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[dawnstone]

Wait what?

well, since you put that image into my head, might as well share how it devolved in my head.

Solas: "Well, now you know my plan and don't have an arm anymore. Bye."

Inq: "Wait. Before you go. Let's f*ck."

Solas: "Seriously?"

Inq: "NOW!"

*Some months later, at some point before or during DA4. In a letter to Solas.*

So, remember that day you cut off my arm? Well, we have a child now.. Thouhgt you may want to know.

Cya.

Ex-Inquisitorial Inquisitor."

... That does exist, in fanfiction form. Not that you asked. XD

[AlanC9]

Then I find out that he didn't save my life. He tried to purposefully blow me up to get his magic orb working so he could tear down the Veil and destroy the current world because and ancient god incapable of feeling much, if anything, for modern Thedosians. He CAUSED the Breach that almost killed me... and CAUSED the Mark that almost killed me and ALLOWED the mark to continue causing me pain through the entire game... while never telling me anything. All of this, while unleashing an ancient Tevinter Magister on Thedas because his latest scheme failed like the rest.

Wait a second. Do we actually find out that Solas didn't save the PC's life?

It's also not clear that Solas and the PC even had a better option than allowing the Mark to stay on the PC.

[Abyss108]

Wait a second. Do we actually find out that Solas didn't save the PC's life?

It's also not clear that Solas and the PC even had a better option than allowing the Mark to stay on the PC.

 

I'm guessing it doesn't count because he caused the issue in the first place.

[Sah291]

Wait a second. Do we actually find out that Solas didn't save the PC's life?
It's also not clear that Solas and the PC even had a better option than allowing the Mark to stay on the PC.

No, he still does save save your life... And he wasn't trying to kill you specifically at the conclave, you were a nobody who just happened to be there. I also don't agree he expected it to play out that way (with the breach and all), there was no reason for him to risk Cory coming to power like that, and he didn't want to drop the Veil partly or bust a hole in it. He wanted to eliminate it completely.

So I think he expected Cory to die trying to unlock the orb during the ritual, and then take it back and unlock it himself. Would there still have been a giant explosion if that happened? We don't really know...the world would have been enveloped in chaos nevertheless, and the new world would rise out of the ashes of the old. But that may have been a rhetorical point about what would happen as a consequence.

I get what Medhia_Nox means though. It was his fault and he was the one who put all the events in motion that caused you to get hurt in the first place. He saved you. But it was his fault you almost died, and his fault the orb fell into your hands.

[nightscrawl]

Wait a second. Do we actually find out that Solas didn't save the PC's life?

It's also not clear that Solas and the PC even had a better option than allowing the Mark to stay on the PC.

I believe Medhia Nox is referring to the fact that it is, according to Solas, only a temporary reprieve, since his plan will kill everyone.
 
In Trespasser, Sera's journal has the lines,
- Don't say the Inquisitor's hand looks bad.
- It looks very bad.

... which are available before the hand starts exploding, suggesting that it had been deteriorating for some time. It seems that three years or so was about the length of time that a non-Solas person could have with the Anchor before it started to impact their health.

While he may be responsible for the Anchor's new explosive abilities (is he? I'm not entirely certain), I believe Solas when he says that he's actually doing you a favor and that only he can survive with it.

[midnight tea]

As much of a hard on I have for Solas, I must completely agree that his info dump in Trespasser was a bit of bad writing. I mean, the scene's direction and music and lead-up are of course gorgeous and climactic, but so much of the past was presented like a strict Q&A in the dialogue, which, given her out-of-control mark and everything, seemed awkward.

 

That said, when other videogames use flashbacks, I also cringe, so my tiny brain isn't really able to come up with a better way to present information, but I'm certain just stating things has always been advised against in writing 101.

 

Considering that the DLC itself was specifically built on us reaching Solas and him answering our questions it would be a disappointment if he didn't spend at least 10 minutes to throw some light on what the hell's going on. It's as deliberate as you get it. Not all "info dump" is 'bad writing' - you can't think about such rules in such absolute terms.

And do note that a lot of the info Solas gives us still relies a lot on information we uncovered by traveling through all the DLC the locations, so Trespasser is chock-full of showing, on which Solas merely expands on. 

[midnight tea]

I believe Medhia Nox is referring to the fact that it is, according to Solas, only a temporary reprieve, since his plan will kill everyone.

