4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Sah291]

Maybe.... Actually, to be specific, I don't think the general... capricouness of DA is entirely attributable to over correction. Maybe the changes between DA2 and Inquisition largely are. But I think, between DA2 and Origins, it's mostly due to a change in management - Brent Knowles left BioWare and the studio was taken over by EA.

Regardless, DA2 seems to begun BioWare's fall from grace - ME3 pushed it further and Inquisition, despite the hope that it would redeem the studio, seems to have gotten a somewhat mixed reaction. If chasing millennials is the reason for that, well, perhaps that wasn't the best decision - and I say that as someone who would probably be called a millennial.

DA2 is actually my favorite of the series, and I've played it more times than Origins. I didn't hate the new direction. I think that game was rushed and it wasn't what fans wanted/expected... But I agree they dealt with a lot of flack from ME and the whole ending fiasco, which probably wasn't fair to the DA team..But it is what is.

[Sah291]

@Abyss108,

The funny thing is... I was all on board for a new PC... And then Tresspasser came out and I wanted more...

[Nimlowyn]

@Abyss108,

The funny thing is... I was all on board for a new PC... And then Tresspasser came out and I wanted more...

I love the new PC format but my Lavellan's story is NOT done... I'm all over the place.

[Mistic]

With the way the story is told as of now, the "cheapening" would be inevitable anyway - there's just no way in hell they'd play a larger role in the story than Inquisitor, who at the end of (even Trespasser) is a Thedosian demigod and significant political power on the continent.

Plus, so far the "final showdown" is implied to happen between Solas and Inky, not to mention that it's strongly implied in last scene of the DLC that the new PC will likely be an agent of Inquisition. So we'd literally be playing pawns of Inquisitor, or ultimately we'd be working towards *them* succeeding in their struggle against Solas.

 

Starting as an agent of the Inquisition is not the same as being a pawn. I mean, we started DA:O as a Warden recruit and see how we ended. The Inquisitor finishes Trespasser losing a hand, losing the rift powers, suffering severe limitations in their political power and influence even if the Inquisition isn't disbanded, and literally says that their adventuring days are done and that they need other people to fight Solas. That's blatant in-universe passing the torch.

 

Then add Bioware's word of god about Trespasser's goals ("wrap up the Inquisitor's story" and "conclusively tie off this protagonist") and there's nothing to suspect that they don't consider the Inquisitor's story finished, outside common narrative tropes used in different stories with different goals.

 

Now, for me, it's not a problem - I've already mentioned that it was pulled off pretty nicely in Oblivion, where the character is important because they serve as a connective tissue between Martin Septim and his fate. Whether an agent or not, I fail to see how this could threaten new PCs agency - IMO It really depends of how well the story is written, no matter of the scenario.

 

I agree, the hero worked as a supporting protagonist in Oblivion, but Martin Septim was never a playable protagonist, nor was Oblivion built with a dual protagonist dynamic. I can see the Inquisitor coming back, but mostly as a cameo or a guest star party member like Hawke in DA:I.

[Sah291]

I love the new PC format but my Lavellan's story is NOT done... I'm all over the place.

I watched my armless Inquistitor slam the book down with major attitude and was all, "Ugh, I have a world to save... Again." And then she slamed a knife in a Tevinter map. And I was like...YESSS! Let's do it!

It was just getting really good.

[Nimlowyn]

I watched my armless Inquistitor slam the book down with major attitude and was all, "Ugh, I have a world to save... Again." And then she slamed a knife in a Tevinter map. And I was like...YESSS! Let's do it!

It was just getting really good.

It felt like a new beginning, honestly. When she slammed the knife I was like hell yes queen let's go!!!! Mythal'enaste, Trespasser was a tour de force.

Time will tell where they go with this. I trust Weekes, I really do.

[Secret Rare]

So then the smart move would have been to have left his horcrux off on it's own?  What do you think would have happened then?

The smart move would have been to infect the Inquisitor at Haven and mind control them thus regain the anchor=easy win.

Either way without the dragon he is unkillable so that dragon it served nothing.

[Ellawynn]

DA2 is actually my favorite of the series, and I've played it more times than Origins. I didn't hate the new direction. I think that game was rushed and it wasn't what fans wanted/expected... But I agree they dealt with a lot of flack from ME and the whole ending fiasco, which probably wasn't fair to the DA team..But it is what is.

