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[roselavellan]

 

So believe what you wish to believe. Until the next game comes out practically everything is fair game, and I myself get bit uplifted when I put a little bit of faith into one of my favorite characters.

 

I don't particularly support the metaphorical interpretation in most cases (I'm more likely to believe in developer oversight, like the infamous "who is Mythal" thing), but, yeah, I appreciate being given some hope that all may not be doom and gloom for Solas fans. 

 

Roleplaying games usually should aim to please all it's players to create a world and a character they are happy with.

Certainly there are things where you have to sacrifice for the sake of story, but I'm not spending 100 hours on a game to fail to preserve the world I've fought for just for the sake of realism and edgy sacrifices that'll make me depressed. Is that childish? Maybe, but I don't know if I really care.

 

I don't think any game can please all its players since we all want different things, but I agree with you that I hate to be depressed by video games. I can take bleak and depressing movies to a limited extent, but video games have an extra level of immersion that makes all emotional impact that much more heightened. A Solasmancing DAI playthrough is depressing enough, I wouldn't want more of it in DA4.

[Ellawynn]

Just gonna cut in here with a quick little....thing. My two cents, basically.

 

You know I once had a similar notion about how not every piece of media needs to provide escapism. Only it was more concerned about it in the context of movies. I was that person who sat in the back that sometimes, just sometimes, wished there was an endeding that wasn't even close to the "happy ending" that we usually get. Not in the "oh they never really left the dream/matrix/horror plot" way wither. I mean a legit, fairly realistic story where we are lead to believe there could be a happy ending, only for that ending to be ripped away from us last minuet because you know what? The world isn't fair, and it would be good if a movie portrayed that for once.

 

Well I got my wish. It was in the ending of a movie called "The Mist".

 

[For those of you who have never heard of or watched that movie all you need to know is this: they all died. The protagonist, his son, the old lady who threw the peas, and her husband, plus some chick. He decided shooting them (including his son) in the head was better than leaving to die a gruesome death in the mist. So he shot them. They died.....Only for the army to come in and save the day not only a minuet later.]

 

And while there is part of me who claims that that movie director was a genius, there is also that part of me is like "be careful what you wish for.". Now I'm that person whose in the back and is secretly grateful for all of those happy endings.

 

I never want a "The Mist" moment to happen in a videogame. Ever.

 

I understand, but I'm not asking for a complete downer ending. I even specified that in the quoted post - I don't want you to have to choose between murdering everyone, murdering everyone in a slightly different way, or making every an emotionless husk.

 

I'm just asking for things to be a bit more complicated than rousing perfect success. Something more in line with Origins' ending, where things can be good but you can't save everything... Well, not EXACTLY like Origins, since things here are a lot higher-stakes, but, still. Bittersweet. 

[midnight tea]

 

 

Solas said that everyone is a tranquil for him however  this does not mean that is true.

In which point of the game there was this revelation or it is an assumption?

I don't recall Solas saying anything about the veil took everything from humans,dwarves or Qunari he mentioned only the ancient elves.

 

 

Solas: "You must understand - I awoke in a word where the Veil had blocked most people's conscious connection with to the Fade. It

 was like walking through a world of Tranquil."

 

It's literally there, in the comment he compares people to Tranquil.

[German Soldier]

Solas: "You must understand - I awoke in a word where the Veil had blocked most people's conscious connection with to the Fade. It

 was like walking through a world of Tranquil."

 

It's literally there, in the comment he compares people to Tranquil.

Being a tranquil means being a person who was cut off from emotions and the veil did not had this effect,only Solas made this interpretation.

He never said anything for the other races in the pre veil world and never  mentioned any  benefit for them  like immortality ecc..

[midnight tea]

 

Being a tranquil means being a person who was cut off from emotions and the veil did not had this effect,only Solas made this interpretation.

He never said anthing the other races in the pre veil world and never  mentioned any  benefit for them  like immortality ecc..

 

 

He said "it was LIKE walking through the world of Tranquil". He didn't say "you're Tranquil". There's a difference between the two. It means that there's enough similitude for him to make the connection in order to help Inquisitor understand where he's coming from (walking through world of people mostly blind to the Fade and magic), but it doesn't mean that we have to take his comment so literally.

