61 réponses à ce sujet

[GoldenGail3]

And that is fine, but are you sure this isn't the wrong thread?

No, I just don't have an elven warden to speak about so I spoke about my Elven Quiz instead.

[straykat]

I'm sort of doing my new "canon" run as well, but male CE. After years of committing to the male Dalish, I've suddenly warmed up to male CE. If it's easier to do the outsider thing and romance Morrigan on a Dalish, I think it might be just as easy to play the Andrastrian and Shartan thing with Leliana if a CE. I also wanted to be a warrior who steals and does Couldry's quests. It makes more sense this way. I think Dalish hate thieves (unless it's Morrigan apparently..lol).

 

Right now, I'm actually doing Nature of the Beast. It's kind of neat to be the CE who's a little more on the outside. I'm more used to playing a Dalish.

[Apo]

I also wanted to be a warrior who steals and does Couldry's quests.

 

Isn't it a rogue exclusive quests ?

[straykat]

Isn't it a rogue exclusive quests ?

 

You just need stealing (or stealth as a rogue). Or both.

 

But I tend to think of CE as a rogue. While I played a Dalish warrior. But lately I rethought it.. since WoT 2 said elves have tales of many trickster warriors and many "Shartans" leading little rebellions and such. It seems like a good fit now.

[Ghost Gal]

I would personally love to crown Alistair without HAVING to "harden" him to keep from getting dumped, and I'd love it if he had the guts after being crowned to decide not to marry so we could remain in a committed relationship (even if we can't marry) without my non-Cousland becoming his bit on the side, but, as you said, "that feeling when you can't have everything you want."

[Qun00]

Leliana is introduced as "mistress to the prince consort of Ferelden" in WE/WH when that is the case, so I suppose it still is acknowledged as a real relationship by the general public.

[straykat]

Welp. So my CE just sacrificed himself too. It's funny how this game can still bring a tear to the eye. It's sad seeing Cyrion and Leliana at the funeral. And Marethari as well, if Dalish.

[Ghost Gal]

Leliana is introduced as "mistress to the prince consort of Ferelden" in WE/WH when that is the case, so I suppose it still is acknowledged as a real relationship by the general public.

 

And yet, in a playthrough where the Warden became his mistress, King Alistair and Teagan talk about her like she's a dirty little secret that needs to be kept under the rug, saying things like "you-know-who is here" and "don't tell my wife."

 

Actually, I've been becoming increasingly dissatisfied with... pretty much every endgame for my Wardens. An ideal worldstate would be if my City Elf could crown Alistair without getting dumped (I know she can't marry him and become queen--never thought it was on the table--but it'd be nice not to get dumped like a cow pie), have him decide either not to get married or not mention it so I can imagine it wasn't a big deal, then after the Blight he'd give my gal the boon of being the Bann of the Denerim Alienage, and then he becomes the beloved people's king while my gal uses her smarts and influence as his lover (which I think his lover can do even if they aren't his chancellor) to help make life better for Ferelden's elves.

 

I mean hey, King Alistair making the new Hahren (Shianni) a member of court + my gal as the Bann of the Alienage (an official title now that means she can pass it on after she dies) = Shianni and Tabris becoming wise-cracking female elven nuisances in a court filled with human nobles. I mean, they'd probably get out-voted on everything (room full of human nobles would drown out the voice of the one or two elves int he room), but it'd be fun!

 

Shianni: All right, how many of you shems want to pass this law I'm proposing to clean up the alienage wells? (Someone keeps hiding bodies in them.)

*silence*

Shianni: Oh, come on! Anybody?

*glares all around*

Tabris: *grinning* All right! Filibuster time. Now let me tell you the story of how your king and I collected the five armies needed to stop the Blight.

*everyone groans*

Tabris: Come on, everybody! You know we're not leaving until we get this law passed.

What's-his-face: This is outrageous!

What's-her-face: We have more pressing matters to attend to than the plight of a few dozen elves!

Tabris: King Alistair?!

King Alistair (not looking up from his paper): Whatever you say, honey.

Shianni and Tabris: *fist pump* Yes!

Denerim court: *groans*

 

(Aw man, he'd be voted out of office in a year flat, but it'd be fun to imagine.)

