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[In Exile]

@Medhia_Nox:
The main reason why the old world holds attraction for me is this: I believe in empowering the individual, even at the price of having to deal with something like Corypheus now and then, and a side effect of Solas' plans is that everyone will acquire some magic.

In fact, it was exactly because of this that I've been entertaining - and posting about - the idea that the Veil coming down might become a topic long before DAI came out, and I think the several thematic aspects of this idea would've all been better served had it not been combined with world-wide genocide. A discussion of the merits and flaws of such a world might've been interesting, but now everyone who so much as hints at having interest in a Veil-less world must contend with siding with world-wide genocide, and we have no rational choice but to work against those plans. I find this regrettable.

OT excursion:

Spoiler

As for humanity on Earth, we prove ourselves by the only evolutionary relevant outcome: survival. I may doubt our ability to do that now and then, but the plain fact is that if we survive, then we've also proven we can rise over some of our most detestable flaws. About which I like have a different position than you.

BTW, in one thing I agree unreservedly with you: I don't want Flemeth gone. She is a great and interesting character with an unparalleled presence. No other character will be able to fill the hole if she leaves.

The old world Solas tells us doesn't empower the "individual". It makes it possible for a few powerful individuals to dominate the rest. That's not really empowering or empowerment, especially as not everyone would even start with the same chance to be an immortal god king or queen.

Corypheus isn't the downside of personal power. The Evanuris are - immortal leaders whose grip on power was so absolute the concept of removing them from rulership was just impossible without fundamentally reworking the rules of reality.

[Xerrai]

@Xerrai:  No, I just believe Solas is a Pride demon in elf form... but at any rate, I went and watched it on YouTube and changed my post.

Ah, alright. That makes sense. I just detected a higher-than-usual amount of sassiness from that and I assumed something set you off.

 

At the very best spirits should be left alone to dwell peacefully in the Fade.  Interaction with them is irresponsible at best.  

 

 But on the topic of leaving them to the fade, do you think that is possible given how both the worlds (Fade and Real World) have an interest in the other?

 

Mages in particular are by naturally prone to investigating whatever is in the fade and ways to understand/control it. It is natural after all, for them to try and gain knowledge from being that are quite literally are magic.

And what of the practices of the Avvar, Rivaini and Chasind who often encourage spirit-ly interaction? Leaving spirits in the fade would be the rough equivalent of ditching a part of their culture. Or at least majorly reform it.

 

On the other side of the spectrum we have demons/spirits who want to interact with the Real World because they want to be a part of it. Or at least get closer to it. And from what we can tell, them wanting to come to the Real World is in part driven by their need to better personify themselves as per their nature. Some of them just can't seem to help themselves because they feel so removed from the world (the memories, feelings, and etc. that they apparently want more of) that they have to get closer so they can experience them.

[Medhia_Nox]

To begin with, it's important to note that for Solas, the last time he "saw" his world was (in his perception) a few years ago before he woke up. He's not exactly stuck in the past - he's more like a being catapulted into the future.

Beyond that, it's not the past he cares about per se. It's the world. He wants to return the nature of the world to what it was before he wrecked it. It's not unlike In Hushed Whispers. It's hard for him to even see this world as legitimate, because apart from actually creating it, he's never lived in it. That's part of his struggle in seeing the world as "real".

If he's right - removing the veil changes the nature of the world - then he's saving the old world. People project too much on Solas. He's established he's not in it for the ancient elves as a culture even as he wants to save those that remain. He just wants to restore the part of the world he stole away.

He doesn't think it will put the world back together, exactly. He just thinks that the former world is the one that should exist.

 

And why should I care what he thinks?  I'm being serious.  What about Solas says:  "I alone have the knowledge to decide the fate of millions of people?"

[Medhia_Nox]

Ah, alright. That makes sense. I just detected a higher-than-usual amount of sassiness from that and I assumed something set you off.

 

 

 But on the topic of leaving them to the fade, do you think that is possible given how both the worlds (Fade and Real World) have an interest in the other?

 

Mages in particular are by naturally prone to investigating whatever is in the fade and ways to understand/control it. It is natural after all, for them to try and gain knowledge from being that are quite literally are magic.

And what of the practices of the Avvar, Rivaini and Chasind who often encourage spirit-ly interaction? Leaving spirits in the fade would be the rough equivalent of ditching a part of their culture. Or at least majorly reform it.