 

Also - he never said anything about other races, but he never said they were not there, or won't have their gifts restored. The comment I quoted makes it clear that he says 'most people' and not just elves. And Sandal's prophecy, which seems to be likely about Solas and what he does tells us that "everyone will be like they were before." Everyone - not just ancient elves.

 

In other words: don't be surprised if it turns out that being 'one of the People' means more than just being an ancient elf.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Being a tranquil means being a person who was cut off from emotions and the veil did not had this effect,only Solas made this interpretation.

He never said anything for the other races in the pre veil world and never  mentioned any  benefit for them  like immortality ecc..

 

 

Of course he says a thing for the other races. He literally says they're similar to what we consider Tranquil. This means that people were more before and they're less now. There's no other reason for him to say something like this. 

[Xerrai]

 

Solas said that everyone is a tranquil for him however  this does not mean that is true.

In which point of the game there was this revelation or it is an assumption?

I don't recall Solas saying anything about the veil took everything from humans,dwarves or Qunari he mentioned only the ancient elves.

Well if we go by what Felassan said in masked empire, then I don't see why would comment about other races.

 

I think he said something along the lines of "There were no other people but the elves". Humans and qunari were probably not even part of the equation for him because they didn't exist in the world stage yet.

 

But the dwarves. The dwarves are a different matter. We know there is heavily implied interaction between them and the elves in the form of a war or conflict of some sort. But we are not sure in what context. The main thing that was implied was that the evanuris went after Titans, the dwarves themselves were rarely mentioned.

 

Were they even considered people by the elves? Were the ancient dwarves really different from modern day dwarves ("the dwarves don't really remember the dwarves" ->Cole)? Why is that Solas himself admits he knew little of the dwarves in no small part because he could never find them in the fade?

 

You would think Solas would know about the dwarves, given their implied conflict with the Evanuris.

[German Soldier]

Of course he says a thing for the other races. He literally says they're similar to what we consider Tranquil. This means that people were more before and they're less now. There's no other reason for him to say something like this. 

How do you know that people doesn't mean elves?

[Almostfaceman]

How do you know that people doesn't mean elves?

 

I didn't say it doesn't mean elves. Clearly though, any race Inquisitor can have the "you don't see us as people" conversation with Solas in Trespasser, so it's not just his view of elves. 

[Illegitimus]

I don't recall that the veil stripped away the emotions from mundanes.

 

 

That's just because it isn't strong enough to finish the job.  Which could be used at the justification for all the superpowers that "non-mages" and non-templars demonstrate.

[midnight tea]

I don't recall that the veil stripped away the emotions from mundanes.

 

It's not just about emotions, but the ability to sense magic and all the things that such gifts bring with themselves, which go beyond casting spells or manipulating reality (to an extent at least). Since magic is intrinsically linked with emotions and feelings and consciousness it also allows people to have deeper insight into either theirs or someone else's feelings and intricacies of it. 

 

I mean, just look at Cole and his gift to see right through people and pick up their thoughts or feelings, or even pieces of past or other things from his environment. From what we have presented seems that Solas is also able to tap into someone's emotional state and pick stuff up, even if to limited extent - he senses familiarity with Blackwall, even if he doesn't pry far enough to find out about his secret. He makes apt observations about people's emotional states that seem to go beyond just mere observation of things like behavior or things they say. He tells us in JOH that Dreamers in particular are especially sensitive to powerful spirits like Hakkon, to a point where they feel tremendous pain when they're near them. Like a great deal of mages, including Dorian and Viv, he senses magical currents, Veil state and all kind of extrasensory information that are unavailable to non-mages.

He also says that (any approved Inky) is only similar to others in terms of a body and not a soul. He tells romanced Lavellan that he sees 'what she truly is'. And so on, and so forth. All this points to conclusion that what people might lack is the proverbial '6th sense' that makes them see magic and everything related to it. OGB Kieran even explicitly states that not sensing magic is like being blind.

