266 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

So you agree that Bioware is modelling thedas after the entire world? Rivain is Africa and Tevinter the middle-East and India? It's all right for you but retconning what they previously wanted their world to be ie Europe and don't you say they didn't because the lore clearly shares similarities between the states of Thedas to Europe.

 

"Retconning" skin color is inconsequential and it's ridiculous you care about it. It comes across prejudiced. Especially when you consider that Bioware has to portray this world on varying game engines with varying limitations. As they get more tools, it's obvious they'll refine their world even more. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No they weren't.

Yes they were. Bioware since the days of DAO stated as much. 

 

Here is Isabela's DAO face model without the lights from the Pearl affecting her. 

 

Spoiler

[Dutch's Ghost]

Lmao what? Halward, Krem, Fenris, and various concept art...

Krem was not dark, Fenris is an elf. Halward You're right on that. So 2 people out of dozens...

[Master Warder Z_]

Also I felt like WOT 2 was poorly written

 

That's a common gripe.

 

Because it was.

[Dutch's Ghost]

Bluntly...I don't agree and you haven't even come within shouting distance of proving this assertion. But I'll humor you. Let's suppose they did indeed "retcon" it. They changed their minds or something and decided to add more dark-skinned people.

So?

....

Why is that bad? Seriously, what is the actual problem here?

Clear political correctness to add in more poc.

[Addictress]

"Has always been"

Not it hasn't. If it has then they did a poor job of conveying it in DAO and DA2. Also places like Spain, Italy etc.. Are not as dark as say India or the middle-East. I'm not exaggerating when I say Darinius looked like a very dark Hindu priest of sorts.

I'm confused on how Bioware's rendition of Thedas, first it was modelled after most of Europe now it seems like the world.

 

I concede you're right that they did make them darker around Inquisition. But I dunno, the Origins magister struck me as a dark kind of guy. Not South Indian dark, but he gave me dark vibes.

 

 

So maybe they didn't consistently have them super dark since Origins. Fine. You can't argue though that Dorian and Krem - Dorian who is literally an AMBASSADOR - kind of was a declaration by the artist team that Tevinter had a lot of dark-skinned people in privileged echelons. 

 

Like that's just how we all see Tevinter. That's where they're gonna go with it. I don't really see any big deal.

[Dutch's Ghost]

"Retconning" skin color is inconsequential and it's ridiculous you care about it. It comes across prejudiced. Especially when you consider that Bioware has to portray this world on varying game engines with varying limitations. As they get more tools, it's obvious they'll refine their world even more.

Well do you agree they are modelling thedas after the entire world instead of Europe as the lore in the beginning exhibited?

[Addictress]

Clear political correctness to add in more poc.

You're part of this troubling segment of the population who some jumped from point A and then missed steps B and C and are now at D, saying "hey I don't get D"

 

Because you missed B and C

 

And all the philosophical discussions and reasoning behind why we're at D

[vertigomez]

Krem was not dark

According to whom?

Fenris is an elf.

How is that relevant? He still has skin, you know.

Halward You're right on that. So 2 people out of dozens...

And you've still failed to explain why it matters.

[Ms. Sarsaparilla]

Clear political correctness to add in more poc.

 

So? Again, why is this a problem?

[Dutch's Ghost]

That's a common gripe.

Because it was.

And people complained about WOT 1 which I liked, wot 2 was badly done.

[Addictress]

~~oh noes, why do we have to be PC~~~

 

It's like

 

Do you even know... how PC came to be? Like why is there suddenly a stigma and PC is just this brand which reduces all the struggle and conversation we had previously to establish WHY PC came to be?

 

No one is on the same page. No.  *tosses papers out the window* I'm sorry but everything falls apart here. Right here.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"Retconning" skin color is inconsequential and it's ridiculous you care about it. It comes across prejudiced. Especially when you consider that Bioware has to portray this world on varying game engines with varying limitations. As they get more tools, it's obvious they'll refine their world even more. 

Yep. They said the Eclipse engine, the engine that DAO and DA2 used, had problems with properly displaying darker skin tones. Now that they are using the Frostbite engine, they don't have that issue anymore.

[Dutch's Ghost]

I concede you're right that they did make them darker around Inquisition. But I dunno, the Origins magister struck me as a dark kind of guy. Not South Indian dark, but he gave me dark vibes.



So maybe they didn't consistently have them super dark since Origins. Fine. You can't argue though that Dorian and Krem - Dorian who is literally an AMBASSADOR - kind of was a declaration by the artist team that Tevinter had a lot of dark-skinned people in privileged echelons.