 

On the other side of the spectrum we have demons/spirits who want to interact with the Real World because they want to be a part of it. Or at least get closer to it. And from what we can tell, them wanting to come to the Real World is in part driven by their need to better personify themselves as per their nature. Some of them just can't seem to help themselves because they feel so removed from the world (the memories, feelings, and etc. that they apparently want more of) that they have to get closer so they can experience them.

 

It isn't so much a matter of "forbidding" it.  

 

I'll take it from how I perceive I would react if I were a mage on Thedas.  

 

1)  Dreams.  As a mage, I am told I'm either totally conscious or at least semi-conscious in my dreams.  These dreams will be performed by spirits who will observe my memories and then act them out.  

This is an amazing form of self-reflection - but only IF you stick with observation alone.  These spirits are capable of innocently knowing what your mind/heart truly yearns/thinks and can reflect it.  Interacting on a conscious level will pervert any possible gain from reflection at these moments. 

 

2) Entering the Fade physically.  I'd probably never do it.  The Fade is an infinite space of others people's perceptions about the world.  Anything recognizable is just the reflection of some thought in history.  Worse yet, it's some polluted thought from a semi-sentient being that has collected a series of thoughts form its immortal existence in the Fade.  

 

It's like a dumping ground for human thought... also known as: The Internet.

 

Sure, is the internet useful?  Yeah, it is... because it has a Search Engine to wade through the bullshit.  But - look at Wikipedia.  That's not real knowledge.  Or, at least not knowledge you shouldn't corroborate somewhere else.  

 

So, I'd largely see wading through the junkyard of dead minds somewhat useless... but, if I were to enter it, I would do so only as an observe.  Again... the historical aspect I'd find interesting.  Spirits reinacting their own versions of wars, political debates (one would even expect a spirit version of porn by "romance" spirits and "desire" demons).  

 

3)  Interacing with a spirit on Thedas.  

 

I would be mostly hostile to it.  I consider the Avvar to be largely reckless and backwards and are only safe from spirits by serving spirits.  

 

Let's take an interaction with a wisdom spirit.  If I encountered one, and bound it, I don't see any reason why it would not understand the wisdom in my caution.  It would, if they're all like Cole, know that I am merely wary of it and have no intents of otherwise abusing it.  I could, perhaps, be curious enough to converse with it - but never so much as to be friends with it.

 

Spirits are delicate... and it has as much to do with me perverting it, as it does with it possessing me.  It would be a great disservice to the spirit to pervert it.

 

And yet, I seem to see only people who want to use spirits... use them for knowledge, use them for wisdom, use them for information.  The Avvar certainly do.  The Seers of Rivain do.  And not a few people on this forum certainly do.  

 

4)  Concerning the unification of the Fade and Thedas.

 

I do not have enough information.  Now, at least, I know what happened when the Veil was torn open a little... and it was terrible.  Thedas suffered... and the Fade suffered. 

 

Solas has intimated that only his special middle realm of ancient elven hubris was destroyed.

 

I have no reason to believe that anything negative happened to the Fade... or to Thedas by creating the Veil.

 

In fact, I believe I can extrapolate many positive things that happened to Thedas.  Yes, the elves collapsed because they ran out of their natural resources - and then, they were crushed by the Tevinter.  Does Solas know that history suggests the elves didn't just up and die in a massive calamity but that they were weakened and then conquered? 

I hate to break it to the elf - but that's how it happens.  

 

But humans migrated.  Life became easier for Qunari, Humans and Dwarves... aren't we all about utilitarianism on these forums (only when it suits for some forumites it would seem)

 

I don't believe Solas - so I can't use his words as testimony.  Yes, a great deal of it may be truthful... but it's also clouded under his misperceptions and ulterior motives. 

 

I can only go on what I've experienced of the two interacting (Fade and Thedas)... and it has been utterly negative.  

[In Exile]

And why should I care what he thinks?  I'm being serious.  What about Solas says:  "I alone have the knowledge to decide the fate of millions of people?"

 

? I'm not saying you should care what he thinks. I'm confused. I thought we were debating how it could be possible for both the DA4 protagonist/Inquisitor and Solas to be "protagonists" - or as close to it as one gets in media?

[midnight tea]

Yeah but empowering in context of removing the veil is just that : getting more powerful magical being who are immortals.
Removing the veil isn't making anyone more intelligent , with more willpower , confidence , opportunity.
 

