4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Macha'Anu]

*Waits for Hanako to mention that warrior in the real world middle-ages who had a prosthetic*

 

Maybe I should just make a ready-to-paste pre-made post explaining how the lack of forearm isn't a huge issue so I can use it in these cases without having to rewrite it every time.

 

Uh, you're the person who hasn't played Trespasser, right? At least I hope so, because you completely missed the point of Solas' plan. None of what you just listed accomplishes what he's trying to do.

 

Not maybe, but most definitely. There is something common to Bioware heroes (and most heroes) no matter how you roleplay them, and one of those things is that they'll do instead of not doing. You think the Inquisitor is just going to sit around, retired, on beaches while they not only know that there is another world-ending threat approaching, but that they happen to be one of the only people who even believes it's going to happen and one of the best sources of knowledge on their opposition in Thedas?

 

Realistically, there is not going to be one version of the game where the Inquisitor is active and another where they aren't (especially since as Midnight Tea said the Inquisitor retiring/Inquisition fully disbanding is a ruse to maintain secrecy). It's two totally different stories. So I just hope they choose the one that makes sense.

 

Edit:

Im not completely daft to think shes going to go have margharitas and swim in clear blue beaches. my goddess. really....

In fact MY inquisitor offered to help solas, as she loved the fade too and was sick to death of the mages and templars having back and forth "lets see who can be more evil" contests, and the racism nad ignorance of the chantry, and the arrogance of the grey wardens. And the blindness of the dalish. sick to death of it. so there is that. Im just saying here we are all arguing over something that none of us will actually get cause we all know bioware does what they wanna do. But everyone has their own idea of how the end of the game and the off time goes. None of us really should be telling anyone of us our idea of it is wrong. its our game. after all. sure it wont be that way come the next game but who cares really. Im still looking forward to seeing what happens in the next installment and im not going to come to the forums to throw tantrums when what i want to happen doesn't but i can almost guess who will. And im almost 100 percent sure there will be a lot. Me im just going to appreciate they bothered to make a next game and go with it. Sure sure it would be cool for it to meld together better but I like the games and i take what the VAs say in various interviews to heart. Sometimes its not biowares fault and yet bioware is always willing to take the punches.

[midnight tea]

Im not completely daft to think shes going to go have margharitas and swim in clear blue beaches. my goddess. really....

In fact MY inquisitor offered to help solas, as she loved the fade too and was sick to death of the mages and templars having back and forth "lets see who can be more evil" contests, and the racism nad ignorance of the chantry, and the arrogance of the grey wardens. And the blindness of the dalish. sick to death of it. so there is that. Im just saying here we are all arguing over something that none of us will actually get cause we all know bioware does what they wanna do. But everyone has their own idea of how the end of the game and the off time goes. None of us really should be telling anyone of us our idea of it is wrong. its our game. after all. sure it wont be that way come the next game but who cares really. Im still looking forward to seeing what happens in the next installment and im not going to come to the forums to throw tantrums when what i want to happen doesn't but i can almost guess who will. And im almost 100 percent sure there will be a lot. Me im just going to appreciate they bothered to make a next game and go with it. Sure sure it would be cool for it to meld together better but I like the games and i take what the VAs say in various interviews to heart. Sometimes its not biowares fault and yet bioware is always willing to take the punches.

 

Sure, it's our game, but we should be aware when your headcanon interferes with canon - and in canon no Inquisitor is implied to have any real "off time"; it's all working towards what is going to happen in DA4, at least in the scenario where BW will give us exactly what they're promising to give us in Trespasser.

[Macha'Anu]

Sure, it's our game, but we should be aware when your headcanon interferes with canon - and in canon no Inquisitor is implied to have any real "off time"; it's all working towards what is going to happen in DA4, at least in the scenario where BW will give us exactly what they're promising to give us in Trespasser.

