76 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

If Blood Mage had been available as a specialization, what kinds of special actions could it have given you? In this scenario, assume that other specializations would have their own actions if they made sense.

 

My ideas thus far:

Binding Cole to skip his personal quest, at the cost of disapproval from Solas and Varric.

Breaking the mind control of the Grey Warden mages in Here Lies the Abyss (precedent is DA2, where Alain's blood magic is the only way to break Grace's prisoner's binding).

Potentially mind controlling the leaders of Orlais into peace, at the cost of disapproval from everyone.

 

So, does anyone else have ideas?

[thats1evildude]

You could be murdered by Cassandra for being a maleficar?

[9TailsFox]

I think it's best pc don't get blood magic because it's worst example of gameplay/story segregation, blood mage should be powerful.

 

[Xilizhra]

You could be murdered by Cassandra for being a maleficar?

She wanted to recruit a blood mage Hawke to the Inquisition still, so I doubt it.

[Andromelek]

Maybe could have been used in Vivienne's personal quest (The Baroness was able to keep youth thanks to Blood Magic).

Skip some quests on Jaws of Hakkon by using it on Thane Sun-Hair, perhaps also could break or weak the bond between Hakkon and Gurd Harofsen or the Dragon.

Mostly would've been useful on Trespasser, brainwash Teagan when he comes to whine about not being informed, avoid Iron Bull's betrayal and maybe even brainwash Viddasala.

[Xilizhra]

Maybe could have been used in Vivienne's personal quest (The Baroness was able to keep youth thanks to Blood Magic).

Skip some quests on Jaws of Hakkon by using it on Thane Sun-Hair, perhaps also could break or weak the bond between Hakkon and Gurd Harofsen or the Dragon.

Mostly would've been useful on Trespasser, brainwash Teagan when he comes to whine about not being informed, avoid Iron Bull's betrayal and maybe even brainwash Viddasala.

Very possible, and thankfully, it comes with an inbuilt balancing factor of making everyone disapprove, likely greatly in many cases, at least if you're just mind controlling people (breaking other people's mind control, on the other hand, would likely not incur disapproval except maybe from Cassandra, and Solas would actually approve).

[Reznore57]

She wanted to recruit a blood mage Hawke to the Inquisition still, so I doubt it.

 

That's the problem with blood magic , storywise there never is such a thing as Blood Mage Hawke.

Specialization in DA2 were purely gameplay and nothing else.

 

In DAi they tried to incorporate spe a tiny bit in the story with the trainers , and companions making remarks.

Problem with blood magic is lot of people have a huge problem with blood magic , and it goes beyond the distate some can show for necromancers.

[Xilizhra]

That's the problem with blood magic , storywise there never is such a thing as Blood Mage Hawke.

Specialization in DA2 were purely gameplay and nothing else.

 

In DAi they tried to incorporate spe a tiny bit in the story with the trainers , and companions making remarks.

Problem with blood magic is lot of people have a huge problem with blood magic , and it goes beyond the distate some can show for necromancers.

There was also a degree of story in the DAO specialization, where it was made reasonably clear that Grey Wardens can get away with using blood magic if it's for the purposes of stopping the Blight. The Inquisitor's job is at least as important, so if blood magic was kept quiet--as Josephine mentions doing for necromancy--it wouldn't be hard to pull off with only the ones who had to know, knowing.

[vertigomez]

I imagine it would go a little something like this.



It bothered me that nobody reacted to a blood mage Hawke in DA2. Especially Fenris and Anders.

[thats1evildude]

Creepy as it may be, necromancy isn't strictly forbidden. I just have a hard time swallowing the idea people would rally around a blood mage, especially if they're using their powers to mind control others.

[Reznore57]

There was also a degree of story in the DAO specialization, where it was made reasonably clear that Grey Wardens can get away with using blood magic if it's for the purposes of stopping the Blight. The Inquisitor's job is at least as important, so if blood magic was kept quiet--as Josephine mentions doing for necromancy--it wouldn't be hard to pull off with only the ones who had to know, knowing.

