4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

Well then the world is doomed either way, so what difference does it make? Either the Inquisitor pre-emptively destroys the entire world by stopping Solas or Solas destroys it all himself later, that's no better,.

 

Actually that's incorrect. He definitely intends to save the world for the elves. So no, the world won't be destroyed. If Corypheus had taken over, letting the Breach go everywhere and red lyrium spread everywhere, then yes that would have been worse. Nobody would survive as Corypheus goofs around playing god in the Fade. 

 

Still, all of this is moot. Bioware isn't going to destroy Thedas. So, it's either going to change (no Veil) or stay the same (keep the Veil). 

 

In dealing with Solas, all of us have to wait.

 

In finding out the rest of what's going on, all of us have to wait. 

 

If you're not looking forward to that, sorry. Sucks to be you. 

[Seraphim24]

Actually that's incorrect. He definitely intends to save the world for the elves. So no, the world won't be destroyed. If Corypheus had taken over, letting the Breach go everywhere and red lyrium spread everywhere, then yes that would have been worse. Nobody would survive as Corypheus goofs around playing god in the Fade. 

 

Still, all of this is moot. Bioware isn't going to destroy Thedas. So, it's either going to change (no Veil) or stay the same (keep the Veil). 

 

In dealing with Solas, all of us have to wait.

 

In finding out the rest of what's going on, all of us have to wait. 

 

If you're not looking forward to that, sorry. Sucks to be you. 

 

Actually your wrong, all that knowledge is in hindsight, at the time, in the theoretical instance you are able to prevent him, that is the correct decision.

 

It would be bad design IMO to discourage skillful reaction and quick thinking which is what that act would be, which is the game's problem ultimately, but yeah it would still be correct for the entire world to be destroyed Solas along with it at that point in time.

 

If you see him racing to press the button on an atomic bomb, you stop him, period, it doesn't matter that in doing so eventually the entire world would be destroyed.

 

Sure, it's better if you trip and fall and it turns out he is just saving the bomb, but like I say, that's the game inappropriately punishing the correct decision at the time. It's not like other games don't have that problem anyway.

 

So, sucks to be everyone in that case.

[Seraphim24]

As is, the fact that game doesn't give you these options and instead makes you play dumb to him the whole game is kind of annoying and one other solution you can do is like, play other games, and like, not really follow DA, cause that's like kind of ok and sort of like, what's been happening.

 

Can't resist this forum though, it just never breaks ever, best programmers ever...

[Almostfaceman]

Actually your wrong, all that knowledge is in hindsight, at the time, in the theoretical instance you are able to prevent him, that is the correct decision.

 

It would be bad design IMO to discourage skillful reaction and quick thinking which is what that act would be, which is the game's problem ultimately, but yeah it would still be correct for the entire world to be destroyed Solas along with it at that point in time.

 

If you see him racing to press the button on an atomic bomb, you stop him, period, it doesn't matter that in doing so eventually the entire world would be destroyed.

 

Sure, it's better if you trip and fall and it turns out he is just saving the bomb, but like I say, that's the game inappropriately punishing the correct decision at the time. It's not like other games don't have that problem anyway.

 

So, sucks to be everyone in that case.

 

All what knowledge is hindsight? That he intends to save the world for the elves? If that's what you're referring to, no, that's not hindsight. He states that plainly several times. That's plainly better than the whole turning into a red lyrium icy pop. 

 

Doesn't suck to be me, I like the way the ending turned out and l'm looking forward to the next game and the reveals. 

[Abyss108]

Actually your wrong, all that knowledge is in hindsight, at the time, in the theoretical instance you are able to prevent him, that is the correct decision.

 

It would be bad design IMO to discourage skillful reaction and quick thinking which is what that act would be, which is the game's problem ultimately, but yeah it would still be correct for the entire world to be destroyed Solas along with it at that point in time.

 

If you see him racing to press the button on an atomic bomb, you stop him, period, it doesn't matter that in doing so eventually the entire world would be destroyed.

 

Sure, it's better if you trip and fall and it turns out he is just saving the bomb, but like I say, that's the game inappropriately punishing the correct decision at the time. It's not like other games don't have that problem anyway.