I still never said she was gonna go take a vacation and pretend like the world wasnt faling to poo. it was implied i thought it by others. Thats my point. My my headcanon is just fine

[BansheeOwnage]

@Macha'Anu Just a friendly suggestion: If you space out your posts with paragraphs, it will make it a lot easier on the eyes and easier to read. The term "too long, didn't read" can sometimes happen not because there are too many words, but because of walls of text, so more people will read your posts if you keep that in mind. Again, I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just a suggestion

[R0vena]

I remember playing DAi for the first time. I played female rogue Trevelyan who was more supportive of templars and did not trust mages much. Because of that it took her a  very long time to reach a friendship with Solas (she did not exile wardens, either). I remember feeling very sorry about that since I myself really liked Solas' character. So composed, intellectual, polite, but in the same time not without humor! When I saw that hidden scene I was like "He is who???? Omg! I am sooo totally romancing him in my next PT!" I really love it when a LI is so relevant to the major plot! (Still prefer Fenris over Anders, but in that case Anders' relevance to the plot is just not enough since Fenris beats him in just any other category for me.)

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Building a new society instead of grasping for an old, dead and diseased one? Nah, much better having everyone "burn in the ensuing chaos and bring back my people" (while also destroying any kind of progress modern-day elves have made in the last century)
 
Really Dalish-ish, now that i think about it (the 'not leaving the past behind' part)

It's pointless of reclaiming a broken past by death and destruction. It would be a better alternative to rebuild someplace else to start over and Solas could finally rest and settle down with his wife.

[Abyss108]

"Rebuilding" somewhere else doesn't fix anything.

 

- The entire species is terminally ill. People aren't supposed to grow old and die in Thedas. Literally every single person is wasting away from this "aging" disease thats shouldn't exist. It's hard to imagine what that would look when we live in a world where that is natural, but I seriously doubt if the entire population of the world came down with an illness that wasted away their body until they died much much earlier than they were supposed to we would be OK just living with it from now on. It would be a hundred times worse if this happened in a world where death didn't exist in the first place.

 

- Solas can't possibly contact every single Elf that might want to just rebuild somewhere else. Even assuming he could convince everyone he isn't just a crazy guy, he can't travel to every single person that might want to join him, and that vast majority of Elves live in poverty and wouldn't be able to travel to him, not to mention all those that can't travel due to slavery/imprisonment, or those that are just children, or Elves that are born in the future that might have wanted to join him. "Rebuilding" requires him to sacrifice 99% of the people he would want to help, to immediately help an incredibly small minority of them, and not even those that are in the worst situation.

 

- Spirits can't rebuild. They are dragged through to Thedas and abused and murdered. Solas treats spirits as people, and clearly wants to save them as well. Rebuilding is just abandoning those spirits as well to be forever abused and killed.

 

- It's heavily implied something bad is coming regarding the taint/blights and that this is related to the Elves as well. Solas questions what will happen after the Wardens kill the last Archdemon, and heavily implies it will be very very bad. Rebuilding does nothing to fix this, it would just be waiting around to die.

 

- That's just the stuff we know. It's heavily implied there are other things going on in the plot right now, we just don't know what yet.

[nightscrawl]

- The entire species is terminally ill. People aren't supposed to grow old and die in Thedas. Literally every single person is wasting away from this "aging" disease thats shouldn't exist. It's hard to imagine what that would look when we live in a world where that is natural, but I seriously doubt if the entire population of the world came down with an illness that wasted away their body until they died much much earlier than they were supposed to we would be OK just living with it from now on. It would be a hundred times worse if this happened in a world where death didn't exist in the first place.

 
I don't think this is accurate. The aging thing didn't happen overnight. The elves of today, and for many generations past, have never known anything except a life where they age and die as do the other races in Thedas. They know that it was so because of histories, such as they are, not because they experienced it. Currently, Solas, as well as and Abelas and his people, are the only elves around who truly understand what the elves of today have lost.

