34 réponses à ce sujet

[Aulis Vaara]

So, after all we've learned in The Descent and Trespasser, and after replaying Corypheus just now (it's still a terrible bossfight and a terrible ending to this game), it seems very, very obvious that the Black City is indeed the remnants of a dead Titan, shoved into the Fade. This was likely done by the elves once they discovered what they had unleashed.

I'm also more and more convinced that in our little jaunt through the Fade in Here Lies The Abyss, we were actually IN the Black City. The clue being that there really is nothing to see there (were it not that the Nightmare demon took up residence). There may be a throne room in there somewhere, but it is no more significant than anything else there.

The questions now become why the place was ever golden. And secondly, whether the Primeval Thaig is another Tainted Titan, alive or dead, or if it's part of the same Tainted Titan that did not get shoved into the Fade.

[Heimdall]

Obvious?  Um, I disagree.

 

We, in fact, still know absolutely nothing about what the Black City is, why pre-First Blight Tevinter records describe it as Golden, and there's no indication at all that it is a dead Titan ,or that what we encountered was the Black City.

 

I do suspect that the primeval Thaig is dead Titan though.

[ArcaneEsper]

You can very clearly see the Black City in Here Lies the Abyss. If you take Solas along, he points out as much. If there's a part in DAI which can count as the Black City, I'd be much more inclined to believe it's where we run into Flemeth and Kieran in the Fade because IIRC the Black City isn't visible at all during that portion, and I remember someone mentioning that there's a throne there too. Such compelling evidence lol.

[Reznore57]

Still think it's Arlathan.

There's this piece of lore about the elves believing their Gods are trapped in the Eternal City in the fade...It's in some WOT book , but for some reason that belief as far as I remember is never brought on in game by anyone.

Which is too bad , because there's not a lot of cities in the fade , but lore says there's numerous gods who have been squatting there.Maker , Creators , Old Gods .

 

As for why the place was ever golden , well again I have my theories.Ancient elves liked their gold.We've seen numerous golden statues , and Mythal's temple is shiny.

Also there's some notes you can find in the DA artbook the ancient elven temple were bling bling land , and there's even a note about the Black City .Dev notes says they wanted it to stand in the fade like a "corrupted sun".

 

I have to say I have a mild Sun obsession.But in Dalish lore , Elgarn'an defeated the Sun , which is highly possible because ancient elven text call him Sun Killer , and his mosaic in the temple of Mythal was shown as holding down the sun.

Now the Dalish myth says the Sun was send in some abyss , blablabla , Mythal calmed things down , the Sun was tamed and she created the Moon.

But what if she created the Golden City , Arlathan , instead as a pale immitation of the Sun?

We know something is fishy about the Golden City anyway.The Dead Whispers , and the Blight turning the whole place black isn't "normal".If Varric's girlfriend is right and the Blight can only truly infect the living , and we know lyrium is kind of alive , and an Eluvian was also infected ...you have to wonder with what material the elves were building their magical stuff exactly.

[Xerrai]

I don't think its that obvious at all. I never even conecieved the possibility of that notion until you put it forth. While I agree that there is a connection between Titans and the blight, I find it highly dubious that a Titan--even a dead one--can be thrust into the Fade and then remain there.

 

The magic that the Titans have (implied to be lyrium) has the potential to both enhance and conflict with the magic from the fade. The magic they use is kind of like the blight magic in that sense--its magic comes from a different source instead of the default fade energies everyone else uses. Further, their natural environment is using their magic to 'shape the stone' that both encompasses them and is them to a certain degree. So taking them away from that would be a fairly monumental task in and of itself seeing how it so grounded (no pun intended) to being a part of the earth.

 

Maybe a part of the Titan is there? I could believe that a whole lot more seeing how the elves were presumably transporting Titan stuff (even if it was just lyrium) all over the place

 

I'm not saying its impossible. But I am saying I am not even close to believing it.