 

In Trespasser, Sera's journal has the lines,

- Don't say the Inquisitor's hand looks bad.

- It looks very bad.

 

... which are available before the hand starts exploding, suggesting that it had been deteriorating for some time. It seems that three years or so was about the length of time that a non-Solas person could have with the Anchor before it started to impact their health.

 

While he may be responsible for the Anchor's new explosive abilities (is he? I'm not entirely certain), I believe Solas when he says that he's actually doing you a favor and that only he can survive with it.

 

Actually, if you thank him for saving life in the first minutes of the game, he does say that the whole adventure may yet eventually result with Inky's death - and when we talk with Cassandra in Haven, Solas merely states (according to Cass) that the Mark is now stable. Nowhere in the game he claims with absolute certainty that the Anchor is safe and will remain so till their natural death, and I think everyone is pretty much aware of it, considering that it's a piece of unknown magic. 

 

And even Solas, Anchor's owner/crator, appeared to be constantly surprised that Inky can handle the Anchor to any extent at all, so it's safe to say that there were too many unknowns to assume at any time that Inquisitor is safe.

[Addictress]

Considering that the DLC itself was specifically built on us reaching Solas and him answering our questions it would be a disappointment if he didn't spend at least 10 minutes to throw some light on what the hell's going on. It's as deliberate as you get it. Not all "info dump" is 'bad writing' - you can't think about such rules in such absolute terms.
And do note that a lot of the info Solas gives us still relies a lot on information we uncovered by traveling through all the DLC the locations, so Trespasser is chock-full of showing, on which Solas merely expands on.

Well it wasn't just an absolute rule - it felt kinda bad to me too, like a poorly scripted scene in a movie.

Trespasser IS much more full of showing(and overall) much better than the rest of the game, and it's like one of the best DLC's I've played. But I think a lot of that is attributable to the music, environment, and basic scenario....the plot? I guess? But separately the method by which the info is dumped at the end is a bit awkward.

[Sah291]

They lulled us into a false sense of security with the anchor, considering it never acts up again until the DLC... It doesn't really feel like a threat until then. But yeah, it was never guaranteed to last or be stable forever. He only temporarily saves your life, twice, buying you time. He probably had no idea how long it would last. If he expected Cory to die immediately, it was an anomaly that Quizzy survived at all.

[kimgoold]

While I find the character the best villain  to date in DA I have grown to hate the character, especially his arrogant and duplicitous nature. I would love to see him unmasked in the next instalment as the Trickster God Of Misfortune the Dalish legends make him out to be. After all these legends were passed along by those he screwed over originally - the enslaved elves serving the Elvhen elite and the Evanuris.

 

But this doesn't take away from the brilliant writing of the character. If we love/hate him this much.

[midnight tea]

Well it wasn't just an absolute rule - it felt kinda bad to me too, like a poorly scripted scene in a movie.

 

I guess it's a matter of personal taste then. It felt appropriate for me given what the DLC was building to ("I suspect you have questions"), and I know that I wasn't the only one.

[Medhia_Nox]

Wait a second. Do we actually find out that Solas didn't save the PC's life?

It's also not clear that Solas and the PC even had a better option than allowing the Mark to stay on the PC.

If I poison you.. then give you the antidote.. is that "really" saving your life? 

Solas is the reason you're in the position you're in... and he takes the mark AFTER your use is over.  

 

Is this not clear from the story? 

[Medhia_Nox]

This is why the beginning of Inquisition is a failure. 

 

The game should have made you care about people at the gathering... and then reveal that Solas killed them. 

 

It's amazing how little his fans care about all the lives he's responsible for taking.

 

And now I'm sure I'm going to have to hear nonsense about the "game" aspect of a cRPG where I'm forced to kill thousands of bad guys because this isn't a real RPG and I can't avoid combat.

[nightscrawl]

Actually, if you thank him for saving life in the first minutes of the game, he does say that the whole adventure may yet eventually result with Inky's death - and when we talk with Cassandra in Haven, Solas merely states (according to Cass) that the Mark is now stable. Nowhere in the game he claims with absolute certainty that the Anchor is safe and will remain so till their natural death, and I think everyone is pretty much aware of it, considering that it's a piece of unknown magic. 

 

And even Solas, Anchor's owner/crator, appeared to be constantly surprised that Inky can handle the Anchor to any extent at all, so it's safe to say that there were too many unknowns to assume at any time that Inquisitor is safe.