 

I can be told that my ancestors were immortal, and I might wonder why that was, and why I am not, or what it would be like, and so on, but that really has no impact on my actual life. My parents aged and died, and so did my grand parents, and their parents, as I eventually will. That this didn't happen to my great, great, great, great times fifty ancestor doesn't mean anything at all.

 

Even if Solas does succeed, it might take several generations for the elves to regain their immortality. We don't know at the moment.

[Almostfaceman]

 
I don't think this is accurate. The aging thing didn't happen overnight. The elves of today, and for many generations past, have never known anything except a life where they age and die as do the other races in Thedas. They know that it was so because of histories, such as they are, not because they experienced it. Currently, Solas, as well as and Abelas and his people, are the only elves around who truly understand what the elves of today have lost.

 

I can be told that my ancestors were immortal, and I might wonder why that was, and why I am not, or what it would be like, and so on, but that really has no impact on my actual life. My parents aged and died, and so did my grand parents, and their parents, as I eventually will. That this didn't happen to my great, great, great, great times fifty ancestor doesn't mean anything at all.

 

Even if Solas does succeed, it might take several generations for the elves to regain their immortality. We don't know at the moment.

 

Actually we have no idea how quickly elves lost their immortality but according to Solas it may have happened at the event putting the Veil in place. If that's the case, that's an instant problem. It certainly had an instant effect to the constructs (and elves) in the Crossroads. The Dalish legends are so muddy and incorrect they can't be taken with any seriousness regarding this loss of immortality. 

 

Your argument seems to be shifting some gears, perspective-wise. I think Abyss is speaking more from a metagaming viewpoint and you're speaking more from an in-universe perspective. Maybe that's the heart of the disagreement here? 

[nightscrawl]

^ Well, regardless of whether it was instant for the ancestors, or not, the fact remains that the current elves have no living memory of being immortal. Solas isn't really giving them something they have lost, because they never had it to begin with, rather he is (attempting) to provide a new state of being.

[CardButton]

 
I don't think this is accurate. The aging thing didn't happen overnight. The elves of today, and for many generations past, have never known anything except a life where they age and die as do the other races in Thedas. They know that it was so because of histories, such as they are, not because they experienced it. Currently, Solas, as well as and Abelas and his people, are the only elves around who truly understand what the elves of today have lost.

 

I can be told that my ancestors were immortal, and I might wonder why that was, and why I am not, or what it would be like, and so on, but that really has no impact on my actual life. My parents aged and died, and so did my grand parents, and their parents, as I eventually will. That this didn't happen to my great, great, great, great times fifty ancestor doesn't mean anything at all.

 

Even if Solas does succeed, it might take several generations for the elves to regain their immortality. We don't know at the moment.

Am I the only one who genuinely thinks that the people Solas is trying to save is literally "his" people and is still planning on condemning the modern Elves to the same fate as the rest of modern Thedas?  If Abelas and the elves at the ToM is any indication there are at least some ancient Elvhen that are still alive, just the evidence that there are survivors removes the idea that the "species" is extinct.  Who knows how many of those baldies are still alive, hidden throughout the world or in areas like the Crossroads?   

Hmm ... though perhaps I'm simply taking Abelas words "You are not my people" more literally than most.  He gained no real benefit if it was intended as an insult, he gains no benefit from insulting "shadows wearing vallislin" at all, so I sort of just assumed he was stating a fact.  That despite their similar appearance their is something drastically different between Modern Elves and Ancient Elvhen that would distinguish the two enough for them not to be considered the same "species (either physically or magically).  I mean obviously there is a massive difference in culture, but perhaps there is more?  From the way Solas was speaking to a Lavellan he didn't seem to have any intention of saving them, let alone any elf for that matter ... though maybe I'm reading too much into it?

[Hellion Rex]

So I was watching X Men Apocalypse the other day and one character in the movie reminded me of Solas. Here he is:-

 

*snip*
 

That sounds a lot like Solas at the end of Trespasser.

