4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Oh, it's Ok,  I already committed racial genocide by picking Destroy option in ME 3. I guess it is too late for me to turn to the light now.))

 

Ha! Well at least you are sort of approaching some of honesty......

[Seraphim24]

lol. Geez. 

 

I know!

[R0vena]

Ha! Well at least you are sort of being honest...

I am always honest. Also pretty, smart and very modest.

[Seraphim24]

I am always honest. Also pretty, smart and very modest.

 

Hm! How charming

 

Well no one said you couldn't talk a smooth talk whilist also endangering the entire world and otherwise ripping apart this fragile thing called life in half.

[lynroy]

let me try and get this Solas defense thing down.

 

*childish*

Once again ignoring the rest of my post. Cheers, darling.

[Seraphim24]

Once again ignoring the rest of my post. Cheers, darling.

 

Hey! You didn't tell me how I did!

 

Without feedback what are we to do in this life!

[Seraphim24]

I am always honest. Also pretty, smart and very modest.

 

You know you also bring up an interesting point which is that racial genocide is a theme in a lot of Bioware games if you look closely (a lot of media generally) Krogan, Geth, Reapers, I think the point is that racial judgment is on the mind of a lot of people but Solas is I guess designed to vindicate the evil path logic but that's completely insane when you think about it.

 

Instead, they should be vindicating their struggle against it (i.e. you don't kill Wrex you don't wipe out the X, wipe out the Y).

 

It's like a character designed to take the tendency in ME characters and go WHOA YEAH I DID THE RENEGADE THING YEAH BABY!

 

And your like W-.... wait..... wait.....................................

 

So you..... wanted to kill all those people because of their skin color or whatever?

 

Um.

 

I think GoT is the same way, it's like this attachment to viewing the entire world through cheap racial or other stereotypes, people from the east are aggressive and violent, people who are super white are excessively noble, women are subservient (even Daenaerys needs constant attention when you think about it). Europeans are fiendishly calculating and low grade morality.

 

And yet it's well, a popular show, so... there you go.

[IllustriousT]

Where's Viddasala when you need her? 

 

Anyway...

 

[R0vena]

Hm! How charming

 

Well no one said you couldn't talk a smooth talk whilist also endangering the entire world and otherwise ripping apart this fragile thing called life in half.

Absolutely. And now I am returning to endangering the world and ripping... whatever I am ripping... (gosh, so many evil things on my mind, I really get confused sometimes).

 

Ah! Got it! Returning to the topic, I am really curious to see what exactly developers have in mind for us regarding Solas plan. They kept it so vague (deliberately, of course) it is really hard to figure out. It might affect how we view Solas, too. I just hope it will not involve red/green/blue buttons...

[Seraphim24]

I'd actually agree even that it's just a game, go fantasies galore, but we're all kidding ourselves if we didn't know these attitudes pervaded in actual society. Everyone knows a "Solas" like person in real life.

 

The power infrastructures I grew up with (teachers, society, etc) encourage you to pick a position based on your skin color, for instance, anyone I don't want to get too personal, but basically it's all there and this whole rocking pile of horse feces needs to go straight into the garbage at one point or another, preferably sooner rather than later.

 

And the only people that can do it aren't the people that keep wanting to try and prove they can do it.

[R0vena]

You know you also bring up an interesting point which is that racial genocide is a theme in a lot of Bioware games if you look closely (a lot of media generally) Krogan, Geth, Reapers, I think the point is that racial judgment is on the mind of a lot of people but Solas is I guess designed to vindicate the evil path logic but that's completely insane when you think about it.

 

 

Well, genocide and racial genocide are quite common results of wars and wars on the big scale (Hero must do that or all are doomed!) are usually in the center of Bioware games, so no wonder this particular theme keeps showing up.

[Seraphim24]

Absolutely. And now I am returning to endangering the world and ripping... whatever I am ripping... (gosh, so many evil things on my mind, I really get confused sometimes).

 

Ah! Got it! Returning to the topic, I am really curious to see what exactly developers have in mind for us regarding Solas plan. They kept it so vague (deliberately, of course) it is really hard to figure out. It might affect how we view Solas, too. I just hope it will not involve red/gree/blue buttons...

 

Haha! Isn't that just it, so many things

[Macha'Anu]

Absolutely. And now I am returning to endangering the world and ripping... whatever I am ripping... (gosh, so many evil things on my mind, I really get confused sometimes).

