4635 réponses à ce sujet

[midnight tea]

Wow, holy Cullen/Solas! That's crazy. Also, I'm not sure why they both have 2 categories (especially the Solas one), but if you add them together it's even more impressive and would place Cullen at the top and Solas in 3rd on their list. Huh.

 

Anyway, Solas is clearly a popular character. It seems rather obvious to me, and I don't think I'm biased since I'm not as into Solas as some.

 

I myself was surprised with Solas's popularity when I first saw the stats - I mean these are not just DA stats, it's all across al fandoms that post their fanfiction there.

What's more, Solas is something of a "newcomer" as well, while Cullen-centered fanfics were written long before DAI (both of them are underlined since both ships produced at least 50% of their fanworks in 2015, but it's safe to assume that probably 90% of Solas-centered fanfiction was written that year, given that the base game arrive at the 2nd half of November 2014, while Cullen's percentage is unknown).

 

Some may sneer at fanfiction and focus of a lot of them, but given the sheer number of both fanfiction and fanart created about the character and response to them (oftentimes thousands of views, likes or reblogs) I'd say it's quite indicative of what characters are popular across the fandom, if not entire playerbase.

 

As for separate categories - it depends what actual pairing the fanfiction uses. Female Lavellan/Female Trevelyan are fanfictions specifically between female Lavellan or Trevelyan, while Female Inquisitor is still a female/x pairing, but not necessarily those two: they could be f.Trevelyan/Solas or f.Lavellan/Cullen or f. Cadash or f. Adaar and either of those.

[Abyss108]

Let's just say that i will back it up with the reasoning that the general public intended as the tons  of casual gamers tend to not invest much like the fans of the series about its characters(heck i think many gamers don't even reach the end of the base game) as they play the game and not touch it again.

They may remember a DA character but not necessarly talk about it.

 

 

I said that Solas is one of the more popular characters. What does the general public caring less in general about characters have to do with that? You are now just saying the public cares less about every character, which has no relation to how popular Solas is compared to other characters. 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

As for separate categories - it depends what actual pairing the fanfiction uses. Female Lavellan/Female Trevelyan are fanfictions specifically between female Lavellan or Trevelyan, while Female Inquisitor is still a female/x pairing, but not necessarily those two: they could be f.Trevelyan/Solas or f.Lavellan/Cullen or f. Cadash or f. Adaar and either of those.

I just thought it was odd because it's not a Female Inquisitor/Anyone pairing, it's either Treveylan/Cullen specifically or Female Inquisitor/Cullen, which I thought was a bit redundant since Female Inquisitor/Cullen covers everything. Same with Levellan/Solas and Female Inquisitor/Solas. Just me.

[midnight tea]

Let's just say that i will back it up with the reasoning that the general public intended as the tons  of casual gamers tend to not invest much like the fans of the series about its characters(heck i think many gamers don't even reach the end of the base game) as they play the game and not touch it again.

They may remember a DA character but not necessarly talk about it.

 

But that's true of any "casual" gamer that is not a follower of the series. Heck, most 'casual players' don't even finish their games (IIRC maybe 30% of playerbase reach the end in games that are more than a few hours long) and don't care about characters at all, so it's disingenuous to expect character to be popular or recognized among them - it'd be good enough if they recognize the brand, much less any character featured there, and it's true of DAI as it was of DAO, or any story really that doesn't follow one character or a relatively small group of recurring characters.

 

And Bioware doesn't craft the story for casual players but those invested in the series - for casual players they have a general, broad focus (a big bad and their defeat at the end of story) and some fireworks, while the leave meaty details to their actual audience. You can hear the sentiment spoken about by current DA lead in recent Can't Talk interview, when he was talking about his involvement in ME story and some details of characterization in it: "the players who don't care - whatever. You're not there for the players who don't care. I mean the players who don't care - they've got a big cutscene, and monsters fighting and stuff blowing up and all they know is they've completed the quest; it's fine. But the players who DO care - they're invested and they're there."

[Lucidae]

It's really a good thing DAI got more development time. Can you guys even believe that at one point the game was supposed to release WITHOUT Cullen and Solas as romance options? Good thing they changed that ;]

[BansheeOwnage]

It's really a good thing DAI got more development time. Can you guys even believe that at one point the game was supposed to release WITHOUT Cullen and Solas as romance options? Good thing they changed that ;]

Very, very good thing indeed. If there was no Cullen and Solas, straight women would get the short end of the romance stick again (not that anyone should get it), and it would have been depressing. I mean, Blackwall or Bull? They really thought that would appeal to most women? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with liking them, but my point still stands.