 

Yeah but there is still a huge difference between necromancers and blood magic.

They have necromancers in Nevarra and it's a pious country.Rest of Thedas think it's distasful , but an andrastian country who'd be openly ok with having blood mages at court and in important position , would get an Exalted March on their a**.

I won't say the Chantry is open minded when it comes to toying with spirits but they aren't 100% against it , some circles were allowed to study spirits etc...but blood magic is taboo , you get branded maleficar on the spot.

 

About the wardens , well there are a special case .They're not really open about what they do , and most people don't want to know .

Which isn't actually the case of the Inquisition and Inquisitor.

 

Now it might be a different story if we go up north , in Tevinter it is forbidden but "secretly " accepted .

[Xilizhra]

Creepy as it may be, necromancy isn't strictly forbidden. I just have a hard time swallowing the idea people would rally around a blood mage, especially if they're using their powers to mind control others.

Hence the disapproval ticks and the need to keep things hidden.

 

But ultimately, this thread isn't about that. Rather, it's what could be done with it. So, any more suggestions on that note?

[Qun00]

You could be given a special dialogue option to bargain with the Nightmare demon.

Then it would deceive the Inquisitor as its ilk often do, take over his/her body and deliver the good news to Corypheus, THE TRUE GOD OF THEDAS!

[thats1evildude]

We could summon demons to make friends with the other demons and then close Rifts while they're sharing a beer.

Caution: summoning demons in response to demons may result in demons teaming up and possessing the summoner.

[The Ascendant]

In the next game, I hope we have the chance to use blood magic both in combat and when dealing with others. Use it like Force Persaude or Axii sign from Witcher. Summoning demons is also handy. All you have to do is let us in....

[Lord Raijin]

I can somewhat understand from a lore POV why Bioware did not give us the Blood mage specialization option as it would bring up a religious conflict against the Inquisition, and the rest of the Thedas. If the leader of inquisition (as a mage) started dibbling in blood magic would give the Chantry the treasure trove of ammo to take down the inquisition with the support of the community.

 

I imagine it would go a little something like this.



It bothered me that nobody reacted to a blood mage Hawke in DA2. Especially Fenris and Anders.

 

Anders don't have room to talk. Fenris on the other hand... he may hate mages and blood mages, but the blood mage that he is with is keeping him safe from slavers. He really can't be too picky considering the situation. Without Hawke his protection barrier would cease to exist.

[Gervaise]

No, regardless of Hawke helping Fenris, him accepting their status as a blood mage just didn't wash.  It should have been the case that he left their group when he discovered it.  

 

They left the specialisation out of Inquisition because it would have been too difficult to justify acceptance of their choice by former members of the Chantry, let alone the Chantry itself.   Also it would have made a nonsense of their use of trainers because there is no way that any of the advisors would authorise recruiting a blood mage trainer.

 

What didn't make sense was that none of the Venatori mages used blood magic against you; the only time we see it used is by the Grey Wardens and Erimond in controlling them, and that was partly due to the taint rather than pure blood magic.    So if we are going to Tevinter next game, they are going to have to reinstate the use of blood magic by at least some of the Tevinter mages or their lore just wouldn't make sense.     Whether the PC is going to be allowed to use it is another matter and will probably depend on who we are working for and our back story.  

[vertigomez]

Anders don't have room to talk.

He doesn't, but that doesn't stop him. He despises blood mages.

Fenris on the other hand... he may hate mages and blood mages, but the blood mage that he is with is keeping him safe from slavers. He really can't be too picky considering the situation. Without Hawke his protection barrier would cease to exist.

He doesn't hate all mages. He just hates the ones he thinks are irresponsible and dangerous, i.e. blood mages and those who deal with demons, and he thinks that even ones who don't immediately resort to such measures will eventually do so when pressed.

But yeah, dude hates blood magic on principle because of what it does and how you generally learn it.

