76 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

It's time for show, not just tell 

Bioware is awful with this, always has been.

 

Look no further then their Star Wars entries, well that isn't fair they occasionally show the actual cost for power if you follow the dark side of the Force but not often.

 

The presence of a light-side Force user bumped up against his Force sensitivity, a sudden flare in his perception.

 

[...]

 

He reached out through the Force, probing for the light-side presence he had felt.

 

At first there was nothing, and he wondered if he had been mistaken, or if the light-side user had perceived Malgus and suppressed his power. But then...

 

There.

 

He felt it as an irritation behind his eyes, an itch only violence could scratch. He shed his cloak and stepped to the edge of the landing ramp. The wind pulled at him. Anger swelled in him, buoyed him up. The Force anchored him in place. He pinched his comlink again.

 

Ironically this comes from Bioware material and yet its written descriptors speak of a mindset, of a cost that we cannot see in game, a character's thoughts are not our own. We do not feel the cancer of the Dark Side radiating outward, we do not feel the thoughts of constant anger, blood and wrath that generate their power, we don't have that material present, at best we will get a Bastillia who will speak of the 'taint' with out ever going into just what makes it tainted. Same for Blood Magic, when you delve into something that will ultimately destroy any but the strongest, you are going to miss out of the inconveniences, you aren't going to hear the demons whispering just like you aren't going to feel your flesh rotting away from the Force.

[Xilizhra]

Because it's been expanded upon in the lore since then.   Demons teaching blood magic has been referenced several times.

Learning blood magic from other sources, or even by accident, has also been referenced.

 

 

And the Warden can't be compared to a normal person in regards to... anything really.

Neither can the protagonists of 2 or Inquisition or the fourth game. This is a non-argument.

[sandalisthemaker]

 

you aren't going to hear the demons whispering

 

 

That would actually be a neat, creepy effect.   Even if nothing comes of it, the fact that they at least put some effort into the illusion of consequences would be cool. 

 

 

 

Neither can the protagonists of 2 or Inquisition or the fourth game. This is a non-argument.

 

All I'm saying is that if they are going to constantly tell us that blood magic is dangerous and has consequences, then perhaps they should give the player a little taste. 

[Voidinist]

We've seen that most spells that continue to exist are because the mage who cast them is alive and is still maintaining them. Blood magicking world leaders into peace would last only so long as your Inquisitor stays alive and the same could probably be said for binding Cole.

 

Cassandra would slice you open no matter what, thank the Maker.

 

I also don't believe blood mage Hawke is canon. Just like how I don't believe Spirit Warrior Warden is canon. Until we get tiles for the specializations in the Keep, I won't acknowledge it. Not that Cassandra would know Hawke was a blood mage as she would have to rely on whatever Varric told her.

[thats1evildude]

Whenever you get close to one of the charred corpses while trailing Grandin in JoH, you can hear faint whispers. It's a cool effect.

[Xilizhra]

All I'm saying is that if they are going to constantly tell us that blood magic is dangerous and has consequences, then perhaps they should give the player a little taste. 

That's like saying that killing a would-be god and anointing yourself as a new prophet is dangerous and has consequences: it's true, but that's hardly insurmountable for the PC.

[vbibbi]

That would actually be a neat, creepy effect.   Even if nothing comes of it, the fact that they at least put some effort into the illusion of consequences would be cool. 

 

 

 

All I'm saying is that if they are going to constantly tell us that blood magic is dangerous and has consequences, then perhaps they should give the player a little taste. 

It could be cool if they redesigned the magic system a bit, and instead of a cool down for spells, it was a timer for how strongly demons/spirits were whispering to us, and we could continue casting the spell during this timer, but at greater risk. Maybe risk a random stat being lowered for 8 hours with no method of restoring it except rest. Or some other form of "possession counter." I haven't played MotB but I've heard there's a similar mechanic in that.

 

Of course, I don't think this is a good point in the series to completely redo the magic system, especially since that would only effect one third of the classes.