 

This is probably what he tells his new Elven recruits.

 

With a couple of adjustments, this line fits Solas as well.

 

Solas and Corypheus are both very much like En Sabah Nur / Apocalypse. Corypheus was more up in your face about it, Solas was more discreet about it.

 

Heck, Solas absorbed Flemeth/Mythal's power the same way En Sabah Nur/Apocalpyse does with his soul transfer ritual, which grants him the power of the host Mutant body in addition to the ones he already has.

 

Solas = Elven En Sabah Nur.

 

Now we know what Solas meant when he said he did not wish for Lavellan to see what he will become. He is going to become blue, wear a fancy blue Ancient Elven armor and try to destroy Thedas.

Ho boy, now this is a stretch. Solas isn't even remotely like En Sabah Nur at all. I hate Solas as much as the next guy, but he isn't even remotely like Apocalypse, short of their desire to change the world.

[nightscrawl]

Am I the only one who genuinely thinks that the people Solas is trying to save is literally "his" people and is still planning on condemning the modern Elves to the same fate as the rest of modern Thedas?

No, not the only one. As the original post seemed to assume that was the case, or at least reference the modern elves (or all Thedosians? I wasn't quite sure with the reference to "species,") I thought I'd just roll with it.

BUT, we don't really know what will happen if and when the Veil is lowered. Is everyone going to "die"? Will the transition be so traumatic that most people (of ALL races) will lose their minds and start killing each other? Will "the magic come back" as Sandal says? Is every living being going to transform, rejuvenated like the old folks in Cocoon?

 

No one knows anything, and Solas himself is very vague.

 

From the way Solas was speaking to a Lavellan he didn't seem to have any intention of saving them, let alone any elf for that matter ... though maybe I'm reading too much into it?

This is how I took it as well, but I've seen other posts in this thread that seem to suggest it's more involved.

[Abyss108]

 
I don't think this is accurate. The aging thing didn't happen overnight. The elves of today, and for many generations past, have never known anything except a life where they age and die as do the other races in Thedas. They know that it was so because of histories, such as they are, not because they experienced it. Currently, Solas, as well as and Abelas and his people, are the only elves around who truly understand what the elves of today have lost.

 

I can be told that my ancestors were immortal, and I might wonder why that was, and why I am not, or what it would be like, and so on, but that really has no impact on my actual life. My parents aged and died, and so did my grand parents, and their parents, as I eventually will. That this didn't happen to my great, great, great, great times fifty ancestor doesn't mean anything at all.

 

Even if Solas does succeed, it might take several generations for the elves to regain their immortality. We don't know at the moment.

 

 

I'm talking from Solas' point of view. If I woke up several thousands years in the future and it turned out everyone had a terminal illness that crippled them and made them die a year after being born and it was my fault, and that every single future being that ever exists will also be born with this, and be forced to watch everyone they know die from it and mourn, I wouldn't just shrug and expect them to live with it because they don't know any better. That's not something its so simple to just ignore and "rebuild" from.

[nightscrawl]

BUT, we don't really know what will happen if and when the Veil is lowered. Is everyone going to "die"? Will the transition be so traumatic that most people (of ALL races) will lose their minds and start killing each other? Will "the magic come back" as Sandal says? Is every living being going to transform, rejuvenated like the old folks in Cocoon?
 
No one knows anything, and Solas himself is very vague.

You know, in light of this, I'm wondering if there can truly be any suspense at all over whether this event will happen.
 
I rather doubt Thedas will turn into some hellscape, but let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Sandal's prophecy is accurate and that "the magic will come back." Does this mean that everyone will be a mage?
 
If we look at that from just a game development perspective, that is a complete transformation of the very core of the series, basically eliminating the divide of the classes. Sure, we may still have classes, but they might all have some magical components, or perhaps they will be more akin to Witchers.
 
I don't really see that happening. It could, I suppose, but I just don't find it likely.

