Solas does not mean pride
#1
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 01:47
- Secret Rare, ModernAcademic et German Soldier aiment ceci
#2
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 03:18
#3
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 03:23
- myahele aime ceci
#4
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 03:35
#5
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 03:47
...Or, given that they created their in-game definitions of the elvhen language, then gave this name to a character who is well aware of the ancient language, it means 'pride,' like they say.
Because Solas is very proud. He is proud of the ancient elves. He is proud when it comes to his plans. He does not let himself be swayed by sentiment. He is all of the pride and arrogance people want to claim the Dalish have - 'my way is correct, my knowledge accurate, therefore you should listen to me over any other, and if you don't, you are a fool and I will have no further dealings with you.' Like, that's literally the attitude he has towards the Dalish, that if they can't accept his words as the truth, though he has no tangible evidence to corroborate his words, then they are the ones who are wrong and are not deserving of his help. His pride blinds him - he sees the world as it is as a pale reflection of the world that was, and so it must die to let the world of before live again. He doesn't care about any value there might be in this world, just so long as the world he wants comes back. Everything that he does, he does because he is too proud to see that this world holds its own worth and merit, just sees it as a pale shadow of a dead empire he thinks he can breathe back to life.
Solas meaning pride? It very much fits the character. He would like you to think that it's an irony and he is actually very humble, but to believe that is to fall into the same trap he does, of seeing his experiences as having humbled him, brought him low. All they've done is allow him that illusion, while giving him no opportunity to change or grow. He is still the same prideful creature at heart, who believes he knows best and only he can fix things.
The word is probably supposed to make you think of solace and other words, but the character? Definitely full of pride, and thus, very fitting to the elvhen definition above others.
- Cigne, Absafraginlootly, Vit246 et 2 autres aiment ceci
#8
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 06:51
And in Irish, solas means "light". And in Portuguese, apparently it means the sole of the foot or something, which is why there is freaky foot pron on the tumblr Solas tag.
In Elven, which is actually the language used in the game, it means both "pride" and "to stand tall". You can read it on the wiki.
- Addictress aime ceci
#10
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 07:22
It's not supposed to be Spanish.
It's supposed to be Elven.
/Thread.
- DodgeS61 aime ceci
#11
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 07:53
I dare say the writers saw the irony in giving him the name that is the elven word for pride, but also knowing that in our world it can mean alone, both of which do apply to him. Solas can also mean "to stand tall" in elven. This has a more positive meaning to the word "pride"; being unbowed and prepared to stand up for what your believe, which is also true of Solas. It is interesting that in an interview, PW was asked about Solas' names and it was hinted that he may have had others. We know from the ancient writings in the Temple that Abelas took that name for himself after the death of Mythal, but he was called something else when he served her and in fact changed his name from something else to do so.
So it is entirely possible that contrary to what he said, "Solas came first", that he may have been called something else before he became Solas. You can argue he was not actually lying, merely talking about the relationship between his name of Solas and the title of Dread Wolf that the Evanuris gave him, so he was Solas before he was the Dread Wolf, which he says he took because it encouraged his followers in their fight against their tyrant gods. People disagree with me but I still think that he was the person who "dared to fly in the shape of the divine", I believe was ordered to serve Mythal as punishment by Elgar'nan and was given/took the name of Solas as a result, because he had dared to assume the form of a god.
I'd still like to know what the connection is between Solas and the Temple of Solassan. Also why that city in Tevinter is called Solas. PW says that the Tevinter took over many elven sites and re-purposed them to their own use, altering and removing the signs of the early elven empire. Yet in this case they did not change the name, so why does a city just to the north of the Silent Plains have a name that is the elven word for pride?
Something else to ponder on, much of the Canticle of Shartan is based on ancient elven folktales about a "rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster warrior". So looking at it from this perspective it is interesting that when Shartan (Solas) first steps up to rally the elven slaves into continuing their fight against their oppressors, he does so from the hill top known as The Lonely One.
- Cigne, Addictress, Aren et 2 autres aiment ceci
#12
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 12:49
The writers were pretty obviously considering both definitions when they named him.
His character resemble in part the aspect and the meaning of the word of the real world.
