4635 réponses à ce sujet

[dawnstone]

For those confused about whether there was a Veil before Solas made it, since this seems to keep coming up:

 

http://gatecrashing-...st/145729806384

[midnight tea]

 

Solas is talking about old gods and disliked the context of killing them with demon army when they are not even archdemons yet.

He never said killing Archdemon is bad.

Archdemon are not old gods they are their corrupted version thus they are not one and the same.

 

Errr, you've just repeated what Lady Artifice said...

 

Still - obviously there's still something in Archdemons that is apparently worth saving. Flemeth risked everything to do exactly that after all, via Morrigan and her Dark Ritual. And in OGB Kieran world state, she tells us that he is also carrying a piece of what once was, snatched away from darkness. 

 

So their soul and power can be snatched... provided of course a Grey Warden doesn't swoops in and annihilates it, as it is apparent they do when their soul melds with Archdemon's. So yeah, Solas can still have a problem with killing Archdemons by Wardens, given that we actually see that their destruction isn't necessary, and - who knows - may even be detrimental to the world in the long run.

[Lunatica]

Huh... that's like saying that he has no right whatsoever to worry abut the Breach because he didn't tell anyone that Corypheus has created it with his Orb.

 

He's a hypocrite. He claims the wardens trying to prempt the blight is foolish and could make things worse, but this is the same guy who gave a darkspawn with a god complex a power boost and somehow thought it would benefit Thedas. 

[Aren]

Errr, you've just repeated what Lady Artifice said...

 

 

Which mean that we are not  in disagreement.

 

Why you relate the knowledge of the ritual to Solas is also beyond me,how can he possibly know on how to snatch archdemon souls given that those things did not even existed in the pre veil world?

[Voidinist]

 

I don't really care at all about Solas' reasoning. I have no doubt that it has something to do with his whole trickster god alter ego, but since he gives objections with no alternate solutions, he can stuff it.

 

Aside from using  demons seems to me that the principle behind the plan is a good one. I for one would wholeheartedly support the eradication of the Old Gods, unless someone can devise a plan to remove the darkspawn threat entirely, thereby making such a plan unnecessary.

 

 

By no means do I support Solas on 90% of the things he whines about, but we've already seen what will happen by removing darkspawn from the Old Gods' call in Awakening. They'll simply flood the surface because they have no reason to be in the deep roads otherwise. Really, the Grey Wardens as a whole should have come to this conclusion by now but they apparently ignore any revelations about the blight and just keep flinging themselves at it as they were instead.

 

He has no right to complain since neither he nor any other organization is fighting the blight/darkspawn, though. He whines about every organization without offering any insight or suggestions as to how we could accomplish his abstract ideals. What is Thedas supposed to do about the darkspawn occasionally pouring out of holes? What exactly is Thedas supposed to do when an archdemon rises? A diplomatic approach? He's completely detached from the reality he's woken up to.

[German Soldier]

For those confused about whether there was a Veil before Solas made it, since this seems to keep coming up:

 

http://gatecrashing-...st/145729806384

Beautiful image

At this point then i don't understand what the other codex meant when it say elves need training to venture in the fade when they wanted to find powerful spirits

[Nimlowyn]

 

Beautiful image

At this point then i don't understand what the other codex meant when it say elves need training to venture in the fade.

 

I think of it like swimming. There is no real barrier to the ocean, we can all walk in. But if we don't know how to swim, we can't get far, and we drown. We need training. 

[Almostfaceman]

Solas is very positive that the problem is the Blight and not the arch demons. Thought this little tidbit was interesting.

 

Solas: We must stop the Wardens from carrying out this insane plan, Inquisitor. To seek out these old gods deliberately in some bizarre attempt to preempt the Blight...

 

Inquisitor: I wouldn't mind never having another Blight. Corypheus interfering is the real problem. 

 

Solas: The Blight is the real problem. 

 

Inquisitor: The Wardens are trying to end the Blight forever. 

 

Solas: Yes! Would it have worked? Do you know? Did they? The fools who first unleashed the Blight upon this world thought they were unlocking ultimate power. Forgive me, the entire idea is... unnerving. 

 

[Almostfaceman]

 

He's a hypocrite. He claims the wardens trying to prempt the blight is foolish and could make things worse, but this is the same guy who gave a darkspawn with a god complex a power boost and somehow thought it would benefit Thedas. 

 

 

Nah, he expected the Venatori leader to die unlocking the orb. He wasn't attempting to give anyone a power boost but himself. 

[Macha'Anu]

I don't find Solas emotionless at all... if he were emotionless, he wouldn't be crying about his lost world.