 

Anyway

[nightscrawl]

Wow, holy Cullen/Solas! That's crazy. Also, I'm not sure why they both have 2 categories (especially the Solas one), but if you add them together it's even more impressive and would place Cullen at the top and Solas in 3rd on their list. Huh.
 
Anyway, Solas is clearly a popular character. It seems rather obvious to me, and I don't think I'm biased since I'm not as into Solas as some.

I just thought it was odd because it's not a Female Inquisitor/Anyone pairing, it's either Treveylan/Cullen specifically or Female Inquisitor/Cullen, which I thought was a bit redundant since Female Inquisitor/Cullen covers everything. Same with Levellan/Solas and Female Inquisitor/Solas. Just me.

When I used to read (a limited amount of) Cullen fanfiction it was only the f.Trevelyan/Cullen ones, as that is what I played when I did his romance and had the most interest in. If I ever decide to read Dorian fanfic (doubtful), it will only be m.Trevelyan/Dorian fics, for the same reason.
 
What metric is used to define an "active" ship? The number of fics with those tags, or kudos, or a combination?
 
I'm not very familiar with AO3... People can list multiple categories, right? A single fic could have both f.Inquisitor/Cullen AND f.Trevelyan/Cullen. A single fic could also have f.Inquisitor/Cullen AND f.Lavellan/Cullen. Or it may be the case that some f.Inquisitor/Cullen authors just list it as that alone and don't narrow it down to a specific Inquisitor, so this would include all races, in addition to the unavailable (in the game) Cadash and Adaar options. Perhaps the f.Lavellan/Cullen ones are less popular among fic writers? In general, we know that human is a more popular race, so I'd think that accounts for some of that disparity.

[Akiza]

I said that Solas is one of the more popular characters. What does the general public caring less in general about characters have to do with that? You are now just saying the public cares less about every character, which has no relation to how popular Solas is compared to other characters. 

OH pardon i didn't wanted to know how much he is popular among the Dragon Age Characters i wanted to know how much he is popular in general among gamers.

[German Soldier]

OH pardon i didn't wanted to know how much he is popular among the Dragon Age Characters i wanted to know how much he is popular in general among gamers.

I think that in order to make a guess and an estimation about how much popular a character is in the whole video game community(not just within Dragon age) a lot of factors has to be taken into accounts:

 

-What kind of game the character belong to in this case an rpg and rpgs are not populars as others kind of games in the industry where for popular i mean numbers of unit sold.Bioware never released numbers and surely i have no reason to just "believe" the lead designer with no data his statmenets are way too generic.

 

 

-How much "old" the character is in the video game industry which means how many time they appeared and Solas certanly isn't an old precence in the video game industry he is a relatively new character.

 

 

In the whole video game industry i think Solas would not even feature the top 100 of the most popular character i think not even the top 200

[roselavellan]

Very, very good thing indeed. If there was no Cullen and Solas, straight women would get the short end of the romance stick again (not that anyone should get it), and it would have been depressing. I mean, Blackwall or Bull? They really thought that would appeal to most women? I'm not saying there is anything wrong with liking them, but my point still stands.

 

Anyway

 

Totally agree with you there... but why did you say "again"? I personally was satisfied with our choices in DAO and DA2. Not having been around these forums during the release of DA2, I missed a lot of the reception. Did some women find Anders and Fenris not traditionally attractive enough?

[Abyss108]

OH pardon i didn't wanted to know how much he is popular among the Dragon Age Characters i wanted to know how much he is popular in general among gamers.

 

 

None of the characters are popular among general gamers because general gamers have never even heard of dragon age, never mind played it.

 

Not sure what that has to do with how Solas is written though.

[Sah291]

Totally agree with you there... but why did you say "again"? I personally was satisfied with our choices in DAO and DA2. Not having been around these forums during the release of DA2, I missed a lot of the reception. Did some women find Anders and Fenris not traditionally attractive enough?[/size]

I don't know but this was famously a problem in ME, where by ME3, you could end up with no option at all, if Kaidan died in ME1 and you didn't romance Garrus in ME2.

