180 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

How so? I found the Tac Cam really easy to control (likely because the control scheme is almost exactly the same as the battlefield camera in the Total War games), but I also can't imagine anything being easy to control with two thumbsticks. Admittedly, I've never liked thumbsticks in the first place (too hard to control precisely), and I've never even tried to use two at once, but how would that be easier?

 

It's because of things like not being able to click to move the pointer on it, or having to control the camera virtually entirely by the mouse. It's something that works great on controller because one thumbstick can move the pointer while the other controls the camera.

 

I'm not saying it's hard to control, but rather than it was clearly designed for a controller which can make it a tad clunky at times when using a KB/M. I also consider many of BioWare's older games to have clunky UIs as well, but I can still get through the games without issues.

 

I also know it's not a controller vs PC thing, but the fact that the pointer is just an invisible unit that is affected by environmental collision is also an annoyance for tac cam.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

If you're buying top tier hardware every few months you're either insane, filthy rich, or are using that PC for work related reasons making you more money than you're spending on said hardware.

 

Despite popular internet belief, PC gaming does not require a top of the line rig and constant hardware updates.

 

The main software needed for PC gaming is Windows which we all probably own(or "own") and the games themselves. It admittedly has been a while since I did any console gaming so correct me if I'm wrong here, but I do believe one has to buy the games on consoles if they wish to play on those as well.

 

 

I stopped playing PC games because it was too expensive for me to keep up with all the tech (graphics cards, memory upgrades, etc),OS updates, and paying more even more money to have them installed because I don't have to knowledge to do so. I don't know too install hardware and OS and I'm know I'm able to do and finding a place to do it that isn't Best Buy just isn't worth my time and money. Also I didn't like PC games and wasting money on games that I couldn't play because I despise playing with a keyboard and mouse. For PC gaming was the WORST gaming experience I've ever had and IMHO PCs as a gaming platform sucks. I will take my Xbox One and PS4 over a PC because for the consoles faults I simply I have more fun playing games on them.

 

I don't give a damn about how many frame the game runs or if it's 4K resolution because honestly unless the frame rate drops so bad most time I can tell the difference and I doubt 95% of players and gamers can tell the difference and what difference there is so minute that it's not worth the money and certainly not my time to care. 

 

My PC is just for surfing the internet, checking email, online shopping, and posting on message boards and I can and have done most of that on my Xbox One, but I don't like virtual keyboard (which is the only thing I need a keyboard to is: is typing) and I don't have the money to buy a compatible keyboard and it's not a high priority as say food is.

[Cyonan]

I stopped playing PC games because it was too expensive for me to keep up with all the tech (graphics cards, memory upgrades, etc),OS updates, and paying more even more money to have them installed because I don't have to knowledge to do so. I don't know too install hardware and OS and I'm know I'm able to do and finding a place to do it that isn't Best Buy just isn't worth my time and money. Also I didn't like PC games and wasting money on games that I couldn't play because I despise playing with a keyboard and mouse. For PC gaming was the WORST gaming experience I've ever had and IMHO PCs as a gaming platform sucks. I will take my Xbox One and PS4 over a PC because for the consoles faults I simply I have more fun playing games on them.

 

I don't give a damn about how many frame the game runs or if it's 4K resolution because honestly unless the frame rate drops so bad most time I can tell the difference and I doubt 95% of players and gamers can tell the difference and what difference there is so minute that it's not worth the money and certainly not my time to care. 

 

The best situation for hardware is to have a friend that knows that stuff. Hardware is very quick and easy to install, but I'll still advise people who don't know what they're doing to not do it because of how easy it can be to ruin your hardware by not handling it properly.

 

Installing Windows on the other hand is just an exercise in pressing "next" a bunch of times then waiting for progress bars to move, as is updating it. This is why I don't get when people say they can't do it.

 

I'll also note PC has high amounts of customization available to you. Don't like the KB/M? Windows supports Xbox controllers and it's just a USB plugin which all modern PCs have. Want to tweak a game's config file to pull out extra performance? You can do that. Or not, if it's not your thing. If you don't mind putting in a little time to do the tweaks, there is a lot of options open to you.

 

That said I'm not going to call any one platform better than the other. The right choice in gaming platform is the one you enjoy the most. I like PC because it lets me customize my gaming in ways that consoles simply don't have, so I play on PC. Others will pick consoles for their personal reasons, and they aren't wrong.