 

I think he's insanely melodramatic actually.  I equate him to Barnabas from Dark Shadows (the original, not Johnny Depp).  He thinks what he's saying is serious business.. but for me - I think he might be a melodrama demon.  "I'll kill you, but I'm SO SAD about it."  "I'll destroy the world, oh, but it hurts!  The feels!"

 

If he were cold and calculating about the whole thing I'd perhaps like him a bit better.

I don't understand why he cannot be sad for the people he may have gotten close too with the path he has chosen. In Vampire diaries, as one example, Klaus is an evil bast%$d but when it comes to Caroline, and his child, he becomes softened and feels guilt with his decsions HE makes to do what is best to save his family, or himself since he is pretty selfish at times but twists that selfishness as saving his family. As the video in my signiture says " I know you're in love with me and anyone capable of being loved is capable of being saved"

Yes his path is evil, misguided and wrong. Most of us admit this. Some of us however believe in the ideal that someone who is capable of loving, or even caring and its obvious he is capable of caring, is capable of being saved from themselves. That is the same ideal at rehabilitation for troubled teens who turn evil. Yes some people cannot be redeemed, and they should be delt with accordingly, but there is no reason to not try. But to say he doesnt love or care is just ridiculous.

Loghain loved his daughter did what HE thought was best for the country he loved. Even if he was wrong and many players gave him the chance to redeem himself. Even making love to the guy or romancing him..... Sometimes by letting someone who did absolutely nothing wrong but be born to a father who is king and took advangtadge of a washer lady Be murdered or exiled. I mean...He did not ask to be born nor did he ask for the life handed to him. He was purely innocent.

 

I understand there are people who dont like him. I can absolutely respect that. Some of us just expect the same respect and understanding. At various points in this thread some of us that choose to want to like him as a character have been compared to hitler, told we support genocide, called evil and all kinds of ignorant things. Its ridiculous.

We all like different things in this game. Its going to happen.

[midnight tea]

 

He's a hypocrite. He claims the wardens trying to prempt the blight is foolish and could make things worse, but this is the same guy who gave a darkspawn with a god complex a power boost and somehow thought it would benefit Thedas. 

 

False equivalence, nothing more.

[Lunatica]

By no means do I support Solas on 90% of the things he whines about, but we've already seen what will happen by removing darkspawn from the Old Gods' call in Awakening. They'll simply flood the surface because they have no reason to be in the deep roads otherwise. Really, the Grey Wardens as a whole should have come to this conclusion by now but they apparently ignore any revelations about the blight and just keep flinging themselves at it as they were instead.

 

 There is an idea about the payoff, being the removal of the singular entity that can command the entire darkspawn horde above ground. Even if they began to flood to the surface as a result of the lack of any Old Gods to call to them, they'd at least be a far less organized force. Facing a disorganized mass of darkspawn is preferable to facing a tightly knit legion of monsters that do not need to sleep, never get tired, and are led by a monster that is massively destructive by itself.

In DAA disciples weren't just regular darkpsawns there The Architect was involved as for the rest of your post I agree 100%

 

 

Still - obviously there's still something in Archdemons that is apparently worth saving. Flemeth risked everything to do exactly that after all, via Morrigan and her Dark Ritual. And in OGB Kieran world state, she tells us that he is also carrying a piece of what once was, snatched away from darkness. 

 

 

I think taking anyone at face value wihout any basic understanding of what they do is stupid. 

How do you know they are worth saving?

[German Soldier]

I think of it like swimming. There is no real barrier to the ocean, we can all walk in. But if we don't know how to swim, we can't get far, and we drown. We need training. 

Then i did good to compare this fade like an ocean where you need to learn to swim/dream better in order to find spirits.

[midnight tea]

I think taking anyone at face value wihout any basic understanding of what they do is stupid. 

 

You know what is stupid? Putting words in someone's mouth, or being quick to misrepresent what people are saying. Seriously, all this talk about passive-aggression and "no, you're stupid!" being stupid before and the first thing you do is you try and discredit people by implying that those you have some issues with are naive and stupid... And doing a shoddy job at that too, considering what I actually said.

 

Like, how did I take anything "at face value"? I said that it's apparent or possible that it happens, given what we know. I gave no hard answers when more theoretical possibilities were concerned, or declared what I said about it with absolute certainty.

 

How do you know they are worth saving?

 

Where did I say that they're worth saving - which I assume means objectively beneficial to the world? The exact thing I said is "who knows - may even be detrimental to the world in the long run."