[Iakus]

 

We know something is fishy about the Golden City anyway.The Dead Whispers , and the Blight turning the whole place black isn't "normal".If Varric's girlfriend is right and the Blight can only truly infect the living , and we know lyrium is kind of alive , and an Eluvian was also infected ...you have to wonder with what material the elves were building their magical stuff exactly.

It also makes you wonder, if the Maker did live there and has since departed, did he really "turn away" from humanity, or was he driven out or even killed by someone/something?

[Xerrai]

It also makes you wonder, if the Maker did live there and has since departed, did he really "turn away" from humanity, or was he driven out or even killed by someone/something?

But what if instead of "turning away" he escaped instead? The Magisters had to break in to even get close to it, so who is say noone/nothing wanted to get out? 

[myahele]

I always beleived that the Golden/Black city was an "engineering marvel" done the the Ancient Elves. They were able to make pocket dimension in between Fade/ unchanging world. The next step is to make something unchanging within the Fade. Something done out of Hubris and because they could, but it was at a great (lyrium, slaves, etc) cost. Like what we do with Skyscrappers .. but more advanced.

 

If people could physically enter the Fade, sure a similar magic (but great) could have been used to do that the the Golden City? Either it created in the Unchanging World and transported (with some magic) into the Fade. Maybe they even used Lyrium from a defeated Titan to further cement it into the Fade? Afterall, Lyrium can enforce "reality" 

 

In either case, i believe the City existed in Ancient Elvhen time since Solas was actually happy/giddy when he 1st saw the Black City. For such a foreboding place, why would Solas be so nonchalant?

 

Anyways, we don't really know what method Coryphues and crew used to enter the City ... perhaps some of the lyrium they used a red lyrium? Thus easily corrupting a City like how the it can taint Eluvians ad Lyrium.

 

Anyways, one Mural in Trespasser shows what looks like a City and in the middle we see the symbol of the Sun

[Reznore57]

It also makes you wonder, if the Maker did live there and has since departed, did he really "turn away" from humanity, or was he driven out or even killed by someone/something?

 

I sort of want to say don't get me started , I'm going further down the Sun madness rambling (sorry) but...

 

There's some interesting thing here and there.

Now the Maker/Chantry symbolism is the Sun.

And if you read the  creation of the world  myth in the Chant of Light , and try to imagine the Maker's first children were not exactly spirits but the first elves...and at the very least Elgar'nan was known as the Sun son...it gets eerie.

It fits well enough except when there is a conflict between this Maker and its creation.

In the Chant , the Maker turns away because it's brooding time .But the elven part of this story would be the first children beat their father senseless and tamed him.

Now at the very least in the Dalish myth , there was some bad consequences for the conflict between Elgar'nan and the Sun , but Mythal calmed things down and they managed some truce , with the Sun being the looser but still.

Since that part of the story we can only find in Dalish stories , it's hard to be sure it did happen.

[myahele]

Yeah, I agree with the Sun Diety; in fact the Elvhen reminds me alot of greco-roman mythological figures.

 

It would not surprise me if The Sun was defeated by the Evanuris; afterall, the Evanuris were known for this Great War and eventually through propaganda and feats of strength they became known as gods.

 

If anything, the Sun seems to be as vital (and dangerous) as Titans are; thus it being spared for the sake of the world's existence.

 

If Dalish myth is to be believed somewhat, the Sun is very jealous and won't hesitate to "burn" the world and life on it. Afterall, the "Sun" was perfectly fine when there were no life around.

[Iakus]

I sort of want to say don't get me started , I'm going further down the Sun madness rambling (sorry) but...

 

There's some interesting thing here and there.

Now the Maker/Chantry symbolism is the Sun.

And if you read the  creation of the world  myth in the Chant of Light , and try to imagine the Maker's first children were not exactly spirits but the first elves...and at the very least Elgar'nan was known as the Sun son...it gets eerie.

It fits well enough except when there is a conflict between this Maker and its creation.

In the Chant , the Maker turns away because it's brooding time .But the elven part of this story would be the first children beat their father senseless and tamed him.

