4630 réponses à ce sujet

[Lezio]

Really? Rick Grimes started the zombie apocalypse and was responsible for the death of even more people - and is now plotting genocide? I didn't know that...
 
 
Sorry for the sarcasm, I'm just pretty sure I said that there were "some" similarities. I also didn't compare their personalities - I was remarking on the basic story premises.

As i said, i pointed out the most obvious difference in character between them in a way that would explain briefly my point of view, which is that there is no real similarity between them. Plus you said "Rick Grimes has some similarities to Solas." so that's probably the cause of my misinterpreting

 

Still, i do appreciate your post because it made me think about the parallels between Solas and Shane (whom i really like [Shane])

[Xerrai]

Magic in Thedas = Fade. And we know that the Fade is intrinsically linked to emotions and consciousness, since if we cut a person from the Fade they lose their ability to feel things and their individuality and sense of self is diminished. I'd say that it's as strong evidence for connection between magic and emotions as you can get - and that's not even mentioning the fact that Fade's natural inhabitants reflect the minds of the living and emotions and states/feelings/aspects that come with it: Pride, Compassion, Wisdom, Faith, etc.

Ah, sorry. I didn't mean it as if the fade wasn't connected to emotion. ^-^;

I mean, there has to be reason why DA's realm of magic is not filled with generic 'demons of darkness' and is instead filled with demons that are literally formed by emotions and concepts.

 

I just meant I wouldn't take it so far as calling it as something akin to a "6th sense" that most Thedoisians are lacking in (which you clarified a bit in a later post). As that would seem to imply that the less connected to the fade you are, that would equate to that person automatically being less capable of feeling emotions. Which may have a bit of truth in it (again, Tranquil) it does not seem to hold much water when you consider entities like the dwarves (but with what little we know of the Titans....).

 

If we go so far as calling the fade downright essential for every conscious being to feel 'properly' then we are essentially falling in the same pitfall that Solas stepped in when he first woke up in a world so disconnected from the fade. I mean, for humans and elves, the fade seems to be something that is intricately connected to their psyche, but for dwarves and possibly qunari, that does not seem to be the case. 

[Andrew Lucas]

Got that right. Good guys finish last.

lmao. Tru.

I've noticed I hit Tumblr's nerves haha.

[midnight tea]

Ah, sorry. I didn't mean it as if the fade wasn't connected to emotion. ^-^;

I mean, there has to be reason why DA's realm of magic is not filled with generic 'demons of darkness' and is instead filled with demons that are literally formed by emotions and concepts.

 

Well the reason is made pretty clear in DAI Fade is intrinsically linked with people's minds. Solas says so. Cole tells us so as well. He explicitly tells us that without people they (as in: spirits) got nothing.

 

I just meant I wouldn't take it so far as calling it as something akin to a "6th sense" that most Thedoisians are lacking in (which you clarified a bit in a later post). As that would seem to imply that the less connected to the fade you are, that would equate to that person automatically being less capable of feeling emotions. Which may have a bit of truth in it (again, Tranquil) it does not seem to hold much water when you consider entities like the dwarves (but with what little we know of the Titans....).

 

I used '6th sense' as a shorthand, for lack of better term. 

 

Also... er... we do know that the less connected a person is to the Fade, the less they can sense or feel. This is exactly why Tranquil are Tranquil. The people are obviously not like Tranquil, not in entirety - they're capable of wide variety of feelings and emotions - but that doesn't mean that there isn't something lacking. This is probably one of reasons why Solas thinks  many people are short-sighted and look at thing sin black-and-white mindset - because the nuance and subtlety that hides within emotions may elude them.

 

So.... Solas walking in the world that would be literally consisting of Tranquil would be like him being the only seeing person in the land of blind. But I think him walking in modern Thedas is more akin to a tetrachromat in the world of colorblind. There are likely colors people are unable to see, or even imagine them.

 

If we go so far as calling the fade downright essential for every conscious being to feel 'properly' then we are essentially falling in the same pitfall that Solas stepped in when he first woke up in a world so disconnected from the fade. I mean, for humans and elves, the fade seems to be something that is intricately connected to their psyche, but for dwarves and possibly qunari, that does not seem to be the case. 