 

Ah! Got it! Returning to the topic, I am really curious to see what exactly developers have in mind for us regarding Solas plan. They kept it so vague (deliberately, of course) it is really hard to figure out. It might affect how we view Solas, too. I just hope it will not involve red/gree/blue buttons...

At this point there is no telling. I am kinda hoping we see more of what we saw in descent. That left me intrigued.

[Seraphim24]

Well, genocide and racial genocide are quite common results of wars and wars on the big scale (Hero must do that or all are doomed!) are usually in the center of Bioware games, so no wonder this particular theme keeps showing up.

 

Not to say we can't ever move past these things, because, well, we can.. I'm told this was sort of the point of DA2... I didn't really see it myself but I don't know, maybe a little bit.

[midnight tea]

Absolutely. And now I am returning to endangering the world and ripping... whatever I am ripping... (gosh, so many evil things on my mind, I really get confused sometimes).

 

Ah! Got it! Returning to the topic, I am really curious to see what exactly developers have in mind for us regarding Solas plan. They kept it so vague (deliberately, of course) it is really hard to figure out. It might affect how we view Solas, too. I just hope it will not involve red/gree/blue buttons...

 

TBH I don't know. What we do know however is that they're certainly not stumbling in the dark. According to David Gaider they've been planning main events in Inquisition even prior to development of DA2 - and after they sat to plan out DA3 initially they thought that the story will be twice as long. Thing is it was a bit too much, so what they've turned out to do is... well... they've chopped the story in half. And that part of story is not gone - it will basically be DA4, or at the very least significant part of it.

 

So, basically, whatever it's coming, they know exactly where they're heading to. Obviously there will be changes in details along the way, as they usually are - and we can never say for certain that "2nd part of Inquisition" has or had resolution to conflict with Solas.

 

What does seem apparent is that the world is going to change in some way. Flemeth goes on and on about it. We have prophecies like the one of Sandal or dreams of Leliana. Some could say that this could have been dropped, but I don't think it is - not with current reveals and not with Flemeth basically marching to Inquisitor, whom she can declare that they're basically the "herald of the new age", while OGB Kieran calls his mother "Inheritor" who awaits that age.

 

We know nothing of Morrigan being immortal, and the whole 'herald' thing (and titles like First-Thaw - funny title for some, but Svarah eloquently explains that it's one that means "when the ice breaks and new spring comes to give life to the world") reeks of this whole change thing being imminent and therefore tied strongly with either Solas's plans or whatever comes right after him.

[R0vena]

At this point there is no telling. I am kinda hoping we see more of what we saw in descent. That left me intrigued.

Oh, yes, the end of Descent left my mouth watering. I really hope whatever we are doing in the next game will help the dwarves get the connection with Titans (and as a result - magic) back. Then in the DA 5 we can play as dwarven mage!

 

Not to say we can't ever move past these things, because, well, we can.. I'm told this was sort of the point of DA2... I didn't really see it myself but I don't know, maybe a little bit.

 

I always thought main point of DA 2 was not exactly the smaller scale as such, but different hero approach - failing no matter what in compare to usual triumphant victories. Feels quite depressing after a while, to be honest.

 

 

 

So, basically, whatever it's coming, they know exactly where they're heading to. Obviously there will be changes in details along the way, as they usually are - and we can never say for certain that "2nd part of Inquisition" has or had resolution to conflict with Solas.

 

What does seem apparent is that the world is going to change in some way. Flemeth goes on and on about it. We have prophecies like the one of Sandal or dreams of Leliana. Some could say that this could have been dropped, but I don't think it is - not with current reveals and not with Flemeth basically marching to Inquisitor, whom she can declare that they're basically the "herald of the new age", while OGB Kieran calls his mother "Inheritor" who awaits that age.

 

We know nothing of Morrigan being immortal, and the whole 'herald' thing (and titles like First-Thaw - funny title for some, but Svarah eloquently explains that it's one that means "when the ice breaks and new spring comes to give life to the world") reeks of this whole change thing being imminent and therefore tied strongly with either Solas's plans or whatever comes right after him.

 

Yes, I agree, there it will be changes, too much foreshadowing for them not to come. (Or Bioware will get a golden medal for trolling on the epic scale.) On one side I hope it will be something massive (and we'll have a good variations of ending choice with all shades from Doom to All! to Perfect World - of different types since everybody's idea of perfection is different), but then, I guess, they'll have to end the series... and I really like them, so I am very torn....))

