4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Ignoring the whole "genocide the planet" thing - he's the perfect guy. 

[Seraphim24]

Oh, you don't have to be a sociopath to kill anyone. Or any number of people. But now you've proved you have no evidence he's a sociopath. Thanks. 

 

I just gave it to you, if you can't read that's your own problem, should get that checked out.

[Almostfaceman]

I just gave it to you, if you can't read that's your own problem, should get that checked out.

 

I've read you not providing any evidence he's a sociopath. 

 

Shephard kills over 300,000 people in the Arrival DLC. He's not a sociopath. 

 

Thanks again for putting your ignorance on display.

[Seraphim24]

I've read you not providing any evidence he's a sociopath. 

 

Shephard kills over 300,000 people in the Arrival DLC. He's not a sociopath. 

 

Thanks again for putting your ignorance on display.

 

"He wants to genocide every other person" That's a sign of sociopathy, a lack of empathy, it's not that complicated.

[Almostfaceman]

"He wants to genocide every other person" That's a sign of sociopathy, a lack of empathy, it's not that complicated.

 

Again, you don't have to be a sociopath to kill people. You have to provide evidence of his sociopathic personality. You don't have the evidence. 

[Seraphim24]

Again, you don't have to be a sociopath to kill people. You have to provide evidence of his sociopathic personality. You don't have the evidence. 

 

You are getting it backwards, he wants to kill people, for literally no reason than that he just hates everyone and probably has no self-esteem, you are making a logical inversion.

 

It's, sociopathy is not necessary to kill people, sure, but.

 

Wanting to kill every other person is sufficient to be a sociopath

[Almostfaceman]

You are getting it backwards, he wants to kill people, you are making a logical inversion.

 

It's, sociopathy is not necessary to kill people, sure, but.

 

Wanting to kill every other person is sufficient to be a sociopath

 

No, it's not. In fact, you can be a sociopath and not kill anyone at all. So again, provide evidence that he's a sociopath. 

[Seraphim24]

No, it's not. In fact, you can be a sociopath and not kill anyone at all. So again, provide evidence that he's a sociopath. 

 

Would it even matter? If he's a sociopath but he doesn't kill anyone, what's the problem? He might even get married to someone who can tolerate him, redeem him, whatever, have kids... perhaps...

 

I'll be frankly speaking, I don't think a sociopathic personality is a problem per se, but you seem eager to disprove that anyway, but like I say, does it matter?

 

Some people don't understand people, don't like people much, people don't much like them, that alone doesn't make them a bad person.

[Almostfaceman]

Would it even matter? If he's a sociopath but he doesn't kill anyone, what's the problem? He might even get married to someone who can tolerate him, redeem him, whatever, have kids... perhaps...

 

I'm not sure what you're dithering about for, you should be busy looking for evidence that he's a sociopath. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wanting to kill every other person is sufficient to be a sociopath

Not really. There have been quite a few dictators in human history who have shown and even acted on genocidal mindsets without being sociopaths. Solas' whole plan can be seen as a sign of empathy for the remaining ancient elves by wanting to restore the world he took from them. Now Solas depicts sociopathic tendencies yes but not enough to be labeled an actual sociopath. 

[Seraphim24]

I'm not sure what you're dithering about for, you should be busy looking for evidence that he's a sociopath. 

 

Why? I'm going to turn the tables on you, what's wrong with being a sociopath exactly? Lots of people don't have lots of empathy, natively, some more, some less... some very little, so?

 

As I say, the problem isn't that, inherently, it's what they do and how they interact with socieity, people with low emotional intelligence are problematic because they drain socieities resources and otherwise a burden, it's not that they can't be helped or shouldn't be helped but unchecked they make life more difficult for people.

[Macha'Anu]

I hope your friend is right! I would love to see that. I would also love to have the help of Solas

It is a pretty awesome theory yes? In theory all fenHarel has ever wanted to do is free the people he seen being oppressed. My friend and I always wondered if this is a last stich effort of some sort of mass betrayal, failure after failure. It's doing a number on him. He wants to help and doesn't know what else to do. Everything he has tried since awakening has failed. And flemeth always always was 2 steps ahead and always vague on goings on. I'd like to see her be some loving entity as she once was. But it's been a mellinia and she has to just be bitterly angry at many events. She was willing, in some world states to take a young boy from his mother.. I want to think she's motherly and loving but her words in the Fade trouble me. 

We also discussed the idea that fenharel, and flemeth and others locked the old gods or titans or whatevs, in the deep roads and if the surfaces addiction to lyrium unraveled that prison. There is a mass ton we haven't learned yet but the bits and peices I have learned... templars and mages and even Solas or the Evanuris could be the least of our worries. 

