulet is op. U answered my question about it being a fixed amount based on tier which makes sense 

[PapaCharlie9]

If you are playing with the Walk Softly Trial enabled, you also need to account for promoted enemies with Barrier Breaker. I'm not sure how that debuff works, but you lose barrier very quickly when you get hit by an enemy with that trait.

 

Also, another fun fact is that if you have barrier active, it may negate your armor value.

 

http://forum.bioware...4#entry18795459

[JiaJM98]

That all makes sense and I'm not arguing but I don't think the amulet plays by the sigils rules cuz if it did I wouldn't receive barrier in the first place .

Aha, receiving barrier and keeping barrier are two separate matter 

 

My understanding of this is, the -100% maximum barrier might not make it zero (or maybe it is, I don't know. Never tried it at least) . And the barrier bar displayed over your health bar represents a % of your maximum barrier upkeep. So if you generate more barrier than your maximum barrier, you don't get to keep it. Barrier decay is also as a % of your maximum barrier.

 

So if you can only keep, say, 2000 barrier then display wise it would look the same as it would if your upkeep is 10000. But in reality the barrier is much much weaker, even though it would decay at the same rate as it normally would but when under attack, extremely fragile.

[Ruegar14]

So I just read this very detailed guide from Chris Lee . This is from his barrier segment . Best I could find.

His full guide here

 http://www.gamefaqs....tion/faqs/70902

 

"However, there are some complicated interactions betwen Barrier (the ability),

barrier (the effect), and various abilities that interact your barrier.  First,

it's important to note that Barrier will *always* generate barrier equal to

at least your maximum health; even if your character has no weapon equipped,

they will still generate enough to cover your heatlh.

 

Second, Barriers from multiple mages overwrite each other; they are not

additive.  That means that if one mage generates a Barrier with strength of

3,500 and another does for 1,500 if the latter casts Barrier on someone who

just received a barrier from the former, their current barrier will immediately

drop to 1,500.

 

Third, every character has their own notion of what their maximum barrier is.

This is mostly irrelevant for warriors/rogues, but mages track their maximum

barrier independently of each other.  This is important since mages have

abilities that can generate a % of your maximum barrier, and it appears that

these are all relative to *that* specific mage's Barrier ability.

 

Fourth, Fade Shield (the Knight-Enchanter ability that generates barrier "equal"

to 30% of damage dealt) has a *very* weird interaction with barrier.  It does

not actually give you barrier equal to 30% of damage dealt.  Instead, what it

appears to do is take 30% of the damage you dealt, divide it by 1000, and then

treat that as a coefficient of your maximum barrier that it then restores to 

you.  This "maximum barrier" *ignores* whether or not you have Strength of

Spirits, so having this ability will not increase how much barrier Fade Shield

generates.

    As an example, let's say you dealt 600 damage, you do not have Strength of

Spirits, and you have a maximum barrier of 2,500:

        a) Take 30% of damage done; 600 * 30% = 180

        Take the result and divide it by 1000; 180 / 1000 = .180

        c) Use as a coefficient of maximum barrier; .180 * 2500 = 450

        d) You regenerate 450 barrier, or 18% of your barrier bar.

If you *do* have Strength of Spirits, then the equations are mostly unchanged,

except that the share of your barrier bar that is restored is reduced to 12%

[PapaCharlie9]

Why they didn't calculate barrier just the same way as guard plus a decay factor, I'll never understand.

[JiaJM98]

 This "maximum barrier" *ignores* whether or not you have Strength of

Spirits, so having this ability will not increase how much barrier Fade Shield

generates.

I'm *almost* certain Strength of spirit and Enhanced barrier ring works with fade shield. I think this might be one of those previously broken aspects that got patched up. I recall Luke (one of the devs) specifically said that Barrier rings do work and since Strength of spirit works in almost exactly the same way (except it's 50% instead of 30%) I would assume it works also.

 

I've completed over 250 matches in MP as Arcane Warrior (MP version of Knight Enchanter) and I would say you do notice the difference in your barrier's durability (not decay rate, but instead its durability when you take hits) before and after picking up Strength of Spirit. Same with barrier ring.

[JoseRayber]

I'm *almost* certain Strength of spirit and Enhanced barrier ring works with fade shield. I think this might be one of those previously broken aspects that got patched up. I recall Luke (one of the devs) specifically said that Barrier rings do work and since Strength of spirit works in almost exactly the same way (except it's 50% instead of 30%) I would assume it works also.

 

I've completed over 250 matches in MP as Arcane Warrior (MP version of Knight Enchanter) and I would say you do notice the difference in your barrier's durability (not decay rate, but instead its durability when you take hits) before and after picking up Strength of Spirit. Same with barrier ring.

Sorry if it may sound like a late response. It seems that Strength of Spirits passive still does not contribute to Barrier amount recovered from Fade Shield in SP. Considering the fact that Barrier decays at a fixed rate, it actually has a negative impact on survival, just like what it did to Arcane Warriors in MP before patch 5.

 

A quick 'hypothesis' test:

Level 27 Knight-Enchanter, whose Barrier maximum=5,670 with Strength of Spirits, or 3,780 without Strength of Spirits

Spirit Blade hits an enemy with 2,481 damage, fulfilling the Barrier bar approximately to 50% level. 

Thus estimated Barrier amount recovery = 5,670 * 50% = 2,835

If Strength of Spirits contributes to calculation in Fade Shield, the amount will be 2,481 * (5,670/1,000) * 30% = 4,220

If Strength of Spirits does not, the amount will be 2,481 * (3,780/1,000) * 30% = 2,813

It seems like the latter one depicts the real scenario.

 

In case of Amulet of Barrier, suppose Bioware did not play any dirty tricks on it, the Barrier maximum is always associated with weapon base damage. Yes, it will be at a considerable amount (9,000 to 10,000) if equipped on two-handed warriors or archer rogues, but the return rate is much lower than Fade Shield. The enhanced version's conversion rate is approximately 5% (haven't got the Superb one in Trespasser so I've got no idea how "impressive" it might be) and lasts for the same duration as normal Barrier (though you can improve that by bringing Vivienne all along for her Knight-Protector passive), which means that characters have to struggle hard to maintain it, especially in early stage of the campaign. Enemies with "Barrier Breaker" trait and/or those insane debuffs in Jaws of Hakkon also could become a pain in the ***. 

[Ruegar14]

Here I just call it cheat mode amulet now. One dragon rage or changing bull gets me damn near full barrier per hit and that's with enhanced one from fiona. Oh btw, did I mention DR is non stop spammable with the haste belt, I forgot the real name.(one that makes u super fast when under 50%) lol. If ever an item should be removed this one is it.

[PapaCharlie9]

Here I just call it cheat mode amulet now. One dragon rage or changing bull gets me damn near full barrier per hit and that's with enhanced one from fiona. Oh btw, did I mention DR is non stop spammable with the haste belt, I forgot the real name.(one that makes u super fast when under 50%) lol. If ever an item should be removed this one is it.

Belt of Urgency. It was made for Reaver.