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[midnight tea]

I was thinking more along the lines of people like Sera or Varric, who for them, their identity is about who they are as a person, and less based on what they think a dwarf or an elf is supposed to be according to their ancestors, etc. They don't put a sense of duty to Dwarven or Elven people first, but to the people they care about and who share their values, who may or may not be Dwarves or Elves. That sort of individualism to make and define their own groups, or way of life.

Solas might share that individualist attitude, but he's obviously struggling with his sense of duty and obligation to his people now, regretting what he did in the past, and the world it has resulted in.

He does compliment Varric's ability to leave it behind and make a new future, but suggests he doesn't have the ability to do the same. So yeah, I do think there is a theme here about the clash between old and new world. How much do we keep and how much do we let go of, etc.

 

Eh, but I don't think Solas is one to put duty above everything, or even elves (as we understand them now at least) over everything, or does so just because he values duty over everything else, as taught by his culture - like I said, if you look close there's an astounding amount of similarity between Solas and Sera; Solas also has very deep reservations about looking at him or other elves and seeing little more than a pair of pointed ears and one of his biggest issues with the Dalish is how isolationist they are and how much they misunderstand what being 'the People' actually means.

 

In fact I'll just quote Weekes' on that: "Honestly, Solas hates people who look at him and just see an elf. He considers that kind of attitude part of the black-and-white dichotomy that has led to so much tragedy in the Dragon Age world. Templars versus mages, demons versus spirits, elves versus humans… it’s more complicated than that. Come to think of it, “It’s more complicated than that,” may actually be Solas’s battle cry."

 

 

Like I said, for me Solas displays a pretty modern mindset - trying to achieve balance between sense of self and sense of duty towards community that is bigger than one particular group. It's interesting to see how many of his peers or ancient elves would share such philosophy, but if we assume that it was (at least one at one point) widespread in Elvenhan then I have to laugh at the irony that Solas's "old thinking" is actually "new thinking" for us, or i fact "new thinking" for modern Thedas Full circle and all.

 

And I do agree that there's a clash of old and new and a struggle of what do we keep and what we should let go. I do think however that the issue may not be as one-sided as it appears to be now - it may be asked of us as well; the question of how much the world itself has to keep or let go in order to potentially grow into something better.

 

It's not like we're not asking that question IRL - how much we can keep and let go of old mindsets or habits in face of globalization and our impact on the planet, or the fact that it's a limited resource? What about how we treat animals, or in fact whole ecosystems? How many of our old beliefs we can hold to in face of the universe being NOT what we expected it to be? 

 

That's what I like about BW stories - escapist as they are, they can make people think about issues that are either current for us, or pretty universal.

[Almostfaceman]

Here's my invective for the day... Bioware why you limit my "likes?" 

 

 

 

[Almostfaceman]

 

Anyway, like I said, I'm glad you guys like him or whatever clearly you are all ecstatic about him but I still think it's perfectly valid for people not to like him. 

 

 

 

This is a... may I be a bit hyperbolic here? ... this is a vast over-simplification of how I've personally seen Solas as a character and how others have described their thoughts on his character. When you don't actually read what's being said, you're bound to get as frustrated as you appear to be. 

 

As penance I suggest you re-read the entire thread, replay Inquisition five times and buy seven Solas action figures. 

 

[Sah291]

Eh, but I don't think Solas is one to put duty above everything, or even elves (as we understand them now at least) over everything, or does so just because he values duty over everything else, as taught by his culture - like I said, if you look close there's an astounding amount of similarity between Solas and Sera; Solas also has very deep reservations about looking at him or other elves and seeing little more than a pair of pointed ears and one of his biggest issues with the Dalish is how isolationist they are and how much they misunderstand what being 'the People' actually means.

 

I see where you're coming from, but I guess I just see it different.

 

I mean, he's obviously conflicted in the base game, so I don't mean to say that it's simple. I think he has a little of both world views. But I think in the end duty has won out for now. Or at least, that is how it appears to me post Trespasser. He's determined to save the elven people and restore their world. But I have to disagree because his drive is ultimately to restore and preserve something lost, and that to me makes him more... traditional I suppose.

