23 réponses à ce sujet

[kuroneko]

Is this only my imagination, or elves realy dont apply magic defense (from armor, as example) after 25% racial projectives defense?

[PapaCharlie9]

Is this only my imagination, or elves realy dont apply magic defense (from armor, as example) after 25% racial projectives defense?

Some confusion here? Maybe language barrier?

Elves get 25% ranged defense.

Dwarves get 25% magic defense.

So did you mean elves or did you mean magic defense, and thus, dwarves?

If your gear (armor) is adding Willpower, that doesn't kick in until after Willpower is 10. If your Willpower is 0 and you add gear that is +5 Willpower, you won't gain any magic defense bonus.

[kuroneko]

Indeed, english is not my native language, sorry.

But as stated here https://twitter.com/...150903999102977

elf racial also protect from ranged magic attacks. When i get attacked from Wrath (spirit ranged) i get bigger numbers with elf (armor&accessories 80% magic def) than

human (also 80% magic def). Maybe it just random don't like my Elfquisitor

 

P.S. After some crafting and tests i see my mistake.

Human 80% magic def:  23 23 24 22 25 23 25 23 25 24

Human 80% spirit resist:16 15 16 17 16 17 17 15 16 16

Human naked:                112 112 121 115 114 112 120 115 115 117   

Elf 80% magic defense:  27 27 26 27 27 27 26 27 26 28

Elf 80% spirit resitanse:  18 20 19 20 18 20 19 19 18 18

Elf naked:                        96 89 99 90 89 97 90 92 95 91

Modifié par kuroneko, 30 mars 2016 - 07:22 .

[PapaCharlie9]

Indeed, english is not my native language, sorry.
But as stated here https://twitter.com/...150903999102977
elf racial also protect from ranged magic attacks. When i get attacked from Wrath (spirit ranged) i get bigger numbers with elf (armor&accessories 80% magic def) than
human (also 80% magic def). Maybe it just random don't like my Elfquisitor
 
P.S. After some crafting and tests i see my mistake.
Human 80% magic def:  23 23 24 22 25 23 25 23 25 24
Human 80% spirit resist:16 15 16 17 16 17 17 15 16 16
Human naked:                112 112 121 115 114 112 120 115 115 117   
Elf 80% magic defense:  27 27 26 27 27 27 26 27 26 28
Elf 80% spirit resitanse:  18 20 19 20 18 20 19 19 18 18
Elf naked:                        96 89 99 90 89 97 90 92 95 91

Wow. I had no idea that Ranged Defense helped at all with magic projectiles. Not even sure what those are, other than the Descent lyrium bolters.

I'm shocked that an elf gets any protection from Wraiths magic missiles, particularly spirit magic. This is an excellent test, thank you!

[PawsPause]

Wow. I had no idea that Ranged Defense helped at all with magic projectiles. Not even sure what those are, other than the Descent lyrium bolters.

I'm shocked that an elf gets any protection from Wraiths magic missiles, particularly spirit magic. This is an excellent test, thank you!

whoa whoa time out. Ranged Magic attack is also counted as ranged attacks? I thought this was only enemies archers that counted as ranged attackers. If thats the case, it would make more sense to put more into ranged defense than magic defense. Mind blown lol

[PawsPause]

Indeed, english is not my native language, sorry.
But as stated here https://twitter.com/...150903999102977
elf racial also protect from ranged magic attacks. When i get attacked from Wrath (spirit ranged) i get bigger numbers with elf (armor&accessories 80% magic def) than
human (also 80% magic def). Maybe it just random don't like my Elfquisitor
 
P.S. After some crafting and tests i see my mistake.
Human 80% magic def:  23 23 24 22 25 23 25 23 25 24
Human 80% spirit resist:16 15 16 17 16 17 17 15 16 16
Human naked:                112 112 121 115 114 112 120 115 115 117   
Elf 80% magic defense:  27 27 26 27 27 27 26 27 26 28
Elf 80% spirit resitanse:  18 20 19 20 18 20 19 19 18 18
Elf naked:                        96 89 99 90 89 97 90 92 95 91

Was that tweet about Inquisitions tho? That was tweeted a few months before the release of inquisitions. I do remember them releasing race classes and what they start off with but im not sure. I was just double checking.