Now at the very least in the Dalish myth , there was some bad consequences for the conflict between Elgar'nan and the Sun , but Mythal calmed things down and they managed some truce , with the Sun being the looser but still.

Since that part of the story we can only find in Dalish stories , it's hard to be sure it did happen.

 

Sounds Tolkienesque, where the elves were the "First-born" of Iluvater, the Middle-Earth creator deity.  

 

With a dash of Zeus vs Chronos 

[Heimdall]

I think the Sun might be an allusion to the Old Gods and that they dominated Thedas in the flesh long ago. Throwing down the sun thus being an allusion to some primordial war between the emergent elves and the dragons. It might be that there really was an eighth Old God, more powerful than all the rest, and it was the Sun.

If the City was created by the ancient elves, maybe it's a prison for the eighth deity or whatever remains of it, maybe the Old Gods were trying to set it free when they spoke to Corypheus (Though I don't think the Blight was what they were aiming for). The Dalish myth describe the Sun as vital to the world, and I believe Morrigan's sister (Can't remember her name right now), said something like "The blood of dragons is the blood of the world." Which would explain their imprisonment rather than death.

[Feral'Hen]

The Black City seems to be where the Evanuris were trapped by Solas, and that's quite important, because we know it was corrupted before Cory and co. got there. After all, it is no coincidence that The Old Gods are said to begin whispering to humanity from the Black City only 50 years after the elves first notice the Quickening, which we know was a side effect of Solas's master strike: the creation of The Veil.

 

If the Old Gods were just the corrupted Evanuris, or something far worse whispering through them, what are those big buried dragons then? Well, here is an interesting in-game dialogue about that:

 

- Cassandra: so what is it (the red lyrium dragon), then? A corrupted dragon, simply another darkspawn?

- Solas: it is connected to Corypheus. Such relation goes beyond mere control - it is a bond.

- Cassandra: it makes you wonder if that's all the archdemons are: pets to beings who no longer exist.

- Solas: I wouldn't go as far as that. This dragon is a replica spawned from a creature who aspires to greatness, no more.

 

Solas is basically telling us that Corypheus was just copying the boundary between the Evanuris and their draconian safeguards: the Old Gods. Each one of those beings holds a small piece of the soul of a trapped Evanuris, and the darkspawn are attracted to them, so... well, draw your own conclusions.

 

There is still something weird about the Black City that I cannot explain: the fact that it seems to be both in the Fade and deep underground, somehow. According to chantry lore, the seven magisters fell from the sky and went unto hiding in the deep roads, but taking into account what we know about eluvians and also some cryptic codex entries (including The Mason's Tales: The Fall) looks like those who managed to get out of the city did, in fact, just pop out somewhere deep underground. To support this theory, we have something as old as Tamlen's visions:

 

- Tamlen: it's... showing me places. I can se... some kind of city... underground? And... there's a great blackness... It... it saw me! help! I can't look away!

 

Could that be the sunken Arlathan? Honestly, I don't know.

[Reznore57]

 

The Black City seems to be where the Evanuris were trapped by Solas, and that's quite important, because we know it was corrupted before Cory and co. got there. After all, it is no coincidence that The Old Gods are said to begin whispering to humanity from the Black City only 50 years after the elves first notice the Quickening, which we know was a side effect of Solas's master strike: the creation of The Veil.

 

If the Old Gods were just the corrupted Evanuris, or something far worse whispering through them, what are those big buried dragons then? Well, here is an interesting in-game dialogue about that:

 

- Cassandra: so what is it (the red lyrium dragon), then? A corrupted dragon, simply another darkspawn?

- Solas: it is connected to Corypheus. Such relation goes beyond mere control - it is a bond.

- Cassandra: it makes you wonder if that's all the archdemons are: pets to beings who no longer exist.

- Solas: I wouldn't go as far as that. This dragon is a replica spawned from a creature who aspires to greatness, no more.