 

But it doesn't necessarily mean being isolationist, or close minded, or some of the other problems he has with the Dalish. The Dalish say they care about restoring their culture, and he tried to teach them, and was rejected...either out of fear or because they thought he was crazy, or because the things he taught them probably conflicted with what they thought they knew (like about the vallaslin). 

 

Like I said, for me Solas displays a pretty modern mindset - trying to achieve balance between sense of self and sense of duty towards community that is bigger than one particular group. It's interesting to see how many of his peers or ancient elves would share such philosophy, but if we assume that it was (at least one at one point) was widespread in Elvenhan then I have to laugh at the irony that Solas's "old thinking" is actually "new thinking" for us, or i fact "new thinking" for modern Thedas   Full circle and all

 

Hehe, it's counter intuitive, but I think that's just because history doesn't really go in a straight line... more like, it zig zags, backward and forward, and it repeats.   

[dawnstone]

 

 

As penance I suggest you re-read the entire thread, replay Inquisition five times and buy seven Solas action figures. 

 

 

Oh come on now. You can't ask the impossible. Take my money Bioware, fecking hell, why is there no Solas merch?

[German Soldier]

 

This is a terrible line of thought that has resulted in many people's suffering in the real world. You should really re-evaluate what you're saying, give it some good deep thought, and try to think from someone else's perspective.

Persons able to destroy an entire globe, does not exist IRL but they do in Thedas,these persons can end all life forms at their whims their mere existence is a threat and one can close the eyes just because they need to have magical powers.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Persons able to destroy an entire globe,an entire globe, does not exist IRL 

 

Two words. Nuclear weapons. 

[Almostfaceman]

 

Persons able to destroy an entire globe,an entire globe, does not exist IRL 

 

Two more words. Biological weapons. 

[midnight tea]

Persons able to destroy an entire globe,an entire globe, does not exist IRL but they do in Thedas,these persons can end all life forms at their whims their mere existence is a threat and one can close the eyes just because they need to have magical powers.

 

Duuuude. We almost had an all-out nuclear war because of paranoia of Soviets, and we were saved by one officer ignoring the alarm, bless his soul. 

 

[German Soldier]

Two words. Nuclear weapons. 

Nuclear weapons or biological weapons which are  technological devices that need great expertise are handled by governments not by single persons.

Having said that these weapons can't destroy an entire planet.

Corypheus was able to do that alone ,he crushed the very fiber of the world because a magical experiment went wrong and i'm surely not naive enough to think that he is the strongest mage out there.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Nuclear weapons or biological weapons which are  technological devices that need great expertise are handled by governments not by single persons.

Having said that these weapons can't destroy an entire planet.

Corypheus was able to do that alone ,he crushed the very fiber of the world because a magical experiment went wrong and i'm surely not naive enough to think that he is the strongest mage out there.

 

 

Yes, the weapons can kill us all on the planet.

 

Your argument isn't very strong. Sentient beings have existed on Thedas for thousands and thousands of years (millions) and haven't wiped themselves out even with the proliferation of mages. 

 

Edit: I think Ieldra mentioned earlier that "good" mages counter "bad" mages and this would go far in explaining the survival of everyone for so long up to this point. To this point, we even get to play "hero" mages in each Dragon Age game. 

[Yaroub]

Two words. Nuclear weapons. 

 

 

Two more words. Biological weapons. 

 

The look on Patrick Bateman face is just perfect.

[midnight tea]

 

Nuclear weapons or biological weapons which are  technological devices that need great expertise are handled by governments not by single persons.

Having said that these weapons can't destroy an entire planet.

Corypheus was able to do that alone ,he crushed the very fiber of the world because a magical experiment went wrong and i'm surely not naive enough to think that he is the strongest mage out there.

