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Mass Effect: Andromeda’s size is “Staggering”: Bioware


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#126
spinachdiaper

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Fun fact it isn't just us gays who go on about romance.

Cassandra Pentaghast and the amount of bitching about "Romance options suck for straight men" prove that. ;)

Just as long as they don't give us another G rated Josie romance I'll be OK with anything else


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#127
Donk

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Just as long as they don't give us another G rated Josie romance I'll be OK with anything else


I never romanced her. Not because of lack of boobs, but her personality :sick: politics and nobility is not a turn on.

#128
spinachdiaper

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I never romanced her. Not because of lack of boobs, but her personality :sick: politics and nobility is not a turn on.

I went in blind thinking an Antivan woman would be a lady on the streets but a freak in the sheets. In retrospect it was a heartwarming romance option but that wasn't what I was looking for, oh well maybe I'll be able to accept that type of sappy, mushy, fluff again in ME:A, maybe.


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#129
Hanako Ikezawa

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Just as long as they don't give us another G rated Josie romance I'll be OK with anything else

Meanwhile I hope there are a lot more romances like Josephine's. Easily my favorite Bioware romance. 



#130
Grieving Natashina

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I still don't follow this. Cut the war table and those missions.... still wouldn't be in the game.
Unless you're saying that the war table made you feel worse about the rest of the game than you would have if it hadn't been in the game? That's a silly feeling, but feelings are often silly.
Or are we not really talking about the war table at all? If that's the case, then why are we talking about the war table?


I'm talking about the War Table. I would have rather had the Table used for things like farming crafting materials, or protecting a small village that isn't relevant to the plot, or building a bridge. Little things like that. Then have the player do some of things that are bigger. I am not saying they should have cut it, but I think it was misused.

I keep going back to the elven clan and the Wardens, but that actually made me a little angry. It seems like that some of the quests in zones that involved gathering X number of materials could have been put onto the War Table (like gathering the goods for the elven clan in the Emerald Graves) and have fewer side quests in exchange for having the bigger WT quests be playable first hand. I'm not talking about smaller things, like Cullen's quests to defend a village while Red Jenny "plays." I'm also not referring to things like finding the HoF, since that should be keep to text for simplicity sake. Some of the stories can be a lot of fun to read, and I can see why they left it text only.

I think that things like the Wardens, the elven PC clan, interactions with the background (like the Carta or the human PC's family) should not have been text only. Instead of wasting zots on some of the more ridiculous fetch quests, I would have liked to see more of those kinds of stories. Sorry, in my opinion, they could have scrapped the entirety of the Oasis and I don't think it would have made much of a difference to the main plot. There is a little bit of story there, but honestly the whole zone could be easily summed up by a rather short Codex entry instead of being shown on screen.

Did the WT make me feel worse about the game? No, it didn't. I thought it was a big wart on an otherwise pretty fun gaming experience. I'm looking forward to playing the DLCs since I'm starting to get some free time again. So it didn't make me dislike DA:I. However, I do feel like the DA team stumbled quite a bit on that front. I'm hoping that if they use that system again for either series, they have it used for more fluff/or less interesting quests.
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#131
Addictress

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I still don't follow this. Cut the war table and those missions.... still wouldn't be in the game.

Unless you're saying that the war table made you feel worse about the rest of the game than you would have if it hadn't been in the game? That's a silly feeling, but feelings are often silly.

Or are we not really talking about the war table at all? If that's the case, then why are we talking about the war table?


Not really true. They could've cut 100 hours of 4-member-party fetch & collection quests in empty lands and instead taken a few of the biggest war table missions and animated them, showing armies and other characters involved. They could've kept the war table but better integrated it with everything else.

Remember the scale of the original DAI keeps. 3 keeps and 4 party members taking each one? Really?
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#132
MichaelN7

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I find that "open-space" is often confused for "open-world".

Just because something is a wide-open space, doesn't mean it's a populated world.