[vbibbi]

She wanted to recruit a blood mage Hawke to the Inquisition still, so I doubt it.

Well, given that Varric was her source of information on Hawke, I doubt Cassandra knows, even after DAI, whether Hawke was a blood mage or not. Since, as others have pointed out, there is no narrative reaction in game to Hawke's specialization, it can be ignored unlike Merrill's use of blood magic on the eluvian or Anders' possession.

 

The issue with blood magic for a protagonist is that it could also be used to skip a lot of quests. Like people have pointed out here, we could use it to force the thane to send her forces to assault the fortress rather than win their trust. We could skip the entirety of WEWH by controlling Celene. It's difficult to provide an overpowering ability like mind control to one class only and then have it have any noticeable effect separate to the other specializations. It's effectively writing a different quest path for one ninth of the specializations.

 

 

 

 

BUT to actually respond to the OP, some examples I can think of:

 

force the Hand of Korth to stand down rather than fight him to the death. Have him join his tribe to the Inquisition.

Use blood magic on all judgements to either get them to reveal information (Alexius, Samson, Denam, Erimond, Servius) or to ensure their loyalty (Florianne, Alexius, Servius).

"Convince" the Dalish clan you're their friend rather than perform tasks.

Control the Blades of Hessarion leader rather than duel him.

Have a special dialogue option in Dorian's personal quest, which may lead to him automatically leaving the Inquisition

It would be cool if we tried to use bm on Denam or Alexius during their quests but they were protected from it by red lyrium.

Try to bind Imshael to us or strike a better bargain than what he offers.

 

If we want to be really evil, during IYHSB have the option of sacrificing the townspeople we're supposed to rescue for a temporary power boost or refresh of health.

 

 

I think one downside to blood magic should have been that it takes two more waves of demons to close rifts, since Solas says it makes interacting with the Fade more difficult. That would outweigh a lot of the shortcuts it provides in quests. And maybe have some effect in HLtA when we're in the Fade, like a slow but steady loss of focus or stamina/mana.

[vbibbi]

No, regardless of Hawke helping Fenris, him accepting their status as a blood mage just didn't wash.  It should have been the case that he left their group when he discovered it.  

 

They left the specialisation out of Inquisition because it would have been too difficult to justify acceptance of their choice by former members of the Chantry, let alone the Chantry itself.   Also it would have made a nonsense of their use of trainers because there is no way that any of the advisors would authorise recruiting a blood mage trainer.

 

What didn't make sense was that none of the Venatori mages used blood magic against you; the only time we see it used is by the Grey Wardens and Erimond in controlling them, and that was partly due to the taint rather than pure blood magic.    So if we are going to Tevinter next game, they are going to have to reinstate the use of blood magic by at least some of the Tevinter mages or their lore just wouldn't make sense.     Whether the PC is going to be allowed to use it is another matter and will probably depend on who we are working for and our back story.  

Though wouldn't it have been funny if the mage trainers came in, we have Your Trainer and the knight enchanter walk into the keep...and a desire demon floats in after them.

 

Josephine: I had to pull a few strings to find one of your...trainers. A young man who lived in Redcliffe told me to look for cats with glowing purple eyes.

[Xilizhra]

Well, given that Varric was her source of information on Hawke, I doubt Cassandra knows, even after DAI, whether Hawke was a blood mage or not. Since, as others have pointed out, there is no narrative reaction in game to Hawke's specialization, it can be ignored unlike Merrill's use of blood magic on the eluvian or Anders' possession.

 

The issue with blood magic for a protagonist is that it could also be used to skip a lot of quests. Like people have pointed out here, we could use it to force the thane to send her forces to assault the fortress rather than win their trust. We could skip the entirety of WEWH by controlling Celene. It's difficult to provide an overpowering ability like mind control to one class only and then have it have any noticeable effect separate to the other specializations. It's effectively writing a different quest path for one ninth of the specializations.

I consider that more or less a nonissue, because it's a fairly standard trade, and doesn't require much extra work: if you want to skip large chunks of the game you paid for, thus gaining less experience as well as having your party hate you, that's on you.