 

Solas is basically telling us that Corypheus was just copying the boundary between the Evanuris and their draconian safeguards: the Old Gods. Each one of those beings holds a small piece of the soul of a trapped Evanuris, and the darkspawn are attracted to them, so... well, draw your own conclusions.

 

There is still something weird about the Black City that I cannot explain: the fact that it seems to be both in the Fade and deep underground, somehow. According to chantry lore, the seven magisters fell from the sky and went unto hiding in the deep roads, but taking into account what we know about eluvians and also some cryptic codex entries (including 

 

 

 

There's a couple of design like the Solas fresco Myahele posted with the symbol of the Sun being in the center of the city , and you can find designs on old dwarven site and old elven site with the symbol of the Sun being under the earth too.

I have no idea what the sun as a symbol could have ment for ancient dwarves and ancient elves, honestly.

 

To go back to the Black City , again in the picture Myahele posted there's what vaguely look like seven locks around the city ,you can't see those very well .

 

Full colored image underneath.

Spoiler

 

(Edit :I talked about the Drakon prophecy here , for reason unknown it got cut once I posted my reply.Drakon had a strange vision of the apocalypse seeing stuff like maybe Titans maybe fen harel blablabla)

Anyway in this he talks about the Seven Gates of the Golden City.

Besides there is 7 Old Gods too.

Darkness aka the Blight covers both realm , I assume both realm means the Fade gets infected by the Blight too.

If it's a possibility , the magisters didn't fully unleash the Blight , and it's still contained by those gates.

 

Now during Witch Hunt , when you go to the circle in Ferelden , you can talk again to the Tevinter statue in the basement.She too has visions.When there's tears in the veil , she's utterly freaked out and she says the prison is breached and she sees the Darkness coming .It's possible she wasn't talking about Cory and co going to the city and bringing it back but she saw some gates of the Golden City were already destroyed and it's just a matter of time before things gets really really sour.

 

Now The seven things in the Solas mosaic , 4 are black and 3 are golden.No idea if it's supposed to mean something but it keeps on with the Light /Darkness theme .

Now my crazy theory (for now) is the elves not sure I would say messed up badly ,but they defeated an Entity vital to Thedas , and it had consequences ...I imagine the Blight started big time and it was unraveling all creation.

They did managed to overcome this , keeping things together and be freed from that entity.

I imagine via magic they bend that "Light" power and made it do its job , I assume the Golden City which I think is Arlathan is part of that.And I assume the whole thing is held together by those 7 Old Gods underground.

They might be those gates or seal , magical of course , keeping this pissed off Sun magical energy contained .

 

                                                                                                                                                       

 

Spoiler tag beneath because I go into a wall of text rambling about stuff that have little to do with the main topic.

 

Spoiler

 

Now to go back to the "Sun" or not.and to go completly off topic , you're warned, sorry.

 

I find this sun entity extremely confusing to be honest.

The problem I have is we're at a point where we don't have just a neat "Great mystical unknown power" vs "Ancient elves."

Nope we have a bunch of others powerful entities during those times too.

Namely :the Titans and the Great Dragons.

 

Titans are the easiest to figure out , sort of , for now.(and I guess that's saying something because we only learned details about those in Descent.)

So we have and probably had Titans chilling underground and sometimes shaking it baby because that's what they do.Work the Stone.

The "Stone" or "Earth" just like the "Sun" is sometimes called out as its own entity independant from Titans .Truth is nobody knows.

The Stone could be a thing , could be a metaphor for the collective of Titans , or like the Sun just an headache.

 

We know lyrium is Titan's blood , and it has magical properties .In some case it can reinforce the reality of Thedas , limiting the powers of the fade over the Earth.

Elves were well aware of this fact , the Earth had its own pull , and they had limited power over it.(http://dragonage.wik...ntive_Listeners)

Still the elves decided the Earth was theirs , and they went after Titans.They wanted lyrium but also something unknown.They also wanted to make the earth "bloom" with their death.

The elves did try something with some Titans carcass...but they pissed something off."It" went angry , and the elves ran away in fear.

