4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

How is he divorced from everything else going on in the world? Also not being cheeky. 

 

I'm pretty much the opposite in tastes with regards to this game. Its modern setting was a bit boring and only got more interesting the more I got to play fantasy Indiana Jones. I also like history in general, it's shaped where we are today. The ancient elven history has had a rather profound effect on modern Thedas, to put it lightly. 

Just like Almostfaceman, I don't find him divorced from anything at all. Dragon Age has always been hinting about the big lore revelations, and they all tie into modern Thedas. Everything seems like a logical progression so far.

 

I'm interested in Modern Thedas, but you can't understand the "current" world without understanding the past. It's all the same thing to me. The current state of the Elves all tie back to Solas, the current state of mages/templars goes back to all these abuses thousands of years ago. Modern Thedas didn't just spring out of nowhere, it was all due to these major happens in the past.

I'm not trying to deny that. But ultimately, the issue I have with is that Solas has no direct connection to any of the places, cultures, or conflicts in Thedas and, what is worse, he is not even invested in them. After all, even if he might feel mightly annoyed if the Qunari conquer everything, his irritation is bound to fade away once he's destroyed the world as everyone knows it.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

There was so much Elgar'nan in Vir Dirthara that I do wonder how big of a role he will play in the future. Of course, it can always be someone we don't know yet either. I was convinced Sandal's prophecy was about Corypheus...lol. 

It made sense at the time, but I think it makes much more sense to be about Solas and his plan. The prophecy talked about "the magic coming back, all of it", which certainly didn't happen because of the Breach.

 

 

I'm sorry but I just see Solas as a stand-in for virtually all these elites in like every aspect of society, teachers, professors, police, military, bankers, investment people, all the capitalist control mechanisms, predominantly in America, and they are virtually nothing, they are filth, they are trash, the only value they can ever have is by submission to some kind of extreme concept of discipline from a tolerant enough significant other, whereby they live literally like Jesus or something in the hills with no influence over society whatsoever, but instead? We have the exact opposite.

Wait, teachers are considered "the elite" now?

 

 

Not sure what you wish to imply with it that buildings within the fade are shaped by belief?

The black city isn't an illusion created by belief and is right at the center of the fade for everyone regardless of what they believe.

The Black City seems to be the only constant in the fade, but yes, all the rest is shaped by will, belief, and perception. That's why it's said (either in banter or codex) that the fade probably wouldn't have floating rocks if dwarves dreamt, since they live in a world where stone is anchored.

 

Oh, while we're on this topic, there is something else that fuels the idea that the fade is another physical dimension (at least with the veil in place). The water in the fade that you pass during HLtA is directly posited to have come from the rift in Crestwood's lake. I'm pretty sure the water didn't go through a change in perception to enter the fade, so...

 

QFT.

And if we're dobbing people into Biomom, may I remind you all its against forum rules to bring real life political issues into these discussions.

Pots and kettles

For what it's worth, I think that's a dumb rule, at least in general. I understand the reasoning, but comparing games to real life things only makes sense when fiction mirrors reality, and more importantly, offers commentary on real things. We should be able to use reality as context for comparisons and the like.

 

Obviously this reveal won't be for a very long time, but I just really want to know how, or if, the Inquisitor is going to be involved in the next game. I can mentally prepare myself for disappointment, or just start on the path of acceptance, but as long as we don't know anything there is a small (very small) glimmer of hope I'd prefer not to have, but won't go away until we have some sort of announcement, whatever that is.

I couldn't agree more!

[Sah291]

What I find most interested about Thedas is not the high magic, ancient gods stuff, but modern Thedas. I think that's one of the biggest reasons why I find Solas uninteresting and his "twist" makes me cringe.

Which leads me to wonder, are his fans alright with how divorced he is from everything else going on in the world? This is a genuine question of mine; I'm not trying to be cheeky.

Well I'm a big fan of the sort of DA2 style political drama, and was disappointed they didn't continue that. At first I thought DAI had too much open world/exploration and not enough plot. But, DAI got me into the lore, and I really enjoyed learning all about the ancient elves and history of Thedas. So yeah I'm on board.

[Abyss108]

I'm not trying to deny that. But ultimately, the issue I have with is that Solas has no direct connection to any of the places, cultures, or conflicts in Thedas and, what is worse, he is not even invested in them. After all, even if he might feel mightly annoyed if the Qunari conquer everything, his irritation is bound to fade away once he's destroyed the world as everyone knows it.