Like that's just how we all see Tevinter. That's where they're gonna go with it. I don't really see any big deal.

Well then, it is what it is. I was just surprised when I saw Darinius.

[Almostfaceman]

Well do you agree they are modelling thedas after the entire world instead of Europe as the lore in the beginning exhibited?

 

I don't care. I think they portrayed Thedas the best they could with the game engine they had. I've seen them add to the details... what you would call "retconning" as they go along. If we go by Dragon Age: Origins, Thedas is one big giant brown blob.

[Dutch's Ghost]

Yep. They said the Eclipse engine, the engine that DAO and DA2 used, had problems with properly displaying darker skin tones. Now that they are using the Frostbite engine, they don't have that issue anymore.

Why is half of Ferelden black then? Have you seen the NPCS in the hinterlands?

[Abyss108]

Why do you care so much? 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well do you agree they are modelling thedas after the entire world instead of Europe as the lore in the beginning exhibited?

You know Europe had a lot of dark-skinned people, right? Millennia of trade and other relations with Africa does that. 

 

Why is half of Ferelden black then? Have you seen the NPCS in the hinterlands?

Beause like in the real world, people move. 

 

Plus the background NPCs' appearances are randomly generated. 

[Shechinah]

To be fair, DAO didn't do skin tones too well.

 

It didn't. It really, really didn't.

 

As little as it may mean, I do believe I can vouch that Isabela in Dragon Age: Origins has a skin tone that was on the darker side. It may not look it but I've tried to make enough darker-skinned characters in that game to know the darker end of the skin tone slider.

This I believe is an unmodified Isabela where her skin tone can be seen better than in the Pearl.

http://i168.photobuc...sabella_dao.png

 

______________________________________________________

 

Oh, Hanako beat me to there. Well, I'll leave it regardless because something else had to come of me fighting the character creator all those times.  

[vertigomez]

Why is half of Ferelden black then? Have you seen the NPCS in the hinterlands?

Why does it bother you? If they want their pseudo post-Normans England to have black people, why is it a big deal? It's a fantasy. There are giant, fire-breathing lizards. There are nuggalopes.

[Shechinah]

Krem was not dark, Fenris is an elf. Halward You're right on that. So 2 people out of dozens...

 

What does Fenris being an elf has to do with anything?
 

[Captain Wiseass]

"Swarthying"? Seriously?

 

In any case, once I figured out the whole "we're in a southern hemisphere" thing, I figured Tevinter was in a Mediterranean/subtropical climate and thus had the expected range of skin tones. But then, I actually know things about geography and demographics and what places I do not live are like.

[Shechinah]

Beause like in the real world, people move. 

 

Plus the background NPCs' appearances are randomly generated. 

 

Not to mention I think quite a number of people died during the Blight in Fereldan so it wouldn't be too unlikely I think for Fereldan to encourage immigration to help rebuild and replenish the country. Some people who fled Fereldan may also have married and potentially brought their now more diverse family back.
 

[Cyrus Amell]

Clear political correctness to add in more poc.

 

Of all the things Bioware has done to the Dragon Age franchise (especially Dragon Age 2) this is somehow a point of contention?

 

Was it weird that your Cousland in the Human Noble in Origins could be black and not look at all like your mother and father? Yes, yes it was (barring possible genetic boomerang or adoption). They fixed that quibble with Hawke's family because now they are based on key player decisions when modifying character features. Outside this single scenario, there is no cause for such arguments. 

 

Otherwise, there is nothing wrong or historically inaccurate about multiple ethnic groups coexisting within a single local even during the middle ages. Although in the Dragon Age setting it appears that the elves faced the brunt of the racism, and we are likely in the Late Middle Ages - maybe just before the Renaissance. 

 

Between common migration and intermarriages among houses of nobility across the continent there really is no reason why skin tone should be allocated to only a few specified groups. Besides, plenty of portrayed Tevinter are not like Dorian - it's just that not all are pasty mages with close-cropped family trees like the European Hapsburgs. Maybe Dorian has some Antivan in him, or he could even be distantly related to the famous Rivaini Queen Asha Campana. But I don't think they actually are "swarthying" up Tevinter so much as just making interesting characters. 

[Dutch's Ghost]

You know Europe had a lot of dark-skinned people, right? Millennia of trade and other relations with Africa does that.


Beause like in the real world, people move.

Plus the background NPCs' appearances are randomly generated.

So Thedas is like the real world now? If that is the case why is Rivain(sub-Saharan Africa) so close in proximity to Ferelden(England)??

Where did these black fereldans come from or are fereldans just a mix of skin tones too?