 

http://dragonage.wik..._the_Deep_Roads

It's an interesting entry .

Mythal killed or kicked the immense backside of Titans , and the people calls her their savior , and it seems finally the elves took the lands for themselves.

Then we have perhaps a hints of what the elves meant to do with the Titans , besides butchering them.

"Scent of blood fill the air ": could be lyrium , could be some people were sacrificed , no specific about whose blood was used.

"A green vine growing and envelopping a sphere of fire."The plant growing goes with the "bloom" the elves were after.But you have to wonder why the elves so wanted to make plants grow exactly?Was it some special plants for a magical ritual?Or ancient Thedas was a wasteland with no plants whatsoever when the elves started to build their empire?

And then "envelopping a sphere of fire."...well I don't want to say the "Sun" but I'm saying it .Could it be that other thing the elves went after Titans for?Could the Titans somewhere in their huge bodies have a mini Sun , it could be their heart or whatever , holding that Light power which seems to be the wellspring of all creation?

It could explain why when we find a Titan in Descent , it felt like fining an oasis in the middle of the desert.They have a whole ecosystem inside their guts.

 

Anyway by sacrificing a Titan and doing something to it , the Elves pissed something off , and decided to ran for their life , seal the place , and went Qunari with the whole" let's never talk about this again."

 

 

Now the Great Dragons :

And we really don't know much.As far as I know we've never seen a Great dragon in game.

What's left of those are asleep.It takes some unknown blood ritual to wake them up.

What we vaguely know comes from Yavana , Flemythal's daughter.What she says is : those Great Beast used to rule the sky before the veil.And their blood is the blood of the world.

 

From the get go they are a bit like Titans , asleep , important blood and having a role in the balance of the world but it's unknown what exactly.

Difference with Titans is their blood for once , people can drink lyrium and it shouldn't effect future generations.

Great dragons blood well it stays in the family line.

Also  you can use lyrium to reinforce the reality of Thedas , you can in theory use dragons blood and affect the mind of everyone .Think massive bloodmagic mind control spell.

 

Different relationship with the ancient elves too.

The elves do not speak of dragons , they often wax poetry about their Gods looking like dragon though , and it seems the dragon form was known as the "Divine" form.

It's strange because take away the shapechanging shenanigans , actual dragons ...well it seems to me they tamed those.Or at least Mythal.The dragon is one of her symbol , she had an actual dragon guarding her altar ,she taught her daughter Yavana ,an old language (not elven I'd say) dragons respond to and obey like dogs.

 

Primitive humans , before Tevinter , also worshipped dragons in a manner of speaking.They thought dragons were part of a reincarnation process.The best of them would be reborn as dragons.It seems that ancient belief ease paved the way for the Old Gods religion.

 

Anyway something more interesting , dwarves were scared s***less of dragons.Now of course with the Evanuris being able to shapeshift and look like those , it's impossible to know if the dwarves were scared of the great beasts of the elven gods.

There's also really old mosaic showing elves and dwarves fighting dragons.Again who knows what those dragons truly represents.

But there is a strange knowledge the dwarves hold.(http://dragonage.wik...Caged_in_Stone)

They know how to bound something to the Stone.Demons , dragons , all trapped in the Stone somehow.

It's possible it has to do with lyrium properties , making fade power less effective.

They could have helped with sealing the 7 old gods underground ,wether they are great dragons or Evanuris in dragon form.

 

Now the main problem I have is the lack of information concerning dwarven empire and elven empire.They had some form of relationship , when Mythal went underground to slay Titans she has dealings with those children of the Stone.

"Though I remember my Keeper telling a story about how the dwarves fear the sun because of Elgar'nan's fire."(http://dragonage.wik...ads,_Section_3)

 

The dwarves being afraid of the Sun because they feared Elgar'nan's fire.It might go back to our dwarves being afraid of dragons or it's Dalish gibberish.^^

What the deep road in Trespasser showed is the dwarves and elves worked together at one point.It's dwarven thaig architecture + elven gods statues down there.Although the dwarves might have been slaves or scared.