[Xerrai]

It's not just about emotions, but the ability to sense magic and all the things that such gifts bring with themselves, which go beyond casting spells or manipulating reality (to an extent at least). Since magic is intrinsically linked with emotions and feelings and consciousness it also allows people to have deeper insight into either theirs or someone else's feelings and intricacies of it. 

 

I mean, just look at Cole and his gift to see right through people and pick up their thoughts or feelings, or even pieces of past or other things from his environment. From what we have presented seems that Solas is also able to tap into someone's emotional state and pick stuff up, even if to limited extent - he senses familiarity with Blackwall, even if he doesn't pry far enough to find out about his secret. He makes apt observations about people's emotional states that seem to go beyond just mere observation of things like behavior or things they say. He tells us in JOH that Dreamers in particular are especially sensitive to powerful spirits like Hakkon, to a point where they feel tremendous pain when they're near them. Like a great deal of mages, including Dorian and Viv, he senses magical currents, Veil state and all kind of extrasensory information that are unavailable to non-mages.

He also says that (any approved Inky) is only similar to others in terms of a body and not a soul. He tells romanced Lavellan that he sees 'what she truly is'. And so on, and so forth. All this points to conclusion that what people might lack is the proverbial '6th sense' that makes them see magic and everything related to it. OGB Kieran even explicitly states that not sensing magic is like being blind.

Well I'm not sure I would go that far when I say magic is connected to emotions.

 

I'm more prone to believing that Solas gathered all he did about the other companions (except for Cole) because of his long life and good observation skills, not some innate 'emotion sensing'. I mean maybe that was a thing when Arlathan was around (don't quote me on that though), but i'm not sure if it would carry into modern Thedas. Even for Solas.

[Aren]

It's not just about emotions, but the ability to sense magic and all the things that such gifts bring with themselves, which go beyond casting spells or manipulating reality (to an extent at least). Since magic is intrinsically linked with emotions and feelings and consciousness it also allows people to have deeper insight into either theirs or someone else's feelings and intricacies of it. 

 

I mean, just look at Cole and his gift to see right through people and pick up their thoughts or feelings, or even pieces of past or other things from his environment. From what we have presented seems that Solas is also able to tap into someone's emotional state and pick stuff up, even if to limited extent - he senses familiarity with Blackwall, even if he doesn't pry far enough to find out about his secret. He makes apt observations about people's emotional states that seem to go beyond just mere observation of things like behavior or things they say. He tells us in JOH that Dreamers in particular are especially sensitive to powerful spirits like Hakkon, to a point where they feel tremendous pain when they're near them. Like a great deal of mages, including Dorian and Viv, he senses magical currents, Veil state and all kind of extrasensory information that are unavailable to non-mages.

He also says that (any approved Inky) is only similar to others in terms of a body and not a soul. He tells romanced Lavellan that he sees 'what she truly is'. And so on, and so forth. All this points to conclusion that what people might lack is the proverbial '6th sense' that makes them see magic and everything related to it. OGB Kieran even explicitly states that not sensing magic is like being blind.

Cole is made of simplicity,these abilities depend on that and the moment he become more complex he start to lose those abilities.

The human Cole is equal to the spirit Cole.

Solas was reached in a dream by a non mage for what i recall and i'm more inclined to believe that he didn't used any 6th sense when he was talking with others just his common sense.

Urthemiel may say that one without magic is blind because he is from a lost age and understand nothing of the current world.

[lynroy]

Lol go fish.

[CoM Solaufein]

Because most girls apparently love douches.

Got that right. Good guys finish last.

[Xerrai]

Because most girls apparently love douches.

Whatever helps you sleep at night

[Almostfaceman]

Well I'm not sure I would go that far when I say magic is connected to emotions.

 

I'm more prone to believing that Solas gathered all he did about the other companions (except for Cole) because of his long life and good observation skills, not some innate 'emotion sensing'. I mean maybe that was a thing when Arlathan was around (don't quote me on that though), but i'm not sure if it would carry into modern Thedas. Even for Solas.

 

I think it's highly probable that it's connected to emotions. One clue we have is that extreme emotions, like those from a battlefield, weaken the Veil. 