 

But that does appear to be the case - I don't think Solas would make such observation if he indeed wasn't certain what most people are missing something. Biased as he is, I don't think we can outright accuse him of making snap judgements. Even in case of disliked inky he holds back his personal confirmation of the sorry state of people until we get the 'disapproval' scene, where he declares "now I know I was right".

 

That's not to say that people still aren't capable of either reaching or regaining some of that ancient... umm... ness  ? Inky certainly proves Solas that - he literally compares them to beings from times long past, so there must be something in there that merits such distinction. He sees something in them that makes him declare that they're like that at least in spirit, even if not in the body; and keeps going on and on how romanced Lavellan has 'rare and marvelous spirit' and 'he sees what she truly is'. Interestingly enough for Cole approved Inquisitor appears to be 'too bright', with Anchor only adding to that brightness rather than being a result of it. And we do know that brightness in the Fade is correlated with the power of spirit/someone's spirit (Cole calls Solas 'bright' as well).

 

And the Qunari are connected to the Fade - otherwise they wouldn't dream, nor they'd have their own mages. And the Dwarves we know are a special case, connected in some way to the Titans who themselves appear to be connected in some way to the Fade. So the link is still there, only diminished.

[Heimdall]

Oh, I wasn't talking about Solas. I'm referencing the real life "nice guys or good guys always finish last" canard mentioned a few posts ago. Guys that use this as an excuse to explain why they repel women are usually deluding themselves. If you listen to how they talk about women and how entitled they feel to sex, you'll often find they are scary dudes.

Solas, though, he's dreamy.

I'm sure there are guys like that, but the guys I've met who find resonance with that "canard" are usually just shy socially awkward types who feel underappreciated.

2 cents

[maia0407]

I'm sure there are guys like that, but the guys I've met who find resonance with that "canard" are usually just shy socially awkward types who feel underappreciated.
2 cents

I don't know. I've been on the receiving end of a few 'nice guys'. They can be creepy when their attempts at romance fail. Like stalker rock throwing creepy. It usually starts with them showing up and doing something for you that you never asked for, as in walking outside to find them washing your car. When you ask them to stop they insist on finishing. Then, they feel entitleled to payment for their unwanted favors. It's very video gamey if you think about it except that real women have the option to reject their advances. It usually doesn't end well.

There is also the guy that cozies up, pretends to be friends and gets angry when that doesn't turn into romance. I don't know, these guys usually flock to women that would never give them a chance and ignore the women that would. They want the prettiest girl in the room and soothe their bruised ego with the 'nice guy' line.

Online I've noticed that the guys that use the nice guy trope usually spout the most horrible sexist **** about women. Maybe there are truly a few shy awkward types that are nice as well but I haven't met them.

[Almostfaceman]

I vote we don't make this a men vs women thread and ignore any attempts to make it that type of thread. 

 

[Heimdall]

I don't know. I've been on the receiving end of a few 'nice guys'. They can be creepy when their attempts at romance fail. Like stalker rock throwing creepy. It usually starts with them showing up and doing something for you that you never asked for, as in walking outside to find them washing your car. When you ask them to stop they insist on finishing. Then, they feel entitleled to payment for their unwanted favors. It's very video gamey if you think about it except that real women have the option to reject their advances. It usually doesn't end well.

There is also the guy that cozies up, pretends to be friends and gets angry when that doesn't turn into romance. I don't know, these guys usually flock to women that would never give them a chance and ignore the women that would. They want the prettiest girl in the room and soothe their bruised ego with the 'nice guy' line.

Online I've noticed that the guys that use the nice guy trope usually spout the most horrible sexist **** about women. Maybe there are truly a few shy awkward types that are nice as well but I haven't met them.

They're very nature makes them hard to notice, most of them are shy and have difficulty initiating conversations with women (Or people in general really), especially those they want to notice them. They might be happy to help if asked, but aren't the type to offer unsolicited favors as you describe. They've generally watched bolder and more extroverted (And not necessarily nice) guys have far more success in connecting with women and tend to resent them both for it.

And at this point I should admit I'm kinda describing mine and several friends of mine's experience growing up. It's difficult being an introverted shy guy in an environment where the prevailing expectation is for men to be the ones to initiate relationships. I did my best to be nice to everyone and hoped people would like me in return, especially girls I wanted to notice me. I didn't think being nice gave me some right to their affection, I just hoped they'd like me for being nice.

Ultimately I realized that I needed a bit more boldness than niceness, but that came later.