 

Actually, as time has gone on and I've had more time to reflect, I'm seriously annoyed by Anora promising to help the elves to a City Elf but then cracking down on them instead. I guess a second-best ideal playthrough would be to have Alistair marry Anora, harden him so I don't get dumped (bleh), then become his mistress (double bleh). King Alistair helps elves, his increased competence means stuff gets done, Queen Anora pandering to the nobles keeps them from booting out the elf-friendly king, and my gal being Bann of the Denerim Alienage (with a monarch who's good to elves) gets to help her people. I don't like the dirty little mistress part, but it'd suck less with a gal I know I don't like, rather than some imagined gal who's innocent of the lot thrown to her.

[straykat]

I think Anora cares somewhat, but she's out of her element.. that's why it goes bad with just her alone. I don't think it's overt malice or anything.

 

Anyways... I'm only satisfied with my US endings really. Except a dwarf commoner who lived and redeemed Loghain. And since she's hooked up with Zevran, it doesn't matter. They seem like the type of couple who would run off and do their own thing. I don't need to see either one again.

[GoldenGail3]

I think Anora cares somewhat, but she's out of her element.. that's why it goes bad with just her alone. I don't think it's overt malice or anything.

 

Anyways... I'm only satisfied with my US endings really. Except a dwarf commoner who lived and redeemed Loghain. And since she's hooked up with Zevran, it doesn't matter. They seem like the type of couple who would run off and do their own thing. I don't need to see either one again.

I was happy with all of my Morrigan romance, lol.

[straykat]

I was happy with all of my Morrigan romance, lol.

 

I would have been happier if the Warden had a bigger part in the story. I had a Cousland/Morrigan playthrough and didn't like where it ended up.

[Ghost Gal]

I think Anora cares somewhat, but she's out of her element.. that's why it goes bad with just her alone. I don't think it's overt malice or anything.

 

I think she only pretends to care.

 

Before the Landsmeet, she brags to a City Elf what a great queen she is, what a great job she's done ruling, and how much she loves and is loved by her subjects. Any City Elf Warden will tell you she did not do a great job running the alienage or endearing herself to her elven subjects those five years before Cailan's death. And thanks to our meeting at Ostagar, we know that Cailan was not aware of nor responsible for how things were in the alienage. So, Anora blithely bragging about what a great queen she is to a city elf who's actually lived under her reign really speaks volumes.

 

Her cracking down on the alienage also shows "she really is her father's daughter after all." For all his talk of keeping Ferelden free, he'll literally sell the elves down the river when things get tough for him. Likewise, Anora brags about how much she loves and is loved by her subjects, but she doesn't actually do anything to make her elven subjects lives bearable (the fact that they riot over food only under her singular rulership points to them either really not getting enough food under her reign, or they feel their voices aren't heard the way they feel heard by Alistair), and won't hesitate to purge/crack down on them the second things get tough for her.

 

I don't think it's out of malice either, but I also don't think there's one ounce of caring.

 

Anyways... I'm only satisfied with my US endings really. Except a dwarf commoner who lived and redeemed Loghain. And since she's hooked up with Zevran, it doesn't matter. They seem like the type of couple who would run off and do their own thing. I don't need to see either one again.

 

I hate the US. Did it with my Dalish Warden who was pretty severely autistic and only want to hunt. She had no LI, no real plans or desires beyond finding time between Warden stuff to craft and set traps and hunt, and she turned down Morrigan's ritual on account of not trusting it, then died and that was the end of that. A simple end to a simple woman.

 

The closest thing to satisfaction I got was my Mage Elf who ran off with Zevran. I also seem them as the type of couple who would run off and do their own thing, although it's tainted by her desire to help mages, which does over like a lead balloon with the Chantry. (Thankfully Zevran's war against the Crows proved more successful.) My Dwarf Commoner also had a winning personality, a happy ascension to glory, and loving romance with Zevran, but she then she refused Morrigan's ritual, so I quit before the end could come. =(

[straykat]

Anora doesn't run Denerim itself either. Why blame her for Vaughn now?

 

People see the worst for some reason. At best, you have to read into everything and be a conspiracy theorist. Because whatever evil traits she might have is not spelled out or apparent. I think if they meant her to be a villain, it'd be easier to understand like Howe or Vaughn. Bioware is not subtle.

 

 

I don't think the US is better than the others, but it was my first playthrough... and stuck with me. And now I like it even more because DAI screwed the Warden up unless they're dead. It's very half-assed.