 

I'm not trying to make some objective statement about the quality of DA2 - you liked it and that's great. 

 

I'm just pointing out that DA2 was met with a largely negative reception - outside of this site and Tumblr I hardly ever see it spoken of positively, and very often see it spoken of negatively - and a lot of people mark it as the beginning of BioWare's current downturn. And again, whether or not you agree that it's an actual downturn is up to you - but the community and industry at large has lost a lot of faith.

 

 

It it depends on the story. I don't see why Inquisition would have been better if it had been about my Warden. It would have been much worse for me - it would have felt strange and out of place that my Warden was apparently the single most important person in Thedas who just happened to stumble upon every world shattering event that ever happened. I would have missed out on all the Elf stuff as I didn't have any reason to play an Elf in Origins (I heard about Elfy stuff in the plot before making my Inquisition character). I would have missed the entire Solas romance, which made the game what it was for me - and I don't even like romance! It would have been a much worse game for me if it had a returning protagonist. I would have had all those limits on my experience.

 

Same. It probably would've been weird and implausible to see my Warden's story dragged out into Hawke's and the Inquisitor's (Although I wouldn't mind a spinoff about whatever it is they're up to now.) But Trespasser was just a flashing neon sign that the Inquisitor has more of a story to tell, something Hawke and especially the Warden didn't really get.

[Seraphim24]

All of Bioware games are pretty much the exact same thing, from Shattered Steel all the way to Dragon Age: Inquisition, the same idea, at any rate. All the Obsidian games, all of those kickstarter games, the entire Fallout series, all of this is all basically the same thing, just plus or minus that, plus or minus this. There are exceptions like TES, but yeah, basically.

 

The only thing that changed and was part of the fan disruption was the fans who wanted the world to believe they were all hardcore D&D players who rolled dice, because apparently they were all appealing to some higher gaming god or something that cared about this and you were "better" if you did that.

 

Never minding the possibility that hardcore D&D players who rolled dice might actually perfectly fine with a Dragon Age.. or whatever, and that all this faux-elitism was the sign of someone who was probably not a hardcore D&D player. Because as a relatively hardcore D&D player, i can tell you we spent the vast majority of our time making jokes and just like re-starting campaigns and stuff rather than doing anything focused, because that was the fun right there. Moreover, the mechanics weren't often the draw it was the world and setting and such from Forgotten Realms (which DA mostly ripped off, to put it bluntly)

 

The only difference in age is that younger players it seems to me are more willing to just confess they aren't super hardcore video gamers and like lots of cinematics and stuff (as if that itself was mutually incompatible with being a "gamer," at any rate). There is also a sexuality dimension they are more comfortable expressing LGBT openly rather than feeling closeted about it and having lots of built-up resentment.

[Addictress]

DA2 <---- ----> Inquisition

 

two different directions fyi. 

[Ellawynn]

All of Bioware games are pretty much the exact same thing, from Shattered Steel all the way to Dragon Age: Inquisition, the same idea, at any rate. All the Obsidian games, all of those kickstarter games, the entire Fallout series, all of this is all basically the same thing, just plus or minus that, plus or minus this. There are exceptions like TES, but yeah, basically.

 

The only thing that changed and was part of the fan disruption was the fans who wanted the world to believe they were all hardcore D&D players who rolled dice, because apparently they were all appealing to some higher gaming god or something that cared about this and you were "better" if you did that.

 

Never minding the possibility that hardcore D&D players who rolled dice might actually perfectly fine with a Dragon Age.. or whatever, and that all this faux-elitism was the sign of someone who was probably not a hardcore D&D player. Because as a relatively hardcore D&D player, i can tell you we spent the vast majority of our time making jokes and just like re-starting campaigns and stuff rather than doing anything focused, because that was the fun right there. Moreover, the mechanics weren't often the draw it was the world and setting and such from Forgotten Realms (which DA mostly ripped off, to put it bluntly)

 

The only difference in age is that younger players it seems to me are more willing to just confess they aren't super hardcore video gamers and like lots of cinematics and stuff (as if that itself was mutually incompatible with being a "gamer," at any rate). There is also a sexuality dimension they are more comfortable expressing LGBT openly rather than feeling closeted about it and having lots of built-up resentment.

 

Or, you know, they were big fans of RTS games, and were delighted that a big studio like BioWare was making a quasi-RTS game like Origins. 

