4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

People don't need to understand how to make a bomb to use it. That is one of the prime accusations against technology - giving people, including those who are dangerous, means to accomplish their goals in a fashion unobtainable if it didn't exist - OR alternatively gives an advantage to those who know how to wield it. Which hey, guess what, is pretty much the same accusation leveled at magic in Thedas.

 

 

Technological weapons are used willingly not unwillingly like a mage who is mind controlled by a demon or even the blood magic mind control issues.

 

 

And the downsides were already mentioned - with the Fade being intrinsically connected to the world and its inhabitants, you risk messing up the world in ways that probably nobody would b able to fix.

Which downsides?

It seem to me that people need to enter the fade not to be conscious in it and the veil does not deny to be passed by souls.

[Almostfaceman]

You mean not being in agreement  with you about the benefits of not having to deal with mages anymore due to a stronger veil?

 

I keep having to ask people to read things. Why do you even bother to participate in a thread that requires you to read stuff, when you don't want to read stuff?

 

No. That's the answer to your question.

 

A "stronger Veil" renders mages Tranquil. If you're talking about a stronger Veil that doesn't render mages Tranquil, that doesn't exist. 

A "stronger Veil" will also muck about with the dreaming of non-mages. 

 

You can't eliminate the connection to the Fade (and that's what would happen if you strengthen the Veil) and it not mess with anyone who dreams. 

[Aren]

I keep having to ask people to read things. Why do you even bother to participate in a thread that requires you to read stuff, when you don't want to read stuff?

 

I read stuff it just happen that i don't agree with you.

 

 

No. That's the answer to your question.

 

A "stronger Veil" renders mages Tranquil. If you're talking about a stronger Veil that doesn't render mages Tranquil, that doesn't exist. 

 

Thy claim is supported by?

I don't recall that the veil cut people consciousness from the fade.

 

 

A "stronger Veil" will also muck about with the dreaming of non-mages. 

 

You can't eliminate the connection to the Fade (and that's what would happen if you strengthen the Veil) and it not mess with anyone who dreams. 

The veil does not eliminate the connection with the fade.

[Almostfaceman]

I read stuff it just happen that i don't agree with you.

 

Thy claim is supported by?

I don't recall that the veil cut people consciousness from the fade.

 

The veil does not eliminate the connection with the fade.

 

No, you literally asked a question that indicated you hadn't been reading what's going on.

 

The claim is supported by Tranquility, which is a person being cut off from the Fade, which is the same as further strengthening the Veil. 

 

Do you have an example of a strengthening of the Veil that doesn't further cut off a beings conscious connection with the Fade, thus rending them Tranquil? No, you don't. 

[midnight tea]

Technological weapons are used willingly not unwillingly like a mage who is mind controlled by a demon or even the blood magic mind control issues.

 

What does it have to do with anything? You're missing my point by a mile. Whether something is used "willingly" or "unwillingly" is irrelevant... and in fact inaccurate. In case of possession the demon imposes ITS WILL on someone else's. Same with a mage, who uses blood magic to control others.

 

 

 

Which downsides?It seem to me that people need to enter the fade not to be conscious in it.

 

Yet even people who are 'unconscious' of their connection of the Fade can still be possessed by demons. Whether you like it or not spirits and the Fade are parts of this world - and not only you are proposing for people to stay ignorant of it, and ultimately vulnerable to it (it's heavily implied that a lot of problems in Thedas with the Fade stem in large part from ignorance), you completely ignore that spirits are living beings too, who suffer as well from how the world is now.

[Almostfaceman]

I'm sensing a sock puppet. 

[Aren]

 

The claim is supported by Tranquility, which is a person being cut off from the Fade, which is the same as further strengthening the Veil. 

 

 

I fail to see why the two things should be related in any way?

A tranquil is a single individual unable to enter the fade while no changes happened to the veil.

 

 

Do you have an example of a strengthening of the Veil that doesn't further cut off a beings conscious connection with the Fade, thus rending them Tranquil? No, you don't. 

Can you claim the contrary? No you cannot.

[Almostfaceman]

 

I fail to see why the two things should be related in any way?

A tranquil is a single individual unable to enter the fade while no changes happened to the veil.

 

Can you claim the contrary? No you cannot.

 

 

I can claim the contrary, the Tranquil. It's you who can't support your argument. 