 

Lastly there's ths old song :

 

I am empty, filled with nothing(?),
Mythal gives you dreams.
It fills you, within you(?),
Making our leaders proud.
My little stones,
Never yours the sun.
Forever, forever.

 

Ir sa tel'nal,
Mythal las ma theneras.
Ir san'a emma.
Him solas evanuris.
Da'durgen'lin,
Banal malas elgara.
Bellanaris, bellanaris.

 

It talks about someone being empty and Mythal correcting the issues , and the Evanuris are happy.It could be an elf , it could be a dwarf we're talking here.I imagine it could be the elves , and that's why Mythal was so eager to slay Titans.

Also one thing to point out it seems in elven language "Elgara " means the Sun and "Elgar" means spirits , and in this song the author tells the dwarves they will never get the "Sun".

If the elves view this metaphorical Sun as something close to spirit , it's possible it's something close to the fade.And the "never yours the sun " is about the Dwarves never being able to get in touch with the Fade.

 

[myahele]

Additionally, those "locks" in the above mural look alot like the Ancient Elvhen locks we see in Solasan/ Dark Futures used by Alexius:

 

That and I don't think what Tamlen saw in the Eluvian was the Black City; if anything it was either a Darkspawn infested Thaig/ underground Elvhen ruin similar to what we see in Trespasser. We know the Elvhen at least built underground post Mythal killing a Titan.

[Reznore57]

Additionally, those "locks" in the above mural look alot like the Ancient Elvhen locks we see in Solasan/ Dark Futures used by Alexius:

 

That and I don't think what Tamlen saw in the Eluvian was the Black City; if anything it was either a Darkspawn infested Thaig/ underground Elvhen ruin similar to what we see in Trespasser. We know the Elvhen at least built underground post Mythal killing a Titan.

 

Oh yeah those doors.

And these doors have their own weirdness.

The keys to open those are somewhat made of  lyrium.Because in the dark future , Alexius used one , it might be the one from the Oasis actually  he was sending Venatori after the key fragments in redcliffe.

Anyway in the Dark Future the key fragment are now red lyrium fragment.

 

What's even stranger is you can't see those fragment by normal means.The Avaar in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC , had to ask help from a spirit if I remember correctly.

And the Venatori made the skull stuff , with the whole getting a Tranquil posessed then a quick kick in the back of the neck thing.

It seems you need a specific link to the fade to interact with those.

[Gervaise]

I have two theories about the Black City buzzing around in my head at present.    The first is connection with the fact that the Magisters were said to have used huge amounts of lyrium and a big blood sacrifice to open their portal in the Fade.   When we go to the site of the Conclave explosion we find red lyrium and Solas mentions that it may have been corrupted by magic.   Oghran tells us in DAO that the whole mountain was a huge lyrium deposit,  so I figure that the big magical explosion, plus the effective blood sacrifice of the thousands of people who died, corrupted the lyrium, turning it red.    Bianca says that red lyrium has the Blight, so when the original Magisters used the blood sacrifice and lyrium, they altered the later into red lyrium which then corrupted the Golden City.

 

The second theory concerns Corypheus' assertion that they didn't create the darkness but discovered it.   There is also an old legend that says Dumat created the Blight (for this read unidentified ancient being as we have various candidates for the old gods at present).    There is also the text in Trespasser that says the elves sealed away something horrific in the depths of the earth.   Mythal is frequently attributed with being the builder of cities.   So the original City of Arlathan would have been one of her creations and likely the Golden City.  She subdued (if not killed) at least one (possibly more) Titan.   In the Descent the city inside the Titan looks much as elven cities described.   The Titan is also the source of lyrium, which was probably used in the construction of her cities.   The Golden City is said to have seven gates, which would make sense if Mythal actually lived there but there was one for each of the other gods to visit.    It was originally constructed at such a time when there was no Veil, so existed in both Thedas and the Fade.    I wonder if the murder of Mythal corrupted the lyrium in the foundations of the city (earth side) but Solas throwing up the Veil stopped it from spreading to the bit now in the Fade (which remained Golden).    Then when the Magisters opened a portal to the Golden City, they effectively re-connected it with the Thedas side, allowing it to be corrupted and then when the Fade spat them out again, they found themselves deep underground in the earth bound Black City.  Temporarily breaching the Veil also broke the seals on this bit of the city, allowing the corruption to escape.   This would also explain how there were so many darkspawn so soon after their actions, because they were already there, trapped (probably a mixture of trapped elves and dwarves).