 

Thin Veil spots cause a lot of chaos. Solas also strongly hints that the relationship between the real and the Fade is strained and twisted by the Veil, the most obvious result being demons. 

[maia0407]

Whatever helps you sleep at night

Lol, yeah, I've learned to run far far away from the down trodden self-proclaimed 'nice guys'. Once a 'nice guy' is rejected that facade usually breaks down fast and the entitled rage side shows its face.

[Patricia08]

Well it's official now and even over the 2500 posts and a full page 100 so this calls for a CELEBRATION. So for those who made this 100 pages possible thank you very much and there is cake and champagne ( i wish i could really give you cake and champagne ) for those who posted threads here. I really enjoyed reading all your posts and i still do and i hope this topic will continue some more.

 

And i specialy want to thank Midnight Tea Sah291 Almostfaceman German Soldier Bancheeownage Nightscrawl Secret Rare Medhia_Nox Lezio Abyiss108 Hanakoo Ikezawa Dawnstone Bayonet Hipshot Maia 0407 Xerrai Addictress The Elder King Baboontje Guinevere 134 mrs anomaly Reznore57 Lynroy straykat Ieldra ( with an i ) IlustriousT Shechinah Aren Rosemuk Myahele Dai Grepher Illyria Modern Academic Skin Vision Qun00 Hellion Rex Mistic Gaia300 thatsoneevildude Witch Cocktor Macha 'Anu Donguijote and 59 others Illegitimus Ellawynn Gilli-chan Ghost Gal In Exile Vanilka Alanc9 Fiskrens Dragongirl24 Heimdall Donk AutumWitch sweenykill LadyofClockwork7 Dean the Young XEternalXDraemsX RenAdaar Catilina Silcron and many others without you this topic would never have reached the 100 pages ( and even beyound )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So enjoy the Cake and Champagne you deserved it  . 

[Ieldra]

I think it's highly probable that it's connected to emotions. One clue we have is that extreme emotions, like those from a battlefield, weaken the Veil.

It most certainly is. Emotions are what drives will, and will enacts changes in the world by forming energy from the Fade when you use magic. Magical effects can also spontaneously happen in case of strong emotions, and that's how most mageborn children were found by the templars.

 

That's also what makes mages so dangerous if they lose control of themselves. Basically, the only safe mage is one who is aware of their emotions at all times and never gives in to their passions enough to lose control of their magic.   

[Shechinah]

Lol, yeah, I've learned to run far far away from the down trodden self-proclaimed 'nice guys'. Once a 'nice guy' is rejected that facade usually breaks down fast and the entitled rage side shows its face.

 

I'll have to disagree since I do not think Solas shows a whole lot of "entitled rage" if the Inquisitor breaks up with him. Quite the opposite;

 

Balcony

Solas: "It means I have not forgotten that kiss."

Inquisitor: "Perhaps you should."

Solas: "Perhaps you are right. I will always respect you, Inquisitor"

 

Grove

Inquisitor: "Solas, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you were right. I was too impulsive earlier."

Solas: "Even in this, you surprise me. I shall speak no more of it. Still, know that whatever happens, you are a rare spirit in this world. Goodbye"

 

Trespasser

Inquisitor: "Whatever happened between us has ended, Solas, speak no more of it."

Solas: "As you wish. You've earned your anger"

[midnight tea]

Well I'm not sure I would go that far when I say magic is connected to emotions.

 

I'm more prone to believing that Solas gathered all he did about the other companions (except for Cole) because of his long life and good observation skills, not some innate 'emotion sensing'. I mean maybe that was a thing when Arlathan was around (don't quote me on that though), but i'm not sure if it would carry into modern Thedas. Even for Solas.

 

Magic in Thedas = Fade. And we know that the Fade is intrinsically linked to emotions and consciousness, since if we cut a person from the Fade they lose their ability to feel things and their individuality and sense of self is diminished. I'd say that it's as strong evidence for connection between magic and emotions as you can get - and that's not even mentioning the fact that Fade's natural inhabitants reflect the minds of the living and emotions and states/feelings/aspects that come with it: Pride, Compassion, Wisdom, Faith, etc.