 

I'm sorry, but it's just like you didn't read my comment at all. 

 

Didn't you notice when I said: "And access to magic definitely doesn't just mean raw strength or power - mages don't just throw fireballs. There's an entire magical dimension locked behind the Veil that offers knowledge, insight, improved self-awareness and guidance, or help from powerful spirits, not just Wisdom, or Purpose, but also spirits like Compassion, that help people in their times of need."

 

... Or are you just conveniently ignoring that?

 

 

Except magic overall mean raw strength , and a few confort like healing, and mind control .

Yeah the "Library", I believe there is still libraries in Thedas nowadays.

That knowledge , insight , guidance is not Magic , it's people who wrote that , mundane can do that as well.

 

No it does not - magic in world Thedas means interacting with Spirits and "making things real"... it's literally a force that in large part relies on willpower, so how it can represent raw strength?

 

And sorry, it's like you'd be saying "well, it's not Internet that wrote all these books and ideas - so what that in 30 years of its global existence it almost transformed the world thanks to it giving people power to access vast knowledge and useful computing programs that make everything easier from nearly anywhere in the world!"

 

And Fade is so much more than that. It's a realm inhabited by sentient beings and yes - many of those beings have stored, recreated or enriched the knowledge of people. We know this - we have clear examples of this in the game. Frikking spirit of Compassion is even one of our companions, and you want to tell me that he just parrots things people say or something? He has his own insights and frequently helps to enrich lives of others, or at the very least heal small hurts that prevent them from moving on. You think this isn't useful? And empowering, not in sense of raw strength?

 

We have no magic IRL , and miracle!We've got a better elven library called internet!

 

... And Thedas has natural Internet with living sentient inhabitants and you just dismiss that?

Also - what does it matter what we have or don't have IRL? Thedas may be similar to Earth, but it's NOT earth. We don't have a full realm that is essential for human begins to form consciousness and feel emotions. And we know very well what happens if we cut people from the Fade - they become Tranquil! We don't have that IRL.

 

 

We didn't even blow up the whole world to get it, no we waited generation after generation for knowledge to accumulate and technology to get better and it happened!

 

Dude!  We had two WORLD WARS and one of them had a very real chance of almost wiping us all to even get where we are today!

Add to that the fact that - again, Thedas is not Earth. If people lost Internet and electricity for some reason, you think some of us wouldn't try to regain it back, even at the cost of destroying or fundamentally changing the world that would come after our era???

 

And another thing - people on Thedas don't appear to be working to regain their connection or attitude to Fade; in fact from the look of things it seems they're determined to stamp magic out!

 

 

And the avaar still uses spirits in current Thedas , and they didn't rip open the veil and killed everyone too , oh my!

 

 

And you think that this in any way resembles the extent ad usage of magic and spirits in Elvenhan? Well then why aren't Avvars - or heck, even Tevinter - as powerful as Elvenhan ever was? Why don't Avvars tell us how the world was before? Why aren't they immortal? Why isn't every Avvar in existence an expert magic user to whom magic is as natural as breathing???

 

Sorry, but in scenario where we've lost all our civilization and can't use electricity you'd be one who'd point on a small electricity generator that is barely able to power a few street lamps and say "look, it's exactly the same as it was before!"

 

 

No they just ruled for thousand and thousand of years , enslave a whole empire .And yes were finally released from duty.It just required changing the nature of the world , and changing the nature of the elves with lots of people dying during the catastrophe.

Newflash:Solas thinks he made a terrible mistake and the price for booting the old generation was too damn high!

 

So you actually agree with me that Solas is actually the bringer of the new, huh?

 

Also - newsflash: if Solas didn't do anything, it's highly possible that the Evanuris would destroy the whole world. What do you prefer then - a world in which people can survive and perhaps rebound or possible absolute destruction? In that scenario the "too high price" is worth paying to prevent total annihilation.

 

It's not because you don't like the way thing evolved , things didn't evolved.

The Chantry outlaws slavery , the Chantry made sure something like an Evanuris could never happen again.

The Chantry didn't cause an almost cosmic catastrophe when in power.

 

Lol, so if things didn't evole you agree that Chantry indeed represents old thinking?