 

And it's even worse with my bad Cousland.. he lives, but he's still hailed as some hero. He destroyed Redcliffe and made a lot of sinister choices, killed Leliana.. and yet Leliana and Cassandra were looking for him to be Inquisitor. That's so ****** stupid. Better to just delete my save files and forget about it.

[sniper_arrow]

And it's even worse with my bad Cousland.. he lives, but he's still hailed as some hero. He destroyed Redcliffe and made a lot of sinister choices, killed Leliana.. and yet Leliana and Cassandra were looking for him to be Inquisitor. That's so ****** stupid. Better to just delete my save files and forget about it.

 

I would think that Justinia forced Leliana to look for the Warden, regardless of what had happened. 

[Ghost Gal]

I didn't say I thought Anora was a villain. I'm just saying the more time goes on and the more time I have to reflect on this game, the less I like how she handles her elven citizens. I said in my last post that I didn't think she did what he did out of malice, but I don't think she cares either. I think is she doesn't come across as aware of nor caring of the elven citizens'.

And the fact is she DOES promise a city elf she'll help their people if they support her bid for the throne, and if they do then she doesn't deliver. She does the bear minimum by making you bann of the alienage, but only if you ask for it, and then she neglects or ignores her elven citizens so badly that they riot from starvation, then she cracks down on them and goes back to ignoring them. She promises one thing but delivers another: I will hold that against her for it.

Believe it or not, I DID give her the benefit of the doubt for her five-year rule before the Blight on my first playthrough (I wouldn't have made her queen otherwise). I thought, "She probably just didn't know how bad things were, like Cailan. Now that she knows (she's the one who tells you about Unrest in the Alienage) and has promised to help them, things will get better." And I was bitterly disappointed to see they didn't.

And we had Cailan and Alistair as direct comparisons. Cailan didn't know about how bad things were in the alienage, but as soon as he found out he was horrified and promised to look into it. If Alistair is made king, he not only makes you or a loved one bann for asking, makes an elven bann of his own volition when you die, invites the new hahren a seat at court, and his elven citizens are either well-fed or feel well-heard enough under his reign not to riot from hunger. Anora? Nope. Promises to help your people, then ignores them badly enough that they feel the need to riot from hunger, then cracks down on them then goes back to ignoring them. I'm allowed to dislike this aspect of her character and her reign.

I'm not saying I think she's a villain like Vaughan or Howe, but that doesn't mean I have to like how she treats her elven subjects, nor do I have to interpret her negligence as "caring" when I think signs point to her not caring.

Seriously, every single time I express dislike for a character, without fail, like clockwork, someone always accuses me of claiming they're 100% pure evil, or try to defend them by saying they're not complete monsters like Vaughan or Howe. I know they're not complete villains like Vaughan or Howe, but that doesn't mean I have to like them, or like everything about them. I don't have to like how Anora treats her elven subjects, even if she is miles better than Vaughan.

[straykat]

I think her problem is the same as Cailan's though. It's injustice by ignorance and indifference. She might be a little better than Cailan though. After all, it's because of Anora that we even get to investigate the alienage and see what her father was up to.

 

Eh.. I don't know. Even her father is confusing. He was the one who made a fighting unit of elves. The Night Elves. Then he turns around and does that crap.

 

Anyways.. you make some good points. And if I act out of "clockwork", it's because making Anora out to be a villain is kind of standard. Enough that even Gaider had to come out and defend her once. He wrote a whole blog post about it. lol

[Lezio]

I will be starting the final version of my canon run in the near future, but there are many things I consider important that happen to be incompatible.

Here is the list:

- My Warden is to romance Morrigan.

- I don't want to perform the DR because having Morrigan learn to love normal!Kieran is far more meaningful.

- Alistair will remain a GW.

- Hawke will stay in the Fade as I don't want Alistair to die.

- I don't want two protagonist deaths in a row (Warden and Champion).

- I could use Loghain to have the Warden survive, but that ruins your friendship with Alistair.

- Headache imminent.

 

My canon warden, Alexander Amell, has a story similiar to this.

