267 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

But that's headcanon.  You headcanoned that lack of knowledge.

 

If you want your character to know things, stop headcanoning that she doesn't.

 

My whole point is that I didn't headcanon the lack of knowledge, but instead had it forced on me. I actually wanted my character to know Dalish lore because she was a Dalish Elf but the game didn't let me because every time it came up, I wasn't allowed to do anything but ask somebody else to explain it to me. Usually Solas.

 

This is totally fair.  Different players react differently to different sorts of choices.

 

This particular choice is one they probably should have allowed.  However, that would require that the dialogue with all that exposition get recorded 5 times instead of just once, and that's expensive.  I'd interpret that as an argument against voicing the protagonist.

 

I can agree about the voiced protagonist thing, though I think in this case they really should have gone with it because Elven lore became incredibly relevant to the plot towards the end.

 

It just felt out of place that an Elven Inquisitor didn't know anything about Elven lore. Unfortunately I don't think BioWare will ever consider going back to a silent protagonist.

 

As much as I like to rag on KotoR for having god awful combat that attempted to merge real time with turn based in a way that was clunky as hell, they offered a great amount of choice in how your character got to play out the story. I wish they'd go back to doing that kind of a story with the modern combat they've created.

[Sylvius the Mad]

My whole point is that I didn't headcanon the lack of knowledge, but instead had it forced on me. I actually wanted my character to know Dalish lore because she was a Dalish Elf but the game didn't let me because every time it came up, I wasn't allowed to do anything but ask somebody else to explain it to me. Usually Solas.

My point is that you did, because the game doesn't establish that your character doesn't know that information.  Your character just isn't the one to voice it.

 

As I explained above, there are any number of possible reasons why you might have asked Solas to explain it even though you already knew it.  if you decide that your character didn't know, and that's why she asked, then you're headcanoning that, but the game absolutely does not force that on you.

 

The absence of evidence is not evidence of the absence.

It just felt out of place that an Elven Inquisitor didn't know anything about Elven lore.

Which is why I wonder why you decided that would be the case.

Unfortunately I don't think BioWare will ever consider going back to a silent protagonist.

As Fallout 4 demonstrates, they don't have to.  They just need to become mod-friendly again.

As much as I like to rag on KotoR for having god awful combat that attempted to merge real time with turn based in a way that was clunky as hell, they offered a great amount of choice in how your character got to play out the story. I wish they'd go back to doing that kind of a story with the modern combat they've created.

I completely agree with you about KotOR.  I don't see how they managed to take NWN's combat and make it so much worse, but the roleplaying freedom that game offered was very good.

[Cyonan]

My point is that you did, because the game doesn't establish that your character doesn't know that information.  Your character just isn't the one to voice it.

 

As I explained above, there are any number of possible reasons why you might have asked Solas to explain it even though you already knew it.  if you decide that your character didn't know, and that's why she asked, then you're headcanoning that, but the game absolutely does not force that on you.

 

The absence of evidence is not evidence of the absence.

 

 So my options are limited to:

 

1. Get Solas to explain it and invent some reason why my character doesn't just explain it all herself.

2. Completely ignore the topic and not talk about it.

 

Even in the case of being able to invent the reason I'm still highly limited in my ability to RP because I only have 2 real courses of action, one of which I consider a terrible choice because it prevents you as a player from knowing potentially critical lore knowledge and if I want my character to be knowledgeable in those areas then I need to be as well so I can more effectively roleplay as that character.

 

Which leaves me with asking Solas and coming up with a reason, which is incredibly limiting.

[KallenX]

I still don't understand how comparing WoW's history and design has nothing to do with elements Bioware could look at and adopt into their own style.  Having a massive Andromeda that has tons of planets, new species (with new lore,new stories,new cultures (homes, languages,totally new experiences for players to explore).. being able to expand a known working universe that lets a player fully role play and still experience stories built into it that a player can choose to investigate or totally ignore and just hang at the Extra Terrestrial Strip club/Book Club every time they log in as per their character..

 

This idea is simply a next step, outside of the box, that would give a player the option for action based combat, or a completely diplomatic/social engineering focus.  That is kind of what I imagined when I heard there was going to be some sort of Star Trek MMO team based game some 10-15 yrs ago..  Of course i saw things the tech could not deliver. Today however, these are ideas within grasp.  I would be VERY happy if Bioware built a huge open, expandable Andromeda with new content that i could attach and continue to explore while playing with other role-players.