Also - it's not the Chantry that outlaws slavery (don't forget that Tevinter has Chantry as well) - on South it was Andraste. And nothing like that could probably be accomplished if Soals didn't stop Evanuris first. So again, you got it all backwards.

 

Also - the Chantry may have not caused, but you think that its approach to magic didn't have a pretty catastrophic effect on things, or at the very least severe repercussions? Plus, HUMANS certainly did almost blown the world to smithereens, and that's only because they wanted to show how powerful they were! What do you think trip to the Golden City did other than make the world die slow, agonizing death from incoming Blights???

 

Breach = Solas , Cory.

The Chantry that terrible backward institution is also willing to make compromise towards the mages at the end of DAI .

 

At the end of DAI? ... Did you actually play DAI? Because I'm pretty sure that at the end of DAI how mages are treated largely depends on Inquisition.

 

The Chantry is also willing to let people and nation police themselves.

The Evanuris were Gods and rulers of the Empire.Religious figures and head of the empire.

The Evanuris also had religious propaganda , some type of shapeshifting were reserved to the Gods.

Wants to turn into a dragon , well nope you're a sinner and you will be judged.

There's never ever been any mage utopia , magic and its practise has always been regulated.

 

Who have ever said anything about mage utopia??? Add to that the fact that Solas does NOT want Elvenhan to return - don't forget that it was him who destroyed it and if you listen to banter with Dorian he says that it was no better than Tevinter in its time. No, he wants the "world of the elves" (with Fade as part of the world and all people having their connection to it restored) to return, not elvenhan or Evanuis. Again, you got it all backwards.

[Medhia_Nox]

? I'm not saying you should care what he thinks. I'm confused. I thought we were debating how it could be possible for both the DA4 protagonist/Inquisitor and Solas to be "protagonists" - or as close to it as one gets in media?

Well, by protagonist do we mean "good guy"? 
 

Cause he's certainly the "protagonist" of the Solas perspective.

 

To probably any character I play that deals with him... he will be an antagonist though.  Or rather, I will be his antagonist? 

 

I do get his perspective... it's his conclusion I take such issue with.

[Reznore57]

I'm sorry, but it's just like you didn't read my comment at all. 
 
Didn't you notice when I said: "And access to magic definitely doesn't just mean raw strength or power - mages don't just throw fireballs. There's an entire magical dimension locked behind the Veil that offers knowledge, insight, improved self-awareness and guidance, or help from powerful spirits, not just Wisdom, or Purpose, but also spirits like Compassion, that help people in their times of need."
 
... Or are you just conveniently ignoring that?

Have you noticed the library is still there with the veil and you can go read books?
Removing the veil will not restore knowledge destroyed , nor raised the dead ancient elves.
People will have to gather some new knowlegde and go write new book , but yeah I'll grant you the Crossroad is magic.
It's cool I'm totally on board to kill everyone so knowledge is more easily accessible.
Worth it.
Oh and spirits?You can still interact with them with the veil.And spirits are not the only one willing to help and offer wisdom and compassion, people can do that too just fine.
But you're right after Solas has destroyed the world , and made everyone suffer , some powerful spirits will come handy to ease that pain.
 

And sorry, it's like you'd be saying "well, it's not Internet that wrote all these books and ideas - so what that in 30 years of its global existence it almost transformed the world thanks to it giving people power to access vast knowledge and useful computing programs that make everything easier from nearly anywhere in the world!"

Well yes it did.And you know what , if we loose internet and someone says we should kill everyone to get it back , I'd call him a madman.
 
 

And Fade is so much more than that. It's a realm inhabited by sentient beings and yes - many of those beings have stored, recreated or enriched the knowledge of people. We know this - we have clear examples of this in the game. Frikking spirit of Compassion is even one of our companions, and you want to tell me that he just parrots things people say or something? He has his own insights and frequently helps to enrich lives of others, or at the very least heal small hurts that prevent them from moving on. You think this isn't useful? And empowering, not in sense of raw strength?

And the fade still exist even with the veil?
Cole is here with the veil.
But like I said , yeah killing everyone so spirit can frolick among the dead is 100% worth it.
 
 

... And Thedas has natural Internet with living sentient inhabitants and you just dismiss that?
Also - what does it matter what we have or don't have IRL? Thedas may be similar to Earth, but it's NOT earth. We don't have a full realm that is essential for human begins to form consciousness and feel emotions. And we know very well what happens if we cut people from the Fade - they become Tranquil! We don't have that IRL.