PS. Don't feed the troll toll guys. We're having a really decent discussion let's not allow it to be muddied 

[Seraphim24]

Not really. There have been quite a few dictators in human history who have shown and even acted on genocidal mindsets without being sociopaths. Solas' whole plan can be seen as a sign of empathy for the remaining ancient elves by wanting to restore the world he took from them. Now Solas depicts sociopathic tendencies yes but not enough to be labeled an actual sociopath. 

 

I think that's a rather artificial boundary there.

[Almostfaceman]

Why? I'm going to turn the tables on you, what's wrong with being a sociopath exactly? Lots of people don't have lots of empathy, natively, some more, some less... some very little, so?

 

You're the one who went to the trouble to label his personality, now you have to back up the claim. Come back with some evidence or just admit you were wrong. 

[Seraphim24]

You're the one who went to the trouble to label his personality, now you have to back up the claim. Come back with some evidence or just admit you were wrong. 

 

Yeah I labeled his personality as a sociopath, then you instructed me on distinctions between serial killers, sociopaths, and people in between.

 

So now I'm like well whatever, he has literally very little empathy and is sociopathic ok well that's a problem for all kinds of reasons, particularly in positions of power or running society, but perhaps it can be remedied, primarily by ensuring they have kind of a space away from important positions or are influential with money/society because really it's society that strains to support these people, not the other way around. 

 

Anyway, what more do you want anyway?

[Almostfaceman]

Yeah I labeled his personality as a sociopath, then you instructed me on distinctions between serial killers, sociopaths, and people in between.

 

So now I'm like well whatever, he has literally very little empathy and is sociopathic ok well that's a problem for all kinds of reasons, particularly in positions of power or running society, but perhaps it can be remedied, what more do you want anyway?

 

You can't provide evidence he has very little empathy or that he's a sociopath. Got it. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think that's a rather artificial boundary there.

No, it's just like with pretty much everything else about the human mind there isn't just set boxes but more a gradient. So the exact opposite of an artificial boundary. 

[Seraphim24]

You can't provide evidence he has very little empathy or that he's a sociopath. Got it. 

 

I honestly don't think you are reading or capable of understanding what I'm saying but I'll just make this clear in faceman like ways

 

 

 

Spoiler

KILLING PEOPLE SOLEY BECAUSE YOU HATE THEM IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GET THE DEATH PENALTY AND OTHERWISE BE EXTERMINATED FROM SOCIEITY

 

 

 

WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE OFR THEIR RACE OR WHATEVER IS BAD AND YOU HAVE LOW EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE IF YOU EXPERIENCE A LOT OF VIOLENT THOUGHTS

 

RACISM IS BAD

 

 

 

But! If you can manage your problems and not act on them then you are managing and living and that's ok..... not great.. but you know. So I mean, maybe that's Solas I don't know, maybe not, it looks like they are aiming for the redemption angle though, which is fine.

[Almostfaceman]

*snip the silliness*

 

 

 

His plan, as we know it, is bad. Of course. If you'd read this thread, like I've suggested to you on more than one occasion, you'd notice we've already covered that ground. But his bad plan doesn't make him a serial killer or sociopath. Now that we have established that you were wrong with that assertion we can move on from a more accurate assessment of his character. 

[Abyss108]

You are getting it backwards, he wants to kill people, for literally no reason than that he just hates everyone and probably has no self-esteem, you are making a logical inversion.

 

 

 

He doesn't hate everyone.   Now you're just making things up. 

 

He likes most people, and gains approval when you help random strangers, and cares about them.

 

He is doing what he is doing because for some currently unknown reason he doesn't think there is any other option for the world.

 

Also, he has massive self esteem, that's his number one weakness. His name is literally "pride".

[midnight tea]

He doesn't hate everyone.   Now you're just making things up. 

 

He likes most people, and gains approval when you help random strangers, and cares about them.

 

He is doing what he is doing because for some currently unknown reason he doesn't think there is any other option for the world.

 

Also, he has massive self esteem, that's his number one weakness. His name is literally "pride".

 

While I agree with almost everything I would indeed say that he indeed has self-esteem problems. At one point or another he can even (indirectly) tell Inquisitor that all he has left are his mistakes and pretty obviously thinks of most things he's accomplished as a massive failure, even if necessary at a time. In that regard he's no different from Cassandra or Leliana who take way too large chunk of responsibility for not saving Divine or Varric or Hawke who feel guilty for releasing Corypheus/finding Red Lyrium. We can see that it gnaws at them to a point that they lose a terrible lot of their self-esteem.