 

I mean, I don't care either way. I'm not attached to Origins' system or DA2's ARPG gameplay or Inquisition's open-world. The only types of gameplay I truly care about are stealth games and 3D platformers, both of which would never mesh with Dragon Age's style. But on the other hand - if a modern, AAA game came out that was a 3D platformer, that got back at all my old PS1 and PS2  and Gamecube Era nostalgia, finally scratching my itch for a big-time 3D platformer that wasn't ten years old... only to abandon it and become a shooter because "That's what the millenials want!" I'd be pretty damn pissed too. 

 

Like, saying "If you don't like the new Dragon Age games, you're just a snotty faux-elitist" doesn't sound a whole lot better than "If you DO like the new Dragon Age games, then you're a feminazi casual that's ruining games." People can have legitimate reasons to like or not like the new Dragon Age games, especially if they're more concerned with gameplay over story (And there are certainly people who are more concerned with gameplay over story.)

[Seraphim24]

Or, you know, they were big fans of RTS games, and were delighted that a big studio like BioWare was making a quasi-RTS game like Origins. 

 

I mean, I don't care either way. I'm not attached to Origins' system or DA2's ARPG gameplay or Inquisition's open-world. The only types of gameplay I truly care about are stealth games and 3D platformers, both of which would never mesh with Dragon Age's style. But on the other hand - if a modern, AAA game came out that was a 3D platformer, that got back at all my old PS1 and PS2  and Gamecube Era nostalgia, finally scratching my itch for a big-time 3D platformer that wasn't ten years old... only to abandon it and become a shooter because "That's what the millenials want!" I'd be pretty damn pissed too. 

 

Like, saying "If you don't like the new Dragon Age games, you're just a snotty faux-elitist" doesn't sound a whole lot better than "If you DO like the new Dragon Age games, then you're a feminazi casual that's ruining games." People can have legitimate reasons to like or not like the new Dragon Age games, especially if they're more concerned with gameplay over story (And there are certainly people who are more concerned with gameplay over story.)

 

I didn't say it would sound good, I'm just saying what it is.

 

If you don't like the new Dragon Age games you would just be playing a different game, if you are stuck around here then yeah you probably are a faux-elitist.

 

Incidentally, elitism in all it's form is really always faux I think, basically. Elitist = Weakness.

 

Like, Bioware keeps changing hats and I'm like that's not really an identity, the one that eagerly jumps and tries to take hold of whichever new trend. That's why they're better off just making LGBT rich romance games saving the world with lots of cinematic and getting to know the characters and such. You know that's perfectly fine right?

 

I mean really how many ARPG fans (whatever that is) or open world fans (whatever that is), or D&D fans (wherever they are) did Bioware attract with their strategems in each of those instances anyway? 2-5%? It's meaningless.

 

I still think the sexuality issue is important., people are afraid to come out as LGBT still or just into something LGBT-ish and that causes like I say a lot of pent up resentment.

 

That's exactly why the tumblr reception is so positive, because those people have just accepted themselves and can just get with it.

[Sah291]

I'm not trying to make some objective statement about the quality of DA2 - you liked it and that's great. 
 
I'm just pointing out that DA2 was met with a largely negative reception - outside of this site and Tumblr I hardly ever see it spoken of positively, and very often see it spoken of negatively - and a lot of people mark it as the beginning of BioWare's current downturn. And again, whether or not you agree that it's an actual downturn is up to you - but the community and industry at large has lost a lot of faith.

No I get what you mean. They had a lot riding on DAI, as a reboot of the franchise. I remember those days when DA2 and ME2 came out and how negative fan reaction was at the change in direction in both series. I skipped DA2 when it came out because of it, and only later tried it. And didn't play ME2 until well after ME3 came out and they released the trilogy set. I regret not giving them a shot at the time, because I didn't hate them.

But anyway that's why I'm reluctant to compare the situation with Origins and DA2 to whatever they have planned for DA4. I don't know if they met all the expectations they set with DAI, but I'm not expecting another big reboot in the next game.

[Ellawynn]

I didn't say it would sound good, I'm just saying what it is.

 

If you don't like the new Dragon Age games you would just be playing a different game, if you are stuck around here then yeah you probably are a faux-elitist.