 

So, sucks to be everyone in that case.

 

 

I'd say that making a rash judgement that could destroy the entire world is the incorrect choice and should be punished - if presented with another option, to understand and empathise and find a better solution for everyone, which we have been in this situation. Making rash blanket statements about a person should not be encouraged. Thankfully, Weekes has shown he agrees with me on this subject repeatedly...

[Seraphim24]

All what knowledge is hindsight? That he intends to save the world for the elves? If that's what you're referring to, no, that's not hindsight. He states that plainly several times. That's plainly better than the whole turning into a red lyrium icy pop. 

 

Doesn't suck to be me, I like the way the ending turned out and l'm looking forward to the next game and the reveals. 

 

It's about the act, he has a crazy plan, when does he take a step towards achieving it? That's when he is a threat.

[Seraphim24]

I'd say that making a rash judgement that could destroy the entire world is the incorrect choice and should be punished - if presented with another option, to understand and empathise and find a better solution for everyone, which we have been in this situation. Making rash blanket statements about a person should not be encouraged. Thankfully, Weekes has shown he agrees with me on this subject repeatedly...

 

Whoa you mean like Solas is doing?

[Almostfaceman]

He doesn't state the costs until later though, my recollection, which is kind of the important element there.

 

It depends on what viewpoint you're referring to. If you're talking about the Inquisitor, yeah. If you're referring to the player, no. A player can clearly take a meta approach to the whole series and to the game and it's ending. I've clearly been speaking from a player meta viewpoint. 

[Seraphim24]

It depends on what viewpoint you're referring to. If you're talking about the Inquisitor, yeah. If you're referring to the player, no. A player can clearly take a meta approach to the whole series and to the game and it's ending. I've clearly been speaking from a player meta viewpoint. 

 

Well wait a sec, I can buy the assumption that there's no alternative, but that's not remotely proven either.

[Abyss108]

Whoa you mean like Solas is doing?

 

 

I think we are all agreed that what Solas is doing is bad.

[Almostfaceman]

Well wait a sec, I can buy the assumption that there's no alternative, but that's not remotely proven either.

 

And you lost me. There's no alternative to what? What hasn't been proven? 

[Seraphim24]

Ok I see what you are saying, the idea is he basically got the world to a state of near oblivion, and he is also the only one who can remedy it.

 

Well A) That just makes for a super boring game when one character is this super-demi god like entity that controls anything and everything and just makes for a poor quality artistic experience IMHO. The answer to that is to let Solas scurry around in his little video game box world whereas others go play other games. He's just like a super Mary Sue or whatever (I think I'm using that term right?) and so it's easy not to like him on those grounds. He can be rejected purely for that reason alone ignoring any and all other reasons, that would be sufficient.

 

B ) Truly? He is the only solution? Qunari raiding doesn't mean imminent destruction, I know that part. Also I don't know why the heroes can't stop Corypheus why is Solas necessary for that?

[Almostfaceman]

I think we are all agreed that what Solas is doing is bad.

 

Yup, what Solas states he wants to do in Trespasser is bad for everyone except perhaps the elves. If things remain as-is he needs to be stopped/killed. If there turns out to be a less bloody alternative to lowering the Veil I'm down for that. 

[Abyss108]

Ok I see what you are saying, the idea is he basically got the world to a state of near oblivion, and he is also the only one who can remedy it.

 

Well A) That just makes for a super boring game when one character is this super-demi god like entity that controls anything and everything and just makes for a poor quality artistic experience IMHO. The answer to that is to let Solas scurry around in his little video game box world whereas others go play other games. He's just like a super Mary Sue or whatever (I think I'm using that term right?) and so it's easy not to like him on those grounds.

 

Truly? He is the only solution.

 

 

A Mary Sue is a character that can do no wrong, that every other character adores, and that can never have anything bad happen to them. Considering that everything Solas is currently doing is wrong, all the other characters in the universe agree it is wrong, plenty of characters dislike him, and we will have the opportunity to kill him in the next game, I'm not seeing how the term Mary Sue has anything to do with him.