 

I was referring to the Trespasser content, not the base game.

[Xerrai]

If I poison you.. then give you the antidote.. is that "really" saving your life? 

Solas is the reason you're in the position you're in... and he takes the mark AFTER your use is over.  

 

Is this not clear from the story? 

It's clear that he didn't expect Cory or the Inquisitor to live when the orb was activated. The subsequent mark that ingrained itself on the Inquisitor was an unintended and unforeseen consequence of his hubris. But as he made clear, he saw the Inquisition (and the Inquisitor by extension) as the best chance the world had for closing the breach and the rifts. Not him. The Inquisition.

 

He saves your life first by attempting to make the mark stable. Which he does. But it is almost apparent that he didn't expect it to stay there forever. The fact that you lived at all exceeded his expectations. He could have let the mark do you, let it consume you till you were torn up...but he didn't. The reason for why however may differ based on how the Inquisitor conducted him/herself. So yes, despite the fact that he caused it in the first place, he saved your life.

[Medhia_Nox]

It's clear that he didn't expect Cory or the Inquisitor to live when the orb was activated. The subsequent mark that ingrained itself on the Inquisitor was an unintended and unforeseen consequence of his hubris. But as he made clear, he saw the Inquisition (and the Inquisitor by extension) as the best chance the world had for closing the breach and the rifts. Not him. The Inquisition.

 

He saves your life first by attempting to make the mark stable. Which he does. But it is almost apparent that he didn't expect it to stay there forever. The fact that you lived at all exceeded his expectations. He could have let the mark do you, let it consume you till you were torn up...but he didn't. The reason for why however may differ based on how the Inquisitor conducted him/herself. So yes, despite the fact that he caused it in the first place, he saved your life.

 

Really?  OKay.  Can't argue with this at all. 

 

I'll maintain only that I'm not grateful for his magnanimity. 

[nightscrawl]

Really?  OKay.  Can't argue with this at all. 

 

I'll maintain only that I'm not grateful for his magnanimity. 

 

I thought this was clear in the final scene itself. Then again, I've only ever seen the friendship version. Serious question: why did you think otherwise?

[Xerrai]

This is why the beginning of Inquisition is a failure. 

 

The game should have made you care about people at the gathering... and then reveal that Solas killed them. 

 

It's amazing how little his fans care about all the lives he's responsible for taking.

 

And now I'm sure I'm going to have to hear nonsense about the "game" aspect of a cRPG where I'm forced to kill thousands of bad guys because this isn't a real RPG and I can't avoid combat.

 

JUST the people at the conclave? Too small Medihia_Nox, too small.

I'd say everything after the veil went up (slavery, oppression, war) is largely due to him. For things like the humans and qunari (probably. Maybe.), we can say he was largely ignorant of their encroachment and how they would end up, but the elves? The years of enslavement, oppression and their subsequent fall? The lives that were claimed by his actions far surpass the number of those at the conclave which are puny by comparison. And that was likely unintentional.

 

This is not even counting the lives that he likely already took intentionally with his rebellion. Or his modern-Thedas operations (remember Felassan?). The conclave is simply small by comparison.

[Medhia_Nox]

I thought this was clear in the final scene itself. Then again, I've only ever seen the friendship version. Serious question: why did you think otherwise?

 

Why do I think he tried to kill me twice? 

 

Because I lived despite him at the Conclave. 

 

And because he "could" have removed the Mark earlier... and, if he could not... he could have come clean at the very beginning of the game.

 

I have a HUGE problem with him lying to me for a year... 

 

Had he said, at the very beginning of the game:  "I am such and such... this is what happened..."  You would hear a VERY different opinion of Solas from me.

 

IF he is simply a victim of "shock" writing.. then shame on Bioware.  In fact... if this is the case, then I really question whether or not to even continue with Bioware stories... cause I find this kind of writing unforgivable.

 

Otherwise, I consider him a manipulator and liar who tried to kill me TWICE... but discovered that the second time, he could use me instead, and kept me alive to serve his purposes.

 

I actually cannot see it any other way. 

 

@Xerrai:  And yet none of that slaughter stops his fanbase.

 

Honestly.. he would make Khorne proud.

[Sah291]

This is why the beginning of Inquisition is a failure. 
 
The game should have made you care about people at the gathering... and then reveal that Solas killed them. 
 
It's amazing how little his fans care about all the lives he's responsible for taking.
 