#13
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 01:43
Solas is not alone,he has plenty of friends who will help him,i will be the first one to stand for the elves revolution
#14
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 02:42
I don't post often, but this place is ok to post spoilers in, right?
Considering that spirits of wisdom can be twisted into pride demons, as Solas explains in Haven to an elfquisitor, and the following two lines from Cole in Trespasser:
"Bare-faced but free, frolicking fighting, fierce. He wants to give wisdom, not orders."
"He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face."
.... My money's firmly on Solas meaning pride, and I'm getting some pretty spoilery vibes that Solas was a spirit first, summoned into a body by Mythal, and that for a while he wore her vallaslin until he eventually perfected the technique that later allowed him to remove the marks from other elves' faces. Which is why in game Solas has a ... thing... on his forehead. Have these two lines been addressed by anyone yet?
Any other meaning to the word is probably coincidental, and I'm betting in the case of Spanish and Irish, BW's writers probably giggled secretly and slapped each other on the back, but that's it.
Edited for formatting, sorry.
- Cigne, Ieldra et Big I aiment ceci
#15
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 03:59
There's loads of associations with the root word "sol" I'm sure they weren't all intended. But associations with light and the sun might have been intended, though, and it also goes along with the idea of pride (as a corrupted spirit of wisdom maybe). He is depicted in one of his tarot cards holding a flame (as The Hermit).
He's the main antagonist figure of Dalish myth and the betrayer and god of rebellion. The references to Lucifer and other similar rebel gods and tricksters seems kind of obvious so I find it hard to believe it isn't at least partly intentional given all the religious themes in the game.
#16
Posté 29 mars 2016 - 04:25
Yeah, after all in the Fade we learn his greatest fear is dying alone.
This make me believe that his name was an artistic choice in term of meaning from the start,they chosed the Irl word Solas on purpose
#17
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 04:56
I dare say the writers saw the irony in giving him the name that is the elven word for pride, but also knowing that in our world it can mean alone, both of which do apply to him. Solas can also mean "to stand tall" in elven. This has a more positive meaning to the word "pride"; being unbowed and prepared to stand up for what your believe, which is also true of Solas. It is interesting that in an interview, PW was asked about Solas' names and it was hinted that he may have had others. We know from the ancient writings in the Temple that Abelas took that name for himself after the death of Mythal, but he was called something else when he served her and in fact changed his name from something else to do so.
So it is entirely possible that contrary to what he said, "Solas came first", that he may have been called something else before he became Solas. You can argue he was not actually lying, merely talking about the relationship between his name of Solas and the title of Dread Wolf that the Evanuris gave him, so he was Solas before he was the Dread Wolf, which he says he took because it encouraged his followers in their fight against their tyrant gods. People disagree with me but I still think that he was the person who "dared to fly in the shape of the divine", I believe was ordered to serve Mythal as punishment by Elgar'nan and was given/took the name of Solas as a result, because he had dared to assume the form of a god.
I'd still like to know what the connection is between Solas and the Temple of Solassan. Also why that city in Tevinter is called Solas. PW says that the Tevinter took over many elven sites and re-purposed them to their own use, altering and removing the signs of the early elven empire. Yet in this case they did not change the name, so why does a city just to the north of the Silent Plains have a name that is the elven word for pride?
Something else to ponder on, much of the Canticle of Shartan is based on ancient elven folktales about a "rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster warrior". So looking at it from this perspective it is interesting that when Shartan (Solas) first steps up to rally the elven slaves into continuing their fight against their oppressors, he does so from the hill top known as The Lonely One.
Is the consensus that Solas is Shartan and Mythal is Andraste? Truly?
#18
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 05:06
Cross-posting this from the Solas thread, where I coincidentally mused on this topic yesterday.
Perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way around, that Solas didn't name himself after the Elvhen word for "Pride / To stand tall", but as a result of his fame (or infamy), the Elvhen word for those concepts actually derive from his name.
We know that Weekes is a fan of Doctor Who and has cited it as inspiration for Solas. They did something similar in that show, where due to the complicated nature of time travel, his adoption of the title of "The Doctor" is an ontological paradox. He is the very reason that the concept of a "Doctor" exists in the first place, for him to take as an alias.
My thinking that it might be the same with Solas. We can guess that he's very old, so perhaps the language of the Ancient Elves actually ended up entering his former (or original) name into their lexicon, since from what we can gather, he didn't become the Dread Wolf until much later on?