I guess in DA2 and DO there's a disproportionate amount of tragic or difficult romances. Anders always blows up the Chantry. Fenris always runs away for a while. Alistair had a lot of hoops to jump through to get a happpy ending. Blackwall is in this vein too. Although, so is Solas, and he's popular so I'm not sure.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

When I used to read (a limited amount of) Cullen fanfiction it was only the f.Trevelyan/Cullen ones, as that is what I played when I did his romance and had the most interest in. If I ever decide to read Dorian fanfic (doubtful), it will only be m.Trevelyan/Dorian fics, for the same reason.
 
What metric is used to define an "active" ship? The number of fics with those tags, or kudos, or a combination?
 
I'm not very familiar with AO3... People can list multiple categories, right? A single fic could have both f.Inquisitor/Cullen AND f.Trevelyan/Cullen. A single fic could also have f.Inquisitor/Cullen AND f.Lavellan/Cullen. Or it may be the case that some f.Inquisitor/Cullen authors just list it as that alone and don't narrow it down to a specific Inquisitor, so this would include all races, in addition to the unavailable (in the game) Cadash and Adaar options. Perhaps the f.Lavellan/Cullen ones are less popular among fic writers? In general, we know that human is a more popular race, so I'd think that accounts for some of that disparity.

Wait, how could a story (fanfics are stories, right?) have both a female Trevelyan and a female Inquisitor, etc.? I'm confused, sorry I am also not very familiar with that site or fanfiction in general, so I don't know how this works.

 

Totally agree with you there... but why did you say "again"? I personally was satisfied with our choices in DAO and DA2. Not having been around these forums during the release of DA2, I missed a lot of the reception. Did some women find Anders and Fenris not traditionally attractive enough?

Well, I was referring to Bioware games in general, and as Sah pointed out, the options for straight women across ME were infamously lacking compared to straight men or even lesbians (gay men only got any options in the third game).

 

As for Dragon Age, yes it's better, but Sah also pointed out why it can come across this way. In DA2, Anders is a tragic romance no matter what, and you only have one other option, whereas in DA:I Solas is a tragic romance no matter what, but you have 3 other options, at least. DA:I still has plenty of potential for tragic romances for females though, since all of them can end badly, but at least not all of them have to. It just seems like Bioware likes to make the straight female romances the tragic ones all the time, and don't really spread that around much.

 

I'm honestly not sure how attractive Anders and Fenris were found since I wasn't around here when DA2 was released either.

[dawnstone]

Wait, how could a story (fanfics are stories, right?) have both a female Trevelyan and a female Inquisitor, etc.? I'm confused, sorry I am also not very familiar with that site or fanfiction in general, so I don't know how this works.

It has to do with tagging.

 

A writer can tag their story with as many pairing tags as they want on AO3, to make it easier for people to find their work on the site.

 

So say a writer has a story where they're getting Cullen and F!Trevelyan together, they can tag it Cullen Rutherford/Female Trevelyan, Cullen Rutherford/Female Inquisitor, Cullen/Inquisitor, Cullenmance, blah blah blah, though some of those tags will be merged in the search engine. The Cullen Rutherford/Female Inquisitor  tag can catch romances with all the other FemQuisitors, too, so you'll get multiple different races if you only search that tag (fanfic or mods are basically the only way you're going to get an Fem!Adaar or Fem!Cadash romance with Cullen). 

 

Redundant and overtagging is a big complaint with users of the site, but honestly I'd rather be able to make things more specific than less, especially when it comes to trigger warnings and content info on more explicit stuff.

[BansheeOwnage]

It has to do with tagging.

 

A writer can tag their story with as many pairing tags as they want on AO3, to make it easier for people to find their work on the site.

 

So say a writer has a story where they're getting Cullen and F!Trevelyan together, they can tag it Cullen Rutherford/Female Trevelyan, Cullen Rutherford/Female Inquisitor, Cullen/Inquisitor, Cullenmance, blah blah blah, though some of those tags will be merged in the search engine. The Cullen Rutherford/Female Inquisitor  tag can catch romances with all the other FemQuisitors, too, so you'll get multiple different races if you only search that tag (fanfic or mods are basically the only way you're going to get an Fem!Adaar or Fem!Cadash romance with Cullen). 

 

Redundant and overtagging is a big complaint with users of the site, but honestly I'd rather be able to make things more specific than less, especially when it comes to trigger warnings and content info on more explicit stuff.

Ah, okay, thanks, I understand now! It's like tagging videos on youtube before uploading them.

[Akiza]

None of the characters are popular among general gamers because general gamers have never even heard of dragon age, never mind played it.