 

A true open-world game has other characters besides you, doing things that you don't necessarily have any control over.

That's one thing that DA:I had spot-on regarding your companions; outside of direct combat, you did not have any absolute control over who they were, what they liked, and what they do.

Your interactions with them could exert an influence, and it was gradual.

First they think you're not so bad, then they like you, and eventually they will stand with you 'till the bitter end.

Or they think you're a bit of a jerk, then a real creep, and eventually abandoning you to your fate.

 

With Mass Effect, it's relatively simple to get everyone to like you (more-or-less) and be a HERO; or get everyone to fear you and be an ANTI-HERO.

I enjoyed it, and it works well for the series.

WIth Dragon Age, not everyone is going to like you because several character interactions are "exclusive", i.e. you say one thing and Companion A "Greatly Approves" whereas Companion B "Disapproves".

The complication is interesting and thought-provoking, leading to role-playing mind-games like "Why would my character say this?" or "Why would he feel this way about this circumstance?"

 

Whether it's the binary simplicity of Mass Effect or the branching spiral of Dragon Age, the dialogue needs to take on different flavors based on what option you pick, but isn't completely at your beck and call.  Influence, not necessary absolute control.

 

-------------

 

One thing I like about Skyrim was that things happen that you have no control over:

You leave Breezehome and suddenly a vampire and his thralls start attacking the townspeople.  Here you are ready to go the College of Winterhold to learn a new Restoration spell but now you have to break out your weapons and combat magic to quell the threat.  All the while hoping you don't incur an assault charge by accidentally hitting the guards.

And then the vampire kills one of the citizens, who had given you a quest previously, except now that they're dead, you failed the quest.

 

Something like the above, where you have no idea it's happening, no way to prepare, you just have to grit your teeth and get through it.

It doesn't have to be earth-shattering, or "epic", or anything like that, but it gives the world LIFE, it shows REAL, LIVING people and events that are happening whether you do anything about it or not.

It shows that there are other powers in the world other than yourself that have wills of their own.

A good open-world scenario does that.  It gives the player just enough power to get started, but also gives other entities in the world power as well.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting ME:A needs to be a "SKYRIM IN SPACE", but I feel BioWare could take a page out of Bethesda's book regarding how to take an open space and make it an open world.

 

Put simply, have NPC's act on their own without needing the protagonist to "activate" them (scripted sequences are obviously exempt, for story reasons), and have some events that are "semi-scripted", i.e. it makes sense in context, but it doesn't announce itself with flashing lights and sirens, and it puts you on the spot.

 

It's not a massive endeavor, but it goes a long way to making your open space an open world.


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#133
AresKeith

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Not really true. They could've cut 100 hours of 4-member-party fetch & collection quests in empty lands and instead taken a few of the biggest war table missions and animated them, showing armies and other characters involved. They could've kept the war table but better integrated it with everything else.

Remember the scale of the original DAI keeps. 3 keeps and 4 party members taking each one? Really?

 

That had nothing to do with how the War table was used


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#134
Addictress

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I find that "open-space" is often confused for "open-world".
Just because something is a wide-open space, doesn't mean it's a populated world.

A true open-world game has other characters besides you, doing things that you don't necessarily have any control over.
That's one thing that DA:I had spot-on regarding your companions; outside of direct combat, you did not have any absolute control over who they were, what they liked, and what they do.
Your interactions with them could exert an influence, and it was gradual.
First they think you're not so bad, then they like you, and eventually they will stand with you 'till the bitter end.
Or they think you're a bit of a jerk, then a real creep, and eventually abandoning you to your fate.

With Mass Effect, it's relatively simple to get everyone to like you (more-or-less) and be a HERO; or get everyone to fear you and be an ANTI-HERO.
I enjoyed it, and it works well for the series.
WIth Dragon Age, not everyone is going to like you because several character interactions are "exclusive", i.e. you say one thing and Companion A "Greatly Approves" whereas Companion B "Disapproves".
The complication is interesting and thought-provoking, leading to role-playing mind-games like "Why would my character say this?" or "Why would he feel this way about this circumstance?"

