4630 réponses à ce sujet

[IllustriousT]

So, I was watching The Walking Dead the other night, and it occurred to me that Rick Grimes has some similarities to Solas. 

 

1. Rick wakes up in a world where the majority of humans have been rendered immortal flesh eaters where once there were mortals. Solas wakes up in a world of mortals where once there were immortals. 

 

2. Rick joins a group of survivors. Solas joins a group of survivors.

 

3. Rick fights for his life in a world of undead. Solas fights for his life in a world of demons, undead, blighted, and tranquil .

 

4. Rick and the others want to find a way to cure this disease of immortality. Solas wants to cure this "disease" of mortality. 

 

5. Rick and the others would "restart" the current world. Solas wants to "restart" the current world. 

 

 

Hmm...Maybe to Solas - the rest of Thedas is like a zombie infested world. 

[Medhia_Nox]

So, I was watching The Walking Dead the other night, and it occurred to me that Rick Grimes has some similarities to Solas. 

 

1. Rick wakes up in a world where the majority of humans have been rendered immortal flesh eaters where once there were mortals. Solas wakes up in a world of mortals where once there were immortals. 

 

2. Rick joins a group of survivors. Solas joins a group of survivors.

 

3. Rick fights for his life in a world of undead. Solas fights for his life in a world of demons, undead, blighted, and tranquil .

 

4. Rick and the others want to find a way to cure this disease of immortality. Solas wants to cure this "disease" of mortality. 

 

5. Rick and the other would "restart" the current world. Solas wants to "restart" the current world. 

 

 

Hmm...Maybe to Solas - the rest of Thedas is like a zombie infestated world. 

 

Are you on season 2 or something? 

 

The delusion of "going back" is long over for Rick and Co. 

[dawnstone]

He doesn't say people will die?

 

Let's not.

[Medhia_Nox]

 

Let's not.

 

Let's not... what?  Take Solas' words as concise and truthful and not melodramatic and flowery? 

[IllustriousT]

Are you on season 2 or something? 

 

The delusion of "going back" is long over for Rick and Co. 

 

It's delusional for them because they cannot change it - Solas believes he can.

 

They certainly wanted to and tried - still would if they could - even if it meant their lives, and every other survivor. If zombies infested the world, and you had to sacrifice all those zombies and remaining survivors to be reborn...most people would do so. 

 

----

I haven't seen Season 6 yet - no spoilers please.

[dawnstone]

Let's not... what?  Take Solas' words as concise and truthful and not melodramatic and flowery? 

Blocking you. Please do not ever talk to me.

[Illegitimus]

Let's not... what?  Take Solas' words as concise and truthful and not melodramatic and flowery? 

 

 

Yes.  Let's not.  After all Solas claimed that he had destroyed the world.  It is fairly obvious that he did not.  

[Xerrai]

Let's not... what?  Take Solas' words as concise and truthful and not melodramatic and flowery? 

I could have sworn we have been over this topic at least a few times in this thread already. Do we really need to go in circles over the same thing again?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Let's not.

Off-topic, but you get a like for reminding me of that movie.

[Almostfaceman]

 

I haven't seen Season 6 yet - no spoilers please.

 

I haven't seen the 2nd half of Season 6, dodging youtube videos with spoilers is like taking all of my ninja dodging powers to over 9000. 

[Sah291]

Hmm...Maybe to Solas - the rest of Thedas is like a zombie infested world.

I think so. He says they weren't people to him, at first.

I think it was meant to parallel how the rebel mages regarded actual Tranquil during their war. They made mages uncomfortable, they couldn't fight, and were a symbol of everything they were fighting against, so they just kind of forgot about them and left them behind to die or fend for themselves.

Look what happened on TWD. Most of the weak were culled early on by the zombies. Those who can't fight or defend themselves tend to die off quickly, unless they can get someone to protect them. Most of Rick's core group are skilled fighters by now.

It could be that most of modern Thedas simply doesn't have the skills to survive long without the Veil. Look at all the people and spirits that perished during the breach and imagine that chaos many times over. In fact, the breach would have proven that fact to Solas, if he had any doubt.

