292 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabooooom]

*posts in Mass Effect Andromeda forum*

*says Mass Effect should stay in the MW*

You're a few years late to the party, man.

[Obliviousmiss]

 

This is a mistake. ME needs to stay in the Milky Way. The galaxy is just as an imprtant character in the game as Sheperd, Liara and Tali. Imagine if they made a Star Wars movie but decided to move the entire plot away from this particular galaxy far, far away and instead have it take place in a completely new galaxy with a new backstory and new characters. It just wouldn't be Star Wars. Same with Mass Effect. That we won't be able to go to places like Palaven, Tuchanka and the Citadel in this new ME just feels... wrong. 

To me the only option is this: Retcon the ending of ME3. I think a lot of players/buyers would understand if Bioware explained that they had to do this in order for the franchise to stay alive. Better to change the ending than to not have any new ME games. Maybe Andromeda will be a great game but to me it won't be a ME-game. ME belongs in the Milky Way.

 

It's a little late for that. Devs are playing the game.

 

 

Let us move on, now.

[Killroy]

Only if your EMS is high. If your EMS is really low the mass relays are permanently damaged and the Normandy doesn't get off that planet.
 
Don't see what's so bad about a technological dark age. Even the concept artists were hinting at the permanent mass relay destruction and life without the Citadel. It wasn't as bleak as people made it out to be.

You're arguing against things I never said. And half of the galaxy was stranded in our solar system without access to the food/supplies they need.

[Arcian]

You're arguing against things I never said. And half of the galaxy was stranded in our solar system without access to the food/supplies they need.

Well, that's technically untrue on two points, one it's not half the galaxy, it's just the entire combined military forces of the galaxy, and two, they still have conventional FTL. It's also possible that one of the liveships the quarians sent to Earth have the capacity to produce dextro food for the turians and quarians.

 

Even so, they're pretty f**ked.

[Kabooooom]

Well, that's technically untrue on two points, one it's not half the galaxy, it's just the entire combined military forces of the galaxy, and two, they still have conventional FTL. It's also possible that one of the liveships the quarians sent to Earth have the capacity to produce dextro food for the turians and quarians.

Even so, they're pretty f**ked.

Still, there would be a lot of starvation, no doubt. And even with FTL, major problems arise. Back in the day, I calculated that it'd take the Quarians the better part of 40 years to make it back to Rannoch (less if you calculate a straight line from Sol to Rannoch, but they would have to travel a curved path probably 10-15,000 Ly away from the galactic core since the lore says travel there is too dangerous).

And the time isnt the major issue - discharge is, just like the journey to Andromeda. Much of that journey would be through unmapped space between the relay network nodes. This isnt a huge issue, because the majority of star systems contain gas giants for discharge (the Quarian fleet couldn't land on a terrestrial world to do it). But between the galactic arms, stars become comparatively sparse. One wrong navigation decision and your entire fleet is fried. This is one of the reasons why the FTL voyage to a Ilos was considered too dangerous by academic groups that wanted to reach the world for study.

So yeah, they are all totally and completely screwed without the relay network. Or rather - most of them are totally and completely screwed. If starvation doesn't get them, the long journey home just might.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, that's technically untrue on two points, one it's not half the galaxy, it's just the entire combined military forces of the galaxy, and two, they still have conventional FTL. It's also possible that one of the liveships the quarians sent to Earth have the capacity to produce dextro food for the turians and quarians.

 

Even so, they're pretty f**ked.

According to the cutscene, at least two Quarian Liveships are with the galactic fleet during the Battle of Earth. 

 

[Malanek]

How can people be so worried about things in a post-destroy scenario in the milky way yet shrug at the technical challenge of trying to engineer a ship able to traverse between the Milky way and Andromeda and then establish civilisation there in an extremely limited space of time?
 

On the original topic, I never really wanted to leave the Milky Way behind. I think the state that destroy left the galaxy in would be fascinating to see what happens next from a political point of view. But Bioware seem hellbent on not assigning a default import state to any game and they simply cannot write a sensible story taking all four possible choices from the end of ME3 into account. So we get Andromeda, and even though it isn't my preference I think they can still tell a good story in this setting.

 

The decision was made years ago, and although it is possible they will revisit the Milky Way in the future, debate isn't going to change the setting of the next game. Get on board or forget about it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How can people be so worried about things in a post-destroy scenario in the milky way yet shrug at the technical challenge of trying to engineer a ship able to traverse between the Milky way and Andromeda and then establish civilisation there in an extremely limited space of time?

Pretty much. If we could build an intergalactic capable vessel before or during the events of the Shepard Trilogy, we would definitely be able to build ships that can traverse our galaxy without the drive discharge issue or the use of Mass Relays after the Reaper War.

 

On the original topic, I never really wanted to leave the Milky Way behind. I think the state that destroy left the galaxy in would be fascinating to see what happens next from a political point of view. But Bioware seem hellbent on not assigning a default import state to any game and they simply cannot write a sensible story taking all four possible choices from the end of ME3 into account. So we get Andromeda, and even though it isn't my preference I think they can still tell a good story in this setting.

