I'm sure Vivienne took very good care of the Tranquil under her care. And not leave to fend for themselves, or to the not-so-tender mercies of the Templars or Venatori like Fiona did.
Well, that's your headcanon, nothing more. Vivienne herself says she thought the tranquil would be safe...in a warzone.
Yes, she thought the rebel mages would, at the very least, look out for the most helpless of their number.
How silly... 
As Cassandra points out, the cure still needs to be studied in-depth. An emotionally unstable mage is incredibly dangerous, even if they can no longer be possessed.
Citation needed on Pharamond ever demonstrating an actual danger.
Citation needed on Pharamond ever demonstrating an actual danger.
Plus, he was only cured for a short while. How do we know he wouldn't have gotten better eventually?
Also, I'm sure knowing that he was going to become tranquil again after being cured surely couldn't have helped him.
Yes, she thought the rebel mages would, at the very least, look out for the most helpless of their number.
How silly...
You do realize that Vivienne is the same woman who is willing to start a mage civil war despite outright admitting that the College is a good place for mages to train merely because she has no rank in the College?
Citation needed on Pharamond ever demonstrating an actual danger.
Given he was murdered shortly after being brought to White Spire (by a rebel mage at that) there wasn't exactly a lot of opportunity to study him
And in any case, he'd only be a single data point. You don't want to try a medication that's only been tested once.
I'm actually reminded of the wycht in Pillars of Eternity...sure seemed like a cure at the time...
Given he was murdered shortly after being brought to White Spire (by a rebel mage at that) there wasn't exactly a lot of opportunity to study him
And in any case, he'd only be a single data point. You don't want to try a medication that's only been tested once.
I'm actually reminded of the wycht in Pillars of Eternity...sure seemed like a cure at the time...
So Cassandra's supposition is just that: supposition. And if you want to only cure one person as an actual test and then watch, fine, but that's not what Vivienne did.
Yes, she thought the rebel mages would, at the very least, look out for the most helpless of their number.
How silly...
Yeah but on the other hand she keeps saying the rebel mages are morons who are just going to get themselves and other mages killed.
If she showed some respect before for the mage rebellion , it would be believable she'd think tranquils would be safe with them.
But she thinks the whole thing is doomed.
Anyway Vivienne and what she would and wouldn't be able to do during the rebellion is ...an headache.
The game says she is supposed to be powerful , but everything points out at her being powerless during the whole thing.
Her leader of the Loyalist mages is a smokescreen , we never see her do anything with that position .
And mages who didn't want to get involved in the war still mostly followed Fiona .
Plus, he was only cured for a short while. How do we know he wouldn't have gotten better eventually?
Also, I'm sure knowing that he was going to become tranquil again after being cured surely couldn't have helped him.
Again, because he was murdered.
Heck we don't even know if he could be made Tranquil again!
You do realize that Vivienne is the same woman who is willing to start a mage civil war despite outright admitting that the College is a good place for mages to train merely because she has no rank in the College?
Hyperbolic and beside the point.
Interestingly, the Tranquil in Dragon Age: Origins were suppose to have the same sunburst mark as the Tranquil in the following Dragon Age games. The developers were unable to put it in due to reasons of resource;
"That should fall under the category of "things that were intended to be in Origins but which we never received the resources for." If you prefer, perhaps the Fereldan Circle brands their mages somewhere other than on their forehead (no, not there, dirty minds)." - David Gaider
Not much relevance, I've simply been reading up on Tranquils and found it something to mention.
So Cassandra's supposition is just that: supposition. And if you want to only cure one person as an actual test and then watch, fine, but that's not what Vivienne did.
Assuming that's what you believe Vivienne did (or didn't) do, then perhaps Montsimmard was more judicious in it's use of the Rite of Tranquility.
Yeah but on the other hand she keeps saying the rebel mages are morons who are just going to get themselves and other mages killed.
If she showed some respect before for the mage rebellion , it would be believable she'd think tranquils would be safe with them.
But she thinks the whole thing is doomed.
Anyway Vivienne and what she would and wouldn't be able to do during the rebellion is ...an headache.
The game says she is supposed to be powerful , but everything points out at her being powerless during the whole thing.
Her leader of the Loyalist mages is a smokescreen , we never see her do anything with that position .
And mages who didn't want to get involved in the war still mostly followed Fiona .
They were morons who were getting themselves and other mages killed. But is it really a stretch to think the mages would at least try to protect their most helpless?
Vivienne was a First Enchanter in an Orlesian Circle, and the rebels were in Ferelden, ostensibly under the protection of Ferelden's monarch, and a Conclave was being called by the Divine (whom she respected) to try and bring the fighting to an end.
What's she supposed to do as leader of the Loyalist mages? Lay siege to Redcliffe herself? She kept the Templars from storming her Circle, kept the rebels from murdering her mages for not joining them, and kept the looters at bay. Not much else you can reasonably expect.
The mages who didn't want to get involved found themselves on the run or hiding in caves from mages and Templars alike.
Assuming that's what you believe Vivienne did (or didn't) do, then perhaps Montsimmard was more judicious in it's use of the Rite of Tranquility.
It had no Tranquil at all? In any case, I doubt Vivienne would have done it at all, seeing as how she approves of the Rite being used elsewhere.
Here is a transcript of Clemence the Alchemist's dialogue about Redcliffe. The reason the middle quote is alone is because the lines before is him explaining how Tranquils are made which is the same as has been said before.
