993 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

Nightscrawl, How else would Fiona be in VR and not know it except by magic?  Some times you just gotta use good old common sense and  put two and two together to understand what the writer did without mentioning that fact. BW writers are very good at doing that.

 

Alexius  wasn't above using magic to get what he wanted and recall he didn't leave Fiona to talk to the Inquisitor when he left the meeting to go to the castle even though he didn't need her  to help give his son his powders. Why is that?  To many questions from the Inquisitor could tip what happen and Alexius didn't want that..  

 

There's no great secrete to what Alexius did to lure the Inquisition to Redcliffe. He used time and mind control magic on Fiona.

 

Of course as we know Fiona is a Elf which means she is evil and stupid saith the Elf haters.

[TobiTobsen]

Nightscrawl, How else would Fiona be in VR and not know it except by magic?  Some times you just gotta use good old common sense and  put two and two together to understand what the writer did without mentioning that fact. BW writers are very good at doing that.

 

Yeah... like understanding that BioWare was trying to pull a good ol' time travel storyline. Fiona doesn't remember being in Val Royeaux because, in her timeline, she never was. We also learn ingame that the time travel phenomena is limited to the castle and village, that's the reason why your party remebers meeting her while nobody in Redcliffe does.

That she's feeling strange if you ask her is simply a little remnant of the timeline that Alexius changed in Redcliffe. He doesn't need to mind control her to make her forget, if she never experienced the stuff in the first place.

[Xilizhra]

I really think there should have been more repercussions for allying with the mages. We're basically giving Fereldan the middle finger if we ally with them, since we don't remove their leader nor do we place any watch over these time bombs who now feel like they can do whatever they want with no consequences. If nothing else, have the approval meter at the WP be set lower. War table missions are not enough to show the effects of big decisions.

Actually, Ferelden is grateful because it gets rid of the mages more quickly either way. It's only Teagan who gets annoyed, and as we see from Trespasser, he's become a giant douche anyway. Finally, any mention of "time bombs" is strictly hypothetical, since they never cause any problems for the Inquisition thereafter.

[Tidus]

vbibbi, I will never  ally with the Templars for what they did at VR and the way they couldn't wait to kill all mages even those that had no part in the upraising and remained at the Circles.

 

The Templars  are the real cause of the mage rebellion since they have raped, tortured and killed mages without just cause simply because they could while the Chantry looked the other way while chanting the Chant of light in their self-righteous glory .

[sniper_arrow]

There's no great secrete to what Alexius did to lure the Inquisition to Redcliffe. He used time and mind control magic on Fiona.

 

Of course as we know Fiona is a Elf which means she is evil and stupid saith the Elf haters.

 

Show us proof that Alexius used mind control magic on Fiona, and I'll make sure not to make fun of your dementia. 

 

Also, the reason most hated Fiona not because she was an elf or a mage, but because she made a stupid decision to ally with the Venatori by selling her people as slaves.

[Steelcan]

vbibbi, I will never  ally with the Templars for what they did at VR and the way they couldn't wait to kill all mages even those that had no part in the upraising and remained at the Circles.
 
The Templars  are the real cause of the mage rebellion since they have raped, tortured and killed mages without just cause simply because they could while the Chantry looked the other way while chanting the Chant of light in their self-righteous glory .

I'm just going to assume you didn't actually play the game and thus missed out on all the Templars protecting mages in their Circles we see in War Table Missions, or those who rebelled against the unjust rule if their leaders.

[Xilizhra]

I'm just going to assume you didn't actually play the game and thus missed out on all the Templars protecting mages in their Circles we see in War Table Missions, or those who rebelled against the unjust rule if their leaders.

That's the nice and unifying thing about Inquisition: we get to see everyone at their best. You get your heroic templars, we get our emancipated mages with a friendly Divine in a scenario in which no one burns the world down or conquers it.

[vbibbi]

Actually, Ferelden is grateful because it gets rid of the mages more quickly either way. It's only Teagan who gets annoyed, and as we see from Trespasser, he's become a giant douche anyway. Finally, any mention of "time bombs" is strictly hypothetical, since they never cause any problems for the Inquisition thereafter.