[Sah291]

I mean, there has to be reason why DA's realm of magic is not filled with generic 'demons of darkness' and is instead filled with demons that are literally formed by emotions and concepts.

Yeah, you're right, they are more like classical greek/roman personifications. Or Jungian archetypes, with spirits being literally "thoughtforms". So it could be the idea for the fade was based on the idea of the collective unconscious, or something along those lines... So literal demons of darkness don't quite fit with that.

The Old Gods/Archdemons seem more in line with Christian folklore (with the idea of fallen angels...they even have have names that sort of sound like names of angels).

Throw in a lot of the usual germanic/norse folklore influences from Tolkien that a lot of western RPGs have, and viola....

DA has a whole huge mishmash of influences. But that's what I like about it.

[Addictress]

I'll have to disagree since I do not think Solas shows a whole lot of "entitled rage" if the Inquisitor breaks up with him. Quite the opposite;

Balcony
Solas: "It means I have not forgotten that kiss."
Inquisitor: "Perhaps you should."
Solas: "Perhaps you are right. I will always respect you, Inquisitor"

Grove
Inquisitor: "Solas, I'm sorry, I'm afraid you were right. I was too impulsive earlier."
Solas: "Even in this, you surprise me. I shall speak no more of it. Still, know that whatever happens, you are a rare spirit in this world. Goodbye"

Trespasser
Inquisitor: "Whatever happened between us has ended, Solas, speak no more of it."
Solas: "As you wish. You've earned your anger"

...ow. The ease with which he accepts is quite painful actually.

I wish he cared a little more.

Ow ;___;

[maia0407]

They're very nature makes them hard to notice, most of them are shy and have difficulty initiating conversations with women (Or people in general really), especially those they want to notice them. They might be happy to help if asked, but aren't the type to offer unsolicited favors as you describe. They've generally watched bolder and more extroverted (And not necessarily nice) guys have far more success in connecting with women and tend to resent them both for it.
And at this point I should admit I'm kinda describing mine and several friends of mine's experience growing up. It's difficult being an introverted shy guy in an environment where the prevailing expectation is for men to be the ones to initiate relationships. I did my best to be nice to everyone and hoped people would like me in return, especially girls I wanted to notice me. I didn't think being nice gave me some right to their affection, I just hoped they'd like me for being nice.
Ultimately I realized that I needed a bit more boldness than niceness, but that came later.

You sound genuinely nice! And you're right, the actual shy guys probably aren't pushing themselves on women. I guess I just see and have experienced too many of the not so nice guys that bitterly claim the nice guy label when their advances don't work as planned.

[midnight tea]

...ow. The ease with which he accepts is quite painful actually.

I wish he cared a little more.

Ow ;___;

 

Don't forget that he's the one who wishes their love would prevail, but ultimately doubts so. He probably thinks it's sort of a given for Lavellan to forsake him, fully justifiably so, especially after it's revealed who he was all along or what he's done/planning to do. Painful as his apparent lack of care appears to be, it's even more painful to think that he's doing that because he barely has any sense of self-worth :[

[midnight tea]

Yeah, you're right, they are more like classical greek/roman personifications. Or Jungian archetypes, with spirits being literally "thoughtforms". So it could be the idea for the fade was based on the idea of the collective unconscious, or something along those lines... So literal demons of darkness don't quite fit with that.

The Old Gods/Archdemons seem more in line with Christian folklore (with the idea of fallen angels...they even have have names that sort of sound like names of angels).

Throw in a lot of the usual germanic/norse folklore influences from Tolkien that a lot of western RPGs have, and viola....

DA has a whole huge mishmash of influences. But that's what I like about it.

 

I think this whole set-up ultimately was borrowed from (in general sense at least) a philosophy that eventually was born in Greece and at one point became a foundation for Western culture - that the world is dualistic in nature and that there exists a world of substance (body) and the world of ideas (mind)... And in case of Thedas it literally appears to be the case. The ideas are obviously the Fade while the 'substance' is represented by 'unchanging world' - Earth, Stone, Titans and everything generally deemed as 'real'.

[Addictress]

Maybe. Maybe he's just go so many ladies in the FADE

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Oh look how we handle the genocide with technicalities!

Genocide is the deliberate killing of a large group of people,so does it really matter  if it will likely happen as  consequence?

A consequence of whom Solas is already aware and despite it want to fulfill his plan.