 

I, the player, actually wanted to get Alistair on the throne, spare Loghain and have him do the US.... but as it turned out my character grew so much as, well, a character that sparing Loghain after what the guy had done to Jowan would not fit my warden at all. Also, my guy started out as a pro-mage DA2 Anders-like kind of guy (who increasingly became disillusioned with the mages' cause during Origins), for him to see what Tevinter really looks like and udnerstanding and to udnerstand that the Chantry was not simply lying about 'em.... well, he kind of subconsciously grew even more resentful of Loghain for his dealings with them

 

Long story short, Loghain ended up dying at my warden's sword (cuz Arcane Warrior), swore loyalty to King Alistair, refused the Dark Ritual because he felt extremely used by someone he truly loved (and because in my headcanon my warden has a pride demon[Mouse] effing his mind at times), begged her to stay (kind of breaking the pride demon's hold for the first time ever), said his goodbyes at the gates and...... well, he ended being so freaking terrified at the prospect of dying that he let his brother and king sacrifice himself to save a stupid, prideful coward's life.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't the "best" outcome for Ferelden or the best save import for Inquisition BUT i actually ended up using this one for my first run of DAI because it just felt so right

[straykat]

My canon warden, Alexander Amell, has a story similiar to this.

 

I, the player, actually wanted to get Alistair on the throne, spare Loghain and have him do the US.... but as it turned out my character grew so much as, well, a character that sparing Loghain after what the guy had done to Jowan would not fit my warden at all. Also, my guy started out as a pro-mage DA2 Anders-like kind of guy (who increasingly became disillusioned with the mages' cause during Origins), for him to see what Tevinter really looks like and udnerstanding and to udnerstand that the Chantry was not simply lying about 'em.... well, he kind of subconsciously grew even more resentful of Loghain for his dealings with them

 

Long story short, Loghain ended up dying at my warden's sword (cuz Arcane Warrior), swore loyalty to King Alistair, refused the Dark Ritual because he felt extremely used by someone he truly loved (and because in my headcanon my warden has a pride demon[Mouse] effing his mind at times), begged her to stay (kind of breaking the pride demon's hold for the first time ever), said his goodbyes at the gates and...... well, he ended being so freaking terrified at the prospect of dying that he let his brother and king sacrifice himself to save a stupid, prideful coward's life.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't the "best" outcome for Ferelden or the best save import for Inquisition BUT i actually ended up using this one for my first run of DAI because it just felt so right

 

Dude, I love that... That mouse is still screwing with your Warden.

[Ghost Gal]

I think her problem is the same as Cailan's though. It's injustice by ignorance and indifference. She might be a little better than Cailan though. After all, it's because of Anora that we even get to investigate the alienage and see what her father was up to.

 

But then one could argue that she probably only did so to help us overthrow her father, hoping we could then return the favor by restoring her as queen.

 

Fact is, when Cailan finds out he vows to do something. While it's anyone's guess how much she knew before the Blight, Anora knows by Unrest in the Alienage, but after the Blight's over she does little to nothing to change things. This causes her elven citizens to starve badly enough to feel the need to riot over it. then she squashes them but doesn't address their plight.

 

Fact is, I don't like the way she treats elves when she rules. In my "ideal playthrough," my Tabris could crown Alistair without having to change him or get dumped, and be able to work with him to help elves the way Queen Anora apparently doesn't.

 

 

Eh.. I don't know. Even her father is confusing. He was the one who made a fighting unit of elves. The Night Elves. Then he turns around and does that crap.

 

Eh, I don't fully count the book as in-game canon, honestly. The book was written after the writing for the game, and furthermore the main writer for Loghain in-game was Cheryl Chee, while Gaider wrote the book. She likely interpreted his character differently while she wrote his words and actions for the game, and/or Gaider went and added the "Night Elf" detail in the book after the fact to try to make him seem more sympathetic.

 

He did the same with Alistair's birth date between the game and book. In the game, everyone states that Alistair was born while Maric was married to Rowan, and part of the reason he didn't acknowledge him was to spare her the shame. In the next book, suddenly Rowan had been dead a few years by the time Alistair was conceived and born. Conveniently makes Maric more sympathetic, doesn't it?

 

Anyways.. you make some good points. And if I act out of "clockwork", it's because making Anora out to be a villain is kind of standard. Enough that even Gaider had to come out and defend her once. He wrote a whole blog post about it. lol

 

Oh, sorry. That's completely fair.