 

Like, Bioware keeps changing hats and I'm like that's their identity, the one that eagerly jumps and tries to take hold of whichever new trend. That's why they're better off just making LGBT rich romance games saving the world with lots of cinematic and getting to know the characters and such. You know that's perfectly fine right?

 

I - look, I don't hate Dragon Age, I don't Inquisition, and I don't hate BioWare. I don't even hate DA2. I wasn't impressed with it, and lost a bit of faith in BioWare for it, but I don't loathe BioWare and everything they do and hang around the forums out of some weird spite (And I mostly hang around the Solas thread anyway, and only came here because, y'know, Solas). I like BioWare and their games. I liked Inquisition - there are parts of it that I think failed, and I'm going to call that out and discuss why, but I don't hate BioWare or Dragon Age. I'm just talking about what I think the problems with it are, and I'm going to keep doing that. Sorry if you think that makes me a faux-elitist. 

 

And if that last paragraph was met to slyly accuse me of being a homophobe that hates BioWare for recognizing that gay people exist, I think we can just end this conversation right here.

 

Honestly guys, you can criticize something and still like it.

[Seraphim24]

I - look, I don't hate Dragon Age, I don't Inquisition, and I don't hate BioWare. I don't even hate DA2. I wasn't impressed with it, and lost a bit of faith in BioWare for it, but I don't loathe BioWare and everything they do and hang around the forums out of some weird spite (And I mostly hang around the Solas thread anyway, and only came here because, y'know, Solas). I like BioWare and their games. I liked Inquisition - there are parts of it that I think failed, and I'm going to call that out and discuss why, but I don't hate BioWare or Dragon Age. I'm just calling out what I think the problems with it are, and I'm going to keep doing that. Sorry if you think that makes me a faux-elitist. 

 

And if that last paragraph was met to slyly accuse me of being a homophobe that hates BioWare recognizing that gay people exist, I think we can just end this conversation right here.

 

I didn't accuse you of anything this forum can be so bananas sometimes.

 

I just said the factors relating to criticism of Bioware often had less to do with the games themselves, and more to do with a weird mix of external and internal factors and issues.

 

I think a lot of people have latent LGBT desires and their equally strong desire to hide them, manifesting itself in this kind of repressed criticism/manufactured psychology thing going on...

 

It's really in many ways hard to objectively see a profound difference in the experience offered by Tresspasser and the non-D&D elements of Baldur's Gate 2, which came out like... 15 years ago or something.

 

Differences and problems may exist, sure, but fundamentally I got this vague sense that people were quite invested in Tresspasser and found it quite a thrilling experience... for instance, and some of those fans go way back. For fans that were more I guess "hardcore" other games probably took hold and they went and did those things.

[Ellawynn]

I didn't accuse you of anything this forum can be so bananas sometimes.

 

I just said the factors relating to criticism of Bioware often had less to do with the games themselves, and more to do with a weird mix of external and internal factors and issues.

 

I think a lot of people have latent LGBT desires and their equally strong desire to hide them, manifesting itself in this kind of repressed criticism/manufactured psychology thing going on...

 

It's really in many ways hard to objectively see a profound difference in the experience offered by Tresspasser and the non-D&D elements of Baldur's Gate 2, which came out like... 15 years ago or something.

 

Differences and problems may exist, sure, but fundamentally I got this vague sense that people were quite invested in Tresspasser and found it quite a thrilling experience... for instance, and some of those fans go way back. For fans that were more I guess "hardcore" other games probably took hold and they went and did those things.

 

Then I'm... I got to admit, I'm plain not sure what you're trying to tell me here. Are you trying to refute the idea that all the gamers who left were "hardcore?" Because I don't believe that they were, and I'm not sure where I stated otherwise. 

 

Are you trying to argue that people don't like Dragon Age because they're all repressing their homosexuality?

 

Well... okay. You can have that opinion, I guess. I don't have that opinion, but that's an argument I don't want or need.

[Seraphim24]

Then I'm... I got to admit, I'm plain not sure what you're trying to tell me here. Are you trying to refute the idea that all the gamers who left were "hardcore?" Because I don't believe that they were, and I'm not sure where I stated otherwise. 

 

I'm saying I don't think any of their gamers were super "hardcore" to begin with... the entire fan-base is basically the same group of people from start to finish.

 

There aren't any gamers that "left" or "came back," it's just the same group of people all as I say have been at times struggling with various issues involving all kinds of things, and not always necessarily regarding the mechanics or elements of the games themselves.