 

In fact Leliana - whose arc, I'm convinced at this point, mirrors the path of Solas to significant degree - can only be turned into "Marjolane" if she *doesn't* shake her guilt and grief and doesn't regain some confidence in herself, and merely gets assured that following the path of ruthlessness is one that will ensure the path towards greater good. And if we steer her towards embracing mercy and compassion, she tells us that "she almost lost herself", while Cullen notices that after Valence she's more confident, aside form being less scary.

 

Therefore, ironically, the problem for Pride (aside from his massive trust issues after some severe betrayal/s) might be either lack of it, or accepting merely pejorative connotations that come with the sentiment (pride per se isn't bad).

 

Heck, spirit!Cole at the end of Trespasser even tells Inky that he will go back to the Fade, because "someone is hurting. He needs me to remember who he is."

[Abyss108]

While I agree with almost everything I would indeed say that he indeed has self-esteem problems. At one point or another he can even (indirectly) tell Inquisitor that all he has left are his mistakes and pretty obviously thinks of most things he's accomplished as a massive failure, even if necessary at a time. In that regard he's no different from Cassandra or Leliana who take way too large chunk of responsibility for not saving Divine or Varric or Hawke who feel guilty for releasing Corypheus/finding Red Lyrium. We can see that it gnaws at them to a point that they lose a terrible lot of their self-esteem.

 

In fact Leliana - whose arc, I'm convinced at this point, mirrors the path of Solas to significant degree - can only be turned into "Marjolane" if she *doesn't* shake her guilt and grief and doesn't regain some confidence in herself, and merely gets assured that following the path of ruthlessness is one that will ensure the path towards greater good. And if we steer her towards embracing mercy and compassion, she tells us that "she almost lost herself", while Cullen notices that after Valence she's more confident, aside form being less scary.

 

Therefore, ironically, the problem for Pride (aside from his massive trust issues after some severe betrayal/s) might be either lack of it, or accepting merely pejorative connotations that come with the sentiment (pride per se isn't bad).

 

Heck, spirit!Cole at the end of Trespasser even tells Inky that he will go back to the Fade, because "someone is hurting. He needs me to remember who he is."

 

 

What line are you referring to, I don't remember that? (Unless you mean in future redcliffe, but I would agree he has issues there after watching the world burn because of himself).

 

I can kinda see your point, he seems like a strange mix of both to me. He's confidant enough in himself to go ahead with his plan without telling anyone what it is, he's confidant enough in his self to leave the Inquisitor alive when they want to stop them with just a shrug and "You'll try". 

 

Having said that, I don't think Leiliana has self-esteem issues either. I don't think that's at all related to "losing yourself".

[German Soldier]

 

 

In other words... how can the Fade ever be separate from the world, when it's intrinsically connected to it even in the Veiled one?

 

 

The fade is separated from the world otherwise Corypheus wouldn't had to pierce the veil to reach it with the other magisters.

Within the fade there are also physical buildings invisible for those outside of it.

[Heimdall]

I honestly don't think you are reading or capable of understanding what I'm saying but I'll just make this clear in faceman like ways

Spoiler

KILLING PEOPLE SOLEY BECAUSE YOU HATE THEM IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GET THE DEATH PENALTY AND OTHERWISE BE EXTERMINATED FROM SOCIEITY



WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE OFR THEIR RACE OR WHATEVER IS BAD AND YOU HAVE LOW EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE IF YOU EXPERIENCE A LOT OF VIOLENT THOUGHTS

RACISM IS BAD



But! If you can manage your problems and not act on them then you are managing and living and that's ok..... not great.. but you know. So I mean, maybe that's Solas I don't know, maybe not, it looks like they are aiming for the redemption angle though, which is fine.

Good thing he isn't doing those things then. From the way he spoke in Trespasser, destroying the known world (he never mentions destroying specific peoples or races) is more a byproduct (And an undesirable one) of what he seeks to do.

[Lulupab]

I honestly don't think you are reading or capable of understanding what I'm saying but I'll just make this clear in faceman like ways

 

 

 

Spoiler

KILLING PEOPLE SOLEY BECAUSE YOU HATE THEM IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY GET THE DEATH PENALTY AND OTHERWISE BE EXTERMINATED FROM SOCIEITY

 

 

 

WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE OFR THEIR RACE OR WHATEVER IS BAD AND YOU HAVE LOW EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE IF YOU EXPERIENCE A LOT OF VIOLENT THOUGHTS

 

RACISM IS BAD

 

 

 

But! If you can manage your problems and not act on them then you are managing and living and that's ok..... not great.. but you know. So I mean, maybe that's Solas I don't know, maybe not, it looks like they are aiming for the redemption angle though, which is fine.

 

Solas is not killing them because he hates them, in fact he is rather sad that they have to die so that his people can live. Because it will require removing the veil and killing those who are going to oppose him.

 

Play the game again.