 

Not sure what that has to do with how Solas is written though.

I never asked anything about how Solas was written but quoted a message that made me curious about his popularity

[roselavellan]

I don't know but this was famously a problem in ME, where by ME3, you could end up with no option at all, if Kaidan died in ME1 and you didn't romance Garrus in ME2.

I guess in DA2 and DO there's a disproportionate amount of tragic or difficult romances. Anders always blows up the Chantry. Fenris always runs away for a while. Alistair had a lot of hoops to jump through to get a happpy ending. Blackwall is in this vein too. Although, so is Solas, and he's popular so I'm not sure.

 

Well, I was referring to Bioware games in general, and as Sah pointed out, the options for straight women across ME were infamously lacking compared to straight men or even lesbians (gay men only got any options in the third game).

 

As for Dragon Age, yes it's better, but Sah also pointed out why it can come across this way. In DA2, Anders is a tragic romance no matter what, and you only have one other option, whereas in DA:I Solas is a tragic romance no matter what, but you have 3 other options, at least. DA:I still has plenty of potential for tragic romances for females though, since all of them can end badly, but at least not all of them have to. It just seems like Bioware likes to make the straight female romances the tragic ones all the time, and don't really spread that around much.

 

I'm honestly not sure how attractive Anders and Fenris were found since I wasn't around here when DA2 was released either.

 

Thanks, Sah and BansheeOwnage. I didn't know that about ME, that sounds awful. The romances in the DA series can be tragic, I agree. Personally I don't mind an avoidable potential for tragedy (like Alistair), even if it's not that easy to avoid, because at least those who feel strongly enough about it can choose to re-do the romance quest/playthrough or even metagame. An unavoidably tragic romance ending would feel unfair though (Anders... and perhaps Solas).

 

Perhaps it's not so much whether it's tragic or not which determines how compelling a romance is, but more the qualities of the LI. I think both Cullen and Solas have some qualities that are traditionally attractive, which is why they have become more popular with female gamers. Solas in particular has been superbly written, which makes his romance compelling, even though it is a tragic one (for now... I still hold out hope we might get a satisfying ending).

[nightscrawl]

Wait, how could a story (fanfics are stories, right?) have both a female Trevelyan and a female Inquisitor, etc.? I'm confused, sorry I am also not very familiar with that site or fanfiction in general, so I don't know how this works.

I know Dawnstone answered you already, but I want to be more succinct.
 
ALL f.Trevelyans ARE f.Inquisitors, but not all f.Inquisitors are f.Trevelyans. A f.Trevelyan/Cullen fic can be tagged with both and it is true for that fic.
 
Unfortunately, it becomes a problem when there is not consistency among the tagging. Not all authors will choose to break down their pairing by race and may just put f.Inquisitor. The reasons for doing this are manifold: they may want the fic to see more traffic, they may feel that there isn't anything especially elfy or humanish in the fic itself, so any distinction is superfluous, the fic itself may be written in an intentionally vague manner so as to appeal to the widest array of Inquisitors possible, the author may not think the distinction is necessary or important, and so on.

 

 

Apologies for the digression. Back to Solas...

 

 

[edit]

I'd also suggest that, with regard to Cullen and Solas specifically, that the distinction of class (mage versus non-mage) might actually be more important. I'd imagine that the majority of pairings are with mages, so a reader who has a warrior that takes the templar spec (and all the problems that come with it), might want to read like fics.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 mai 2016 - 11:22 .

[BansheeOwnage]

I know Dawnstone answered you already, but I want to be more succinct.
 
ALL f.Trevelyans ARE f.Inquisitors, but not all f.Inquisitors are f.Trevelyans. A f.Trevelyan/Cullen fic can be tagged with both and it is true for that fic.
 
Unfortunately, it becomes a problem when there is not consistency among the tagging. Not all authors will choose to break down their pairing by race and may just put f.Inquisitor. The reasons for doing this are manifold: they may want the fic to see more traffic, they may feel that there isn't anything especially elfy or humanish in the fic itself, so any distinction is superfluous, the fic itself may be written in an intentionally vague manner so as to appeal to the widest array of Inquisitors possible, the author may not think the distinction is necessary or important, and so on.

 

Apologies for the digression. Back to Solas...