I was comparing the library to Internet because easy sharing of knowledge and all that ...and we got there with time.So why people of Thedas wouldn't go there with time?And not with a bloody apocalyspe for the impatient.
 
 

Dude!  We had two WORLD WARS and one of them had a very real chance of almost wiping us all to even get where we are today![/spoiler]
Yeah , we didn't blow the whole place up and destroyed ourselves.We've made mistake , got scared , and now we play nice.(well for now)
But sure it's the same as Solas who prevented super powerful mages from killing everyone and now he learned his lesson because he's on a crusade to kill..oh wait , no.

Add to that the fact that - again, Thedas is not Earth. If people lost Internet and electricity for some reason, you think some of us wouldn't try to regain it back, even at the cost of destroying or fundamentally changing the world that would come after our era???[/spoiler]
Yeah I think if we lost internet and electricity and someone told me he's going to kill everyone to get this back...I'll call him insane.
 

And another thing - people on Thedas don't appear to be working to regain their connection or attitude to Fade; in fact from the look of things it seems they're determined to stamp magic out!

And what if it's their choice?


 

And you think that this in any way resembles the extent ad usage of magic and spirits in Elvenhan? Well then why aren't Avvars - or heck, even Tevinter - as powerful as Elvenhan ever was? Why don't Avvars tell us how the world was before? Why aren't they immortal? Why isn't every Avvar in existence an expert magic user to whom magic is as natural as breathing???

Err...I was just pointing out Avaar still had a relationship with spirits...and yeah they exchange ancient knowledge and stuff...like the spirits showing the invisible keys to a forgotten Ones lair.
Have you ever ask the Avaar what do they know of the world before?
They aren't immortals because they aren't ancient elves?
Ancient elves weren't immortals because they had spirits around?
Ancient elves weren't magical because spirits too?
The avvaar are probably going to be dead and gone , their culture destroyed when Solas destroy the veil.
But well hopefully a spirit will get some of their knowledge , so it won't really matter isn't it?

 
 

So you actually agree with me that Solas is actually the bringer of the new, huh?
 
Also - newsflash: if Solas didn't do anything, it's highly possible that the Evanuris would destroy the whole world. What do you prefer then - a world in which people can survive and perhaps rebound or possible absolute destruction? In that scenario the "too high price" is worth paying to prevent total annihilation.

Re read what you just wrote and think deep please.
Remember Solas now wants to annihilate the current world.
So what are you willing to do to stop him?

Also - the Chantry may have not caused, but you think that its approach to magic didn't have a pretty catastrophic effect on things, or at the very least severe repercussions? Plus, HUMANS certainly did almost blown the world to smithereens, and that's only because they wanted to show how powerful they were! What do you think trip to the Golden City did other than make the world die slow, agonizing death from incoming Blights???

The Chantry didn't even existed during the time of Corypheus?
And yeah let's all remember the Tevinter empirium stole everything from the ancient elves and try to mimick them and the Chantry is a reaction to that.

[Reznore57]

At the end of DAI? ... Did you actually play DAI? Because I'm pretty sure that at the end of DAI how mages are treated largely depends on Inquisition.

Depends on the Divine.The Chantry.
That's why Fiona is whining in Skyhold the fate of the rebellion is now in the future Divine hand.

Who have ever said anything about mage utopia??? Add to that the fact that Solas does NOT want Elvenhan to return - don't forget that it was him who destroyed it and if you listen to banter with Dorian he says that it was no better than Tevinter in its time. No, he wants the "world of the elves" (with Fade as part of the world and all people having their connection to it restored) to return, not elvenhan or Evanuis. Again, you got it all backwards.

Yeah well I can't compare that paradise Solas is dreaming of with no Evanuris and magic for everyone , well the immortal elf because all the rest will be dead , because well...it actually doesn't exist.
So Yeah I compared it to the society that actually existed when there was no veil , and not some pipe dream.

Edit: Last quote war for me.Mulitple quotes are a pain in the rear.

[In Exile]

Well, by protagonist do we mean "good guy"? 
 

Cause he's certainly the "protagonist" of the Solas perspective.

 

To probably any character I play that deals with him... he will be an antagonist though.  Or rather, I will be his antagonist? 

 

I do get his perspective... it's his conclusion I take such issue with.