What separates the individual from the Fade? The Veil. The Rite of Tranquility just changes the relationship between the individual and the Veil, hampering the individuals capability to penetrate that Veil. If no Veil existed, there would be no Rite of Tranquility. 

 

Evidence? 

 

It is revealed that proximity to a mage bonded with a Fade spirit can temporarily restore a Tranquil to their former self. 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil

 

Bridging the Veil by means of a Fade spirit strengthens the individuals ability to penetrate the Veil, despite their weakened state via the Rite. 

[Aren]

@midnight

A weapon is a device which bear no responsibility and doesn't' brainwash its owner.

A subject that is being controlled by someone else(demon or blood magic) become unwillingly the weapon.

that's serious issue it is not irrelevant because it describe the key differences between the dangers of Thedas magic and technology.

 

 

Possessed mundanes are much more rare and they are not  abominations.

[Aren]

I can claim the contrary, the Tranquil. It's you who can't support your argument. 

What separates the individual from the Fade? The Veil. The Rite of Tranquility just changes the relationship between the individual and the Veil, hampering the individuals capability to penetrate that Veil. If no Veil existed, there would be no Rite of Tranquility. 

 

Evidence? 

 

It is revealed that proximity to a mage bonded with a Fade spirit can temporarily restore a Tranquil to their former self. 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil

 

Bridging the Veil by means of a Fade spirit strengthens the individuals ability to penetrate the Veil, despite their weakened state via the Rite. 

This isn't an evidence,saying that a spirit can help a tranquil to reconnect with the fade doesn't mean there is an implication with the veil.

It merely say that in order to reverse the rite of tranquility a spirit is needed.

More importantly why strengthen the veil should be equated to a rite of tranquility?

[Almostfaceman]

This isn't an evidence,saying that a spirit can help a tranquil to reconnect with the fade doesn't mean there is an implication with the veil.

It merely say that in order to reverse the rite of tranquility a spirit is needed,what the veil has to do with it?

 

Of course it is evidence. A spirit and mage connection is a strong bridging of what? That's right, the Veil. That effect just bleeds over to the Tranquil. 

 

So where's your evidence that anything outside of Tranquility can be accomplished by strengthening the Veil? You're the one claiming this kind of being can exist. 

[Almostfaceman]

More importantly why strengthen the veil should be equated to a rite of tranquility?

 

Because it's the Veil that separates people from the Fade. There's nothing else mentioned anywhere that does that. 

[Sifr]

Solas suggests that before the Veil, everyone had magic since the Fade and Thedas were one and the same... so the Veil basically severed that ability in the majority of individuals in Thedas, with only a small amount of people now capable of manifesting magic as a result.

 

So clearly strengthening the Veil would further render everyone cut off from the Fade and thus eliminate all magic in Thedas.

[Aren]

Solas suggests that before the Veil, everyone had magic since the Fade and Thedas were one and the same... so the Veil basically severed that ability in the majority of individuals in Thedas, with only a small amount of people now capable of manifesting magic as a result.

 

So clearly strengthening the Veil would further render everyone cut off from the Fade and thus eliminate all magic in Thedas.

I agree on that what i don't agree is that a stronger veil  will make everyone a tranquil , the veil only removed the ability to do magic it didn't severed people emotions.

[Secret Rare]

Solas suggests that before the Veil, everyone had magic since the Fade and Thedas were one and the same... so the Veil basically severed that ability in the majority of individuals in Thedas, with only a small amount of people now capable of manifesting magic as a result.

 

So clearly strengthening the Veil would further render everyone cut off from the Fade and thus eliminate all magic in Thedas.

I wonder why some people can do magic and other can't the veil should act in equal way towards everyone....DA is weird.

[Sifr]

I agree on that what i don't agree is that a stronger veil  will make everyone a tranquil unable to feel emotions, the veil only removed the ability to do magic it didn't severed people emotions.

 

I can see what you're saying, since unlike the Tranquil, Dwarves retain their emotions despite being cut off from the Fade and being unable to do magic. Yet we've seen examples of Dwarves being sent into the Fade, as well as being capable of dreaming under unusual circumstances (Dwarves who become Wardens for instance, or the Dwarf Inquisitor via the Anchor), suggesting that it's merely blocked rather than severed completely.

 

The difference however is that a stronger Veil would further separate people from the Fade, or perhaps even sever the connection completely. Being cut off completely from the Fade is what the Rite of Tranquility was designed to do and we know the effects it has on a person.