Yeah, the galactic restoration period had a lot of storytelling potential in it, especially if they could incorporate the endings into it. 

[Shinobu]

I hope Andromeda is awesome and we all love it. But if it does terribly, I wouldn't mind going back to the Milky Way.

 

It's too expensive a gamble to actually happen, but I think it would be interesting to have a sequence of separate sequels to ME3, one for each ending. They could explore how different ending choices shape the galaxy.

 

Destroy could be post-apocalyptic and the plot could be an Oregon Trail of getting the dextros back to their planets at FTL before the liveships give out. Protecting the wagon train from raiding Batarians and trying to fix the relays along the way could be fun.

 

Control could be the most like the original trilogy, with fixed relays and Citadel. Maybe GodShepard causes the reapers to reconstitute their original alien species, which adds new conflicts, or maybe the Leviathans decide it's time to take their rightful place as rulers of the galaxy.

 

Synthesis could be the least like the original trilogy with everyone adjusting to being organic/synthetic hybrids. It could have a smaller scale and a cyberpunk feel since the synthetic/organic conflict would be resolved in theory. However, that doesn't stop sentients from being d*cks to each other. Perhaps slavers or evil corporations could be taking advantage of the bewildered populace. New abilities could include hacking other people, downloading or uploading one's consciousness into various chassis, etc.

 

Refuse could use IT and finish the original conflict of the ME universe (Milky way vs. Reapers) with a more conventional victory. Or Refuse could be the tale of the last remnants of the MW races trying to scatter Liara's time capsules before being wiped out.

 

As it stands now, the endings of ME3 are very thematically different but they feel the same because we never get to experience living in the altered galaxy. While I don't like the morality of some of the endings, I would certainly play games extrapolated from them, especially if it means getting to spend more time with the characters I'm attached to.

[Killroy]

Well, that's technically untrue on two points, one it's not half the galaxy, it's just the entire combined military forces of the galaxy, and two, they still have conventional FTL. It's also possible that one of the liveships the quarians sent to Earth have the capacity to produce dextro food for the turians and quarians.
 
Even so, they're pretty f**ked.

 

Not pre-Extended Cut they didn't. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not pre-Extended Cut they didn't. 

Yes they do. Even without Mass Relays, the ships of the Mass Effect universe are capable of FTL. It's half of how we travel around the Milky Way. We use Mass Relays to go from cluster to cluster, and then the ship's conventional FTL to get to any star in the cluster we are in.

[Arcian]

Yes they do. Even without Mass Relays, the ships of the Mass Effect universe are capable of FTL. It's half of how we travel around the Milky Way. We use Mass Relays to go from cluster to cluster, and then the ship's conventional FTL to get to any star in the cluster we are in.

Killroy is technically correct (the best kind of correct), pre-Extended Cut Destroy results in the destruction of all technology, including FTL drives.

[Killroy]

Yes they do. Even without Mass Relays, the ships of the Mass Effect universe are capable of FTL. It's half of how we travel around the Milky Way. We use Mass Relays to go from cluster to cluster, and then the ship's conventional FTL to get to any star in the cluster we are in.

 

If the RGB wave didn't wipe out all Reaper-based tech, including FTL drives, when why did the Normandy get boned and stranded? If that's not the explanation then the entire sequence with the Normandy is stupid and superfluous.

[Killroy]

Killroy is technically correct (the best kind of correct), pre-Extended Cut Destroy results in the destruction of all technology, including FTL drives.

 

All of the endings resulted in that outcome since the Normandy's drives were destroyed in all of them.

[Arcian]

All of the endings resulted in that outcome since the Normandy's drives were destroyed in all of them.

Which really makes no sense since Reapers are shown happily flying around as the arms of the Citadel closes in the Control ending.

[Kabooooom]

If the RGB wave didn't wipe out all Reaper-based tech, including FTL drives, when why did the Normandy get boned and stranded? If that's not the explanation then the entire sequence with the Normandy is stupid and superfluous.

It wasn't stupid and superfluous in the first place?

It could be featured in a public service announcement. Friends dont let friends write horribly nonsensical video game endings. Use the buddy system or you too may think that crashing the Normandy on an uninhabited world as some sort of vague Adam and Eve repopulating the cosmos ending is a good idea.

[DaemionMoadrin]

This is shaping up to be a very entertaining thread. Go on, amuse me. I'll check back in tomorrow morning... don't you dare get this thread locked by then.

[KaiserShep]

Killroy is technically correct (the best kind of correct), pre-Extended Cut Destroy results in the destruction of all technology, including FTL drives.

 

 

We don't see anything about FTL drives; we only see the wave destroying the relays and Citadel. The ending cutscene is so brief that we don't really get an explanation for anything at all. FTL could very well be intact, but made sort of irrelevant for anyone that lives on the far end of the Galaxy from the Sol system (Heh, SOL system)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Killroy is technically correct (the best kind of correct), pre-Extended Cut Destroy results in the destruction of all technology, including FTL drives.