 

I find it silly to claim that either consoles or PC are inferior to one another.

[AlanC9]

It's because of things like not being able to click to move the pointer on it, or having to control the camera virtually entirely by the mouse. It's something that works great on controller because one thumbstick can move the pointer while the other controls the camera.

Not quite following this. On KBM I'm moving the pointer with the keyboard and controlling the camera with the mouse. If the left hand does one thing and the right hand does another thing in both modes, what's the difference? Obviously I'm missing something.

[sjsharp2011]

The best situation for hardware is to have a friend that knows that stuff. Hardware is very quick and easy to install, but I'll still advise people who don't know what they're doing to not do it because of how easy it can be to ruin your hardware by not handling it properly.

 

Installing Windows on the other hand is just an exercise in pressing "next" a bunch of times then waiting for progress bars to move, as is updating it. This is why I don't get when people say they can't do it.

 

I'll also note PC has high amounts of customization available to you. Don't like the KB/M? Windows supports Xbox controllers and it's just a USB plugin which all modern PCs have. Want to tweak a game's config file to pull out extra performance? You can do that. Or not, if it's not your thing. If you don't mind putting in a little time to do the tweaks, there is a lot of options open to you.

 

That said I'm not going to call any one platform better than the other. The right choice in gaming platform is the one you enjoy the most. I like PC because it lets me customize my gaming in ways that consoles simply don't have, so I play on PC. Others will pick consoles for their personal reasons, and they aren't wrong.

 

I find it silly to claim that either consoles or PC are inferior to one another.

Yeah indeed I don't build my machines mostly because my disability makes it an impossibly difficult task to do. I know how to do it but my hands won't allow me to do it. However I do program my own computer for the most part. As that I can do because as you say it's just an exercise in just clicking next all the time and watching the prorgess bar and it's no moer difficult in truth than instaqlling a game. The only annoying part about installing Windows is that it can be time consuming. Because although it is fairly easy to do you are waiting for the computer most of the time.

[AlanC9]

W10 is better, isn't it? There are maybe four clicks and they're all at the beginning. Then you just go to bed and the thing installs without you.

I think PC enthusiasts have given people the wrong impression of our update cycles. I'm running DAI on a 10-year-old midrange PC with a 5-year-old vidcard (Dell c521 and 6670, respectively.) A little slow when there are a lot of things happening, but playable.

[animedreamer]

....

 

let's look at the last BioWare game that had a keyboard and mouse UI that was good, to me that was Dragon Age Origins. The reason for that is because that game was meant for that kind of click and play game style. BioWare's current generation of games don't conform to that, they are very much hair trigger action oriented games. These games work best with fewer command inputs and more direct hand and eye coordination ie a controller. It's going to be a controller first game and the sooner we accept it the better, we'd be better of asking them to make games that require a keyboard and mouse for those of us who still enjoy that kind of game play than asking them to down grade a game to work as we want for both keyboard and mouse, as well as controllers. 

[Cyonan]

Not quite following this. On KBM I'm moving the pointer with the keyboard and controlling the camera with the mouse. If the left hand does one thing and the right hand does another thing in both modes, what's the difference? Obviously I'm missing something.

 

It'd be nicer and quicker if they just let me click to move the pointer and let me control the camera with either the keyboard or mouse.

 

It's not really difficult to control the tac cam in DA:I on PC but it's the little things like that which make me say that it was clearly designed for a controller.

 

W10 is better, isn't it? There are maybe four clicks and they're all at the beginning. Then you just go to bed and the thing installs without you.

I think PC enthusiasts have given people the wrong impression of our update cycles. I'm running DAI on a 10-year-old midrange PC with a 5-year-old vidcard (Dell c521 and 6670, respectively.) A little slow when there are a lot of things happening, but playable.

 

The actual update procedure to W10 was quick and painless for me. Not even much spamming of the next button as you say. I spent most of the time playing on my 3DS actually.

 

I think the problem is that people mostly look at the PC gamers who are running top tier rigs and like to max everything out while maintaining 60 FPS and think that all PC gamers are like that. That's expensive to do, and it's something that the vast majority of PC gamers don't do.

 

I run a top tier rig and upgrade my hardware about every 3-4 years, but I also use my PC for development and things like photoshop for professional reasons. This means that A. I actually need a somewhat high end PC and B. I can get income tax benefits on the cost it.