 

I don't blame you. Believe it or not, I don't hate Anora... but I am a huge elf fan, and I think she could treat them better as queen. While she's way better than Vaughan and Howe, she's not as good as Alistair or Cailan might have been had he lived, grown up, and started ruling. Since this thread is about discussing what we'd like if the game could give us what we want, I'd like it if she was better to the elves so I wouldn't regret my city elf crowning her instead of Alistair.

[Qun00]

I think Anora cares somewhat, but she's out of her element.. that's why it goes bad with just her alone. I don't think it's overt malice or anything.

Anyways... I'm only satisfied with my US endings really. Except a dwarf commoner who lived and redeemed Loghain. And since she's hooked up with Zevran, it doesn't matter. They seem like the type of couple who would run off and do their own thing. I don't need to see either one again.

Anora = Fereldan!Celene. They share a similar idea of how to deal with an elven rebellion. And overall, the two are very "The end justifies the means" kinda people.

[straykat]

Anora = Fereldan!Celene. They share a similar idea of how to deal with an elven rebellion. And overall, the two are very "The end justifies the means" kinda people.

 

You're probably right.

 

And I don't think of Celene as entirely malicious either. Or even cold like a Vivienne, who seems like she could never change her views.

 

I think they both could do decent things, if they were pushed more. But if you don't want to push them, that isn't bad either. It's not our fault..

 

 

As for Cailan, he was just a fool.

[GoldenGail3]

You're probably right.
 
And I don't think of Celene as entirely malicious either. Or even cold like a Vivienne, who seems like she could never change her views.
 
I think they both could do decent things, if they were pushed more. But if you don't want to push them, that isn't bad either. It's not our fault..
 
 
As for Cailan, he was just a fool.

Cailan is such a big idiot, he makes Alistair look tame in comperassion...

[Ghost Gal]

You're probably right.

 

And I don't think of Celene as entirely malicious either. Or even cold like a Vivienne, who seems like she could never change her views.

 

I'm sure that'd reassure the three thousand elven citizens she legally massacred just to appease the nobles, and their surviving friends and family.

 

"Oh, she's not entirely malicious," the guards say as they lock the alienage gates and butcher everyone inside like trapped animals. 

 

I think they both could do decent things, if they were pushed more. But if you don't want to push them, that isn't bad either. It's not our fault..

 

I think it's the fact that you have to push them to do decent things that prevents some from liking them, since we've seen examples of other rulers (well, Alistair; MAYBE Bhelen) who don't need to be pushed to do decent things.

 

Also, I think the fact that we crowned them means it kind of is by default at least partly our fault when they do terrible things with the crown we gave them. I'm personally not the kind to hand a torch to a known arsonist in front of a wooden house and then say, "Well, I didn't touch the torch to the house, therefore I'm absolved."

 

But, it is what it is.

[straykat]

I'm sure that'd reassure the three thousand elven citizens she legally massacred just to appease the nobles, and their surviving friends and family.

 

"Oh, she's not entirely malicious," the guards say as they lock the alienage gates and butcher everyone inside like trapped animals. 

 

 

I think it's the fact that you have to push them to do decent things that prevents some from liking them, since we've seen examples of other rulers (well, Alistair; MAYBE Bhelen) who don't need to be pushed to do decent things.

 

Also, I think the fact that we crowned them means it kind of is by default at least partly our fault when they do terrible things with the crown we gave them. I'm personally not the kind to hand a torch to a known arsonist in front of a wooden house and then say, "Well, I didn't touch the torch to the house, therefore I'm absolved."

 

But, it is what it is.

 

 

Exactly what are my options, outside of writing my own novel and pulling things out of my ass?

 

As if Gaspard is any better. His whole group is actively malicious. The game isn't Disneyland, either way. So I'm gonna pick the person who showed a brief hint of something to work with. Rather than the defense hawk who gets his jollies off of slaughtering people.

 

edit: If you're speaking about Anora, then I don't why she did it. You're reading a whole story into it... like she's appeasing nobles. I don't remember anything like that.

 

I like elves too, but damn. I'm just making the best of a bad situation. I'm some big Anora fan. It isn't about that. I just don't think she's some mustache twirling villain.

[Qun00]

What is your definition of malicious? What matters the most isn't the actual deed but the way you carry yourself?

"Hey, at least Celene wasn't *openly* enjoying it! And she decorated it with pretty words too."