 

So far we know that there is indeed value in saving OGB - even if that value exists only for Flemeth now. It just so happens that she's melded with ancient being who was basically a head of Elvhen pantheon and an old friend of a certain bald elf. This doesn't give us any hard answers, but it's certainly far more in terms of evidence or proper speculation than what a person I disagreed with has presented so far.

[Nimlowyn]

Then i did good to compare this fade like an ocean where you need to learn to swim/dream better in order to find spirits.

Time will tell as we have more to learn, but so far, it works for me.  

[Lunatica]

You know what is stupid? Putting words in someone's mouth, or being quick to misrepresent what people are saying. Seriously, all this talk about passive-aggression and "no, you're stupid!" being stupid before and the first thing you do is you try and discredit people by implying that those you have some issues with are naive and stupid... And doing a shoddy job at that too, considering what I actually said.

 

Spoiler

The @Almostfaceman Gif approach is splendid.

The key points of your post usually follow the rant so I will just  focus on them.

 

 

So far we know that there is indeed value in saving OGB - even if that value exists only for Flemeth now. It just so happens that she's melded with ancient being who was basically a head of Elvhen pantheon and an old friend of a certain bald elf. This doesn't give us any hard answers, but it's certainly far more in terms of evidence or proper speculation than what a person I disagreed with has presented so far.

Again what is the value in saving/creating the Ogb?

[Donquijote and 59 others]

There is no value in the Ogb ,he exist he does not exist the world is still the same

[Donk]

ROFL

[lynroy]

ROFL

QFT

[CoM Solaufein]

Fen will make elves GREAT again. GREAT!

[midnight tea]

Again what is the value in saving/creating the Ogb?

 

...Care to read the entirety of my comment?

 

So far we know that there is indeed value in saving OGB - even if that value exists only for Flemeth now. It just so happens that she's melded with ancient being who was basically a head of Elvhen pantheon and an old friend of a certain bald elf. This doesn't give us any hard answers, but it's certainly far more in terms of evidence or proper speculation than what a person I disagreed with has presented so far.

[Nimlowyn]

Fen will make elves GREAT again. GREAT!

They will be elves, the best elves, the most tremendous, beautiful elves. 

[Seraphim24]

Fen will make elves GREAT again. GREAT!

 

Ahaha!

 

All the chicken you need. 

[CoM Solaufein]

Every F-ing chicken in this room.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Machu Anu:  You can search the thread, if I said specifically that you or anyone by name supported genocide or loved Hitler or any such thing you can feel free to lay blame an I will sincerely apologize.  But, I think you will struggle finding me making claims like that. 

 

As for Solas.  The example you're giving is how he treats the romanced Inquisitor.  On a totally philosophical level Jesus says:  "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?  Are not even the tax collectors doing that?"  What he means is... even bad men (tax collectors were demonized in the Bible) love those who love them.  That's not a measure of goodness.  Even a killer or a thief loves who he loves.  It takes no amount of goodness for that and amounts to just selfishness in the end. 

 

I actually admire Solas for kicking his love interest to the curb.  Shows some small level of responsibility for his cruelty. 

 

I once had a born again Christian tell me that she loved me, but that I was going to hell for being gay.  She believed she loved me.  She was pained that I wasn't a real human to her.  She wanted to save me.  To make me better.  To "open my mind".  She believed this completely.  She wasn't lying to me in her eyes. 

 

She was bats--t delusional.  She convinced herself that her intolerance and ignorance were love so that she could do what she needed to do.  Condemn me.

 

Solas is - for me - the same being.  He wants modern Thedas to be saved (by his definition) - he wants to help them (by his definition) and he so "pained" that he can't.  So, he tells himself that he feels bad.. he tells himself that he cares and hopes someone, somewhere, can stop him (total lack of responsibility) but he's confident they can't.  So he has to make the "hard choice" and kill everyone because how could they stand living "practically Tranquil". 

 

No... Solas is the most insidious evil I have ever met in the real world and I will not tolerate him.

 

NOTE:  There is a chance that I would - at best - de-power him and let him wander the world a mortal elf with no magic until he dies if such a thing is possible.  Or, imprison him with his kin if he prefers that.  

 

-----------

 

Solas and the Blight. 

We have some indication that the Evanuris inadvertently created the Blight.  The records indicate they discovered something so terrible in the deep that they collapsed their tunnels and fled.  The Evanuris... these world shaping uber-beings.  

 

And still, this was Pre-Veil.  So it has nothing to do with bringing the Veil down.  

 

If the Blight is the "most important thing" then perhaps he should spend some time explaining to everyone why.  

 

The ancient elves aren't the answer... the ancient elves are probably why Thedas has the Blight.

 

So - until the elf explains more - I call bulls--t on his plans.