 

He's the God of one of the majors religions introduced in the very first game, and mentioned in every game since then. I''d say that's a direct connection - he pretty much caused that entire culture, and has numerous conversations throughout the game discussing his connection/lack of connection to this culture he caused. He provided a lot of insight into my Dalish Elf's views/people because of those conversations - more than I got in any other part of the game before Trespasser. One of my favourite things about Solas is that he actually provided an opportunity to discuss and learn more about the modern Dalish Elves. He's also related to the ancient Elves you meet later in the game, so that's 2 cultures he's related too. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Not who you quoted but... Every single Dragon Age character I have apart from the Inquisitor is dead. I went through Trespasser utterly convinced my Inquisitor was going to die too. I'm utterly convinced she will die in DA4. 

 

Dragon Age is the one RPG series I've played where what you've said isn't true.

Have you played Mass Effect? Heh. Heh. I also thought Quizzy would die in Trespasser. It was quite stressful to play because of that.

[German Soldier]

Just like Almostfaceman, I don't find him divorced from anything at all. Dragon Age has always been hinting about the big lore revelations, and they all tie into modern Thedas. Everything seems like a logical progression so far.

 

I'm interested in Modern Thedas, but you can't understand the "current" world without understanding the past. It's all the same thing to me. The current state of the Elves all tie back to Solas, the current state of mages/templars goes back to all these abuses thousands of years ago. Modern Thedas didn't just spring out of nowhere, it was all due to these major happens in the past.

From what i understood the intial question was on about why players are interested into a more magical setting like Solas is rather than the current setting,that the modern is the product of history wasn't in question.

 

[Abyss108]

Have you played Mass Effect? Heh. Heh. I also thought Quizzy would die in Trespasser. It was quite stressful to play because of that.

 

 

That particular ending has been purged from my mind. 

 

I don't think I've ever had a more stressful 7 hours of gaming than Trespasser though. I was utterly convinced my Lavellan was going to end up dead by the end - it didn't help my mood after I picked that one "I don't want to die" dialogue option. I was all "Damnit, you have shown no sense of self preservation for the entire game, please please please gain one now and try to live" and clicked on it - Alix has this absolutely heartbreaking line which is something to the effect of "I don't want to die before I finish this", but theres this gap in the line before she says the "before I finish this" part. She only adds that in after seeing everyone look at her with this slightly freaked out expression where they have no idea how to react to the poor terrified girl and it seems like she only added that last part in to make it look like she wasn't freaking out quite as bad because no one else knew how to comfort her, and just ugh.   And then hearing her falling and screaming in pain for the last hour... And Dorian's goodbye to her before they go into the Eluvian the last time... and.. and... I'm ok, I'll stop now...

[Abyss108]

 

From what i understood the intial question was on about why players are interested into a more magical setting like Solas is rather than the current setting,that the modern is the product of history wasn't in question.

 

 

 

I don't think that's necessarily related - it's not like the people who like Solas want to see his plan happen, pretty much everyone agrees that would be bad with the current information we have. And if it did happen, I'm sure we would get to see how the modern world adapts to that more magical setting (if they were going to go ahead and actually change the setting like that, I'm 100% it wouldn't just be "and now all the modern cultures are dead" because that would just be a massive waste).

 

Personally I'd be interested in seeing more of the modern setting as it is, but I'd also be interested in seeing those modern cultures react to such a thing as the Veil being destroyed if Bioware decided to go that way - I'm interested in seeing the world change and adapt, that's inherently more interesting to me that seeing things stagnate - I don't like how the Mage/Templar conflict has been resolved because it doesn't seem like anything has really changed. I want to see the world grow, in whatever direction Bioware decides to take it.

[Mike3207]

i'm on ps3 and will never know his ultimate goal is to destroy the world-well unless/until I get a ps4.

 

So far in my playthrough, he doesn't seem like that bad a guy.

[midnight tea]

What I find most interested about Thedas is not the high magic, ancient gods stuff, but modern Thedas. I think that's one of the biggest reasons why I find Solas uninteresting and his "twist" makes me cringe.

 

Which leads me to wonder, are his fans alright with how divorced he is from everything else going on in the world? This is a genuine question of mine; I'm not trying to be cheeky.

 

... Divorced ? His Veil has CREATED modern Thedas. So how is it "divorced" from anything? He's one of the main reasons things are the way they are. He's the pivotal character of the entire DA franchise. He and his deeds are so connected to the world, you can't really discuss lore or the setting without him in the picture.