 

Not only our current weapons can indeed wipe or threaten current life on entire planet NOW, imagine what we'd be able to do a few hundred years later, so long as our technological and scientific progress continues. People were even freaking out at one point when they were building Large Hadron Collider, out of fear that we'd accidentally crate black holes that will swallow an entire planet, lol. I imagine that at one point or another we'd be able to actually do that and if we're not careful there will be accidents. You know, like Chernobyl only far worse if we're not careful (and yes, Chernobyl was an experiment that went wrong, made by a handful of people).

 

Yet the fact that technology (magical or now - because Cory basically used magical technology) exists and is or will be able to let us wipe planets isn't a call for our (or technology or magic's) eradication. That's just silly and counterproductive.

[German Soldier]

Yes, the weapons can kill us all on the planet.

 

These weapons (which obviously are at disposition only of governments not of single individuals) can't destroy an entire planet they don't even come close to  the future of Redcliffe which was the annihilation of the globe between two merged realities from a hole into the veil.

 

 

Your argument isn't very strong. Sentient beings have existed on Thedas for thousands and thousands of years (millions) and haven't wiped themselves out even with the proliferation of mages. 

 

 

Then i have imagined it the crumble of the civilization of the elves.

 

 

Edit: I think Ieldra mentioned earlier that "good" mages counter "bad" mages and this would go far in explaining the survival of everyone for so long up to this point. To this point, we even get to play "hero" mages in each Dragon Age game. 

Good mages counter bad mages is a statement without a sense in which we are defining good and bad based on who know what criteria.

The point is mages can destroy the entire world as single individuals is naive to rely upon the Hero of the hour to solve the issue every time

[midnight tea]

Good mages counter bad mages is a statement without a sense in which we are defining good and bad based on who know what criteria.

The point is mages can destroy the entire world as single individuals is naive to rely upon the Hero of the hour to solve the issue every time

 

Oh, so we're back to defining things now?

Sorry hon, but everything that was said about mages can be in general told about humans. It's they who use magic and it's they who use technology and can use it to good or bad ends. The fact that civilization still stands is a testament that the 'good' can indeed outweigh the 'bad', even if we think only of the most basic of categories.

[German Soldier]

Not only our current weapons can indeed wipe or threaten current life on entire planet NOW, imagine what we'd be able to do a few hundred years later, so long as our technological and scientific progress continues. People were even freaking out at one pint when they were building Large Hadron Collider, out of fear that we'd accidentally crate black holes that will swallow an entire planet, lol. I imagine that at one point or another we'd be able to actually do that and if we're not careful there will be accidents. You know, like Chernobyl only far worse if we're not careful (and yes, Chernobyl was an experiment that went wrong).

 

Yet the fact that technology (magical or now - because Cory basically used magical technology) exists and is or will be able to let us wipe planets isn't a call for our (or technology or magic's) eradication. That's just silly and counterproductive.

Human weapons can destroy the Earth they can at best destroy many life forms and wipe out humanity if massively used(thousand and thousands of units) in war.The Orb of Solas was able to destroy the entire planet,that single object had the capacity to destroy everything which prove that single individuals has this possibility in Thedas.

 

Good luck in creating a black hole with the LHC,rumors aren't scientifically accurate.

[Almostfaceman]

 

These weapons (which obviously are at disposition only of governments not of single individuals) can't destroy an entire planet they don't even come close to  the future of Redcliffe which was the annihilation of the globe between two merged realities from a hole into the veil.

 

Then i have imagined it the crumble of the civilization of the elves.

 

Good mages counter bad mages is a statement without a sense in which we are defining good and bad based on who know what criteria.

The point is mages can destroy the entire world as single individuals is naive to rely upon the Hero of the hour to solve the issue every time

 

 

You just went on (and you continue to go on) about the destruction of the entire world and yet you use the collapse of a civilization as an argument? That's nonsensical. 

 

You go on to repeat yourself and ignore my point which is that mages haven't destroyed the world and have been around for thousands of years. Your call for their elimination is bad and you should feel bad. 

 

Besides, you'll never be able to eliminate them. Enjoy your frustration. I'd advise you go play a game without magic. And that doesn't mean go play Mass Effect. It has its fair share of Space Magic. 