 

I veer towards the second explanation, or something like it, because I'm pretty sure now that whatever occurred the Blight was not created by the Maker to punish the errant Magisters and that they did in fact simply "discover" the darkness.

[myahele]

What's very interesting is that Corypheus used "Claw of Dumat" which can be seen (and in many ammount) in ancient Dwarven Thaigs like the Primeval Thaig and Heidrun Thaig - of which an empty Old God prison was discovered underneath by Legion of the Dead in WoL2

[Heimdall]

What's very interesting is that Corypheus used "Claw of Dumat" which can be seen (and in many ammount) in ancient Dwarven Thaigs like the Primeval Thaig and Heidrun Thaig - 

Still not convinced this is anything but a reuse of art assets.

[Dean_the_Young]

Still not convinced this is anything but a reuse of art assets.

 

In most cases I'd agree, but Primevial Thaig was so unique and sploilery that they actually had specially named asset names and such in the game files.

 

Dragon Age is one of the few series where art assets are often a deliberate lore-depication device. Inquisition in particular made a point of it.

[In Exile]

We need to distinguish between the Fade as it existed before the Veil and Evanuris were trapped (where it was not a place) and the Fade as it exists after the Veil was raised.

Solas altered the world. He split the ancient elves in two. He split spirits in two. He took something that was part of the fabric of the world and locked it away - not just the Evanuris but then Fade.

I stand by my original theory: the place modern Thedas calls "the Fade" is two things at the same time: an elven pocket dimension no different from the library, and the part of the fabric of the world that locked away by Solas.

[Reznore57]

We need to distinguish between the Fade as it existed before the Veil and Evanuris were trapped (where it was not a place) and the Fade as it exists after the Veil was raised.

Solas altered the world. He split the ancient elves in two. He split spirits in two. He took something that was part of the fabric of the world and locked it away - not just the Evanuris but then Fade.

I stand by my original theory: the place modern Thedas calls "the Fade" is two things at the same time: an elven pocket dimension no different from the library, and the part of the fabric of the world that locked away by Solas.

 

Guess it's possible , it would explain the fact we can walk in there , and the working Eluvians.

Still there's the city in the middle of it , and even if it was build in some crossroad , it doesn't explain why only the city is still standing , and spirits and demons being scared to go near it, etc , etc.

[Xerrai]

We need to distinguish between the Fade as it existed before the Veil and Evanuris were trapped (where it was not a place) and the Fade as it exists after the Veil was raised.

Solas altered the world. He split the ancient elves in two. He split spirits in two. He took something that was part of the fabric of the world and locked it away - not just the Evanuris but then Fade.

I stand by my original theory: the place modern Thedas calls "the Fade" is two things at the same time: an elven pocket dimension no different from the library, and the part of the fabric of the world that locked away by Solas.

Well it would certainly be in line with the "the veil is not really just a barrier between the Fade and Here" thing in lore. We are told to think of the veil as a metaphysical barrier between two states of being and yet many of us (me included) still think of it as a barrier dividing two distinct separate places anyway. I really need to get that better ingrained in my head because it really changes the angle you can look at things.

 

That being said, I am not sure if it would apply to the "spirits" of elves. But I suppose it differs depending on what "spirit" actually means to everyone (magic? their actual life force? their emotions?). There was definitely a disconnect between elves and how they mentally/physically interacted with the veil-raised world.