Whether it's the binary simplicity of Mass Effect or the branching spiral of Dragon Age, the dialogue needs to take on different flavors based on what option you pick, but isn't completely at your beck and call. Influence, not necessary absolute control.

-------------

One thing I like about Skyrim was that things happen that you have no control over:
You leave Breezehome and suddenly a vampire and his thralls start attacking the townspeople. Here you are ready to go the College of Winterhold to learn a new Restoration spell but now you have to break out your weapons and combat magic to quell the threat. All the while hoping you don't incur an assault charge by accidentally hitting the guards.
And then the vampire kills one of the citizens, who had given you a quest previously, except now that they're dead, you failed the quest.

Something like the above, where you have no idea it's happening, no way to prepare, you just have to grit your teeth and get through it.
It doesn't have to be earth-shattering, or "epic", or anything like that, but it gives the world LIFE, it shows REAL, LIVING people and events that are happening whether you do anything about it or not.
It shows that there are other powers in the world other than yourself that have wills of their own.
A good open-world scenario does that. It gives the player just enough power to get started, but also gives other entities in the world power as well.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting ME:A needs to be a "SKYRIM IN SPACE", but I feel BioWare could take a page out of Bethesda's book regarding how to take an open space and make it an open world.

Put simply, have NPC's act on their own without needing the protagonist to "activate" them (scripted sequences are obviously exempt, for story reasons), and have some events that are "semi-scripted", i.e. it makes sense in context, but it doesn't announce itself with flashing lights and sirens, and it puts you on the spot.

It's not a massive endeavor, but it goes a long way to making your open space an open world.


True, but the different companion value systems of DAI companions, while more sophisticated than the companion approval systems of Mass Effect, don't contribute to open-worldness for me. I still felt like all my companions were in Skyhold all the time, I was the chosen one and there wasn't a great deal of autonomy in my companions. Which is why Blackwall and Solas are the best, because Blackwall does strike out autonomously and Solas, at the end, as well. The other companions are really hard to get rid of.

#135
Addictress

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That had nothing to do with how the War table was used

Yes it does. Because if they had designed more game time and resources on SHOWIG and not telling - ie a more legit method of capturing keeps, with armies instead of 4 buddies, and better story surrounding each keep and how it affects the region - then they would thematically bridge the war table to the actual story.

Design. The scale is huge. Vascillating between extreme closeups on 4 people and then a bunch of dialogue boxes on a war table interface does not present the scale smoothly
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#136
AresKeith

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Yes it does. Because if they had designed more game time and resources on SHOWIG and not telling - ie a more legit method of capturing keeps, with armies instead of 4 buddies, and better story surrounding each keep and how it affects the region - then they would thematically bridge the war table to the actual story.

Design. The scale is huge. Vascillating between extreme closeups on 4 people and then a bunch of dialogue boxes on a war table interface does not present the scale smoothly

 

Except those features (showing larger battles, the keeps) were cut because of limitations from last gen consoles not because Bioware did the War Table


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#137
Addictress

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Essentially we need an intermediate storytelling structure to bind the concept of the war table to the central plot

#138
Addictress

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Except those features (showing larger battles, the keeps) were cut because of limitations from last gen consoles not because Bioware did the War Table

Then how did they do Adamant? Adamant was great. They needed 5 more Adamants and 100 less Hinterlands hours.

And they could keep the war table but certainly not Relied so much on it. They should've allocated a share of the time and...idk...stuff in the war table to other storyteling structures.
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#139
AresKeith

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Then how did they do Adamant? Adamant was great. They needed 5 more Adamants and 100 less Hinterlands hours.