 

I don't, though I think he could also arguably be the hero - as much as renegade Shepard could be one, in any case. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@In Exile:  Well, I have some opinions about Renegade Shepard, but I will say that he's far more like the Reapers.

 

He is force making everyone decide how to deal with him. 

 

Shepard was a reaction to a force (the Reapers) - Renegade Shepard was just one way to react to that force.  Nobody had to react to Shepard on a macro level.

 

All PCs are reactions to forces that cause choice - that is pretty much what a protagonist is.

 

Protagonists don't cause the story - they move the story forward through change.  It's not "that" simple of course... a protagonist could cause a story by... say, moving to a new town... but even then, it is his reaction to that new town and how it changes him that creates the story.

 

So, I suppose... if we played Solas we would be:  "An ancient elf in a new time..." and our reactions would put us into the role of protagonist... but, right now I do not believe he is at all a protagonist.  And honestly - I would hate playing Solas.

 

Unfortunately - I think to appease the player base - his character has been diluted into an unintelligible mess.  All characters can be argued over - but I feel that Solas got too messy and personally I blame the romance and the hoops they jumped through to include it.

[Xerrai]

 

Unfortunately - I think to appease the player base - his character has been diluted into an unintelligible mess.  All characters can be argued over - but I feel that Solas got too messy and personally I blame the romance and the hoops they jumped through to include it.

Pretty sure it was just Weekes who jumped through hoops. Apparently he was really passionate about it. Originally it wasn't going to be included at all, but since it was an elf-only romance, and thus only required one set of cut scenes, voices, etc. they decided it was small enough to add in at the last minuet.

 

(Source here, though its credibility is can be called to debate)

 

But we DO know that out of all of the characters in the game, Solas  was one of the ones who went through the most changes. He used to be a one-dimensional elf liar who only talked about elves, now he's....what he is now. What you call "diluted into an unintelligible mess". What Weekes calls a character with "hidden depths".

[BansheeOwnage]

 

At the end of DAI? ... Did you actually play DAI? Because I'm pretty sure that at the end of DAI how mages are treated largely depends on Inquisition.

Good post, but I feel compelled to say that regardless of what the Inquisition does, the epilogues concerning mages and templars are largely the same after Trespasser.

[Dai Grepher]

I myself do not like Solas that much. He was just okay during the main game. I knew his basic plan since Witch Hunt, though I couldn't put a face with the plan. Considering everything, I would have to say that he is foolish, ignorant, and arrogant. His moral compass is broken, and I think he is mainly a hypocrite.

He has some cool points though. I liked his interaction with Viddasala, and his no-look petrification of her. He's also pretty helpful during a few quests. He is well-stated, and he is relevant to most of the game's plots.

So overall he's an okay character.

My main Inquisitor, a human male rift mage, appreciated his insight even if he didn't always agree with it. And he considers him a friend even now.

My female elven necromancer, when I play her for real, will probably try a romance with him simply because he is an elf who is more knowledgeable than most. But once she sees how mixed up he is, she will probably be perfectly fine breaking up with him. And after finding out who he really is, she will want to stop him by killing him.

[Lady Artifice]

He's eloquent. Absolutely beautifully spoken, to the point where he actually uses iambic pentameter sometimes. That's much of the appeal right there.

 

He's smooth af when you get past the hoity-toity bit.

 

I admit, I thought the hoity toity bit was a big part of the smooth af package.  

[Medhia_Nox]

Pretty sure it was just Weekes who jumped through hoops. Apparently he was really passionate about it. Originally it wasn't going to be included at all, but since it was an elf-only romance, and thus only required one set of cut scenes, voices, etc. they decided it was small enough to add in at the last minuet.

 

(Source here, though its credibility is can be called to debate)

 

But we DO know that out of all of the characters in the game, Solas  was one of the ones who went through the most changes. He used to be a one-dimensional elf liar who only talked about elves, now he's....what he is now. What you call "diluted into an unintelligible mess". What Weekes calls a character with "hidden depths".

 

And mine is just "another opinion" - but, as his (Mr. Weekes) audience, I can say that this is how I feel about Solas.

 

I read The Masked Empire - and I know the man can write.  Celene, Briala, Gaspard, Michele... I feel they are all consistent characters that still have "hidden depths" (to varying degrees) - but I feel that you can say certain things about them:  "Celene is always playing the The Game."  "Gaspard is more honorable than he is not." (honor, does not mean good)  etc.