[Sah291]

It also occurs to me it may not be so simple for Solas to quit, even if he did change his mind. He spent at least a year laying the groundwork before joining the Inquisitor. He has who knows how many followers spread around Thedas. They are just gonna pack up and go home if he quits? Not likely.

By the end of Tresspasser, the Inquisitor can barely keep tabs on their own organization. It's not so easy.

Solas worried about what the darkspawn would do without an archdemon to lead them. What if he felt that way about his own rebellion he created? Just a thought.

[midnight tea]

It also occurs to me it may not be so simple for Solas to quit, even if he did change his mind. He spent at least a year laying the groundwork before joining the Inquisitor. He has who knows how many followers spread around Thedas. They are just gonna pack up and go home if he quits? Not likely.

By the end of Tresspasser, the Inquisitor can barely keep tabs on their own organization. It's not so easy.

Solas worried about what the darkspawn would do without an archdemon to lead them. What if he felt that way about his own rebellion he created? Just a thought.

 

Yeah, even if he didn't do much over the course of year prior to Inquisition (which I doubt) it's naive to think he just can call it quits anytime. We know from TME and Trespasser that he led his people while he was still unconscious and barring all the things he couldn't foresee or control, he's probably been organizing the whole thing for the better part of his time in Uthenera (same way Flemeth hasn't been wasting er time just surviving and pretending to be an apostate hobo). At this point it's a matter of momentum - this train has reached its full speed and it's not as simple as pulling the breaks.

[roselavellan]

For anyone who's interested I posted a topic covering my opinion on this matter and I've covered it in this thread as well. 

 

http://forum.bioware...-and-the-elves/

 

That was an interesting read. I must have missed it the first time, thanks for bringing it up here. I had always assumed his line "the return of my people mean the end of yours" meant that both modern elves and other races would perish for the ancient elves to be restored. It feels good to be presented with some hope that this may not be the case after all.

[Ellawynn]

Life doesn't materialize perfect solutions no, but that is part of the fascination with video games, that you can save the world, become the hero and all that.

I have enough depression in real life, I don't need it in my games just cuz '' REALISM!!! EDGINESS!!! SAD FEELS!!!! ''

That's not to say bad things shouldn't happen in games, but that storyline makes me want to throw myself off the cliff for how depressing it is and how useless I would feel living through my DA PC's, building them and caring for them.. Everything just comes crashing down and that's not entertaining for me.

 

I can understand wanting escapism in fiction. But not all fiction needs to provide escapism, even video games.

 

It would also add an interesting parallel (Upon the mountain of other interesting parallels) to Solas' story - in his own words, "sometimes all you have are terrible choices." If nothing else, it might provide a shot of empathy to those who think Solas is just an evil idiot acting for no reason.

 

And it doesn't have to be all bad. Maybe the Qunari figure out how to strip away magic while leaving emotion intact - in which case it's less "A literal world of Tranquil" and more "A world with no magic, elves, or spirits." (Re: Our normal world... uh, plus a few dwarves and horned dudes, I guess.) Maybe Solas figures out how to make his plan a little less deadly, and now magic and spirits can return to the world in full... at the cost of those who are unable to adapt(Rather than at the cost of literally everyone.) It doesn't have to be a choice between three different flavors of apocalypse, where everyone dies/becomes a zombie no matter what. But... I dunno, it'd be way more interesting (To me) then you saving the world and getting the girl and everything in the universe bending around you because you're the "hero."

 

The board theme in Dragon Age appears to be the change between old and new, magic and mundane. The Templar/Mage conflict is perhaps the most prominent example of this, but other things - The Temple of Mythal, the dying dwarves and elves, pretty much everything relating to Solas - touches on the question of "Is magic worth preserving when it poses such a danger?" This would be the ultimate decision on that matter - allow magic to flourish (At the cost of many lives), or cut it out entirely (Relinquishing all wonders and benefits it can bring.)