I'm sure Ferelden is happy to have the mages leave, but it's still political egg on the face of the ruler(s) since a rogue organization squatting in contested land enters Fereldan and invades a castle without prior approval. Yes, the ruler(s) grant permission at the end of the quest, but the Inquisition didn't know that would happen when we went into Redcliffe castle, that's a lucky coincidence.

 

I don't think time bombs is an unfair description, since if we conscript the mages, some of them later flee Skyhold and try to rejoin other rebel cells. And they damage Inquisition property on their way out. That also doesn't improve the Inquisition's image if it looks like it can't control the troops it conscripted. Granted, it's a cosmetic consequence and doesn't actually have real effect, but that's the same with the majority of decisions in the game.

 

vbibbi, I will never  ally with the Templars for what they did at VR and the way they couldn't wait to kill all mages even those that had no part in the upraising and remained at the Circles.

 

The Templars  are the real cause of the mage rebellion since they have raped, tortured and killed mages without just cause simply because they could while the Chantry looked the other way while chanting the Chant of light in their self-righteous glory .

I agree that the templars are one of the main causes of the rebellion and in no way support them as an institution. But in DAI, I felt that their quest made more sense than the mages' and like Barris more than Fiona. I know that Bioware intended for the mage path to be the canon one, as it flows better in the story, but I can't ignore all of the poor writing involved in it and all of the mental gymnastics required for it to make sense to me.

[Xilizhra]

I'm sure Ferelden is happy to have the mages leave, but it's still political egg on the face of the ruler(s) since a rogue organization squatting in contested land enters Fereldan and invades a castle without prior approval. Yes, the ruler(s) grant permission at the end of the quest, but the Inquisition didn't know that would happen when we went into Redcliffe castle, that's a lucky coincidence.

Well, the Inquisition has the goal of closing the Breach above everything else: if Alistair wants to stop me from leaving, he's welcome to try.

 

 

I don't think time bombs is an unfair description, since if we conscript the mages, some of them later flee Skyhold and try to rejoin other rebel cells. And they damage Inquisition property on their way out. That also doesn't improve the Inquisition's image if it looks like it can't control the troops it conscripted. Granted, it's a cosmetic consequence and doesn't actually have real effect, but that's the same with the majority of decisions in the game.

They do not, however, cause any problems if allied.

 

 

I agree that the templars are one of the main causes of the rebellion and in no way support them as an institution. But in DAI, I felt that their quest made more sense than the mages' and like Barris more than Fiona. I know that Bioware intended for the mage path to be the canon one, as it flows better in the story, but I can't ignore all of the poor writing involved in it and all of the mental gymnastics required for it to make sense to me.

How is the writing particularly poor in In Hushed Whispers?

[Dabrikishaw]

I remember someone claiming in a different topic, Patrick Weekes said that Fiona was under mind control when the mage sellout happened. I'd like a link to that.

[Iakus]

I'm just going to assume you didn't actually play the game and thus missed out on all the Templars protecting mages in their Circles we see in War Table Missions, or those who rebelled against the unjust rule if their leaders.

Not to mention Ser Barris' War Table missions exemplify what a true Templar should be

[Iakus]

I remember someone claiming in a different topic, Patrick Weekes said that Fiona was under mind control went the mage sellout happened. I'd like a link to that.

So would I

[Master Warder Z_]

So would I

 

It gives me flashes of that magical note that was cited repeatedly but never displayed in the Hissing Wastes

 

I am sure I am not the only one who remembers that load of bull.

[Xilizhra]

Not to mention Ser Barris' War Table missions exemplify what a true Templar should be

Working for the Circle and not the Chantry?

[Iakus]

Working for the Circle and not the Chantry?

 

Protecting people

 

From hostile mages

 

From demons

 

From terrified mobs who think you are an abomination

[Xilizhra]

Protecting people

 

From hostile mages

 

From demons

 

From terrified mobs who think you are an abomination

So basically what the Inquisition does?