 

Adamant wasn't that big outside of the cutscene, it was the same size (maybe less) than the Arbor Wilds when the actual gameplay starts

 

And they could keep the war table but certainly not Relied so much on it. They should've allocated a share of the time and...idk...stuff in the war table to other storyteling structures.

 

I agree that they could've did that and I'm still of the opinion that some of the War table missions were meant to be actual mission but had to cut due to similar issues with the other features


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#140
Addictress

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Adamant wasn't that big outside of the cutscene, it was the same size (maybe less) than the Arbor Wilds when the actual gameplay starts


I agree that they could've did that and I'm still of the opinion that some of the War table missions were meant to be actual mission but had to cut due to similar issues with the other features


Well see, Adamant had some critical design choices about it that made me feel like it was a great quest. It doesn't seem like much but it stood out. I feel like every keep or region should've been like Adamant, then I could transition from the Adamants, or the keeps obtained therefrom, to the branching out war table things in each region. Idk, I'm not a writer, but creative people could do a lot with this.
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#141
AresKeith

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Well see, Adamant had some critical design choices about it that made me feel like it was a great quest. It doesn't seem like much but it stood out. I feel like every keep or region should've been like Adamant, then I could transition from the Adamants, or the keeps obtained therefrom, to the branching out war table things in each region. Idk, I'm not a writer, but creative people could do a lot with this.

 

Of course creative people could do this, but it's always a guarantee that it'll always translate well into the game itself

 

Like the Keeps themselves got reduced from what they originally was in the alpha because of technical issues  


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#142
The Real Pearl #2

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 irrelevant reference:

 

Ares? Ares...AAAAARRREESSSSS!!!

Kratosmad--article_image.jpg



#143
Addictress

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Of course creative people could do this, but it's always a guarantee that it'll always translate well into the game itself

Like the Keeps themselves got reduced from what they originally was in the alpha because of technical issues

But it mattered so hard. What should I do, pity Bioware? Their track record with investors is amazeballs, they should've just done it.

Look at Griffon Keep. The friggin Venatori of the Tevinter Imperium are there, and I just see like...10 Venatori guys chilling, and I take 3 buddies and Blackwall solo bashes in the main doors of a FORTRESS and we kill em and that's it?

Like what's Corypheus even doing with his life?

Is Corypheus and his *forces* really that threatening??

#144
Sifr

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I went in blind thinking an Antivan woman would be a lady on the streets but a freak in the sheets.

 

Just because we didn't see her getting busy, doesn't mean she doesn't have any kinks when it comes to what she does in the bedroom... as she tells us, she can get "quite exuberant, when the occasion demands it".

 

That's my headcanon and I'm sticking to it!

 

:P :lol:



#145
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Corypheus the SLACKER

#146
AresKeith

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But it mattered so hard. What should I do, pity Bioware? Their track record with investors is amazeballs, they should've just done it.

 

It isn't that they should've just done it, it's whether the game would've handled it or not and the answer is that it wouldn't have

 

Look at Griffon Keep. The friggin Venatori of the Tevinter Imperium are there, and I just see like...10 Venatori guys chilling, and I take 3 buddies and Blackwall solo bashes in the main doors of a FORTRESS and we kill em and that's it?

 

Outside of there not being a story arc with it, that sounds like basic video game stuff....


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#147
BaaBaaBlacksheep

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Just as long as they don't give us another G rated Josie romance I'll be OK with anything else

Ditto.

#148
Arcian

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http://segmentnext.c...gering-bioware/

Andromeda is a great game, it's a huge game! Everyone I talk to agree that it's a huge game, a massive game. Let me tell you, it's a tremendous game. Really just tremendous.
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#149
TK514

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Andromeda is a great game, it's a huge game! Everyone I talk to agree that it's a huge game, a massive game. Let me tell you, it's a tremendous game. Really just tremendous.

 

You are a bad person, and I laughed.


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#150
prosthetic soul

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You are a bad person, and I laughed.

He/She is a good person, and I laughed.


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