 

As for Solas and his 'long life observation skills'... but being able to observe emotions on more than just physical level would be a skill as well, just not one that many can practice today. Even the propaganda piece he's the target of mentions that he's someone who "knows much of the People and their spirits", suggesting that even with 'innate emotion sensing' it's not as simple as looking into someone's head. Cole after all makes many apt observations, but there are many things he doesn't understand, since he's "just" a spirit of compassion. But someone who is able to understand nuance can get a better picture even if elves themselves ultimately can't just peer into someone's mind as quickly and easily as a spirit does.

 

And as much as this might have been an ability from times long past we do know that elves retain at least some of it, or some of their connection to the Fade. That's what all the poking and prodding of Sera by Solas and Cole was supposed to show - that even a 'non-elfiest' elf you get can still 'see' or sense more than a common human. Her ears are supposedly always turned to the Fade. Her ability to place an arrow in the right spot Cole compares to his ability to know where a knife should be. She gets all kinds of bizarre feelings and deja-vus in various places, to which Solas/Cole immediately reacts, if he doesn't make an observation himself (places being filled with sadness or memory, tremors in the Veil and so on), on top of those mages themselves can make.

 

So yeah, I'd say that they certainly something more there.

 

 

 

Cole is made of simplicity,these abilities depend on that and the moment he become more complex he start to lose those abilities.

The human Cole is equal to the spirit Cole.

Solas was reached in a dream by a non mage for what i recall and i'm more inclined to believe that he didn't used any 6th sense when he was talking with others just his common sense.

Urthemiel may say that one without magic is blind because he is from a lost age and understand nothing of the current world.

 

Huh, pretty much everything you said pretty much supports my notion. Cole becoming human and losing a great deal of his innate abilities? Only proves that by becoming human he becomes blind to the Fade. Uthremiel not understanding people who cans't see magic? Well yeah, that's sort of the point.

 

Also, don't take my '6th sense' comment so literally. Plus - he can speak in a dream with a non-mage or even a dwarf, but *only* when they carry his unique magic that allow him to reach him in dreams in the first place.

[Sah291]

 You would think Solas would know about the dwarves, given their implied conflict with the Evanuris.

He does seem to, it's hinted in his banter with Varric, and also the Old God soul version of Morrigan's son will comment to the Dwarven Inquisitor about the Titans. So yeah, it does sound like the Dwarves were much different.

It also doesn't sound like they have always lived underground either. That was not until their conflict with Elgar'nan. It seems like the ancient elves and dwarves fought over territory, the Evanuris fought the Titans (we at least know Mythal killed one of them), and Elgar'nan pushed the Dwarven tribes back, who retreated underground.

If they are basically following Norse folklore on dwarves, then I wouldn't be surprised if we find out they were originally related to the elves somehow. According to the Prose Edda, there were four dwarves responsible for "holding up the sky" at each corner of the world- North, South, East, and West.

Just another reason I wonder if Solas might have used Titan or Dwarven magic somehow when he formed the Veil.

[maia0407]

I'll have to disagree since I do not think Solas shows a whole lot of "entitled rage" if the Inquisitor breaks up with him. Quite the opposite;

Balcony
Solas: "It means I have not forgotten that kiss."
Inquisitor: "Perhaps you should."
Solas: "Perhaps you are right. I will always respect you, Inquisitor"

Grove
Inquisitor: "Solas, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you were right. I was too impulsive earlier."
Solas: Even in this, you surprise me. I shall speak no more of it. Still, know that whatever happens, you are a rare spirit in this world. Goodbye"

Trespasser
Inquisitor: "Whatever happened between us has ended, Solas, speak no more of it."
Solas: "As you wish. You've earned your anger"

Oh, I wasn't talking about Solas. I'm referencing the real life "nice guys or good guys always finish last" canard mentioned a few posts ago. Guys that use this as an excuse to explain why they repel women are usually deluding themselves. If you listen to how they talk about women and how entitled they feel to sex, you'll often find they are scary dudes.

Solas, though, he's dreamy.

[Patricia08]

Btw. @Bancheeownage i hope the fires in Canada are not near your house so terrible i have seen it on the news.