[Sah291]

Has anyone in this thread actually claimed to support Solas' plan? Mind, I may have missed some while trying to speed read posts before work.

I do, actually... well, in theory. I'd support a Thedas with magic and spirits present, and a non Veil world possibly.

But I think the thing really being debated is change. And that makes it a very different argument, because when you are talking big change on the large scale, change is disruptive, chaotic, destructive, and sometimes violent, which is much harder to justify.

[Macha'Anu]

I do, actually... well, in theory. I'd support a Thedas with magic and spirits present, and a non Veil world possibly.

But I think the thing really being debated is change. And that makes it a very different argument, because when you are talking big change on the large scale, change is disruptive, chaotic, destructive, and sometimes violent, which is much harder to justify.

I can get on with that. Allowing for a melding of spirits and magic within the very essence of the world. I just wish there was a different way to achieve it.

But as for Thedas, If they cannot see that even if there was no Solas, Thedas would still be chaotic, disruptive and violent. Mages, when hard pressed, tend to turn into monsters and go on killing rampages. Even if it wasn't of their choosing, or maybe it was. Templars so afraid of those monsters mages become that it skews their look out of it. Cullen for example was terrified and hated mages all at once. Why? He was trapped in a sphere of torturous magic that nearly destroyed his mind. And at that time he was nothing like the other hardned templars and was in fact in love with a mage... It turned him icy and cold. As it should have. I don't support the majority of templars out there but I can unbiasedly understand their fear and wish there could be a way both could coexist without killing everyone inbetween them IE innocents. Then you got Qunari...... Not much can be said there. They are steadfast in their violent answers to everything. Magesterium.... Theres a lot of potential evils there. Then the off shoot evils gangs, smugglers, mercs. No matter where you go or how you look at it.. Thedas is doomed. Someone will destroy that place. It WILL happen.

[Nimlowyn]

I do, actually... well, in theory. I'd support a Thedas with magic and spirits present, and a non Veil world possibly.

But I think the thing really being debated is change. And that makes it a very different argument, because when you are talking big change on the large scale, change is disruptive, chaotic, destructive, and sometimes violent, which is much harder to justify.

That's a good point. I think we'll find in subsequent games just how much undue suffering the Veil causes, for mortals and spirits alike.

[Sah291]

I can get on with that. Allowing for a melding of spirits and magic within the very essence of the world. I just wish there was a different way to achieve it.
But as for Thedas, If they cannot see that even if there was no Solas, Thedas would still be chaotic, disruptive and violent. Mages, when hard pressed, tend to turn into monsters and go on killing rampages. Even if it wasn't of their choosing, or maybe it was. Templars so afraid of those monsters mages become that it skews their look out of it. Cullen for example was terrified and hated mages all at once. Why? He was trapped in a sphere of torturous magic that nearly destroyed his mind. And at that time he was nothing like the other hardned templars and was in fact in love with a mage... It turned him icy and cold. As it should have. I don't support the majority of templars out there but I can unbiasedly understand their fear and wish there could be a way both could coexist without killing everyone inbetween them IE innocents. Then you got Qunari...... Not much can be said there. They are steadfast in their violent answers to everything. Magesterium.... Theres a lot of potential evils there. Then the off shoot evils gangs, smugglers, mercs. No matter where you go or how you look at it.. Thedas is doomed. Someone will destroy that place. It WILL happen.

Well unfortunately what I think makes the Veil situation different, is that it is something that effects all of Thedas, so there is little room for compromise. It's either got to be up or down, and it can't just be partially there in some places only (as far as we know) for those who want it. It doesn't seem to work that way. The breach just kept spreading.

It's not a debate over a form of government or type of economy or religion, or one of the myriad other things people fight wars over.

Maybe it could be compared to climate change/global warming? There are some alternative arguments that say people should be studying how to adapt to the changing climate, rather than just putting in all effort into prevention (considering that preventing it might not be entirely possible). I'm not saying I endorse one or the other view, just that it makes an interesting parallel.

[Macha'Anu]

Well unfortunately what I think makes the Veil situation different, is that it is something that effects all of Thedas, so there is little room for compromise. It's either got to be up or down, and it can't just be partially there in some places only (as far as we know) for those who want it. It doesn't seem to work that way. The breach just kept spreading.