 

The reality is that my 8 year old PC could run DA:I as well, provided I didn't care about max settings or 60 FPS.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's because of things like not being able to click to move the pointer on it, or having to control the camera virtually entirely by the mouse. It's something that works great on controller because one thumbstick can move the pointer while the other controls the camera.

I move the tactical camera using WASD. I don't even know how to move it with the mouse.

I'm not saying it's hard to control, but rather than it was clearly designed for a controller which can make it a tad clunky at times when using a KB/M. I also consider many of BioWare's older games to have clunky UIs as well, but I can still get through the games without issues.

BioWare's last (and arguably only) genuinely good UI was in NWN, released 2002.

[CronoDragoon]

....

 

let's look at the last BioWare game that had a keyboard and mouse UI that was good, to me that was Dragon Age Origins. The reason for that is because that game was meant for that kind of click and play game style. BioWare's current generation of games don't conform to that, they are very much hair trigger action oriented games. These games work best with fewer command inputs and more direct hand and eye coordination ie a controller. It's going to be a controller first game and the sooner we accept it the better, we'd be better of asking them to make games that require a keyboard and mouse for those of us who still enjoy that kind of game play than asking them to down grade a game to work as we want for both keyboard and mouse, as well as controllers. 

 

While I won't deny the KB&M controls are lacking in DAI, considering your efficiency shoots through the roof in Tac Cam compared to real-time, I don't agree that it's all about hair-trigger action now.

[Saladinbob1]

If it is released at the same time it is done in house by BioWare, so Mass Effect 1 for the PC and PS3 were ported out, Mass Effect 2 for the PS3 I think was in house for they used the ME3 engine for it, and Jade Empire was ported out as well.  Its why I really don't understand the use of the word port when describing PC releases since they are developed at the same time as the console versions, its not like Arkham Knight where they outsourced it after they had it complete on the consoles.

 

The term 'Port' is used to describe a PC game that hasn't received any PC optimization, but rather is identical in every way to its console cousin. Given that we use (mostly) different control devices and a high res Monitor rather than a TV, direct ports look like dog **** and are unwieldy to control. It isn't unreasonable to ask that should a game be released on the PC, that the PC as a platform is taken as seriously as the two consoles. Unfortunately, given recent releases over the last ten years, Bioware appears to disagree.

[Sylvius the Mad]

....

let's look at the last BioWare game that had a keyboard and mouse UI that was good, to me that was Dragon Age Origins. The reason for that is because that game was meant for that kind of click and play game style. BioWare's current generation of games don't conform to that, they are very much hair trigger action oriented games. These games work best with fewer command inputs and more direct hand and eye coordination ie a controller. It's going to be a controller first game and the sooner we accept it the better, we'd be better of asking them to make games that require a keyboard and mouse for those of us who still enjoy that kind of game play than asking them to down grade a game to work as we want for both keyboard and mouse, as well as controllers.

I think DAI works just fine with KBM.

[von uber]

Regarding ports...

 

http://www.eurogamer...uantum-break-pc

[AlanC9]

It'd be nicer and quicker if they just let me click to move the pointer and let me control the camera with either the keyboard or mouse.
 
It's not really difficult to control the tac cam in DA:I on PC but it's the little things like that which make me say that it was clearly designed for a controller.

Ah... now I get it. It isn't that tac cam works any better with a controller, it's that the KBM version isn't as much better than the controller version as it ought to be.

[Grieving Natashina]

I found the MB+K bearable because I have a 12 button gaming mouse. Without it, the controls feel stiff and awkward when I tested it with my husband's mouse. Also, I don't feel that platforming (like with the Shards) and KB+M mix very well. I prefer a KB+M and I personally don't care for using a controller. My reaction time is quicker with a MB+K, especially with the gaming mouse. Most of my gaming is done on my PC these days. Those mice aren't cheap though, and it seems odd to me that is the only way to make it somewhat comfortable. I hope for smoother controls for everyone regardless.

All I can do is hope that things will be more compatible for the PC in ME:A, since they aren't trying to test for 5 different platforms across two generations. Three platforms seems easier to test and manage, and hopefully PC won't seem like as much of an afterthought. I'm not blaming consoles or the players, I'm blaming EA/BioWare for stretching themselves so thin. What someone plays on is a complete non-issue for me. In fact, I'm glad that there are very few console or PC exclusive games anymore.

Since the Tac Cam was brought up, I could take it or leave it. I find myself enjoying action style combat in my RPGs more and more. I'm always happy to see more options along those lines for players, even if I don't use them.

