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[MisterJB]

Additionally, while the mages were seen with more sympathy than how they'd been in the past, that sympathy likely took a bad hit before and during the time of the Inquisition because a part of the damage and deaths were caused by mages.

 

Not to mention Corypheus given who he is and what he has done and did do. 
 

I mean, it's not like living, breathing, speaking proof that the Chantry had been right all along regarding the Bligths; in the eyes of the people, at least, don't start quoting hints of how the Evanuris created the Blights; was just trying to destroy the world.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Well, I can't disagree with world of Thedas... but it supports my opinion.  Mages will have to start getting real jobs that won't allow them to spend all their days learning magic.  That keeps everyone else safe from them too.  

 

Though.. of course, making tapestries and stained glass... while I'm sure they are excellent professions - are leisure professions that crop up when a society is self-sufficient.

 

Who buys all these tapestries and stained glass?  Not common people.  

 

And up until now... Circles have had plenty of Tranquil.  So THAT'S probably how these things get made.  But, not anymore. 

[MisterJB]

Apparently that didn't stop the grand clerics from unanimously supporting an openly pro-mage and pro-non human candidate. 

 

Hey, look at how easily I turn this against you.

 

The Orlesian and Ferelden governments wanted the Inquisition either controlled or disbanded ergo, that must mean Orlesians and Fereldens had anti-Inquisition viewpoints, seeing the Herald as dangerous rather than the Maker's Chosen.

 

Or, you know, the far more rational possibility that elites, be they secular or religious, will do what they do for their own, often political, reasons and this does not represent the people who won't change centuries old mentalities overnight just because the Inquisitor says so.
 

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Well, I can't disagree with world of Thedas... but it supports my opinion.  Mages will have to start getting real jobs that won't allow them to spend all their days learning magic.  That keeps everyone else safe from them too.  

 

Though.. of course, making tapestries and stained glass... while I'm sure they are excellent professions - are leisure professions that crop up when a society is self-sufficient.

 

Who buys all these tapestries and stained glass?  Not common people.  

 

And up until now... Circles have had plenty of Tranquil.  So THAT'S probably how these things get made.  But, not anymore. 

Mostly, I just want to change things up and see the "mages are pathetic and useless" and "mages are dangerous and subversive" sides of the anti-mage faction duke it out.

[MisterJB]

We're not anti-mage.

[Xilizhra]

We're not anti-mage.

Magist, then?

[MisterJB]

Anti-magist?

 

Seriously tough, don't just invent words on the spot. This isn't tumblr.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  I think you confuse mage "culture" with a mage "the person". 

 

I play mages almost exclusively throughout my gaming history... my first DA:O character?  Mage.  My first DA:2 character?  Mage.  My first DA:I?  I think you get the picture.

 

I'm not anti-mage.

 

If anything... I'm anti-libertarian.  

[Gervaise]

I am not anti-mage; I generally play mages but have frequently asked about the practicalities for mages with no Circles.

Some mages are very self sufficient and able to look after themselves; some are pretty hopeless.   The thing is most of them do not have transferrable skills.   Much of the wealth of the Circles was produced by the tranquil and the Venatori have wiped out most of those.   The children of nobles will simply go back home, since most of them were allowed to keep touch with their families.   Some may not be on good terms but the majority probably are.    It is the mages who originated from the lower classes who are going to find it toughest out in the real world.   Most of them will have lost contact with their families, if they can even remember them.   The mages could set up clinics, like Anders did, for the ordinary people but they won't get rich that way and their day to day living is going to be very basic.   So I imagine there are going to be those who aren't prepared to slum it and will sell their services to the highest bidder.   That's where most of the trouble is going to arise, plus nobles in Orlais using their mage children to get ahead in the Game.

To give an example, look at those mages in the Exalted Plains who summoned Solas' friend.   They were worried about bandits, couldn't protect themselves in the conventional way, so their solution was "let's summon a spirit/demon to deal with them".   That's what the Circles were trying to prevent in the past and why Templars were sent along to guard mages when they went on expeditions out in a hostile world.

[MisterJB]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

[Colonelkillabee]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

Qunari dead, Tevinter overthrown, Orlesians massacred...

 

Dalish remove that stick from their asses or at least do something about their predicament other than whine about humans. Lol.