So yes for my perspective is a genocide since he wish to perform a plan while perfectly aware of its possible repercussions.

 

I actually agree with Brass_Buckles; he's not planning genocide, just something with tons of collateral damage. I'm not saying that's necessarily better in the end, but it is different (though as I've stated before, I do think intentions and context matter greatly). Similarly, I don't think Shepard is guilty of genocide for the collateral damage that was the Batarian home system, or the death of the Geth in Destroy.

 

They're both doing things they feel they have no other choice but to do, which happens to result in terrible consequences. Also, we still need to know more about Solas' plan to judge him fully.

[Medhia_Nox]

 

I mean, there has to be reason why DA's realm of magic is not filled with generic 'demons of darkness' and is instead filled with demons that are literally formed by emotions and concepts.

 

 

 

Demons of emotion and concept are actually much closer to real world occult representations. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Yeah, it's not our world, and it doesn't operate under the same set of rules. It does have rules, but they are based around giant sentient rock monsters beings, magical blood, and dreams. I think this confuses a lot of players who dislike supernatural elements getting in the way of their hack and slash.

Hey, I don't think you have to be a simpleton to dislike the overly supernatural elements that are completely different from our universe. I'm not a huge fan of these revelations personally, especially the titans. But I've always liked scifi more than fantasy, so I don't complain. TES is even worse for that sort of thing. I like my fictional worlds to be relatable, that's all.

[Sah291]

I think this whole set-up ultimately was borrowed from (in general sense at least) a philosophy that eventually was born in Greece and at one point became a foundation for Western culture - that the world is dualistic in nature and that there exists a world of substance (body) and the world of ideas (mind)... And in case of Thedas it literally appears to be the case. The ideas are obviously the Fade while the 'substance' is represented by 'unchanging world' - Earth, Stone, Titans and everything generally deemed as 'real'.

You may be right... I know it made me think a lot, as I was playing, and I like that about the series in general.

It's interesting how the story plays with the idea of which part of the world is more "real" - the spiritual or the material world, and what makes a person a person - having a spirit or a body?

This comes out a lot with Solas' character too. It's like he identifies more with spirits being real, and for the Inquisitor the opposite is true.

But being written mainly for a western audience, it kind of shows our bias a bit that we reject the idea of a spiritual reality so much.

[dawnstone]

Hey, I don't think you have to be a simpleton to dislike the overly supernatural elements that are completely different from our universe. I'm not a huge fan of these revelations personally, especially the titans. But I've always liked scifi more than fantasy, so I don't complain. TES is even worse for that sort of thing. I like my fictional worlds to be relatable, that's all.

I didn't say people who like hack and slash are simpletons, it is simply playstyle that I don't particularly enjoy. What I like about Dragon Age, is that while you get action and interesting and varied characters to get to know, there is also a lot of mystery. There are a lot of elements that at first seem familiar, but then open up into a can of bloody eyeballs, tentacles, and teeth. Each game you get to peel back more layers and I find that fascinating.

 

[midnight tea]

You may be right... I know it made me think a lot, as I was playing, and I like that about the series in general.

It's interesting how the story plays with the idea of which part of the world is more "real" - the spiritual or the material world, and what makes a person a person - having a spirit or a body?

This comes out a lot with Solas' character too. It's like he identifies more with spirits being real, and for the Inquisitor the opposite is true.

But being written mainly for a western audience, it kind of shows our bias a bit that we reject the idea of a spiritual reality so much.

 

I think it's sort of the thing: at one point or another under the influence of emerging Christianity our general mindset on the good old West drifted towards thinking of things spiritual and mundane as separate, or in fact even as an opposition of sorts (with the most extreme example of that being gnosticism; which - I'd like to point out - is a religion BW pick for the the zealots in Hinterlants to base their beliefs on).

 

I think it was intentional from BW's part to use that; to make the large chunk of the audience (through their culturally-shaped inclinations) feel like it's sort of natural for 'sacrum' and 'profanum' to be separate (it was one of Solas's issues with Cassandra in fact, who has very Chantry-like mindset) - while the truth is that we should think of them as part of a single whole, which is more in tune with eastern religions and philosophies. This is also why I think they gave Solas a slightly 'eastern-ish' feel and introduced symbolism for him that brings ying-yang to mind.