 

 

BUT to actually respond to the OP, some examples I can think of:

 

force the Hand of Korth to stand down rather than fight him to the death. Have him join his tribe to the Inquisition.

Use blood magic on all judgements to either get them to reveal information (Alexius, Samson, Denam, Erimond, Servius) or to ensure their loyalty (Florianne, Alexius, Servius).

"Convince" the Dalish clan you're their friend rather than perform tasks.

Control the Blades of Hessarion leader rather than duel him.

Have a special dialogue option in Dorian's personal quest, which may lead to him automatically leaving the Inquisition

It would be cool if we tried to use bm on Denam or Alexius during their quests but they were protected from it by red lyrium.

Try to bind Imshael to us or strike a better bargain than what he offers.

 

If we want to be really evil, during IYHSB have the option of sacrificing the townspeople we're supposed to rescue for a temporary power boost or refresh of health.

Some of this I didn't include because the blood magic would be too obvious, such as in judgments. But maybe there'd be a way around it. Also, to clarify, Dorian would be a blood mage here too, because of the all-specializations-are-companion-specializations rule (and you can't have a specialization anyway when confronting Alexius or Denam).

[vbibbi]

I consider that more or less a nonissue, because it's a fairly standard trade, and doesn't require much extra work: if you want to skip large chunks of the game you paid for, thus gaining less experience as well as having your party hate you, that's on you.

 

 

Some of this I didn't include because the blood magic would be too obvious, such as in judgments. But maybe there'd be a way around it. Also, to clarify, Dorian would be a blood mage here too, because of the all-specializations-are-companion-specializations rule (and you can't have a specialization anyway when confronting Alexius or Denam).

Hmm, I really really can't see Dorian as a blood mage. Perhaps once upon a time, but as soon as his father tried to use a bm ritual on him to change his sexuality I think he would have abandoned it and never looked back. He clearly shows horror at the implications (justifiably) and also shows aversion to some of the research Alexius was performing. I don't think he's interested in forbidden magic, he's more of a theory nerd.

 

Forgot about not having the specialization before IHW or CotJ.

[sandalisthemaker]

Trying to mess with the Warden's blood magic ritual would have been a biggy.

 

But there needs to be consequences with blood magic use, like the Inquisitor making things worse somehow. 

 

If it is a thing in the next game, and I would think it should be, it needs to have weight.  

 

I'm not just talking about 'companion X slightly disapproves'.  There should be Last Flight levels of consequences.  

 

If the player wants to have the blood mage specialization, they should have to apprentice themselves to a magister and/or should have to sacrifice elven slaves to summon a demon to teach it to them.  And the sacrifice should be a cutscene sequence, with the consequences of your actions on full display.    It shouldn't just be a button press and POOF I'm a super special blood mage with no negative consequences. 

 

It's time for show, not just tell when it comes to blood magic as far as the player is concerned.  DA2 showed us how dark that road can go with Huon, Evelina, Grace, Quentin, and Orsino.  Now if they could have the PC somehow experience the dangers and pitfalls in a meaningful way, that would be something.  

[Xilizhra]

If the player wants to have the blood mage specialization, they should have to apprentice themselves to a magister and/or should have to sacrifice elven slaves to summon a demon to teach it to them.  And the sacrifice should be a cutscene sequence, with the consequences of your actions on full display.    It shouldn't just be a button press and POOF I'm a super special blood mage with no negative consequences.

Question: why, when there's precedent about it being learned from A. books, and B. bullying a demon, both in DAO?

[sandalisthemaker]

Question: why, when there's precedent about it being learned from A. books, and B. bullying a demon, both in DAO?

 

Because it's been expanded upon in the lore since then.   Demons teaching blood magic has been referenced several times. 

 

And the Warden can't be compared to a normal person in regards to... anything really.  Regular mages couldn't just 'bully' a demon.   And that's what I think should change.  The mage PC has always been above the rules so to speak.