 

And the chantry realizes that they can't keep mages locked up in prisons forever and expect no conflict, meanwhile, mages realize the importance of a circle and a way to keep tabs on their abilities.

 

But, there's no such thing as an ideal world.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

 

1) Conscription of Templars or Mages in DAI. Complete removal of Templars, who will be replaced by Seekers because they are not addicted to Lyrium and cannot be controlled by Blood Magic.

 

2) The Qun defeated and its people liberated.

 

3) The Dalish Elves and City Elves working together and using diplomacy instead of aggression towards the Humans to establish a new Elven kingdom.

 

4) Mages being supervised by trained mages, Seekers and qualified commoners.

 

5) Chantry restoring Canticle of Shartan, being open towards all races and sexes, allow Chantry members to marry.

 

6) Tevinter getting rid of slavery and Elven discrimination. Other Theodosian nations getting rid of Elven discrimination.

 

7) Acceptance of Orzammar's Casteless into their society or a mass exodus of Casteless Dwarves to the surface.

 

8) More investigation by Theodosian scholars into ancient Thedas - Got to discover all that lore.

 

9) Thedas entering into a Technosorcery Industrial Revolution. I say technosorcery because Thedas has magic and you would want to incorporate some magic such as enchanting to power industrial machines.

 

However, there is no such thing as an ideal world.

[Medhia_Nox]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

 

- Templars owned by the state as special forces.  The new Constabulary would include spirit mages who specialize in neutralizing mages.

 

- The Circles owned by the state, with each government deciding how to deal with their mages. 

 

- Seekers as a Chantry force to deal with both mages and Templars when necessary.

 

Ideal "state" law:

 

- Intensive training in resisting demons AND exorcism. 

 

- Yearly Harrowings afford a mage freedom. 

 

- Mages are still taken at early ages and family are allowed to visit, but not remain with, the mage (I imagine Circle Towns popping up around Circles that aren't in cities)

 

- A mage can choose between Tranquility or death if they are sentenced for the most severe crimes.

 

- Mages spell capability is registered with the state.  Casting unregistered spells is subject to fines, then imprisonment, then death/tranquility.

 

- Combat magic training except under state supervision is illegal. Casting combat magic is considered premeditated action and subject to the appropriate punishment. 

 

- All mages, as state wards (and then public servants), must serve the state in whatever job is best suited to their skillset.

 

- Mages, after ten years of service as a full fledged mage, are given the chance to be released of their obligation to the state and are free to pursue their own interests.

 

- Mages who pursue their own interests must pay yearly fees to continue training at the state funded Circles.

 

- All forbidden magics have programs of study devoted to them to ascertain their threat, determine their uses, and develop them for introduction as suitable Circle schools if deemed functional.

 

- Phylacteries will be kept for all apprentices.  Afterward, a phylactery will only be kept on file for those mages who have committed ANY crime determined by the state. 

 

- Any mage who accepts Tranquility will have their family awarded the lifetime stipend that would have otherwise been afforded the mage for service.  The state recognizes that some mages who cannot perform any sort of real magic, but are susceptible to demons, may opt for Tranquility instead of death so said stipend can be taken advantage of.

 

- Any mage incapable of working magic properly and does not opt for Tranquility or death but is otherwise incapable of resisting demons will remain have a perennial apprenticeship, but be afforded no state stipend and will remain a ward of the state.  All restrictions and freedoms awarded apprentices will continue to be awarded to such an apprentice.

 

- Any apprentice caught practicing forbidden magics will forfeit their chance for Harrowing and mage status. 

 

- Anyone possessing the perennial apprentice status attempting forbidden magics will be sentenced to either death or Tranquility. 

[Xilizhra]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

Honestly, the Leliana-as-Divine ending is more or less it, at least for mages. Super-ideally, the College of Enchanters would be an independent organization like the Chantry and would have its own lyrium monopoly. I'm not sure whether it'd be inherently unethical to give more soldiers templar powers, but if it wouldn't be, we could have them guarding the Circles--though law enforcement should include mages as well as nonmages, to reinforce community policing.

Also, all Tranquil are cured. Those who wish to stay Tranquil may have the rite re-performed on them afterward.

 

For elves... I'm undecided.