[PapaCharlie9]

Was that tweet about Inquisitions tho? That was tweeted a few months before the release of inquisitions. I do remember them releasing race classes and what they start off with but im not sure. I was just double checking.

The numbers don't lie. If those damage numbers are accurate, naked elf takes less damage than naked human, vs. a Wraith.

[capn233]

The big thread regarding mechanics lists ranged defense as only vs physical attacks, but anecdotally I don't think this was actually correct, at the very least for all sources of ranged defense.

 

Specifically, I thought I remembered Turn the Bolt reducing Wraith damage, despite it being spirit.  Could look at it again I suppose.

[Brother Juniper]

The numbers also suggest that magic resistance reduces spirit damage. I've read some comments that magic resistance has no affect on spirit damage. Now I don't know what to think.

[PapaCharlie9]

The numbers also suggest that magic resistance reduces spirit damage. I've read some comments that magic resistance has no affect on spirit damage. Now I don't know what to think.

You probably read this already, but just in case, start at this post and read through capn233's test results:

http://forum.bioware...3#entry20163754

[capn233]

Quick test for ranged defense.  Fallow Mire has spots where it will spawn lone Wraiths, so that is where I went.

 

Setup 1

 

Crafted Sturdy Battlemaster Mail, Crafted Helm of Inquisitor, No Belt, Superb Cunning Amulet

 

Magic Def 46
Melee Def 13
Ranged Def 21
Cold R 44
Elect R 30
Fire R 30
Spirit R 30

 

 

 

Wraith did 42 - 46 spirit damage per hit

 

Setup 2

 

Crafted Armor same as above, but 14% Cold Resistance changed to 7% Ranged Defense.  Helmet and Amulet same, added Superb Belt of Ranged Defense

 

Magic Def 46
Melee Def 13
Ranged Def 38
Cold R 30
Elect R 30
Fire R 30
Spirit R 30

 

 

 

Wraith did 42 - 46 spirit damage per hit

 

Setup 3

 

No Armor, No Helmet, No Amulet, No Belt

 

Magic Def 14
Melee Def 13
Ranged Def 16
Cold R 30
Elect R 30
Fire R 30
Spirit R 30

 

 

 

Wraith did 66 - 72 spirit damage per hit

 

Setup 4

 

Add Superb Cunning Amulet and Superb Belt of Ranged Defense to Setup 3

 

Magic Def 14
Melee Def 13
Ranged Def 31
Cold R 30
Elect R 30
Fire R 30
Spirit R 30

 

 

 

Wraith did 66 - 73 spirit damage per hit.

 

Setup 5

 

Identical to Setup 4, except respec'd to switch Shield Wall and Bear Mauls the Wolves to Payback Strike and Turn the Bolt.

 

 

 

 

Wraith did 28 - 30 spirit damage per hit in the frontal cone, and 67 - 73 spirit damage per hit in the rear cone.

 

***

 

I didn't like not being able to swing Ranged Defense more, but ranged defense bonus from armor and gear seemed to have no effect on Wraith damage, or if it did it was so small as to be hidden by the RNG range of the hits.  Could tease that out over many trials, but someone else can do that.

 

Turn the Bolt, on the other hand, clearly reduced the spirit damage from Wraiths in the frontal cone.

[PapaCharlie9]

17% difference in Ranged Def should have been enough to show a difference. kuroneko was getting approx. 25 points difference on (coincidentally) +25% Ranged Def difference.

There's a chance it could be a race specific bonus, that only elves get the extra magic missile protection on top of "normal" Ranged Def.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

17% difference in Ranged Def should have been enough to show a difference. kuroneko was getting approx. 25 points difference on (coincidentally) +25% Ranged Def difference.

There's a chance it could be a race specific bonus, that only elves get the extra magic missile protection on top of "normal" Ranged Def.

 

So only Elves have Ranged Defense for magic ?

[PapaCharlie9]

So only Elves have Ranged Defense for magic ?

Hypothesis (guess), trying to reconcile data from two different tests.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Hypothesis (guess), trying to reconcile data from two different tests.