[ModernAcademic]

 

The Black City seems to be where the Evanuris were trapped by Solas, and that's quite important, because we know it was corrupted before Cory and co. got there. After all, it is no coincidence that The Old Gods are said to begin whispering to humanity from the Black City only 50 years after the elves first notice the Quickening, which we know was a side effect of Solas's master strike: the creation of The Veil.

 

If the Old Gods were just the corrupted Evanuris, or something far worse whispering through them, what are those big buried dragons then? Well, here is an interesting in-game dialogue about that:

 

- Cassandra: so what is it (the red lyrium dragon), then? A corrupted dragon, simply another darkspawn?

- Solas: it is connected to Corypheus. Such relation goes beyond mere control - it is a bond.

- Cassandra: it makes you wonder if that's all the archdemons are: pets to beings who no longer exist.

- Solas: I wouldn't go as far as that. This dragon is a replica spawned from a creature who aspires to greatness, no more.

 

Solas is basically telling us that Corypheus was just copying the boundary between the Evanuris and their draconian safeguards: the Old Gods. Each one of those beings holds a small piece of the soul of a trapped Evanuris, and the darkspawn are attracted to them, so... well, draw your own conclusions.

 

There is still something weird about the Black City that I cannot explain: the fact that it seems to be both in the Fade and deep underground, somehow. According to chantry lore, the seven magisters fell from the sky and went unto hiding in the deep roads, but taking into account what we know about eluvians and also some cryptic codex entries (including 

 

 

 

Maybe there's an entrance to the Black City from underground. Didn't the dwarves worship the image of Mythal? So perhaps they also went into the Fade via their mental connection to the Titan.

 

Maybe the creation of red lyrium happened after the event assaulted Arlathan and it became dark. Since Titans may have a strange connection to the Fade - since it is their blood - lyrium - which enables magic to flow into in the world, this corruption spread to some of the Titans and their blood became corrupt. Blue lyrium became red lyrium and any dragon hidden in their underground prison was also infected by it, thus becoming an Archdemon.

 

Those that weren't infected, but were slumbering like the rest of their brothers were eventually found by the darkspawn and caused the next four Blights.

 

 

 

That's just me theorizing on top of the available information contained in the lore, anyway. I'm not sure of anything.

 

And the more BW takes long to present a central theory that will explain every incoherent bit of this Taint/Fade/Black City/Evanuris/Magisters/Titan/Eluvian mess, the more I feel I'll be 50 when the devs finally manage to make sense of all of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: don't know if anyone will bother to read it, but here goes: http://forum.bioware...ade-and-thedas/

[Feral'Hen]

Maybe the creation of red lyrium happened after the event assaulted Arlathan and it became dark. Since Titans may have a strange connection to the Fade - since it is their blood - lyrium - which enables magic to flow into in the world, this corruption spread to some of the Titans and their blood became corrupt. Blue lyrium became red lyrium and any dragon hidden in their underground prison was also infected by it, thus becoming an Archdemon.

 

Those that weren't infected, but were slumbering like the rest of their brothers were eventually found by the darkspawn and caused the next four Blights.

 

That's just me theorizing on top of the available information contained in the lore, anyway. I'm not sure of anything.

 

And the more BW takes long to present a central theory that will explain every incoherent bit of this Taint/Fade/Black City/Evanuris/Magisters/Titan/Eluvian mess, the more I feel I'll be 50 when the devs finally manage to make sense of all of it.

Lyrium seems to be the same thing that adra is in Pillars of Eternity: an organic crystalline material that can be found growing up through the ground in veins, containing souls pumped by an unknown source at the core of the planet. Titans are indeed fueled by it, and that makes red lyrium even more disturbing, because its literally made of living people, not just from souls like regular lyrium. Maybe the evanuris found a way to feed living people to a titan in order to produce stronger lyrium, and the memmories and desires contained in the blood of those being sacrificed poisoned the titan or even the very Stone. Who knows... sadly there is no new DA material being developed that I know of, not even books, and that's a little worrying...