 

I do not feel Solas is consistent with how people that display some of his traits would act.  I get ALL of the liar and manipulator (which was clearly intended to be there) and none of this noble creature that a great many others clearly do.  I do not think that's "depth" - I think anyone should be able to understand what you're trying to say about a character even if they do not agree with those things.

 

NOTE: I do not believe any of this can be attributed to all his unknowable traits like "god" "uber-mage" "3000 years old" etc.

 

I'll use Morrigan as an example... she is consistent and I can predict what she may do with "some" accuracy.  I do NOT agree with her at all.  I do not agree that survival is the ultimate goal.  However, I can tell that she is somewhat defined by it.  Even in Inquisition when she has clearly evolved - we see that she remains concerned with the things I would define Morrigan with:  "acquisition of knowledge as a means to power (as opposed to wisdom)" "acquisition of magic as a means to power" and "survival". 

 

Keiran gives her some complexity - I don't know what a non-Kieran Morrigan is like... but I'm told she is mostly unchanged in personality from before. 

 

With Morrigan - we argue her attributes.  With Solas - we argue what his action "mean" - what his thoughts "mean" - what his personality "means".  I don't think that's good writing.  Again... opinion.

[Dai Grepher]

I do not feel Solas is consistent with how people that display some of his traits would act.  I get ALL of the liar and manipulator (which was clearly intended to be there) and none of this noble creature that a great many others clearly do.  I do not think that's "depth" - I think anyone should be able to understand what you're trying to say about a character even if they do not agree with those things.

I think that just makes him a hypocrite. In the game he hates it when mages turn his friend wisdom from its purpose even though it was done to save their lives. He will even kill them for it if you don't stop him. Yet he twists the Librarians in the Vir Dirthara from their purpose in order to kill the Qunari in horrific ways, even if it means you have to end up fighting them as well.
 

Keiran gives her some complexity - I don't know what a non-Kieran Morrigan is like... but I'm told she is mostly unchanged in personality from before.

She is somewhat the same as in Witch Hunt. She cares about others, knowing what will come. But I would say she cares more in Inquisition. Other than that, mostly the same.

[Xerrai]

And mine is just "another opinion" - but, as his (Mr. Weekes) audience, I can say that this is how I feel about Solas.

 

I read The Masked Empire - and I know the man can write.  Celene, Briala, Gaspard, Michele... I feel they are all consistent characters that still have "hidden depths" (to varying degrees) - but I feel that you can say certain things about them:  "Celene is always playing the The Game."  "Gaspard is more honorable than he is not." (honor, does not mean good)  etc.

 

I do not feel Solas is consistent with how people that display some of his traits would act.  I get ALL of the liar and manipulator (which was clearly intended to be there) and none of this noble creature that a great many others clearly do.  I do not think that's "depth" - I think anyone should be able to understand what you're trying to say about a character even if they do not agree with those things.

 

NOTE: I do not believe any of this can be attributed to all his unknowable traits like "god" "uber-mage" "3000 years old" etc.

 

I'll use Morrigan as an example... she is consistent and I can predict what she may do with "some" accuracy.  I do NOT agree with her at all.  I do not agree that survival is the ultimate goal.  However, I can tell that she is somewhat defined by it.  Even in Inquisition when she has clearly evolved - we see that she remains concerned with the things I would define Morrigan with:  "acquisition of knowledge as a means to power (as opposed to wisdom)" "acquisition of magic as a means to power" and "survival". 

 

Keiran gives her some complexity - I don't know what a non-Kieran Morrigan is like... but I'm told she is mostly unchanged in personality from before. 

 

With Morrigan - we argue her attributes.  With Solas - we argue what his action "mean" - what his thoughts "mean" - what his personality "means".  I don't think that's good writing.  Again... opinion.

I know its your opinion. It's a perfectly legitimate one too, though one I cannot relate too that much (but that's why we're both here).

 

But as to the rest of your post. So....because you can't predict/read him, he's an unintelligible mess in terms of character?

 

(Not trying to be degrading/rude towards you, btw, but that's honestly what i'm getting from that post)

[Xerrai]

I think that just makes him a hypocrite. In the game he hates it when mages turn his friend wisdom from its purpose even though it was done to save their lives. He will even kill them for it if you don't stop him. Yet he twists the Librarians in the Vir Dirthara from their purpose in order to kill the Qunari in horrific ways, even if it means you have to end up fighting them as well.