If it did that, then nobody on the Normandy would have survived since any kind of way to slow the Normandy down enough to crash land relatively intact and have survivors would have shut down. Instead the Normandy would have hit the planet at near the speed of light after being knocked out of FTL and the impact would have been a global extinction event on the planet they land on at best.

[Arcian]

If it did that, then nobody on the Normandy would have survived since any kind of way to slow the Normandy down enough to crash land relatively intact and have survivors would have shut down. Instead the Normandy would have hit the planet at near the speed of light after being knocked out of FTL and the impact would have been a global extinction event on the planet they land on at best.

Hey, I never said it made sense.

[Malanek]

Killroy is technically correct (the best kind of correct), pre-Extended Cut Destroy results in the destruction of all technology, including FTL drives.

Don't really agree. I must admit I don't really recall the original ending perfectly but I do recall the arguments that started immediately after it revolving on what it meant. It was nonsensical, vague and was heavily open to interpretation. However even if it did fry every ftl drive in the galaxy, they can still be rebuilt.

[AlanC9]

Still, there would be a lot of starvation, no doubt. And even with FTL, major problems arise. Back in the day, I calculated that it'd take the Quarians the better part of 40 years to make it back to Rannoch (less if you calculate a straight line from Sol to Rannoch, but they would have to travel a curved path probably 10-15,000 Ly away from the galactic core since the lore says travel there is too dangerous).
And the time isnt the major issue - discharge is, just like the journey to Andromeda. Much of that journey would be through unmapped space between the relay network nodes. This isnt a huge issue, because the majority of star systems contain gas giants for discharge (the Quarian fleet couldn't land on a terrestrial world to do it). But between the galactic arms, stars become comparatively sparse. One wrong navigation decision and your entire fleet is fried. This is one of the reasons why the FTL voyage to a Ilos was considered too dangerous by academic groups that wanted to reach the world for study.
So yeah, they are all totally and completely screwed without the relay network. Or rather - most of them are totally and completely screwed. If starvation doesn't get them, the long journey home just might.

I still don't see where the starvation part comes from. Any one of the liveships which survives could support all the turians and quarians in Sol system, unless we make very strange assumptions about crew sizes and ground forces deployed.

As for the trip home being dangerous... who says they have to be stupid enough to attempt it? Sensible turians will just look for a dextro world within FTL range. Quarians will just go back to living the way they've been living for centuries.

[Kabooooom]

I still don't see where the starvation part comes from. Any one of the liveships which survives could support all the turians and quarians in Sol system, unless we make very strange assumptions about crew sizes and ground forces deployed.

As for the trip home being dangerous... who says they have to be stupid enough to attempt it? Sensible turians will just look for a dextro world within FTL range. Quarians will just go back to living the way they've been living for centuries.

I will grant you that a single liveship may be able to support the Turians and Quarians, especially if the Quarians dumped a massive number of their noncombatants on Rannoch first (presumably a not insignificant and likely majority fraction of their 17 million population).

And the latter is a reasonable point as well - they dont have to be stupid enough to attempt it. Because it would be really, really stupid for the reasons I stated.

One thing though - the Quarians, by their own estimates, were likely going to go extinct within 80 years if they didn't find a new homeworld. This is one of their stated reasons for the desperation of retaking Rannoch. Their ships were failing, their resources (despite their best efforts) were not sufficient, their population was at the mercy of common colds that sweep through the fleet. They couldn't do what they were doing forever. Indeed, without the relay network, their chances of finding a suitable world within FTL range are basically zero.

No one gets screwed harder than the Quarians with the original ME3 ending.

[DaemionMoadrin]

One thing though - the Quarians, by their own estimates, were likely going to go extinct within 80 years if they didn't find a new homeworld. This is one of their stated reasons for the desperation of retaking Rannoch. Their ships were failing, their resources (despite their best efforts) were not sufficient, their population was at the mercy of common colds that sweep through the fleet. They couldn't do what they were doing forever. Indeed, without the relay network, their chances of finding a suitable world within FTL range are basically zero.

No one gets screwed harder than the Quarians with the original ME3 ending.

 

First time I heard of that. 17 million people don't go extinct within a few decades, they'd need centuries for that (at least). A cold sweeping through the fleet would do exactly nothing. Each quarian comes seperately packaged, there is almost no vector for infections outside of suit ruptures and spoiled food.

Not once did I hear anything about their resources not being sufficient, they were certaintly tight but they were never starving or lacking fuel.

[AlanC9]

One thing though - the Quarians, by their own estimates, were likely going to go extinct within 80 years if they didn't find a new homeworld. This is one of their stated reasons for the desperation of retaking Rannoch. Their ships were failing, their resources (despite their best efforts) were not sufficient, their population was at the mercy of common colds that sweep through the fleet. They couldn't do what they were doing forever. Indeed, without the relay network, their chances of finding a suitable world within FTL range are basically zero.

Can you source that?

And remember, with the vast majority of the quarian population safe on Rannoch, the problem of maintaining the few quarians in Sol system is much more manageable.