Thanks to you both for clarifying

 

Thanks, Sah and BansheeOwnage. I didn't know that about ME, that sounds awful. The romances in the DA series can be tragic, I agree. Personally I don't mind an avoidable potential for tragedy (like Alistair), even if it's not that easy to avoid, because at least those who feel strongly enough about it can choose to re-do the romance quest/playthrough or even metagame. An unavoidably tragic romance ending would feel unfair though (Anders... and perhaps Solas).

 

Perhaps it's not so much whether it's tragic or not which determines how compelling a romance is, but more the qualities of the LI. I think both Cullen and Solas have some qualities that are traditionally attractive, which is why they have become more popular with female gamers. Solas in particular has been superbly written, which makes his romance compelling, even though it is a tragic one (for now... I still hold out hope we might get a satisfying ending).

I'm with you, I don't mind if a romance can be tragic, but if it will be no matter what you do, it's not for me. So as much as I hope straight women can get a bit of a break and have the tragic romances spread around more evenly in DA4 (if they have them), I also selfishly hope that if I am interested in a character it won't be them

 

But yes, it's not just about the tragic aspect, like you said. There are other aspects of Solas and Cullen that are apparently quite popular among women that you might not find in, say, DA2. For example: Cullen is a knightly, charming, conventionally-attractive, awkward ball of stoic sweetness, and Solas is a very intellectual and knowledgeable, witty geek (and other things discussed in this thread), and many like his voice a lot. They don't fill nearly the same categories as Fenris or Anders.

[Seraphim24]

Well ok so I guess theoretically you could do worse than a racially genocide minded narcissistic maniac, I don't really know how, but there's so much evil in the world I'm sure it's possible. 

 

We really need to just call Solas what he is though, at least, in order to have a rational discussion, and that's exactly what he is.

[nightscrawl]

Well ok so I guess theoretically you could do worse than a racially genocide minded narcissistic maniac, I don't really know how, but there's so much evil in the world I'm sure it's possible. 

 

We really need to just call Solas what he is though, at least, in order to have a rational discussion, and that's exactly what he is.

 

Really...? That's a little much. I'm not a huge Solas fan or anything, but he seems more misguided than anything else.

 

I don't think it's possible to have a "rational" discussion if you're going to resort to such hyperbole to describe him, as that indicates that you have no interest in true discussion and would rather just bash the character.

[nightscrawl]

But yes, it's not just about the tragic aspect, like you said. There are other aspects of Solas and Cullen that are apparently quite popular among women that you might not find in, say, DA2, for example: Cullen is a knightly, charming, conventionally-attractive, awkward ball of stoic sweetness, and Solas is a very intellectual and knowledgeable, witty geek (and other things discussed in this thread), and many like his voice a lot. They don't fill nearly the same categories as Fenris or Anders.

Angst was the name of the game for DA2, for ALL romances, regardless of gender, especially when you factor in the non-romance related aspects of the character. So many people wanted someone who was stable and "normal," which is one reason that Avaline, Bethany, and Varric had their fans.


[edit]
I suppose I should add that I'm a big fan of angst, which is one reason I enjoy the Dorian romance. But some of the DA2 folks had very serious issues, far beyond anything exhibited in DAI.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 30 mai 2016 - 01:48 .

[Seraphim24]

Really...? That's a little much. I'm not a huge Solas fan or anything, but he seems more misguided than anything else.

 

I don't think it's possible to have a "rational" discussion if you're going to resort to such hyperbole to describe him, as that indicates that you have no interest in true discussion and would rather just bash the character.

 

That's pretty much what he verbatim describes as his plan though.

 

It's, I need to save my people specifically, Elves, i.e. not all the other people, and doing so means killing off just about everyone else. That's racially motivated genocide.

[Almostfaceman]

That's pretty much what he verbatim describes as his plan though.

 

It's, I need to save my people specifically, Elves, i.e. not all the other people, and doing so means killing off just about everyone else. That's racially motivated genocide.

 

How much of this thread have you read? 

[midnight tea]

That's pretty much what he verbatim describes as his plan though.

 

It's, I need to save my people specifically, Elves, i.e. not all the other people, and doing so means killing off just about everyone else. That's racially motivated genocide.

 

Lol, we don't even know who really his people are. In fact, after Halamshiral, he slips up and reveals that he considers MAGES to be his people - those with conscious connection to the Fade. And guess what, he plans to restore conscious connection to the Fade to ALL people of Thedas.

 

In other words, it's hardly as simplistic as you paint it, and we've discussed this ad nauseum on this thread.