[sandalisthemaker]

It could be cool if they redesigned the magic system a bit, and instead of a cool down for spells, it was a timer for how strongly demons/spirits were whispering to us, and we could continue casting the spell during this timer, but at greater risk. Maybe risk a random stat being lowered for 8 hours with no method of restoring it except rest. Or some other form of "possession counter." I haven't played MotB but I've heard there's a similar mechanic in that.

 

Of course, I don't think this is a good point in the series to completely redo the magic system, especially since that would only effect one third of the classes.

 

It gets tricky and costly to add meaningful content in areas that not all players will experience. That's why blood magic wasn't in DAI, and there's always the chance that it won't be in DA4 for that reason.  But blood magic and Tevinter go hand in hand, so it would be odd not to include it in some way.  I think it should have heavy story relevance at the very least, even if the PC can't use it. 

[Master Warder Z_]

I haven't played MotB but I've heard there's a similar mechanic in that.

 

You mean hunger?

 

God was that a chore.

[vbibbi]

It gets tricky and costly to add meaningful content in areas that not all players will experience. That's why blood magic wasn't in DAI, and there's always the chance that it won't be in DA4 for that reason.  But blood magic and Tevinter go hand in hand, so it would be odd not to include it in some way.  I think it should have heavy story relevance at the very least, even if the PC can't use it. 

I would be extremely surprised if blood magic wasn't in DA4, regardless of if the PC can adopt it or not.

 

But the possession timer idea would be for all mages, not just blood mages. I thought it was said in one of the games or books that all magic brings the attention of spirits, and part of the Harrowing is to prove that mages can resist these whispers when they perform magic. It's just louder for blood mages.

 

I honestly think something that was a gameplay mechanic would better demonstrate the constant danger mages are in of possession. Right now, only idiots turn into abominations.

[sandalisthemaker]

I would be extremely surprised if blood magic wasn't in DA4, regardless of if the PC can adopt it or not.

 

But the possession timer idea would be for all mages, not just blood mages. I thought it was said in one of the games or books that all magic brings the attention of spirits, and part of the Harrowing is to prove that mages can resist these whispers when they perform magic. It's just louder for blood mages.

 

I honestly think something that was a gameplay mechanic would better demonstrate the constant danger mages are in of possession. Right now, only idiots turn into abominations.

 

 

Yeah, Last Flight shows us that demons are always there, whispering whenever a mage casts a spell.  It's not loud enough to be too distracting to the mage most of the time, and they only start howling when a mage uses blood magic.

 

It would be very interesting, but I don't think mage players would appreciate it. Especially since previous mage PCs have been too powerful or special to have to ever worry about the dangers of magic and risk of possession. 

[vbibbi]

Yeah, Last Flight shows us that demons are always there, whispering whenever a mage casts a spell.  It's not loud enough to be too distracting to the mage most of the time, and they only start howling when a mage uses blood magic.

 

It would be very interesting, but I don't think mage players would appreciate it. Especially since previous mage PCs have been too powerful or special to have to ever worry about the dangers of magic and risk of possession. 

True, it's something that would have had to start with DAO. Not something that could be inserted after 3 games.

[sandalisthemaker]

True, it's something that would have had to start with DAO. Not something that could be inserted after 3 games.

 

That's not to say there couldn't be interesting story elements.  I think that could be added, especially if they go with the angle that the PC (of all classes, not just mages) isn't some almighty chosen one (at least not from the start, anyway).  

 

Gameplay elements that could be interpreted as "punishment" would be tricky to implement, though. I personally don't think it's necessary, but story elements would be cool. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Here's something I've been wondering: How long do the effects of mind-control last? Do you just cast a spell and it holds indefinitely, for years? Because my impression was that the casting mage had to focus on what they wanted their thrall to do, and the spell would break if they broke concentration. Maybe even if they slept.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

I also don't believe blood mage Hawke is canon. Just like how I don't believe Spirit Warrior Warden is canon. Until we get tiles for the specializations in the Keep, I won't acknowledge it. Not that Cassandra would know Hawke was a blood mage as she would have to rely on whatever Varric told her.