#19
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 05:49
Is the consensus that Solas is Shartan and Mythal is Andraste? Truly?
Not by a long shot.
It probably came from how there were certain base similarities between Shartan/Solas (BALD! SHARTAN WAS BALD!) and Mythal/Andraste (LOOK AT THE HEADPIECE! THE HEADPIECE!) in some the chantry depictions. ![]()
Along with base similarities in theme. Rebellion against the ultimate injustice, leading the people against tyrants, etc. Typical themes used in a lot of literary works, and (presumably) the Chant of Light. They are common enough to be considered an archetype theme by some. Common enough in works as a whole to be considered a general commonality in various genres, cultures and ages. Like horoscope personality traits.
They are fun to look at, and their subsequent theories that perhaps there something greater than a mere mortal doing these things does being a sense of wonder to the world. Being intentionally designed by Bioware, it may even have a bit of validity to it (ever think they add stuff just to f** with the fandom? We know they did it with Solas's revealed identity just so you can slap your face when you replay the game). But there still the possibility that we are looking at things too much again.
#20
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 06:07
Not by a long shot.
It probably came from how there were certain base similarities between Shartan/Solas (BALD! SHARTAN WAS BALD!) and Mythal/Andraste (LOOK AT THE HEADPIECE! THE HEADPIECE!) in some the chantry depictions.
Along with base similarities in theme. Rebellion against the ultimate injustice, leading the people against tyrants, etc. Typical themes used in a lot of literary works, and (presumably) the Chant of Light. They are common enough to be considered an archetype theme by some. Common enough in works as a whole to be considered a general commonality in various genres, cultures and ages. Like horoscope personality traits.
They are fun to look at, and their subsequent theories that perhaps there something greater than a mere mortal doing these things does being a sense of wonder to the world. Being intentionally designed by Bioware, it may even have a bit of validity to it (ever think they add stuff just to f** with the fandom? We know they did it with Solas's revealed identity just so you can slap your face when you replay the game). But there still the possibility that we are looking at things too much again.
But but Mythal was BETRAYED just as Andraste was betrayed...
Nvm, Andraste's drama takes place in Tevinter and Tevinter wasn't even anything until after the fall of the elves and obviously the fall of the elves per Solas had to occur after Mythal's drama.
#21
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 06:22
I'm aware that the word mean pride in the fictional language of the elves but actually it is derived form the latin solus which means alone, sole, only, by oneself with no others around.Solas is a spanish word from solo m (feminine singular sola, masculine plural solos, feminine plural solas)which means1.sole, only, unique, single2.lonely, lonesome3.alone, by oneselfOne wonder if the writers used this word with its spanish meaning in mind as the true badge of the Dread wolf and then masked it with a new fictional meaning, at least for me the character is more represented by the spanish meaning rather than the elvhen one.
I like your idea. Because he's a lone wolf, "the last of his kind", wandering the world alone as he searches for answers to the problem he created, and ultimately afraid of dying alone, as is inscribed in his tombstone in the cemetery of greatest fears in the Fade?
Yup. I think you've got it right. ![]()
The wolf analogy might refer also to his counterpart in Norse mythology, Loki, who's a trickster like him and may become the catalyst for the end of the world, the Ragnarok.
And his history as the bringer of knowledge to the enslaved elves, so they might rebel against the false gods might be an analogy to Prometheus, the rebellious god who brought the knowledge of how to make fire, sacred knowledge, to mankind, an act forbidden by the gods that resulted in his imprisonment and subsequent eternal suffering.
There are quite a few references that were used to create Solas. So far, I can see those two. And now, a third one, thanks to you.
#22
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 06:55
Solas meaning pride? It very much fits the character.
I believe in the theory that the ancient elves were originally spirits that chose to take physical form, and that Solas is named as such because that's what he originally was; a Pride demon. If spirits can become demons why not vice versa, with a Pride demon becoming Wisdom? Cole even has clairvoyant dialogue in Trespasser that if it applies to Solas would mean that he didn't want to leave the Fade but was forced to by a summoning.