 

Sylvius, you ever play MUCKS?  That may be well beyond most people's experience.  I think players are too spoiled, and don't know what they're missing when it comes to using their imagination instead of expecting all the entertainment to be spoon fed to them.  RPGs pretty much have to include role playing .. or how is it an RPG?? 

 

I absolutely hate games on rails. Uncharted/TLOU can suck it.  I'd rather Watch Paint Dry than deal with annoying QTEs.  I wonder really what the deeper understanding many of those running huge game companies today carry.  If any group can deliver something fresh while building an environment for open play/ i'd imagine that would be Bioware (without EA).

[Andrew Lucas]

I don't playbthese games to experience someone else's story. If he main selling point of a game is the story it tells, it would need to do other things really well before I'd like it (because veing told a story gets in the way of my enjoyment).
Ideally, I'd like two players who've just played tge same game to have had different experiences, and hopefully even give different answers when asked what the main plot was.
And DAI didn't have any mandatory action combat. I certainly didn't play any action combat in DAI. I used the tac cam (with KBM, so I had a proper pause).

"Someone's else story."

Sighs. Pity.

[AlanC9]

So my options are limited to:
 
1. Get Solas to explain it and invent some reason why my character doesn't just explain it all herself.
2. Completely ignore the topic and not talk about it.

(snip)
 
Which leaves me with asking Solas and coming up with a reason, which is incredibly limiting.

Wait a second. You still have option 2, don't you?

[Cyonan]

Wait a second. You still have option 2, don't you?

 

Technically yeah, but I consider it a stupid option =P

 

Mostly because I as a player can't get that information otherwise, even though my character should know it. If it were a Pen and Paper game, I could just ask the GM for it(if it wasn't something in official resources) but I don't have that luxury in a video game.

 

I suppose one could use the wiki, but that tends to be full of spoilers if looking up specific information talked about during a quest.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So my options are limited to:

1. Get Solas to explain it and invent some reason why my character doesn't just explain it all herself.

That's basically how all dialogue selection works. You can't have your character say whatever you want; you're limited by the options provided. Your job as player is to work out what mental state that is consistent with your previous decisions and also allows you to select one of those options.

That's every dialogue hub event. Why is it suddenly a problem now?

Yes, sometimes we would wish for different options. I still think we should have been allowed to kill Meredith during the chaos at the end of Act II in DA2. But that mental calculus is something we have to do all the time.

[KallenX]

I think the role play discussion should be in a different thread

[Cyonan]

That's basically how all dialogue selection works. You can't have your character say whatever you want; you're limited by the options provided. Your job as player is to work out what mental state that is consistent with your previous decisions and also allows you to select one of those options.

That's every dialogue hub event. Why is it suddenly a problem now?

Yes, sometimes we would wish for different options. I still think we should have been allowed to kill Meredith during the chaos at the end of Act II in DA2. But that mental calculus is something we have to do all the time.

 

That's most dialogue hub events in DA:I, yes. That is exactly what I am saying the problem with the game's ability to let you RP is. That frequent single option is very limiting, because now I have to start doing mental gymnastics for my character in order to make it fit.

 

As I said before this specific example isn't some big thing. I'm not asking for anything that's going to cause a split in the story or some weird outlandish thing that most people wouldn't think of.

 

I'm literally asking that a character be able to make comments about her own people's history. It should not be a stretch to assume that the Keeper's Second knows some Elvish lore and is willing to comment on it.

[AlanC9]

Technically yeah, but I consider it a stupid option =P
 
Mostly because I as a player can't get that information otherwise, even though my character should know it. If it were a Pen and Paper game, I could just ask the GM for it(if it wasn't something in official resources) but I don't have that luxury in a video game.

I think I've lost track. Exactly what information are we talking about here?

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think I've lost track. Exactly what information are we talking about here?

Elven lore.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's most dialogue hub events in DA:I, yes. That is exactly what I am saying the problem with the game's ability to let you RP is. That frequent single option is very limiting, because now I have to start doing mental gymnastics for my character in order to make it fit.

Do you have an example of a voiced protagonist game doing a better job while still allowing player characters of diverse backgrounds?

I think you've found a real problem, but it's a problem that stems from voicing the characters, and isn't in any way unique to DAI.

The problem you were originally complaining about doesn't exist (or it exists equally is all games where we select among dialogue options).

I'm literally asking that a character be able to make comments about her own people's history. It should not be a stretch to assume that the Keeper's Second knows some Elvish lore and is willing to comment on it.

I completely agree with this.