[Seraphim24]

I'm talking from Solas' point of view. If I woke up several thousands years in the future and it turned out everyone had a terminal illness that crippled them and made them die a year after being born and it was my fault, and that every single future being that ever exists will also be born with this, and be forced to watch everyone they know die from it and mourn, I wouldn't just shrug and expect them to live with it because they don't know any better. That's not something its so simple to just ignore and "rebuild" from.

 

That is just pure fantasy though none of what you said is actually true.

 

Moreover, Solas would be the disease in that analogy, therefore, he can't possibly be the cure.

[animedreamer]

Am I the only one who genuinely thinks that the people Solas is trying to save is literally "his" people and is still planning on condemning the modern Elves to the same fate as the rest of modern Thedas?  If Abelas and the elves at the ToM is any indication there are at least some ancient Elvhen that are still alive, just the evidence that there are survivors removes the idea that the "species" is extinct.  Who knows how many of those baldies are still alive, hidden throughout the world or in areas like the Crossroads? 

 

 

to believe this you'd have to overlook several instances where Solas specifically makes references to the Elves of Modern Thedas as well as the sacrifice he makes at the end of the game involving Flemeth. Solas during his nap, wasn't cut off from the world in the sense he was blind to what was going on, he is all to aware what has transpired and what has become of "His people." When he first awoke he tried to contact the Dalish but they wouldn't believe him or listen to him, they were already grasping at straws about something they knew nothing about. So to him they were a lost cause but he never said they weren't Elves, just that they were ignorant. His interactions with Sera and a romanced Lavellan also betray his true feelings about modern Elves, and how much he wants them to remember what they truly are if not regain that level of self awareness. He is constantly trying to get Sera to tap into her natural Elfiness (lol) by asking her what she feels when interacting with things he believes all Elves are or should be aware of or have a affinity for and for the most part he is right, Sera's natural affinity toward freedom, her inquisitive nature, and even her sixth sense regarding magic things are insights Solas notices and tries to get her to embrace, with Lavellan he outright asks her what she thinks their ancestors would think about her learning the Knight Enchanter discipline. If you drank from the well, he ask you what will you do with that power, and while fumbling with answer if Lavellan says restore what was lost Solas is surprised as it could be interpreted as restoring the Elves, and Solas notes on that and Lavellan stumbles but agrees. 

 

Basically there are times where Solas out right does things that directly show his favoritism towards the modern day elves even if they are a fallen people.

[German Soldier]

 

 

- The entire species is terminally ill. People aren't supposed to grow old and die in Thedas. Literally every single person is wasting away from this "aging" disease thats shouldn't exist. It's hard to imagine what that would look when we live in a world where that is natural, but I seriously doubt if the entire population of the world came down with an illness that wasted away their body until they died much much earlier than they were supposed to we would be OK just living with it from now on. It would be a hundred times worse if this happened in a world where death didn't exist in the first place.

 

 

Not sure where this came from but not begin aging is something that pertains elves into specific circumstances of the world it's not a natural condition of people of Thedas.

 

 

 

- It's heavily implied something bad is coming regarding the taint/blights and that this is related to the Elves as well.

 

Solas questions what will happen after the Wardens kill the last Archdemon, and heavily implies it will be very very bad. Rebuilding does nothing to fix this, it would just be waiting around to die.

 

 

I heard this several times by now and never saw a shred of evidence for it.

 

Solas never stated nor implied anything like that or do i need to post the whole dialogues with Blackwall?

[Abyss108]

That is just pure fantasy though none of what you said is actually true.

 

Moreover, Solas would be the disease in that analogy, therefore, he can't possibly be the cure.

 

It's completely true. 

 

Not sure where this came from but not begin aging is something that pertains elves into specific circumstances of the world it's not a natural condition of people of Thedas.

 

I heard this several times by now and never saw a shred of evidence for it.

 

Solas never stated anything like that or do i need to post the whole dialogues with Blackwall?