It's not a debate over a form of government or type of economy or religion, or one of the myriad other things people fight wars over.

Maybe it could be compared to climate change/global warming? There are some alternative arguments that say people should be studying how to adapt to the changing climate, rather than just putting in all effort into prevention (considering that preventing it might not be entirely possible). I'm not saying I endorse one or the other view, just that it makes an interesting parallel.

I can totally understand that. 100%

[midnight tea]

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is a vastly different generation of fantasy from Dragon Age - I wouldn't compare the two.  You might as well go a full extreme and head straight to Oz and Wonderland.  Vast categories of fantasy do no consider world building to be a concern. While others, like A Song of Ice and Fire take a much more practical approach to their fantasy elements.  While I find the fantasy elements of a ASoIaF the worst parts... I applaud him for approaching a new age of fantasy responsibly - taking into account the style in which he is writing. 

 

Dragon Age approaches world being from a more realistic standpoint - a newer trend in an evolving genre (not entirely true, sword and sorcery tends toward more "realism" in fantasy.  Howard's Hyborea was a vastly complex socio-political network and his magic was rich and detailed without being bogged down in the mire of "explanation")

 

Note:  Animals dream in the real world.  When writing - those things different from the real world should be explained or it is safe to assume they are no different.  For all we know - wisps happily copy animal dreams before advancing to sapient creatures.

 

The irony here is that you are discrediting an example that is entirely realistic, both in terms of logic and in terms of comparisons to our world - creating artificial conditions that disturbs the "natural order" to a point of threatening to create either an imbalance or irreversible changes on a wide scale.

 

Like... you realize that we ourselves - in our non-magical world - live in times or artificial global warming that, well, does just that? In fact, according to many scientists we are going through extinction level event that is moving FASTER than K-T event (you know, the one that wiped away most dinosaurs). 

 

Also - "realism" in fantasy doesn't mean "this world is a copy of ours with a tiny bit of magic sprinkled through". It's not even that for most sci-fi, where there are many types of inventions or powers that aren't remotely realistic - they're simply explained in logical, 'sciency' way. So basically, it means that the world follows consistent rules that are not lifted with no rhyme and reason, or for the sake of the plot - and it is entirely realistic and logically consistent (and scientifically correct) for the world where there's an additional force we don't have to be different. Or evolve differently. Or look similar outwardly, but differ in one way or another. And we do know that living creatures in Thedas *do* differ from ours. They have spirits. Their blood has inherent magical properties. Their biological structure can be altered by magic. Heck, some creatures can shapeshift - some can gain a body without going through all the pesky process of being born. Some can apparently just... get rid of their self-imposed mortality (spirit!Cole). And, of course, there are creatures and beings who can entirely halt their biological needs and basically sustain themselves on the Fade, as well as sentient beings who have no biological body.

 

That headcanon criticism goes both ways... anyone making claims about ancient Thedas is completely wrong.  One ancient elf's testimony would convince only the weakest minds prone to fanaticism and blind following. 

 

Riiiight... only that's not the only ancient elf we heard testimonies from (Felassan, Flemythal, Abelas...), nor one who current evidence (like entirety of Trespasser) goes against. And I mean... lol - nobody is making any definite claims about times we still need more information on... Well, maybe with exception of you and some other people on some occasion.

[Navee]

I love his character because he is mysterious, but also very interesting and intelligent. He has a very complexe personality, due to his life and the choices he made. And I don't know why, but that makes me love him more. He seems broken, not evil. That makes him lovable I think. He is not perfect, just a very complexe character!

(also quite handsome in his own style  )

[German Soldier]

I take natural state to be original state, the way the world was when it was born, before it was fundamentally changed via artificial construct. In this case, the Veil as implemented by Solas. Artificial in this sense assumes that any change initiated by a sentient species, not nature, is not natural, and hence, artificial.

So, natural state can be defined as original state.

 

Original state,the way the world was born?

 are you referring to the primordial state when planets are in formation?If that's what you mean by original then it's not very life friendly.

What you define as natural is just the world in which the elves used to live that is not original state..

[Nimlowyn]

Original state,the way the world was born?
are you referring to the primordial state when planets are in formation?If that's what you mean by original then it's not very life friendly.
What you define as natural is just the world in which the elves used to live that is not original state..

I would mean immediately after planet formation, if we are thinking of it that way. The first life sustaining state.

I am assuming a veil-less world is this original state, based on what we know at this time.