Clemence: "Magister Alexius does not approve of those without magic like you or me. You may not wish to stay long. Many villagers have already left to escape his ire"
Inquisitor (Warrior): "What does the Magister have against you?"
Clemence: "He does not like to be reminded of what mages can become. He says all Tranquil must leave Redcliffe but who would take us in?"
Clemence: "Those now in Redcliffe prefer not to see us."
Inquisitor: "How long has Tevinter been here?"
Clemence: "Magister Alexius arrived at nightfall, two days after we retreated from the Temple of Sacred Ashes. He forced anyone without magic out of the castle save those he required to serve him even the Arl was sent away."
It had no Tranquil at all? In any case, I doubt Vivienne would have done it at all, seeing as how she approves of the Rite being used elsewhere.
Or the Rite was only used when absolutely necessary, and not as a form of punishment:
http://forum.bioware...quil/?p=5632333
It's against the rules to perform the Rite of Tranquility without both significant provocation (provocation in this case meaning the mage in question either cannot control their magic or has shown no signs of a willingness to do so) AND the agreement of the First Enchanter (who is present as a sort of ombudsman on behalf of the mages). The system will fall out of balance anywhere where the First Enchanter is either weak or ignored.
Vivienne is neither weak nor do I think she tolerates being ignored 
And remember the Rite of Tranquility is supposed to be an alternative to simply killing mages who can't or won't control their power. Like what the Avvar do.
Or the Rite was only used when absolutely necessary, and not as a form of punishment:
Oh hey, that's where the bit about the Tranquil and the sunburst mark I mentioned is from as well.
Or the Rite was only used when absolutely necessary, and not as a form of punishment:
http://forum.bioware...quil/?p=5632333
It's against the rules to perform the Rite of Tranquility without both significant provocation (provocation in this case meaning the mage in question either cannot control their magic or has shown no signs of a willingness to do so) AND the agreement of the First Enchanter (who is present as a sort of ombudsman on behalf of the mages). The system will fall out of balance anywhere where the First Enchanter is either weak or ignored.
Vivienne is neither weak nor do I think she tolerates being ignored
And remember the Rite of Tranquility is supposed to be an alternative to simply killing mages who can't or won't control their power. Like what the Avvar do.
Did you forget how you can use the rite as punishment in Inquisition?
Also, did you forget Meredith making someone tranquil merely for passing love letters or the other mentions of people being made tranquil to become sex slaves.
Vivienne was a First Enchanter in an Orlesian Circle, and the rebels were in Ferelden, ostensibly under the protection of Ferelden's monarch, and a Conclave was being called by the Divine (whom she respected) to try and bring the fighting to an end.
What's she supposed to do as leader of the Loyalist mages? Lay siege to Redcliffe herself? She kept the Templars from storming her Circle, kept the rebels from murdering her mages for not joining them, and kept the looters at bay. Not much else you can reasonably expect.
The mages who didn't want to get involved found themselves on the run or hiding in caves from mages and Templars alike.
Well as the Leader of the Loyalist mages I expect her , just like I expect of Fiona , to try and protect her followers.
I assume all circles didn't burn to the ground , she should have been in good graces with the Chantry , loyalist templars ,and orlesians nobility...so a safe circle and spreading words , there is a safe haven for mages who wants no part in the war wouldn't have been so far fetched.
But as far as I know there is no such thing .
Or the Rite was only used when absolutely necessary
Never?
And remember the Rite of Tranquility is supposed to be an alternative to simply killing mages who can't or won't control their power. Like what the Avvar do.
Because the justice system is barbaric, I know.
Also, did you forget Meredith making someone tranquil merely for passing love letters or the other mentions of people being made tranquil to become sex slaves.
First Enchanter Orsino was ignored by Meredith which is listed in Iakus' quote as one of the reasons why the system can fall out of balance.
Because the justice system is barbaric, I know.
I'm curious, what do you present as the alternative course to the scenario in which a person cannot or will not control their magic and the only other course that seems avaliable is death including in a scenario wherein the person wants to live?
I'm curious, what do you present as the alternative course to the scenario in which a person cannot or will not control their magic and the only other course that seems avaliable is death including in a scenario wherein the person wants to live?
I'd need to know the specifics of what "cannot/will not control their magic" actually means.
I'm curious, what do you present as the alternative course to the scenario in which a person cannot or will not control their magic and the only other course that seems avaliable is death including in a scenario wherein the person wants to live?
Tranquility should only be used if the person voluntarily agrees to it.
Plus, did you forget how the lore pretty much makes it clear that the rite stopped being a way to not kill dangerous mages and more of a strict punishment and method of oppressing mages
Tranquility should only be used if the person voluntarily agrees to it.
I would add a caveat to that: they have to be cured after a certain period of time and then asked again whether they want it. Making an informed decision.
Oh, so now we're just arguing about when to make Tranquil.
The point is... there were likely dozens, if not hundreds of Tranquil abandoned and left to rot when the mages thought only of themselves.
So glad the rebellion failed.
Oh, so now we're just arguing about when to make Tranquil.
The point is... there were likely dozens, if not hundreds of Tranquil abandoned and left to rot when the mages thought only of themselves.
So glad the rebellion failed.
I'm curious as to what one of your OCs you mention from time to time would think of my Inquisitor having allied with the mages and seen the College through to completion.
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