[Lezio]

So, I was watching The Walking Dead the other night, and it occurred to me that Rick Grimes has some similarities to Solas. 
 
1. Rick wakes up in a world where the majority of humans have been rendered immortal flesh eaters where once there were mortals. Solas wakes up in a world of mortals where once there were immortals. 
 
2. Rick joins a group of survivors. Solas joins a group of survivors.
 
3. Rick fights for his life in a world of undead. Solas fights for his life in a world of demons, undead, blighted, and tranquil .
 
4. Rick and the others want to find a way to cure this disease of immortality. Solas wants to cure this "disease" of mortality. 
 
5. Rick and the others would "restart" the current world. Solas wants to "restart" the current world. 
 
 
Hmm...Maybe to Solas - the rest of Thedas is like a zombie infested world.

 
Also, Rick caused the zombie apocalypse and, later, was responsible for the death of even more people (and is currently going for genocide)
 
Sorry for the sarcasm, i just don't really think they're even remotely similiar, and this above is just the tip of the iceberg
 
Solas, in my opinion, is more like Shane. Prone to outright damage others for the sake of those he cares about (whom in Solas' case are mostly a pile of dust), instead of, say, finding a middle-ground, incredibly good at lying to himself about it and very emotion driven in his decision-making

[Xerrai]

That was an interesting read. I must have missed it the first time, thanks for bringing it up here. I had always assumed his line "the return of my people mean the end of yours" meant that both modern elves and other races would perish for the ancient elves to be restored. It feels good to be presented with some hope that this may not be the case after all.

Eh. I all honesty the "he meant that metaphorically vs. literally" argument has been going on ever since trespasser was released.

 

By and large there is no consensus on the details of his plan to restore "the world of the elves". We can't agree if he wants to save modern elves or just wants to save ancient elves. We can't agree if the 'end of the world' simply means a transformation that destroys the current status quo or the literal destruction of Thedas and its people. We can't even agree on if Solas if what Solas is trying to do has something to do with some other worldly factor (blight, old gods, etc.) and not just Solas's (and his followers) personal plan.

 

We can't agree because we simply don't know. People say they do....But they don't. Even I don't.

 

As with everything else, it will have to be revealed in the next game or two (maybe three). But there is always evidence that can support just about anything. I myself am of the mind that during inquisition, there is a decent chance Solas comes to see the modern Thedosians as people, regardless of his relationship of the inquisitor. But just as there is an argument against this theory, there is also an argument for it.

 

Similarly, the arguments for who or whom Solas views as "his people" have all been done before. He clearly identifies with Sera on some level, and has had attempts to communicate with the Dalish, but then there is that singular line he said after Halamshiral ("our people?"). That one line, and his usual distance that he puts between him and just about everyone--including elves, that make us doubt on who exactly he identifies with. Some even believe he does not so much identify with elves as he does spirits.

 

So believe what you wish to believe. Until the next game comes out practically everything is fair game, and I myself get bit uplifted when I put a little bit of faith into one of my favorite characters.

[Witch Cocktor]

I can understand wanting escapism in fiction. But not all fiction needs to provide escapism, even video games.

 

Roleplaying games usually should aim to please all it's players to create a world and a character they are happy with.

Certainly there are things where you have to sacrifice for the sake of story, but I'm not spending 100 hours on a game to fail to preserve the world I've fought for just for the sake of realism and edgy sacrifices that'll make me depressed. Is that childish? Maybe, but I don't know if I really care.

 

I can see the appeal, but I don't want that. At all. I won't even play the next DA if that's the case. I've read, played and experienced enough bad ends, my roleplaying and gaming and escapism, FOR NOW, is reserved for good ends that I can be happy with, or at least find peace with.

[IllustriousT]

 
Also, Rick caused the zombie apocalypse and, later, was responsible for the death of even more people (and is currently going for genocide)
 
Sorry for the sarcasm, i just don't really think they're even remotely similiar, and this above is just the tip of the iceberg
 
Solas, in my opinion, is more like Shane. Prone to outright damage others for the sake of those he cares about (whom in Solas' case are mostly a pile of dust), instead of, say, finding a middle-ground, incredibly good at lying to himself about it and very emotion driven in his decision-making

 

Really? Rick Grimes started the zombie apocalypse and was responsible for the death of even more people - and is now plotting genocide? I didn't know that...