 

I mean there are people who will gnaw at for playing the 4th boss of the 5th chapter of the strategy RTS series whatever the blazes sub-optimally by not re-speccing your X to a Y and how could you not know it's stated on page 12. Those were never hardcore Bioware fans, I would think, may not have even heard of the company, who knows.

 

There are a few that pretend to be them for some reason though....

 

I kind of think we were all the richer for it personally, it's fine for them to be whatever they are.

[Ellawynn]

I'm saying I don't think any of their gamers were super "hardcore" to begin with... the entire fan-base is basically the same group of people from start to finish.

 

There aren't any gamers that "left" or "came back," it's just the same group of people all as I say have been at times struggling with various issues involving all kinds of things, and not always necessarily regarding the mechanics or elements of the games themselves.

 

I mean there are people who will gnaw at for playing the 4th boss of the 5th chapter of the strategy RTS series whatever the blazes sub-optimally by not re-speccing your X to a Y and how could you not know it's stated on page 12. Those were never hardcore Bioware fans, I would think, may not have even heard of the company, who knows.

 

There are a few that pretend to be them for some reason though....

 

I kind of think we were all the richer for it personally, it's fine for them to be whatever they are.

 

I mean... maybe that's true for the BSN. But I definitely wouldn't say that's true for the fanbase as whole, especially since only, what, 30 percent of players even made it to Skyhold? Dragon Age is stupid with fair weather fans that won't play past the first few levels. Nearly every AAA game is.

[German Soldier]

I'm one of the few anti-magic players that support to strengthen the veil or better to  cut off it from the world

At this point i cannot ignore that magic brought destruction and misery beyond the tolerable in Thedas  so let the spirits have the dream world but deny its use for the denizens of the physical world.

[midnight tea]

I mean... maybe that's true for the BSN. But I definitely wouldn't say that's true for the fanbase as whole, especially since only, what, 30 percent of players even made it to Skyhold? Dragon Age is stupid with fair weather fans that won't play past the first few levels. Nearly every AAA game is.

 

But that's true to almost every game title. Maybe 30% reaches to the very end of the game  (of a far shorter game) and only a certain % will sink its teeth into game-play or story (therefore I wouldn't call most of the people who play the games "fanbase" - consumer base maybe). And sometimes "reputation" is merely based on hearsay than actually spending any time in the game. People base opinion on game, franchise or studio due to some slip-ups or one wonky title or controversies. We've seen that happen with pretty much everything, And in that regard Inquisition appears to be a pretty nice success. It has drawn a considerable number of people back in, at least enough to make people aware that the series exists and is doing fine.

[midnight tea]

 

I'm one of the few anti-magic players that support to strengthen the veil or better to  cut off it from the world

At this point i cannot ignore that magic brought destruction and misery beyond the tolerable in Thedas  so let the spirits have the dream world but deny its use for the denizens of the physical world.

 

So basically you support lobotomizing the entire world?

 

Yeah... I can see that going great.

[German Soldier]

So basically you support lobotomizing the entire world?

 

Yeah... I can see that going great.

Lobotomizing based on what evidence?

Your own interpretation of magic as some sort of  6th sense?

[Almostfaceman]

 

Lobotomizing based on what evidence?

Your own interpretation of magic as some sort of  6th sense?

 

 

Based on the Tranquil. There's a natural connection to the Fade for most races, to varying degree. Any race that dreams is going to lose a natural part of who they are. 

 

Thedas =/= real world. The Fade is a natural part of the world. Losing it would not be without consequence. 

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fade

[Xerrai]

 

Lobotomizing based on what evidence?

Your own interpretation of magic as some sort of  6th sense?

 

The tranquil.

So far, only dwarves seem able to live naturally without a connection to the fade that does not impair their psyche. But unlike dwarves, all humans and elves that lack a conection to the fade have all been shown to be little more than unfeeling vessels.

 

Granted, all of these instances have come from the Right of Tranquility, but it still stands that there has been no record of a human/elf who has had their connection to the fade cut and still maintain their ability to feel emotion to a notable degree.

[midnight tea]

 

Lobotomizing based on what evidence?

Your own interpretation of magic as some sort of  6th sense?

 

... Really? It's not "my own interpretation" that when you cut people from the Fade you turn them to Tranquil.