That's pretty silly. Tons of things aren't in the Keep.

[Catilina]

I like playing with self-concident caracter, who not problem using the blood magic, but I want to see how risky.

The current (DAO-DA2) system treated the using of blood magic same way, as using the fire or healing magic. Some reaction would be welcome from the companios, and from those who see or know, that the character use blood magic.

[Voidinist]

That's pretty silly. Tons of things aren't in the Keep.

 

Tons of things that don't seem to be acknowledged by the writers. There are some things I'd acknowledge like the peace talks and such (even though that also barely makes a difference), but I can't justify a blood mage Hawke working in canon at all.

[sandalisthemaker]

Here's something I've been wondering: How long do the effects of mind-control last? Do you just cast a spell and it holds indefinitely, for years? Because my impression was that the casting mage had to focus on what they wanted their thrall to do, and the spell would break if they broke concentration. Maybe even if they slept.

 

I don't think there are answers to that.

 

But in the WoT entry describing a Tevinter mage killing an elven kitchen slave to cast a protective "aura" around herself, the spell didn't seem to require any sort of maintenance or concentration on her part after she killed the slave.  It could be that more violence of the initial act of blood shed to cast the spell translates to longer lasting effects of the spells. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Being dumped by your love interest sounds like an appropriate start.

 

Poor Inky. Forever alone, bar whatever date-rape mind control they care to use going forward.

[vbibbi]

Here's something I've been wondering: How long do the effects of mind-control last? Do you just cast a spell and it holds indefinitely, for years? Because my impression was that the casting mage had to focus on what they wanted their thrall to do, and the spell would break if they broke concentration. Maybe even if they slept.

My impression is that blood magic lasts longer, or is perhaps permanent in some situations. Doesn't blood control/blood slave last until the creature dies?

 

And the blood magic spell binding Hawke's sibling in Act 3 is permanent until someone uses blood magic to remove it.

[vertigomez]

I like the idea of a MotB spirit hunger style mechanic for mages. The way the spirit-eater curse works is that the more you eat, the more you Crave, and if you indulge too much you become insatiable... but you also gain incredible power. If you choose to resist, your Craving decreases and you need to feed far less often... but you're comparatively weak. You can actively fight being a monster or embrace it, and there are consequences either way.

In DA, using blood magic all the time would result in whispers only the PC can hear (like playing a Malkavian in VtMB), experiencing blackouts, potentially having wonky dialogue options as your PC loses focus, random encounters with demons or Templars. Someone who uses it sparingly or not at all would be weaker overall but have more clarity, have fewer enemy encounters, be better equipped to resist demonic possession, etc.

Of course, the problem with this is that it'd be a huuuge resources sink for something only a minority of players will experience. Unless they start making Templar PCs suffer the effects of lyrium withdrawal I don't think we're going to see anything like this in the near future.

Potentially mind controlling the leaders of Orlais into peace, at the cost of disapproval from everyone.

I love the idea of this - in theory - but this is one of those situations where disapproval just wouldn't be enough. If the PC is actively mind-controlling people and not just boiling the blood of their enemies, I really think most of their companions would never trust them again. Not that Bioware cares about that. I mean, Hawke earns rivalry for selling Fenris into slavery or taking Orana as their slave when 90% of the party should punch them in the face and refuse to speak to them ever again, if not outright kill them.

[Medhia_Nox]

You could be turned into a sock puppet by a demon who convinced you that if you just let it in you can do even more good. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

You could be turned into a sock puppet by a demon who convinced you that if you just let it in you can do even more good. 

I wonder why powerful magical beings like Solas and Flemeth don't draw the attention of demons

[fhs33721]

I wonder why powerful magical beings like Solas and Flemeth don't draw the attention of demons.

They most likely do. Solas is just to good at magic stuff to be posessed and Flemeth is already posessed (or something along those lines) by the spirit of Mythal.

[Jedi Comedian]

My Inquisitor would scream: UNLIMITED POWAH!

On a more serious note, my mage playthrough would be very different. He would have fought to demonstrate that Blood Magic can be used for good.