[Seraphim24]

A Mary Sue is a character that can do no wrong, that every other character adores, and that can never have anything bad happen to them. Considering that everything Solas is currently doing is wrong, all the other characters in the universe agree it is wrong, plenty of characters dislike him, and we will have the opportunity to kill him in the next game, I'm not seeing how the term Mary Sue has anything to do with him.

 

Well I'll just state he's a dumb character for being so important and determining so many things, that's like the most video-game element, so he sucks, he's not fun, he makes the game and world worse and more boring. Lets just assume it is necessary that he live and make all these mundane pronouncements and play hero to his own disaster, fine, that all is just emotionally un-resonant and poor, and certainly justifies playing other games.

 

Who cares what the label is, ultimately.

 

I mean really, who can deny just saying he is a lame character for being such a screw up and taking up so much screentime? Sure maybe it's canonically correct to wait for him to discover 2nd grade ethics, but practically speaking from a consumer/video game standpoint the solution is to dump him and his franchise.

[Abyss108]

Well I'll just state he's a dumb character for being so important and determining so many things, that's like the most video-game element, so he sucks, he's not fun, he makes the game and world worse and more boring. Lets just assume it is necessary that he live and make all these mundane pronouncements and play hero to his own disaster, fine, that all is just emotionally un-resonant and poor, and certainly justifies playing other games.

 

Who cares what the label is, ultimately.

 

I mean really, who can deny just saying he is a lame character for being such a screw up and taking up so much screentime? Sure maybe it's canonically correct to wait for him to discover 2nd grade ethics, but practically speaking from a consumer/video game standpoint the solution is to dump him and his franchise.

 

 

Considering he's one of the most popular characters, a lot of people.

 

I think he's probable the most well written character I've seen in a game, and this is the most interesting plot line. That's after 23 years of playing every video game with a decent plot I can get my hands on, and after studying english literature at college (aka character studies etc).

 

You are obviously free not to like it, but saying things like "un-resonent and poor" and that people can't deny it is ridiculous, when there are legions of players of who do find it incredibly well written.

 

You also seem to be arguing that the villain should not be important or get screen time, when one of the most popular opinions on Bioware games is that their villains are poor and do not get enough screentime/characterization, which Solas is the perfect solution to. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Wow, I left BSN for a couple of days and now the thread is arguing about semantics of synonym. What happened ?

Oh, you know, same-old, same-old really. It's basically standard operating procedure to do stuff like this.

[Akiza]

Considering he's one of the most popular characters

How did you know that?

If only by using Bsn as a source then i think that is just a small niche to determine if Solas is really popular or not among all the millions of players who bought DAI.

[midnight tea]

How did you know that?

If only by using Bsn as a source then i think that is just a small niche to determine if Solas is really popular or not among all the millions of players who bought DAI.

 

We can try and extrapolate it from, say, popularity of Trespasser, which prime marketing strategy was the promise of meeting/dealing with/questioning Solas. And if we believe Mike Laidlaw (DA Creative Director) Trespasser sold tremendously well, and the general reaction to it from both fans and critics was pretty much overwhelmingly positive.

 

Then there are also sites that gather a good deal of DA fandom - say Tumblr (with a very large DA fandom presence) or AO3.

 

Spoiler

 

I'd like to point out that Solas/PC ship comes second in popularity to Cullen/PC ship out of two DA characters that the statistics actually picked - and Cullen had an established (albeit minor) presence since DAO, while these are statistics from end of 2015. So 4 months after release of Trespasser and about a year after release of base game Solas became one of the most popular characters to write fanfiction about not just among DA fans, but entire Ao3.

[Akiza]

We can try and extrapolate it from, say, popularity of Trespasser, which prime marketing strategy was the promise of meeting/dealing with/questioning Solas. And if we believe Mike Laidlaw (DA Creative Director) Trespasser sold tremendously well, and the general reaction to it from both fans and critics was pretty much overwhelmingly positive.

And if we believe Mike Laidlaw (DA Creative Director) Trespasser was very popular indeed.