[Colonelkillabee]

"Yearly harrowings"

 

That would be incredibly dangerous. Honestly I always thought the harrowing thing was a stupid idea. If you want to avoid having mages be involved with demons, don't invite them to talk with demons to see if they'll turn out alright or not, lol. Just because they survived once doesn't mean they will the next time, and just doing that once makes it more likely to happen again. Let alone having them be tested against demons yearly.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Colonelkillabee:  Well, honestly - with how pointless Bioware has made demon possession - it would mostly just be a chore. 

 

But... it couldn't possibly be any more dangerous than what the Avvar shamans do daily.

[Colonelkillabee]

What do you mean by demon possession is pointless now?

[Master Warder Z_]

JOH :/

[Colonelkillabee]

JOH :/

Refresh my memory, it's been months since I've even played that dlc.

[SgtSteel91]

Refresh my memory, it's been months since I've even played that dlc.

 

I think what they imply is that the Avvar perform a ritual that can separate a Spirit Guide from the Mage they bonded to.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think what they imply is that the Avvar perform ritual that can separate a Spirit Guide from the Mage they bonded to.

Ah, I see. I was actually gonna ask earlier what someone was talking about when they said "exorcism".

[Hellion Rex]

You know, I'm curious.
Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

To be honest, I don't know what my perfect world would entail. I'm not very strong at thinking long term when it comes to this kind of world building, particularly the consequences. So in that regard, I don't think I can add anything really fruitful to the discussion. That said, I'd offer that I understand both sides of the "mage-Templar"/Liberty-security dilemma, as I have been in favor of both the "pro-mage" and pro-Templar/Circle sides. At the end of the day, though, what I would like to see is more Templars working alongside mages, perhaps at the behest of the state government. I'd like to see a more open approach to studying more remote and advanced magic within Southern Thedas, under supervision of course. Also, I'd really like to see mages work alongside the Seeker Order, even if not Seekers in name.

[SgtSteel91]

You know, I'm curious.

Pro-Templar this, pro-mage that, we spend so much time arguing the same points over and over for no reason other than because we can't afford to lose face after so many years but, end of the day, what do you support? What does it mean to be for either of these factions?

 

C'mon, get on that pulpit and tell us all what do you want, how to get it. What is your ideal world?

 

I'm getting close to my 'ideal' world after Inquisition.

• Leliana is Divine and she's making changes to it that I think are needed like opening the clergy to all races and genders, making reparations to the Elves (restoring Shartan's verse in the Chanty), and rededicating the Chantry to charity
• The Circles are dissolved and Mages are free. They start their own institution to train new Mages and using Magic to better the world on their own terms.
• The Inquisition transitions from an army to a peacekeeping organization. With the Exalted Council still going after Trespasser the Inquisition is now like the Blue Helmets of the UN. They also work for Leliana and protect her and her reforms.

There are still things I'd like to happen like:

• Mages and Templars, as equals, being a part of a city/village guard to handle Magical threats. I can imagine this already happened with the Inquisition, Mages and Templars working together and especially if you train new Templars to work with Mages, but they can't be everywhere in Southern Thedas at all times.
• Different practices of Magic, be it the Seers of Rivaini, Dalish Keepers, or Avvar Shamans be respected and freely practiced without Chantry persecution.
• The Harrowing stopped and more restrictions on the use of the Rite of Tranquility on Mages
• The Qunari demilitarized or they stop trying to force the Qun on the rest of Thedas. Also the treatement of Qunari Mages stopped.
• A new homeland for the Elves but this time they lose the racism against Humans and isolationism that came with the Dales.
• Tevinter redeemed, like Dorian wants (and an end to slavery)
• The White and Black Chantry reach an accord
• A lot more rights for the Casteless (or get rid of the 'Casteless" Caste) and the Dwarven Empire not on the brink of collapse from the Darkspawn 

[Master Warder Z_]

I think what they imply is that the Avvar perform a ritual that can separate a Spirit Guide from the Mage they bonded to.

It's stupid crap like that is ruining the series.

[Silcron]

It's stupid crap like that is ruining the series.

 

Don't forget all the really, really important lore we discover and then keep it a secret because why would we ever want to change the status quo?

 

I still can't think of a reason why we would keep quiet about the Titan, specially given that was the whole point of the expedition. I'm sure Orzmmar won't send anyone to check our story or even seek their bodies, and for once, sadly, I'm not being sarcastic.