[German Soldier]

 

Personally I'd be interested in seeing more of the modern setting as it is, but I'd also be interested in seeing those modern cultures react to such a thing as the Veil being destroyed if Bioware decided to go that way - I'm interested in seeing the world change and adapt, that's inherently more interesting to me that seeing things stagnate - I don't like how the Mage/Templar conflict has been resolved because it doesn't seem like anything has really changed. I want to see the world grow, in whatever direction Bioware decides to take it.

The "stagnation" of the modern Thedas is not attributable to a lack in terms of world variety but is a byproduct   of design choices  which forced all the events to be displayed solely in Southern Thedas  where in many cases events,cultures and places were not properly fleshed out

 

I'm not that interested into seeing this twist in whom Solas seem to be invested because I actually  think is not needed to flesh out Thedas from a narrative perspective.

[midnight tea]

 

The "stagnation" of the modern Thedas is not attributable to a lack in terms of world variety but is a byproduct   of design choices  which forced all the events to be displayed solely in Southern Thedas  where in many cases events,cultures and places were not properly fleshed out

 

I'm not that interested into seeing this twist in whom Solas seem to be invested because I actually  think is not needed to flesh out Thedas from a narrative perspective.

 

This has nothing to do with design choices. Like... since when featuring cities in game is somehow supposed to determine the world stagnates or not? It's taking all into account - the cities, the villages, the remote areas, people and, of course, politics and socio-economic situation to determine the shape of the world. And from what we know the shape of the world ain't great. In fact its weakness is the reason why Corypheus has arisen in the first time, and the situation outside South doesn't paint itself any better - Tevinter is decaying, Nevarra is in turmoil, free Marches fight between one another and above everything looms the threat of either the Qunari invasion, Blight or yet another ancient threat nobody knows about,

[German Soldier]

... Divorced ? His Veil has CREATED modern Thedas. So how is it "divorced" from anything? He's one of the main reasons things are the way they are. He's the pivotal character of the entire DA franchise. He and his deeds are so connected to the world, you can't really discuss lore or the setting without him in the picture.

From what i understood "Divorced" in the sense that he is not invested in the modern world nor he was part of it's  evolution.

He raised the veil then went to sleep until the Dragon age.

[Abyss108]

 

The "stagnation" of the modern Thedas is not attributable to a lack in terms of world variety but is a byproduct   of design choices  which forced all the events to be displayed solely in Southern Thedas  where in many cases events,cultures and places were not properly fleshed out

 

I'm not that interested into seeing this twist in whom Solas seem to be invested because I actually  think is not needed to flesh out Thedas from a narrative perspective.

 

 

But I don't feel as if the current cultures/places are not fleshed out, I feel the opposite. I think the current situation has been fleshed out, and that was great, but now I want to see what comes next.

 

I'd be interested in going to different places/cultures in Thedas, but I get to explore new settings/cultures in every single fantasy game I buy/book I read/etc. I obviously like it, since I keep doing it, but what I've never seen in a game before, is an established universe fundamentally change and established cultures have to adapt and grow to it. I've never seen it before, I don't see any other potential examples of it coming up - so if given the choice, I'd like the explore the option I won't get in any other games.

 

From an in-universe/in-character perspective it would obviously be terrible, but there's a small "meta" part of me that would find that really interesting to get to play through.

 

It probably won't happen anyway.  There are obvious reasons I haven't seen it in other series.

[German Soldier]

This has nothing to do with design choices. Like... since when featuring cities in game is somehow supposed to determine the world stagnates or not? It's taking all into account - the cities, the villages, the remote areas, people and, of course, politics and socio-economic situation to determine the shape of the world. And from what we know the shape of the world ain't great. In fact its weakness is the reason why Corypheus has arisen in the first time, and the situation outside South doesn't paint itself any better - Tevinter is decaying, Nevarra is in turmoil, free Marches fight between one another and above everything looms the threat of either the Qunari invasion, Blight or yet another ancient threat nobody knows about,

The way in which the world is fleshed out is strictly bound by the implementation of its exposure within the game through design choices.

The way in which cities and villages are exposed to the audience  by the developers influence the perception that players have about the DA world,for example a better  Val royeaux or more villages would have helped to fleshed out better Orlais.