Solas was only confirmed to have awoken the librarians, not that he corrupted them. They could have been corrupted after the fall of the veil before they went dormant, or alternatively, were corrupted once they woke up by the drastic change in the world. Or by the fear the qunari have towards the knowledge in the Vir Dirthara.

[LadyofClockwork7]

Solas represents something mystical, intriguing, powerful, and sexy to me. 

[...]

Besides...he has sexy lips and nice eyes.

 

Pretty much this. He's intelligent, powerful, mysterious and yes, very sexy. 

 

There's really no great mystery as to why people like/love/are attracted to Solas, tbh.

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm surprised that so many people consider Solas sexy. Granted, I don't know anything about what makes a man attractive, but still, I didn't think he was what people would call conventionally attractive. Or maybe he's not, but lots of people like him anyway?

[dawnstone]

I'm surprised that so many people consider Solas sexy. Granted, I don't know anything about what makes a man attractive, but still, I didn't think he was what people would call conventionally attractive. Or maybe he's not, but lots of people like him anyway?

If he had hair, I pretty much guarantee we would not be having this conversation, and the Solavellan fandom would be a 1000x more unbearable to those that dislike him and them.

http://nipuni.tumblr...teaching-myself

[Addictress]

You know how much I love Solas

Today I was kicked out of my parents' house. I'm an adult in my late twenties and was a full-time professional up to three months ago when I cut my job to take care of my sick mom. So I feel like a teenager again. My dad screamed, saying he was killing himself, acted violently, and I called the police. They didn't do anything since there wasn't any evidence. Then my dad kicked me out. If I don't study full-time for the next 9 months for my cpa license, my career will dry up as I become older and the industry becomes automated. This year is the last year I am qualified to get the license. So I'm kind of obligated to be homeless for 2016. No one is forcing me to be homeless, but the amount of material left and what I know of my brain....I have to focus full-time or else. My friend is letting me stay over for a limited time. But then I'll be in my car, taking showers in a gym and studying at a library or Starbucks all day, hoping I don't fail the exams and waste my 9-month window. My car is set up. I got coats and blankets so I don't freeze.

I sat in my car looking out at a waning street lamp and I thought about Solas. What it means to be so attracted to a character who doesn't exist, who is the center of a fandom of people I don't know; but I have so much fun reading their posts and comments every day. I feel connected. It's daddy issues, maybe. But it's funny how I am so comforted by looking all the silly threads and lustful comments, sometimes beautiful and sometimes crazy fan art. They put a smile on my face. I appreciate all of it on a deep level I won't ever be able to express. Thank you BSN.

[Addictress]

I just chose a random thread to vent personal crap. I'm sorry I offend your eyes.

But seriously.



Carry on. It's for the internet archives.

[dawnstone]

You know how much I love Solas

Today I was kicked out of my parents' house. I'm an adult in my late twenties and was a full-time professional up to three months ago when I cut my job to take care of my sick mom. So I feel like a teenager again. My dad screamed, saying he was killing himself, acted violently, and I called the police. They didn't do anything since there wasn't any evidence. Then my dad kicked me out. If I don't study full-time for the next 9 months for my cpa license, my career will dry up as I become older and the industry becomes automated. This year is the last year I am qualified to get the license. So I'm kind of obligated to be homeless for 2016. No one is forcing me to be homeless, but the amount of material left and what I know of my brain....I have to focus full-time or else. My friend is letting me stay over for a limited time. But then I'll be in my car, taking showers in a gym and studying at a library or Starbucks all day, hoping I don't fail the exams and waste my 9-month window. My car is set up. I got coats and blankets so I don't freeze.

I sat in my car looking out at a waning street lamp and I thought about Solas. What it means to be so attracted to a character who doesn't exist, who is the center of a fandom of people I don't know; but I have so much fun reading their posts and comments every day. I feel connected. It's daddy issues, maybe. But it's funny how I am so comforted by looking all the silly threads and lustful comments, sometimes beautiful and sometimes crazy fan art. They put a smile on my face. I appreciate all of it on a deep level I won't ever be able to express. Thank you BSN.

I'm sorry to hear your family life has been so crazy, and that you've been forced out of your home. Stay safe, and good luck with your cpa!