[KallenX]

it shouldn't be unexpected that the exploration area could be regularly expanded with planets and areas to socialize with other players if Bioware is going to go into MMO territory.  I have a feeling a lot of Mass Effect fans really haven't played a lot of other games to see where this could be going.  (the fact that ME followers will likely have crying fits no matter what Bioware does shouldn't stop Bioware from being innovative and building more immersive game story environments).

 

The hybrid of MMO, Action, and RPG seems like a very likely possibility.   Being able to fly a ship that can navigate even just one local system means we can choose our preferred area of gameplay.  Options to play as a colonist, play as a pirate, as human military, etc, without the PC being what the universe revolves around.   Stories can easily be crafted to trigger when you explore enough and meet a certain NPC, but you have to actually travel and talk to NPCs and interact with the environment in the way you want to role-play your character.

 

Enabling an infinite feeling of places to go and explore by adding more places on the star charts we can travel to (as add ons/subscription) that have devs and writers continually contributing stories and their characters just means we'd get to enjoy our favourite worlds/aliens even more.  Who wouldn't want that? I guess people who can't think outside of the box of packaged games that have a linear start and end. 

 

So when someone at Bioware says the next installment will be staggering in size, that is what i imagine and want. 

 

The ability to Role-Play is open, the ability to enjoy good game-play stories is there, the feeling that things matter counts   If you want visceral nonstop flashes and bangs buy the new Doom where you run around the same maps over and over and over and somehow never get bored.

[DarthLaxian]

The two actually interesting bits of that article are the alleged confirmation of Ryder as the protagonist name, and this screenshot:

 

 

Who? I thought we could name our protagonist again (or is Ryder the family-name? (not a great name IMHO...don't like it))?

 

greetings LAX

ps: That damned new Mako still looks like a fancy piece of farm-machinery (a tractor!) to me

[MsKlaussen]

 

6. If we have to travel far distances (like over land), at least let us call for supply drops so we can be less interrupted with our time. I'd rather fight to find or defend a supply drop than to wonder around looking for few resources. It's okay with me if I have to find a minor resource on a planet to keep my mako from running out of fuel, or find a temporary resting spot for a battle-field conversation with my squad, but I don't want to go to 6 places in the area that would break my focus to complete the mission.

 

What do you think?

 

I always like the idea of "attempted" drops. I don't dig where I just radio in and some ship is on standby and ad nauseum drops supplies right on my squad's head with pinpoint accuracy or within line of sight so all we have to do is hump it over there and take our time gearing up.

 

No I prefer this way:

 

• We called in for a drop. It never showed. What the hell? Call again. Atmospheric storms are blocking the transmission? So did they ever get the request?

 

• They got the request, because we got the 'ack' back. In the direction from which they should have been coming, there was an explosion. Oh snaps...

 

• They made the drop! Who are those...Hey that's my damned thermos! Get me my ASMD rifl - sorry wrong game.

 

• I can see the drop ship circling. Those are tracer rounds heading toward it! Did someone intercept our transmission and get there first? Well, that's our stuff. Let's go explain that part to them.

 

• Fleet command just told us to find two sticks and rub them together. They don't have the resources right now to put together a drop! Cheap sons of-

See? I always had a thing for games like Uprising, where I'd be trying to dodge fire while dropping a citadel or other base building which is being attacked from the ground or otherwise fired on and I'd have to defend it or else in the action I'd lose track of which direction the base was and would have to hightail it back. Or the citadel would be rammed midair either accidentally or intentionally by some enemy fighter and destroyed, costing me energy and time while fighting and waiting for the next chance to get a citadel dropped. It adds a random chance(y) type of excitement to the game.

[The Night Haunter]

Size is only a positive if there are meaningful things to do in that space.  If it's just huge zones where we do nothing but pick Flowers of Life and kill the occasional Invid, then I will be disappointed.

That's why the article saying MEA might be BW's biggest game is huge turnoff for me. I'd hoped BW would of learned their lesson from the feedback DAI got, pretty much everyone hated how big the game was because it came at the expense of everything real.

I'm really hoping the article is wrong and MEA isn't actually that big, I'd much prefer quality over quantity.

[KallenX]

Ok, I agree, you don't need a world of staggering size to role play. I made this video for you.  Me RPing my Qunari in DAI.  Maybe we'll get lucky and have similar opportunities in MEA without having to go anywhere.

 

https://www.youtube....2&v=qYrubZS2OMk

 

Who needs places to go physically when you can travel from inside your own mind...