[Tidus]

Steelcan.. You ask for proof.. Does that mean you never read Asunder?

 

And yes,I have played the game many times.

 

Templars are nothing more then class one thugs and murderers hiding behind the cloak of Templar.

[Iakus]

So basically what the Inquisition does?

Yes.

 

And what the Templars should be doing as well.

 

As doing otherwise has proven to cause Grand Enchanters to sell those in their charge into slavery.

[Iakus]

Steelcan.. You ask for proof.. Does that mean you never read Asunder?

 

And yes,I have played the game many times.

 

Templars are nothing more then class one thugs and murderers hiding behind the cloak of Templar.

Demonstrably untrue.

 

Just as mages aren't all maleficarum just looking fro an excuse to go abomination

[Xilizhra]

Yes.

 

And what the Templars should be doing as well.

 

As doing otherwise has proven to cause Grand Enchanters to sell those in their charge into slavery.

So, given that the Inquisition protects more mages, including clear innocents, in In Hushed Whispers, it's demonstrably better demonstrating templar ideals on the mage path than the templar path.

[vbibbi]

Well, the Inquisition has the goal of closing the Breach above everything else: if Alistair wants to stop me from leaving, he's welcome to try.

 

 

They do not, however, cause any problems if allied.

 

 

How is the writing particularly poor in In Hushed Whispers?

 

My view of IHW is similar to most of the topics raised on the forums about its writing. I won't rehash it, just say that I didn't like the time travel elements and everything involving Fiona (as stated in this thread).

 

So, given that the Inquisition protects more mages, including clear innocents, in In Hushed Whispers, it's demonstrably better demonstrating templar ideals on the mage path than the templar path.

It's hard to say, since we don't receive numbers of how many mages are at Redcliffe. We only see 5-6, though Fiona mentions children and noncombatants. We do know that the templar war table missions save three cities from riots, mages, and demons. The mage war table missions track down escaped and rebel mage cells who are murdering civilians for their cause.

 

 

I will say that the Inquisition, if played benevolently, is the example that the modern templar and seeker order should aspire to. Just as the original Inquisition became the seekers and templars when it was absorbed by the Chantry, so too does our Inquisition remind the modern world of the duties templars have to protect mages and mundanes.

[Master Warder Z_]

of the duties templars have to protect mages and mundanes.

 

Problem is, mages are stupid.

 

They don't understand that to protect them from a world that their ilk ruined once a upon a time, they need to be separated from general society, they need to learn their craft in protection but also isolation. I mean really if nothing else DAI demonstrates that people as a whole aren't that friendly to mages, and aren't all that fond of them kicking off that war that ravaged a few countries, but yeah.

 

Templars exist to protect mages, to ward against the dangers that mages present to themselves and others, and to protect against the dangers posed to mages by others. Still bad as things are, they could be worse I guess, I mean after the dismantling of the mage rebellion and dealing with its leftovers, there is hope for continued magical education and protection in Thedas. Just happens to cause a few more problems that the old Circle prevented, notably them being the only option and being state and internationally sponsored...but those are issues that fall outside of the discussion.

[Xilizhra]

The mage war table missions track down escaped and rebel mage cells who are murdering civilians for their cause.

Actually, no. That only happens if you enslave the mages. If you ally with them, there's a war table mission about rescuing mages from a besieged Circle, one about finding lost mages and bringing them to safety, and then a couple involving Teagan.

[Medhia_Nox]

She probably got butchered along with the Venatori, a uppity mage like her no doubt bought into their crap and she was promptly killed by the Inquisition.

 

Its the most likely scenario, I mean her rebellion fell apart, like anyone with sense knew it would and the war that those stupid mages wanted so badly was killing them all, so no doubt she'd jump ship to avoid that doom, only leap head first into a cult that promptly sent her to get killed off at Haven or wherever.

 

Seeing Adrian as a slave in Minrathous would be... beyond glorious.  

 

Purchasing her would be even better. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Seeing Adrian as a slave in Minrathous would be... beyond glorious.  

 

Purchasing her would be even better. 

 

I doubt she will ever be important enough to implement.