 

In short i don't see the presentation  as to be  unrelated to stagnation

 

Corypheus the manipulator or the issues of the modern Thedas have nothing to do with the argument i was trying to expose,for all i know ancient

Thedas had even worse problems.

[midnight tea]

 

The way in which the world is fleshed out is strictly bound by the implementation of its exposure within the game through design choices.

The way in which cities and villages are exposed to the audience  by the developers influence the perception that players have about the DA world,for example a better  Val royeaux or more villages would have helped to fleshed out better Orlais.

In short i don't see these things as to be unrelated..

 

Corypheus the manipulator has nothing to do with the argument i was trying to expose.

 

This is silly. We're not playing Sim City - we're playing vast universe with tons of information scattered around not just via visual side and amount of cities and settlements, but entire zones, NPCs, dialogues, lorebooks, quests and so on.

 

And complain all you like about Val Royeaux, but it was NOT our only way to see Orlais. I mean, where do you think Emerald Graves or Exalted Plains or Emrpise du Lion (or Western Approach/Hissing Wastes on that matter) are? What culture we were 100% surrounded with in Halamshiral? And we have numerous interactions with Orlesians all across the game!

[German Soldier]

But I don't feel as if the current cultures/places are not fleshed out, I feel the opposite. I think the current situation has been fleshed out, and that was great, but now I want to see what comes next.

 

 

They told us very little about the wardens,the pirates,the intrigues in Antiva or about the imperial chantry as it is for now i think the modern world isn't  exposed yet.

 

This is silly. We're not playing Sim City - we're playing vast universe with tons of information scattered around not just via visual side and amount of cities and settlements, but entire zones, NPCs, dialogues, lorebooks, quests and so on.

 

And complain all you like about Val Royeaux, but it was NOT our only way to see Orlais. I mean, where do you think Emerald Graves or Exalted Plains or Emrpise du Lion (or Western Approach/Hissing Wastes on that matter) are? What culture we were 100% surrounded with in Halamshiral? And we have numerous interactions with Orlesians all across the game?

I'm not sure what playing in big landscapes and zones have to do with the non-necessity to fully build modern Thedas via substantial side quests and more villages and cities.Like did you realized that most of the places you mentioned are empty zones?

No wonder why this Thedas felt stagnant but this staticness have nothing to do with the world itself rather with how it was presented.

[Aren]

 

 

I'm not sure what playing in big landscapes and zones have to do with the non-necessity to fully build modern Thedas via substantial side quests and more villages and cities.Like did you realized that most of the places you mentioned are empty zones?

No wonder why this Thedas felt stagnant but this staticness have nothing to do with the world itself rather with how it was presented.

This is actually one of the main criticism against the game,the fact that there is a large variety  of locations  isn't' all that relevant if those zones aren't properly filled with contents that can enrich the world,of course  then it seem stagnant for a lot of players.

[midnight tea]

I'm not sure what playing in big landscapes and zones have to do with the non-necessity to fully build modern Thedas via substantial side quests and more villages and cities.Like did you realized that most of the places you mentioned are empty zones?

No wonder why this Thedas felt stagnant but this staticness have nothing to do with the world itself rather with how it was presented.

 

They're obviously empty zones for those who pay no attention whatsoever to what happens in the game   In Emprise you have a mining town to save and a massive RL mine and Red Templar factory to shut. In Emerald Graves there's an entire zone to clear from Freemen and peasants to re-settle. In Exalted Plains you have decimated landscape and armies to rescue from onslaught of demons and zombies. All of those zones and quests tells us something about the world and situation of citizens among it, aside from being tied to Inquisition bringing order and advancing their position in the South, or discovering traces of ancient past, ruins, new locations and whole slew of additional quests and war-table missions to show us the reach of Inquisition and involvement of it in Thedas' issues and affairs.

 

Seriously, the whole "build modern Thedas by showing us more cities" is nothing more than an empty argument - all those places, 'empty' or no, are ALSO modern Thedas. That you see people abandoned by authorities (like peasants in Emprise or Graves), or landscapes worn down by pointless civil war and haunted by demons and robbers ALSO tell us something about the state of the world.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

They told us very little about the wardens,the pirates,the intrigues in Antiva or about the imperial chantry as it is for now i think the modern world isn't  exposed yet.

 

Sometime I it feel like we have more info about the ancient world than info about the rest of modern Thedas.