 

[Medhia_Nox]

I didn't say people who like hack and slash are simpletons, it is simply playstyle that I don't particularly enjoy. What I like about Dragon Age, is that while you get action and interesting and varied characters to get to know, there is also a lot of mystery. There are a lot of elements that at first seem familiar, but then open up into a can of bloody eyeballs, tentacles, and teeth. Each game you get to peel back more layers and I find that fascinating.

 

 

Interesting... Cthulhu stories would NEVER reward you for questioning.  They are actually all about the dangers of asking too many questions.

 

If Dragon Age were more like Cthulhu I'd be a much greater fan (and, admittedly - I felt that DA:O had greater hints of it while DA:2 and DA:1 became increasingly D&D)

[Sah291]

@midnight tea,

Good points. I also think that seperation of 'sacrum' and 'profanum' extends to a tradition of what is considered suitable for the mundane/masses, in order to preserve and protect sacred knowledge (from the profane). I mean, that exists in eastern traditions certainly as well, but it seems more pronounced in western culture for whatever reason. It may be that it was initially because of practices going underground due to persecution at one time, but it persists nevertheless.

[Seraphim24]

I think this whole set-up ultimately was borrowed from (in general sense at least) a philosophy that eventually was born in Greece and at one point became a foundation for Western culture - that the world is dualistic in nature and that there exists a world of substance (body) and the world of ideas (mind)... And in case of Thedas it literally appears to be the case. The ideas are obviously the Fade while the 'substance' is represented by 'unchanging world' - Earth, Stone, Titans and everything generally deemed as 'real'.

 

 

Dualism is certainly older than Greece, it makes an appearance in Sumer among other places I believe.

 

 

They're very nature makes them hard to notice, most of them are shy and have difficulty initiating conversations with women (Or people in general really), especially those they want to notice them. They might be happy to help if asked, but aren't the type to offer unsolicited favors as you describe. They've generally watched bolder and more extroverted (And not necessarily nice) guys have far more success in connecting with women and tend to resent them both for it.

And at this point I should admit I'm kinda describing mine and several friends of mine's experience growing up. It's difficult being an introverted shy guy in an environment where the prevailing expectation is for men to be the ones to initiate relationships. I did my best to be nice to everyone and hoped people would like me in return, especially girls I wanted to notice me. I didn't think being nice gave me some right to their affection, I just hoped they'd like me for being nice.

Ultimately I realized that I needed a bit more boldness than niceness, but that came later.

 

Oh an honest post on BSN? Hm thought those never happened... Incidentally I've encountered some women who experience some of the same sorts of things, not necessarily same exact things, but yeah it's not a gender specific phenomenon.

[Addictress]

They're very nature makes them hard to notice, most of them are shy and have difficulty initiating conversations with women (Or people in general really), especially those they want to notice them. They might be happy to help if asked, but aren't the type to offer unsolicited favors as you describe. They've generally watched bolder and more extroverted (And not necessarily nice) guys have far more success in connecting with women and tend to resent them both for it.

And at this point I should admit I'm kinda describing mine and several friends of mine's experience growing up. It's difficult being an introverted shy guy in an environment where the prevailing expectation is for men to be the ones to initiate relationships. I did my best to be nice to everyone and hoped people would like me in return, especially girls I wanted to notice me. I didn't think being nice gave me some right to their affection, I just hoped they'd like me for being nice.

Ultimately I realized that I needed a bit more boldness than niceness, but that came later.

You're a guy? I thought you looked like your icon.

 

Anyways.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I actually agree with Brass_Buckles; he's not planning genocide, just something with tons of collateral damage. I'm not saying that's necessarily better in the end, but it is different (though as I've stated before, I do think intentions and context matter greatly). Similarly, I don't think Shepard is guilty of genocide for the collateral damage that was the Batarian home system, or the death of the Geth in Destroy.

 

They're both doing things they feel they have no other choice but to do, which happens to result in terrible consequences. Also, we still need to know more about Solas' plan to judge him fully.

Still genocide. Feeling you have no choice when you do something is still you intending to do something thus fits the definition. 

 

But fine, let's use another term. Let's go with holocaust which is defined as "any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life" or "a great or complete devastation or destruction, especially by fire"(Solas even uses 'burn in the raw chaos' as a word choice when describing what will happen). 

If you don't like that, there is also always massacre, mass murder, slaughter, extermination, decimation, etc.