[dawnstone]

I agree on that what i don't agree is that a stronger veil  will make everyone a tranquil , the veil only removed the ability to do magic it didn't severed people emotions.

Then imagine a world with a stronger veil, where only the people who were mages still had emotions and dreamed but had no magic, and everyone else was tranquil because the level of strength cut the weaker people off completely. Thedas isn't Earth, if you keep tampering with the artificial construct that broke the world, and break the world even more, it's not going to make things better.

[Aren]

Then imagine a world with a stronger veil, where only the people who were mages still had emotions and dreamed but had no magic, and everyone else was tranquil because the level of strength cut the weaker people off completely. Thedas isn't Earth, if you keep tampering with the artificial construct that broke the world, and break the world even more, it's not going to make things better.

It should be first determined why  mages  in a world with the veil  are able to do magic  before to conclude that a stronger veil is a rite of tranquility.

Mundanes aren't weaker than mages in terms of  power of will yet they can't do magic.

The veil influence the connection with magic but i have not seen  an influence to the emotions.

[dawnstone]

*sigh*

 

[Baboontje]

But how boring would it be though. No more magic. How very....dull.

[German Soldier]

But how boring would it be though. No more magic. How very....dull.

Dull maybe?

But look at the benefits.....

No more templars vs mages,no more circle towers,no more abominations,no more tyrannical empire ruled by crazy mages that can destroy the world,no more mind control,no more breaches,no more demons...just good old political struggles...

That doesn't seem so bad.we eliminated 50% of struggles in Thedas.

[Secret Rare]

 

It should be first determined why  mages  in a world with the veil  are able to do magic  before to conclude that a stronger veil is a rite of tranquility.

 

I would like to know that as well.

Shouldn't everyone be mundanes or just weaker mages?No instead for some unknown reason we have mages and non mages.

[Macha'Anu]

Technological weapons are used willingly not unwillingly like a mage who is mind controlled by a demon or even the blood magic mind control issues.

 

Which downsides?

It seem to me that people need to enter the fade not to be conscious in it and the veil does not deny to be passed by souls.

Except it should be noted that , unless not educated correctly about being a mage and about demons and the consequences and such like the little girl we dicussed at one point and others like her who may have been simply attacked by a mage causing them to be controlled, Most mages bring the demons into themselves...... Willingly.... By messing with magics they are warned could turn against them. Just saying

[mireisen]

I do believe that most gamers like to delve into romances because, like Cassandra says, it's passion that drives us.

 

Personally I think Solas looks creepy as hell. He reminds me of Sonny from iRobot. He looks real and not real and is a representation of grace and grotesqueness both to me. His voice, too. People think he's articulate but I think he's articulate in words, not actual sounds. He's got a lot of that "wet lipped, swollen tongued" speech that I totally find gross. Then again he uses tongue so I guess it makes sense he'd sound like that.

 

But what drew me to finally visit Solavellan hell? He's really interesting to me. He has subtle facial expressions and a heck lot of things are unsaid between him and Lavellan. I find him pretty fun to watch because it reminds me of watching Garrus in Mass Effect. There are these little movements they do that are 100% characterized, even if they're not human. 

[Ieldra]

About the Veil and emotions:

 

It cannot be denied that the spirit world is intrinsically tied to emotions and passions, as evidenced by the fact that the only known way to cut someone off from the Fade also renders them emotionless. Whether the Veil can be strengthened in away that renders magic unoperable but still leaves people their passions is currently unknown, but any attempt to do so is likely to result in a backfire every bit as severe as the result of the original making of the Veil. If the strength of a person's connection to the Veil is personal, and this strengthening of the Veil will weaken that connection by a constant, it is quite possible that mages will become non-mages, but non-mages will become tranquil. 

 

In addition, there is the question of whether it is desirable to cut off an aspect of the world in order to deny it, just to maintain an artificial equality among people. This appears to me as an attempt to reconstruct the world according to a delusion created by the desire to not have people intrinsically more or less powerful than others. The world, however, is not always as we want it to be, and denying that will result in a close-minded society unable to look beyond its own preconceptions. There are people who would be willing to sacrifice open inquiry and an open view of the world for their vision of social justice, but I will always consider them enemies. I consider denying an aspect of the world as fundamentally undesirable.