[German Soldier]

They're obviously empty zones for those who pay no attention whatsoever to what happens in the game   In Emprise you have a mining town to save and a massive RL mine and Red Templar factory to shut. In Emerald Graves there's an entire zone to clear from Freemen and peasants to re-settle. In Exalted Plains you have decimated landscape and armies to rescue from onslaught of demons and zombies. All of those zones and quests tells us something about the world and situation of citizens among it, aside from being tied to Inquisition bringing order and advancing their position in the South, or discovering traces of ancient past, ruins, new locations and whole slew of additional quests and war-table missions to show us the reach of Inquisition and involvement of it in Thedas' issues and affairs.

 

Seriously, the whole "build modern Thedas by showing us more cities" is nothing more than an empty argument - all those places, 'empty' or no, are ALSO modern Thedas. That you see people abandoned by authorities (like peasants in Emprise or Graves), or landscapes worn down by pointless civil war and haunted by demons and robbers ALSO tell us something about the state of the world.

Whooa so now all players that perceived those zones as empty are just blind people  who do not pay attention is that it?

 

Since when clear zones is the same as interacting with the world via meaningful side quests or by visiting environments of social interactions like villages and cities? You define it as an empty argument while it couldn't be that empty judging by the numbers of threads it generated in the feedback section.

 

edit

This whole diatribe is related to the very first premise i made:

 

Modern Thedas isn't stagnant is the way in which it was presented that make it seem to be.

[midnight tea]

 

Whooa so now all players that perceived those zones as empty are just blind people  who do not pay attention is that it?

 

Clearly. Because even if the zones don't have a content YOU want, or think should be there, nobody in their right mind would say that they're empty. Heck, there's so much stuff to do in Hinterlands alone that the phrase "get out of Hinterlands" basically became a meme.

 

 

Since when clear zones is the same as interacting with the world via meaningful side quests or by visiting environments of social interactions like villages and cities? You define it as an empty argument while it couldn't be that empty judging by the numbers of threads it generated in the feedback section.

 

... but you "clear the zones" via quests that include visiting environments that have social interactions among other content and your home base is basically one giant social interaction   Plus, the more quests you do and the more people you help, the more the zone become re-populated again.

[German Soldier]

 

Clearly. Because even if the zones don't have a content YOU want, or think should be there, nobody in their right mind would say that they're empty. Heck, there's so much stuff to do in Hinterlands alone that the phrase "get out of Hinterlands" basically became a meme.

 

There's so much to do in the Hinterlands?Those fetch quests who don't have any substances?

According to this  reasoning all those players are wrong because these fetch quests are at least something instead of the total nothing?

Get out of the Hinterlands isn't a positive meme it's just describe how boring the zone is and how is not worth to be explored.

 

 

 

 

... but you "clear the zones" via quests that include visiting environments that have social interactions among other content and your home base is basically one giant social interaction   Plus, the more quests you do and the more people you help, the more the zone become re-populated again.

 

I clear the zones which are full of endless mobs that will eventually respawn more numerous than before  via fetch quests  and then engage in  meaningful social interactions with some npc who stand there more static than a tree and provide most of the time  non engaging conversations.

 

[Macha'Anu]

It made sense at the time, but I think it makes much more sense to be about Solas and his plan. The prophecy talked about "the magic coming back, all of it", which certainly didn't happen because of the Breach.

 

Wait, teachers are considered "the elite" now?

 

The Black City seems to be the only constant in the fade, but yes, all the rest is shaped by will, belief, and perception. That's why it's said (either in banter or codex) that the fade probably wouldn't have floating rocks if dwarves dreamt, since they live in a world where stone is anchored.

 

Oh, while we're on this topic, there is something else that fuels the idea that the fade is another physical dimension (at least with the veil in place). The water in the fade that you pass during HLtA is directly posited to have come from the rift in Crestwood's lake. I'm pretty sure the water didn't go through a change in perception to enter the fade, so...

 

For what it's worth, I think that's a dumb rule, at least in general. I understand the reasoning, but comparing games to real life things only makes sense when fiction mirrors reality, and more importantly, offers commentary on real things. We should be able to use reality as context for comparisons and the like.

 

I couldn't agree more!

comparing is one thing, going off on tinfoil tangents is another. its annoying and silly

[Lunatica]

They're obviously empty zones for those who pay no attention whatsoever to what happens in the game  

Saying that people should have been paying attention, completely ignores that devs can get away with this kind of stuff 99% of the time, and nothing is ever said.  Don't put it on the players. If there was any consistency on this, then it would be a valid argument, As it stands, its not.