#23
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 08:44
#24
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 11:29
Let me explain about the Solas/Shartan and Mythal/Andraste references on my part. I know there have been other theories that Solas was Shartan, etc, but that is not what I am referring to. I am going by the source book World of Thedas 2 which has whole extracts from the Chant of Light in it, including the dissident verses. In the preface to the Canticle of Shartan the author, who is likely a Chantry scholar and therefore wanting to downplay Shartan's importance even if the Divine wants to restore it to the Chant, explains that the authorship of the Canticle has never been determined and the first versions of it appeared in the Dales around -140 Ancient, some thirty years after death of Andraste and twenty five after the founding of the Dales. This would have been an oral tradition because very few elves knew how to write. The author then goes on to say that there are elements of the story that appear very similar to the earlier ancient elven folk tales. The author also suggests that there may never have been a single Shartan but that it was simply a title given to a number of rebel leaders.
So what I am saying is not that Solas was Shartan in real life; I'm sure that Shartan was a real person in his own right and did inspire a rebellion of elven slaves. What I am saying is that much of the story given in the Canticle may not actually be describing the events that Shartan was involved in. What is more likely is that Shartan himself used the earlier ancient elven folk tale as an encouragement to his followers and when the elves started arriving in the Dales, many of whom had not known Shartan personally at all or been involved in his struggle, the identity of Shartan became entwined with the story he had used to inspire his followers. The story stayed as an elven tradition until it was written down in the early years of the Chantry at the behest of Justinia 1, when of course Shartan was still in favour with the Chantry.
I for one would be very disappointed if the writers do turn round later and say that Solas was Shartan. Why does Solas have to be the only elf who ever stood up for elven freedom? I've never understood why the writers don't have the Dalish making more of Shartan but then it didn't make that much sense that my Dalish Inquisitor would not know about Ameridan (since Ameridan's own clan had apparently been publicising it for years) or the precise circumstances of what sparked the war with Orlais (someone had to have buried the Emerald Knights in the tomb and left the document there); sometimes the withholding of information makes the Dalish seem very stupid at not knowing it, when in fact it is just convenient to the plot to have them in ignorance.
As for Andraste being Mythal, that is a possibility, considering that Andraste was clearly in contact with some sort of spirit and was probably possessed by it. However, why would Mythal make up a whole history of the Maker that seems to contradict what actually occurred?
What is more likely true is that again an earlier history maintained in folk legend was later mixed up with the true history of Andraste. So the story of Andraste, who was a barbarian chieftain who led an army against southern Tevinter Imperium (never got further north than Nevarra), was betrayed by her husband and died when insisting on marching on Minrathous, was mixed up with an earlier memory of Mythal marching with her host against the other mage gods in the city of Arlathan, was betrayed by someone close to her (Elgar'nan?) when going to gain strength by a silver pool (lyrium stream?) and died. This was probably a story depicted on old elven ruins, that were taken over and repurposed by later humans and thus the characters in the story became human instead of elvhen. May be her disciples even thought the pictures were somehow a prophesy by the Maker of what occurred, many of them not having actually been there so unaware of the precise events.
I still find it hard to understand how the version of Andraste's march in the Chant is so different from the actual historical events. However, initially it would seem the only thing that was known was that Maferath betrayed Andraste, the Song of Betrayal being in circulation even before Hessarian publicised events. This was of course perfectly true, he did arrange for her to be handed over to the Imperium. However, the version that appears in the modern Chant only dates to -100 Ancient, some 75 years after the event and, if my theory about what occurred with the story of Shartan is correct, then more than enough time for other mythical elements to get mixed in with the actual account of events. No one in the modern Chantry seems unduly concerned that what is contained in the Chant bears no relation to fact, so may be the earlier disciples weren't that bothered either; the legend of Andraste had outgrown the real woman.
- Sah291 et dawnstone aiment ceci
#25
Posté 31 mars 2016 - 12:06
If Solas and Mythal are supposed to have parallels to Shartan and Andraste, I think you're probably right. That is is how folkore really works, anyway, legends getting mixed up with different real historical events over time... Mythical history doesn't really recount the historical facts of a people as they literally happened, so much as the spiritual, symbolic, and cultural values of a people. It happens to the Inquistitor in game even, being compared to Andraste. It's not that the Inquistitor is really the same as Andraste, but is carrying on what Andraste stood for, in spirit.





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