And now I'm sure I'm going to have to hear nonsense about the "game" aspect of a cRPG where I'm forced to kill thousands of bad guys because this isn't a real RPG and I can't avoid combat.

It was designed to make it seem like you really might have been guilty, at first, IMO.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sah291:  Possible, though again I think they failed at that.  

 

Even "if" we were at fault... what would it matter?  On a meta-level "we" know we had no control.

[Xerrai]

Why do I think he tried to kill me twice? 

 

Because I lived despite him at the Conclave. 

 

And because he "could" have removed the Mark earlier... and, if he could not... he could have come clean at the very beginning of the game.

 

I have a HUGE problem with him lying to me for a year... 

 

Had he said, at the very beginning of the game:  "I am such and such... this is what happened..."  You would hear a VERY different opinion of Solas from me.

 

IF he is simply a victim of "shock" writing.. then shame on Bioware.  In fact... if this is the case, then I really question whether or not to even continue with Bioware stories... cause I find this kind of writing unforgivable.

 

Otherwise, I consider him a manipulator and liar who tried to kill me TWICE... but discovered that the second time, he could use me instead, and kept me alive to serve his purposes.

 

I actually cannot see it any other way. 

 

@Xerrai:  And yet none of that slaughter stops his fanbase.

 

Honestly.. he would make Khorne proud.

I don't want to sound rude here, but stop them from what?

There are few thing more jarring than outright admitting that he is going to kill thousands upon thousands when the veil is torn down. The character Solas, downright says--to our face--that he is going to slaughter thousands when his plans come to fruition. There is no member of the fanbase (save for an really extreme few) that denies this. Were the deaths a the Conclave/Inquisition supposed to be more significant than that or...

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xerrai:  You're not being rude... it is true, I cannot conceive of "loving" a character hellbent on an apocalypse. 

 

Or a man who so carelessly kills thousands to activate his Magic 8 Ball.

 

No, the Conclave just happens to be the place where he tries to kill "you/me/every player". 

 

I tend not to love people that didn't manage to kill me by incompetence. 

 

"Oh, I caused that explosion that destroyed the building... but, lucky for you you escaped... can I take you out for a nice dinner?" 

 

EDIT:  He'll only tell you he caused the accident that almost killed you... after he's done using you to stop something that is interfering with his plans.

[midnight tea]

This is why the beginning of Inquisition is a failure. 

 

The game should have made you care about people at the gathering... and then reveal that Solas killed them. 

 

It's amazing how little his fans care about all the lives he's responsible for taking.

 

I love how you keep unsubtly belittling anyone who dares to like or understand the character.

 

And that's even when we don't know if Solas expected AT ALL that Corypheus plan is going to end exactly like it did. Judging from his reaction on the Breach and the fact that he risks his life and plans to seal it, I'm sad to point out to you that it isn't certain at all, therefore your valiant attempts to make Solas 'fans' as unfeeling monsters fails again.

[nightscrawl]

Why do I think he tried to kill me twice? 

 

Because I lived despite him at the Conclave. 

 

And because he "could" have removed the Mark earlier... and, if he could not... he could have come clean at the very beginning of the game.

 

I have a HUGE problem with him lying to me for a year... 

 

Had he said, at the very beginning of the game:  "I am such and such... this is what happened..."  You would hear a VERY different opinion of Solas from me.

 

IF he is simply a victim of "shock" writing.. then shame on Bioware.  In fact... if this is the case, then I really question whether or not to even continue with Bioware stories... cause I find this kind of writing unforgivable.

 

Otherwise, I consider him a manipulator and liar who tried to kill me TWICE... but discovered that the second time, he could use me instead, and kept me alive to serve his purposes.

 

I actually cannot see it any other way. 

 

@Xerrai:  And yet none of that slaughter stops his fanbase.

 

Honestly.. he would make Khorne proud.

 

That's not what I meant...

 

You bolded the portion of Xerrai's post that said, "He could have let the mark do you, let it consume you till you were torn up...but he didn't," and replied,

 

Really?  OKay.  Can't argue with this at all. 

 

I'll maintain only that I'm not grateful for his magnanimity. 

 

Which makes it seem like you didn't take the same meaning from the scene, which is that Solas does in fact save you in the Trespasser scene. Sure, all of his actions put you in danger in the first place, but he does save you in that one moment.

 

That is why I asked why you thought otherwise.