Trespasser can't be more popular than the base game because there are many players who tend to not buy Dlc in general also because the Dlc wasn't even available for some console.Seeing how Bioware never released estimation of DAI and Trespasser (real numbers rather than just comments) i don't think it is possible to determine anything.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Trespasser can't be more popular than the base game because there are many players who tend to not buy Dlc in general also because the Dlc wasn't even available for some console.Seeing how Bioware never released estimation of DAI and Trespasser (real numbers rather than just comments) i don't think it is possible to determine anything.

 

He's popular enough to have you lurking in one of his threads. 

 

[midnight tea]

 

Trespasser can't be more popular than the base game because there are many players who tend to not buy Dlc in general also because the Dlc wasn't even available for some console.Seeing how Bioware never released estimation of DAI and Trespasser (real numbers rather than just comments) i don't think it is possible to determine anything.

 

Who ever said anything about "the game being more popular than the base game" (which was actually very popular too, btw)??

 

But the popularity of DLC actually speaks volumes of both popularity of it and the last chapter of DA, precisely because it shows how popular the base stayed among the player-base, ready to pay for additional content a year after main game's release. The fact that its release got limited to just 3 platforms yet it still apparently sold really well also should speak favorably towards popularity of DLC. I also repeat again - it's no coincidence that they've marketed the DLC the way they did, if Solas WASN'T a popular character. At one point you couldn't pass  DA fan on forum OR on YouTube or Tumblr without anybody quoting "I suspect you have questions"....

 

Also - I can't give you "real numbers", because EA doesn't publish them, but we're not talking about 3rd-hand comments either, but words straight of DA Leads' mouth.

 

Also, I've edited past comment and added some info on popularity of a character on a popular fanfiction site, look it up.

[Abyss108]

How did you know that?

If only by using Bsn as a source then i think that is just a small niche to determine if Solas is really popular or not among all the millions of players who bought DAI.

 

 

From every source on the internet where I've seen people post about him. 

 

Of course, that doesn't mean everyone in the universe did, but if you think the general public is going to have the opposite reaction to a character compared to anyone who posts on the internet, I think you need to back that up with some kind of reasoning. Especially when people are 10 times more like to post a complaint than a compliment. 

 

+ the stuff midnight tea posted.

[BansheeOwnage]

We can try and extrapolate it from, say, popularity of Trespasser, which prime marketing strategy was the promise of meeting/dealing with/questioning Solas. And if we believe Mike Laidlaw (DA Creative Director) Trespasser sold tremendously well, and the general reaction to it from both fans and critics was pretty much overwhelmingly positive.

 

Then there are also sites that gather a good deal of DA fandom - say Tumblr (with a very large DA fandom presence) or AO3.

 

Spoiler

 

I'd like to point out that Solas/PC ship comes second in popularity to Cullen/PC ship out of two DA characters that the statistics actually picked - and Cullen had an established (albeit minor) presence since DAO, while these are statistics from end of 2015. So 4 months after release of Trespasser and about a year after release of base game Solas became one of the most popular characters to write fanfiction about not just among DA fans, but entire Ao3.

Wow, holy Cullen/Solas! That's crazy. Also, I'm not sure why they both have 2 categories (especially the Solas one), but if you add them together it's even more impressive and would place Cullen at the top and Solas in 3rd on their list. Huh.

 

Anyway, Solas is clearly a popular character. It seems rather obvious to me, and I don't think I'm biased since I'm not as into Solas as some.

[Akiza]

From every source on the internet where I've seen people post about him. 

 

Of course, that doesn't mean everyone in the universe did, but if you think the general public is going to have the opposite reaction to a character compared to anyone who posts on the internet, I think you need to back that up with some kind of reasoning. Especially when people are 10 times more like to post a complaint than a compliment. 

 

+ the stuff midnight tea posted.

Let's just say that i will back it up with the reasoning that the general public intended as the tons  of casual gamers tend to not invest much like the fans of the series about its characters(heck i think many gamers don't even reach the end of the base game) as they play the game and not touch it again.

They may remember a DA character but not necessarly talk about it.