Edit: I removed the rest of the last paragraph because I couldn't find a decent way to express more of my PoV on the subject.

[Sartoz]

I think DAI works just fine with KBM.

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If you and I agree to disagree, I'm, good with that.

[Sanunes]

Ah... now I get it. It isn't that tac cam works any better with a controller, it's that the KBM version isn't as much better than the controller version as it ought to be.

 

That is correct its functionality for me at least wasn't any better or worse with a controller.  Most of the time I focus on the Tactical Camera because it uses Y, H, K, and L by default for commands to be used while in tactical mode and when I was playing Inquisition I was recovering from a shoulder injury so it was frustrating because I was always moving my hand from the home position to try and use the commands on the far side of my keyboard.  Now if I had a mouse with more buttons it could be side-stepped, but at that time I probably would have just used a a controller instead of spending money on another mouse since my income was more limited as well.

[Amplitudelol]

It's because of things like not being able to click to move the pointer on it, or having to control the camera virtually entirely by the mouse. It's something that works great on controller because one thumbstick can move the pointer while the other controls the camera.

 

I'm not saying it's hard to control, but rather than it was clearly designed for a controller which can make it a tad clunky at times when using a KB/M. I also consider many of BioWare's older games to have clunky UIs as well, but I can still get through the games without issues.

 

I also know it's not a controller vs PC thing, but the fact that the pointer is just an invisible unit that is affected by environmental collision is also an annoyance for tac cam.

 

Controller has a great feel to it in adventure games or anything where you dont have to precisely aim at something fast. Controller sucks the fun out of shooter games. It felt good for me while playing assassin's creed inquisition but fallout 4? No thanks, and when you have proper aim assist the game plays for you, not good either. I hope for a good customizable control scheme and interface for mouse users. I know there will be mako driving, im hoping for being able to drive it with controller then putting down the controller and grap mouse for shooting parts, it worked beautifully in gta.

[goishen]

The only thing that I really dislike about DAI is the V key, or the pulse key, or the ping key, or the "find all collectibles around you" key.

 

It's kind'a like that one person's tag line, "I'm a person, not a submarine."  I forget who it was.

[Sailears]

Yes I sincerely hope for NO omni-button.

I'd like to bind sprint, interact, take cover, dodge all to separate keys in the in game menu.

[In Exile]

Ah... now I get it. It isn't that tac cam works any better with a controller, it's that the KBM version isn't as much better than the controller version as it ought to be.

 

Also, some of the functionality with a KBM is strange, because of how the model is clearly based off the console's limits. With a controller, there's no detached camera - the little thing you move around represents individual character's waypoint. That's why you can't Control+A in DA:I. And that's one of my bigger frustrations. It's just mouse friendly, and ultimately that's what makes it a chore to manipulate. Plus the awful pathfinding.  

[LostScout61]

If a UI designer is going to attach the camera to an invisible steerable object, the least they could do is attach it to an invisible steerable flying object.  When you have to walk your viewpoint around obstacles and climb up stairs it just screams "sloppy rush job".

[In Exile]

If a UI designer is going to attach the camera to an invisible steerable object, the least they could do is attach it to an invisible steerable flying object.  When you have to walk your viewpoint around obstacles and climb up stairs it just screams "sloppy rush job".

 

Again, though, in the console version the thing represents the waypoint of a character - so it makes sense it's neither invisible nor flying. What doesn't make sense is translating the UI over to a KBM system directly. 

[LostScout61]

Again, though, in the console version the thing represents the waypoint of a character - so it makes sense it's neither invisible nor flying. What doesn't make sense is translating the UI over to a KBM system directly. 

I used to play  flight sims.  The mission planners allow you to set waypoints in 3 dimensions.  A waypoint doesn't have to be two dimensional and waypoints for NPC's can be hidden (invisible)  when you aren't controlling them.  I don't think the method they used was a particularly good one even for a controller, much less for M + KB.

[In Exile]

I used to play  flight sims.  The mission planners allow you to set waypoints in 3 dimensions.  A waypoint doesn't have to be two dimensional and waypoints for NPC's can be hidden (invisible)  when you aren't controlling them.  I don't think the method they used was a particularly good one even for a controller, much less for M + KB.

 

You're not really accounting for the controller scheme (because flight sims, even with a joystick, had a very different type of functionality), but I agree with you the pathfinding mechanic is poorly done.