 

 

It doesn't pertain to Elves in "specific circumstances", it's how they always existed until Solas came along. The "specific circumstance" here is their current state, due to the Veil.

[Aren]

 

 

Solas never stated nor implied anything like that or do i need to post the whole dialogues with Blackwall?

From those dialogues i recall that Solas implied that kill the old gods will not remove the darkspawns issue from the world which is something obvious i did not need him to know that.

I disagree for now with the notion that the death of the old gods will release an uber Chutulu or something worse from the underground since that's really going into tales territory.

[Seraphim24]

It's completely true. 

 

 

 

It doesn't pertain to Elves in "specific circumstances", it's how they always existed until Solas came along. The "specific circumstance" here is their current state, due to the Veil.

 

I honestly can't even tell what you are using as the basis for that analogy though.

 

At any rate, even if people were dying in a short time frame, Solas's solution of murdering everyone would not solve anything. You can't kill a person with deadly suddenly arising terminal illness to "save" them from the disease, that's insane.

 

That isn't to say it doesn't happen, in fact it's a pretty super common thing in history, people with power realize they are failures and can't prevent death or solve major problems so they decide to just kill everyone to prove no one could of solved it or the solution was unnecessary in light of the fact that their now dead.

[German Soldier]

 

 

 

 

It doesn't pertain to Elves in "specific circumstances", it's how they always existed until Solas came along. The "specific circumstance" here is their current state, due to the Veil.

Not sure why you imply that the veiless world is the natural state of the world rather than something created from the spirits and the elves to suit their needs in the physical realm of the titans.

[Aren]

Not sure why you imply that the veiless world is the natural state of the world rather than something created from the spirits and the elves to suit their needs in the physical realm of the titans.

Which is something implied through allegories from the chant of light in regard of spirits.

 

Every spell  is interrupted if the caster isn't alive.

If Solas really created the veil from scratch than his own death should undo the whole thing however it's seem  that the veil isn't sustained by

anything so i'm questioning if the thing is an unnatural construct all that Solas did was probably to reinforce the structure.

 

From the elven library it was stated that the fade wasn't merged with the world even at the time of the Evanuris.

[Abyss108]

I honestly can't even tell what you are using as the basis for that analogy though.

 

At any rate, even if people were dying in a short time frame, Solas's solution of murdering everyone would not solve anything. You can't kill a person with deadly suddenly arising terminal illness to "save" them from the disease, that's insane.

 

That isn't to say it doesn't happen, in fact it's a pretty super common thing in history, people with power realize they are failures and can't prevent death or solve major problems so they decide to just kill everyone to prove no one could of solved it or the solution was unnecessary in light of the fact that their now dead.

 

When you live for eternity, 70 years is a very short time frame. That's shorter than the time that used to be spent casting a single spell. 

 

Solas obviously isn't going to murder everyone anymore than he murdered everyone the first time he destroyed the world.

 

 

Not sure why you imply that the veiless world is the natural state of the world rather than something created from the spirits and the elves to suit their needs in the physical realm of the titans.

 

 

Because there's nothing to suggest what you just said.

[Seraphim24]

When you live for eternity, 70 years is a very short time frame. That's shorter than the time that used to be spent casting a single spell. 

 

So?

 

Solas obviously isn't going to murder everyone anymore than he murdered everyone the first time he destroyed the world.

 

He is though. Besides wouldn't destroying the world time be sufficient for punish...

 

Think of it like a job interview what's Solas's contribution? I uh, killed a lot of people before, and I can still do it!

 

Solas is just all talk, he can't save anyone or anything, he can barely save himself, the fact that he can't prevent himself from destroying others is why he should locked in some kind of magical psychiatric institution for eternity. No freedom, maybe even find a magical concoction to neutralize his brain so he can no longer think actively or conjure spells, just make him a vegetative lifeless husk. Only then would Thedas be safe.