 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, I'm just pretty sure I said that there were "some" similarities. I also didn't compare their personalities - I was remarking on the basic story premises. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It also occurs to me it may not be so simple for Solas to quit, even if he did change his mind. He spent at least a year laying the groundwork before joining the Inquisitor. He has who knows how many followers spread around Thedas. They are just gonna pack up and go home if he quits? Not likely.

By the end of Tresspasser, the Inquisitor can barely keep tabs on their own organization. It's not so easy.

Solas worried about what the darkspawn would do without an archdemon to lead them. What if he felt that way about his own rebellion he created? Just a thought.

No, it is that simple. Will there be repercussions and dissent among the ranks? Yes. But choosing to stop his destroy the world plan is that simple. Let's not pretend someone is holding a gun to his head or his hands are tied. Plus quitting his current plan doesn't mean quit everything. There are other things he can do that would fit under his most likely vague promises, most of which would actually help the people he is using. 

[Aren]

Yeah, I always scoff when people say something like that.

The fade isn't just some "other dimension" that we can push away. It is the other half of Thedas. The literal representation of our memories and emotions, filled with denizens that reflect the worlds concepts. Without it, you essentially cleave the away Thedas's emotional half.

I don't recall that the veil stripped away the emotions from mundanes.

[Xerrai]

I can understand wanting escapism in fiction. But not all fiction needs to provide escapism, even video games.

Just gonna cut in here with a quick little....thing. My two cents, basically.

 

You know I once had a similar notion about how not every piece of media needs to provide escapism. Only it was more concerned about it in the context of movies. I was that person who sat in the back that sometimes, just sometimes, wished there was an endeding that wasn't even close to the "happy ending" that we usually get. Not in the "oh they never really left the dream/matrix/horror plot" way wither. I mean a legit, fairly realistic story where we are lead to believe there could be a happy ending, only for that ending to be ripped away from us last minuet because you know what? The world isn't fair, and it would be good if a movie portrayed that for once.

 

Well I got my wish. It was in the ending of a movie called "The Mist".

 

[For those of you who have never heard of or watched that movie all you need to know is this: they all died. The protagonist, his son, the old lady who threw the peas, and her husband, plus some chick. He decided shooting them (including his son) in the head was better than leaving to die a gruesome death in the mist. So he shot them. They died.....Only for the army to come in and save the day not only a minuet later.]

 

And while there is part of me who claims that that movie director was a genius, there is also that part of me is like "be careful what you wish for.". Now I'm that person whose in the back and is secretly grateful for all of those happy endings.

 

I never want a "The Mist" moment to happen in a videogame. Ever.

[Secret Rare]

He doesn't say people will die?

No he does say they will die in comfort in the raw chaos.

[Xerrai]

I don't recall that the veil stripped away the emotions from mundanes.

Because the veil didn't strip away the fade. Not entirely.

 

All people (minus dwarves) who are not tranquil, are still connected to the fade (the most obvious example of this is their capability to dream). They just have no conscious connection to it like mages do.

 

This contrasts to people who are legitimately cut off from the fade almost entirely: the Tranquil. They cannot access the fade even when they sleep. They do not dream. Just as they do not feel.

[German Soldier]

It always cracks me up when people say "Well we should make the Veil stronger and seal magic and the Fade away forever!" Yes, genius, that would make the whole world Tranquil. Good job!

 

I honestly think that's what the Qun's ultimate goal is - to render everyone, top to bottom in society, Tranquil.

 

Solas said that everyone is a tranquil for him however  this does not mean that is true.

In which point of the game there was this revelation or it is an assumption?

I don't recall Solas saying anything about the veil took everything from humans,dwarves or Qunari he mentioned only the ancient elves.