 

There's no magic in Call of Duty, right? 

[dawnstone]

Wooooowww. Ever heard of the Doomsday Clock?

 

http://thebulletin.org/timeline

 

*goes to get real drunk*

[Addictress]

 

Human weapons can destroy the Earth they can at best destroy many life forms and wipe out humanity if massively used(thousand and thousands of units) in war.The Orb of Solas was able to destroy the entire planet,that single object had the capacity to destroy everything which prove that single individuals has this possibility in Thedas.

 

Good luck in creating a black hole with the LHC,rumors aren't scientifically accurate.

 

I heard the LHC could theoretically produce a tiny, unstable black hole, but it would be so tiny and short-lived it wouldn't cause any harm.

[midnight tea]

 

Human weapons can destroy the Earth they can at best destroy many life forms and wipe out humanity if massively used(thousand and thousands of units) in war.The Orb of Solas was able to destroy the entire planet,that single object had the capacity to destroy everything which prove that single individuals has this possibility in Thedas.

 

Good luck in creating a black hole with the LHC,rumors aren't scientifically accurate.

 

The Orb of Solas was actually a specific, one-of-a-kind magical technology that had to soak up energy for millenia in order to actually be dangerous. Technically then it's far more difficult to use or obtain than a nuclear weapon - 1000 of which can create a nuclear winter that can eradicate humanity. Just 1000 - when we have at least 15 times more than that.

 

Also - do frikking read what I'm writing next time, alright? I joked that those were rumors, but that inevitably we're heading in the direction of being able to accomplish just that.

 

As it stands we don't need LHC "rumors" to eradicate life on planet. And at one point another we will have a singular tech piece that will indeed be able to wipe all life at the press of a button - heck, we can launch rain of nuclear missiles at the press of a few buttons right now. What will be your solution to that problem here then - eradicate humanity? Eradicate technology? Lobotomize all people so they'd never-ever be smart enough to create tech like that?

 

To say that such logic is inane is an understatement.

[Xerrai]

 

Human weapons can destroy the Earth they can at best destroy many life forms and wipe out humanity if massively used(thousand and thousands of units) in war.The Orb of Solas was able to destroy the entire planet,that single object had the capacity to destroy everything which prove that single individuals has this possibility in Thedas.

 

Good luck in creating a black hole with the LHC,rumors aren't scientifically accurate.

 

*sigh* If you really feel so strongly about the "Magic should not exist anymore" debacle, then I encourage you to make a thread on the matter. Just as you will attract people who will disagree with you, you can find some who agree with you and your theories.

 

But by this point the argument has become quite grating given the somewhat repetitive nature of your statements. This in addition to the fact that this in a thread that is essentially about Solas. Now it's not like this thread hasn't deviated before, but this has been going on for since page 116, and with barely any traction on either end.  So I suggest a separate thread.

[midnight tea]

I heard the LHC could theoretically produce a tiny, unstable black hole, but it would be so tiny and short-lived it wouldn't cause any harm.

 

AFAIK as of now in LHC we're basically able to create tiny, short-lived Big Bangs.

[Secret Rare]

You just went on (and you continue to go on) about the destruction of the entire world and yet you use the collapse of a civilization as an argument? That's nonsensical. 

 

 

For what i recall the civilization of the elves ended because Solas tried to dodge the world destruction it was the lesser of two evils which mean that the Evanuris had these kind of capacity.

[midnight tea]

For what i recall the civilization of the elves ended because Solas tried to dodge the world destruction it was the lesser of two evils which mean that the Evanuris had these kind of capacity.

 

Yes he did - and he used magic to counter them. Plus, we don't know what exactly the Evanuris tried to do... though there are hints suggesting that they might have been doing something that risked unleashing Blight on everything - a power separate from that of the magic of the Fade, at least in some ways.

[Almostfaceman]

 

For what i recall the civilization of the elves ended because Solas tried to dodge the world destruction it was the lesser of two evils which mean that the Evanuris had these kind of capacity.

 

 

Which only strengthens my argument, that the world has survived with mages for millenia.