 

So...Elven master race ? I mean you can replicate the racial abilities of every other race via enchantment or amulet but Elves' one seems to be partially unique.

[BansheeOwnage]

Heads up guys, one of the MP devs once explained how ranged vs. non-ranged defense works. It's actually as simply as distance. If an archer is right beside you, your ranged defense is worthless and your melee defense will apply. If anything is farther than about 3 meters from you, it's "ranged".

[PawsPause]

Heads up guys, one of the MP devs once explained how ranged vs. non-ranged defense works. It's actually as simply as distance. If an archer is right beside you, your ranged defense is worthless and your melee defense will apply. If anything is farther than about 3 meters from you, it's "ranged".

Including Wraiths and despair demons when they fire their projectiles?

[kuroneko]

So only Elves have Ranged Defense for magic ?

Yes, and only racial 25%.

[capn233]

Including Wraiths and despair demons when they fire their projectiles?

 

In my current solo run with Bear Mauls the Wolves, I noticed that I was only taking 1 damage per hit from an Arcane if I was in "melee range" with my back facing it.

 

As far as my test above, I am confident I was outside of melee range each time.  Also unclear to me how far 3m in "game distance" actually is because it seems for BMtW to work against archers and the like, they need to be pretty close.

 

Whatever that case may be, standard ranged and melee defense was supposed to apply to physical damage only according to the mechanics thread.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

In my current solo run with Bear Mauls the Wolves, I noticed that I was only taking 1 damage per hit from an Arcane if I was in "melee range" with my back facing it.

 

As far as my test above, I am confident I was outside of melee range each time.  Also unclear to me how far 3m in "game distance" actually is because it seems for BMtW to work against archers and the like, they need to be pretty close.

 

Whatever that case may be, standard ranged and melee defense was supposed to apply to physical damage only according to the mechanics thread.

 

Has anyone tried to do any testing with Elves ?

[stop_him]

Doesn't ranged defense also include ranged magic attacks? So it's not just arrows, but also fireballs and the like. I seem to recall someone mentioning that at some point.

[capn233]

Has anyone tried to do any testing with Elves ?

 
kuroneko in this thread is the first time I had seen numbers for that.
 
I am not sure how it is coded or what it is actually doing.  Turn the Bolt is probably reducing any attack from >3m in the frontal cone and might be a separate call from the defenses.  Perhaps Elf passive defense is supposed to buff magic defense if an attack from >3m is classed as a magic attack, or ranged defense if classed as physical.  Not sure, but that would be one way to explain why the wraith damage was basically the same for human and elf when magic defense resist was maxed.  Of course, I would expect that the elf would have taken slightly lower damage with the maxed spirit resist since extra magic defense should have reduced it more than the human so I really am not sure how it is works.

 

 

 

Doesn't ranged defense also include ranged magic attacks? So it's not just arrows, but also fireballs and the like. I seem to recall someone mentioning that at some point.

 

I don't know if anybody actually said that before, but that was part of what I tried to test above.  Mechanics thread quote, granted some of the info in the thread is outdated.

 

 

• defense: Either the melee defense (vs. melee physical damage), ranged defense (vs. ranged physical damage), or magic defense (vs. magic damage) stat of the defender, depending on the type of incoming damage. Capped at a maximum value of 80%.
• front_defense: Additional defense only applied against non-flanking attacks (see the General Mechanics section for information on what constitutes flanking attacks). Unlike the general defense stat, the same front_defense value is used for all types of attacks (melee, ranged, and magic). Capped at a maximum value of 80%.

[Dabrikishaw]

I like that over a year  and a half after release, there's still new information being discovered about this game.

[BansheeOwnage]

Including Wraiths and despair demons when they fire their projectiles?

Honestly, I'm not sure if it applies to magical attacks. My gut says yes, but I don't know for sure, sorry.

 

I like that over a year  and a half after release, there's still new information being discovered about this game.

I like that too, when it comes to story aspects and the like. I don't like it for mechanics. We should know how those work right off the bat. Hopefully the next game has more info and better tooltip descriptions. Oh, and working abilities at launch to go with them