Well of course he is, I'm just saying, he didn't really need to be one, necessarily.
You can't complain in one post that "Solas shouldn't be the villain because villains should be evil psychopaths" and then in the next post that "Solas is an evil psychopath". 
You can't complain in one post that "Solas shouldn't be the villain because villains should be evil psychopaths" and then in the next post that "Solas is an evil psychopath".
That's not really what I said though, I said they should be infatuated with power and control.
You don't need to be a psychopath to crave power or dominance.
I think you associate that post about "hands on and control" as being somehow Solas no Solas is a wallflower gone mad.
Actually I think what's annoying.... ok... I think I have a better sense.
Like I think the villains should actually be kind of obvious in a sense? Like, Darkspawn, just kind of... chaotic evil. I feel like the world (as in global society) spends way too much time hating on like the people who aren't really all that bad. Like, Solas probably "shouldn't" be the villain, it should just be some crazy psycho evil figure where they are obviously malicious.
I feel like too often media seeks to exploit like this one element like a fatal flaw and create like huge chaos as a consequence which is just very annoying.
Like, this completely contradicts everything you have said up to this point. You say Solas shouldn't be the villain because he isn't "bad" and that people shouldn't hate on people that aren't that bad - but every single post you make has been a complaint about how completely awful and bad he is.
You can not argue both ways.
Like, this completely contradicts everything you have said up to this point. You say Solas shouldn't be the villain because he isn't "bad" and that people shouldn't hate on people that aren't that bad - but every single post you make has been a complaint about how completely awful and bad he is.
You can not argue both ways.
Ok, sorry if this is confusing.
But as we made clear, Solas in the game has gone crazy and wants to kill a bunch of people, so yes, he is the villain, yes we should hate him for that, yes, it's bad.
Here I am saying, because I noticed a discussion on the concepts of Villains generally, someone like Solas doesn't necessarily need to become a villain, per se, in the game, based on his actions, yes, inherently, no.
Ok, sorry if this is confusing.
But as we made clear, Solas in the game has gone crazy and wants to kill a bunch of people, so yes, he is the villain, yes we should hate him for that, yes, it's bad.
Here I am saying, because I noticed a discussion on the concepts of Villains generally, someone like Solas doesn't necessarily need to become a villain, per se, in the game, based on his actions, yes, inherently, no.
I'm curious - have you played Mass Effect, and if so do you consider Shaperd to be villainous?
Mass Effect spoilers -
I'm curious - have you played Mass Effect, and if so do you consider Shaperd to be villainous?
Mass Effect spoilers -
Spoiler
Yes I've played all 3 games on release, my understanding is that Shepard was essentially in a state of coercion because of the artificial body given to him by Cerberus. Cerberus is definitely evil though.
ME3 depends on the organic/inorganic thing doesn't it?
At any rate the option to be super evil yourself is in like a lot of games, Throne of Bhaal you can become the god of Murder. Darth Revan you become a sith lord, etc, etc.
Yes I've played all 3 games on release, my understanding is that Shepard was essentially in a state of coercion because of the artificial body given to him by Cerberus. Cerberus is definitely evil though.
ME3 depends on the organic/inorganic thing doesn't it?
At any rate the option to be super evil yourself is in like a lot of games, Throne of Bhaal you can become the god of Murder. Darth Revan you become a sith lord, etc, etc.
No, Cerberus had nothing to do with that decision. Shepard destroyed the planet because they felt like they had no choice and had to buy time to keep the Reapers at bay. Villain or not?
No, Cerberus had nothing to do with that decision. Shepard destroyed the planet because they felt like they had no choice and had to buy time to keep the Reapers at bay. Villain or not?
I'm trying to find this part but I can't to be honest. I really don't remember ME2 very well.
I'm trying to find this part but I can't to be honest. I really don't remember ME2 very well.
http://www.pcgamer.c...ffect-3-starts/
Yeah I don't play DLC so I missed out on that.
I tried to find out more but I imagine there are details like "were all the Batarians trying to kill Shepard" were some peaceful, proof of threat of Reapers etc etc etc the list goes on...
Yeah I don't play DLC so I missed out on that.
I tried to find out more but I imagine there are details like "were all the Batarians trying to kill Shepard" were some peaceful, proof of threat of Reapers etc etc etc the list goes on...
You kill an entire planet of innocent Batarians (including all the children/babies etc Like, it's an entire planet, so I'm sure there are some "bad" people there, but you kill all the babies too). It's because the Reapers are about to arrive, so you kill the Batarians because "you have no choice" to buy the rest of you some time before the Reapers arrive.
I'm just trying to get a handle on how you think about these things. Basically my question twofold -
1 - Is Shepard an psychopathic villain for this?
If yes - fair enough, I guess you class any act like this psychopathic no matter the reasoning.
If no, then I guess the reason you feel differently about Solas is because you do not believe him when he tells you he is in a similar "no choice" situation to save the world. I wonder if you would feel different if it was revealed in the next game that this was actually true?
You kill an entire planet of innocent Batarians (including all the children/babies etc Like, it's an entire planet, so I'm sure there are some "bad" people there, but you kill all the babies too). It's because the Reapers are about to arrive, so you kill the Batarians because "you have no choice" to buy the rest of you some time before the Reapers arrive.
I'm just trying to get a handle on how you think about these things. Basically my question twofold -
1 - Is Shepard an psychopathic villain for this?
If yes - fair enough, I guess you class any act like this psychopathic no matter the reasoning.
If no, then I guess the reason you feel differently about Solas is because you do not believe him when he tells you he is in a similar "no choice" situation to save the world. I wonder if you would feel different if it was revealed in the next game that this was actually true?
Well that sounds like self-defense a bit, yes many die but they would of all been indoctrinated and essentially dead I assume anyway? Unless they were indoctrinated anyway, or indoctrination can be broken, or would they have been killed?
The difference with Solas was well for one he was already a part of the Evanuris, he was basically a member of this slave-holding titan-killing machine and just kind of went snitch on them.
As far as we know, Shepard wasn't part of some half-human half-reaper ex-reaper who slaughtered and enslaved a bunch of people for giggles, but when a reaper hit on his bae reaper GF he went ape and put a stun bomb on the remaining reapers so that he could time travel to the present in order to warn everyone about the dangers of reapers and their propensity for enslaving and killing people.
Well that sounds like self-defense a bit, yes many die but they would of all been indoctrinated and essentially dead I assume anyway? Unless they were indoctrinated anyway, or indoctrination can be broken, or would they have been killed?
The difference with Solas was well for one he was already a part of the Evanuris, he was basically a member of this slave-holding titan-killing machine and just kind of went snitch on them.
But Solas wasn't one of the Evanuris, he was Mythal's guardian. There is absolutely nothing in the game to suggest Solas ever did anything like what the Evanuris did - notice how there are no Fen'Harel Vallaslin. Even if you look at the legends about that time, there's no mention of it. (and remember that the legends are actually all propaganda against him in the first place)
The legends about Fen'Harel at the time of the Evanuris only talk about -
- he saved a village of children. The adults die to a beast, but this is because he was not strong enough to fight it head on.
- he "hunted" Halla from Andruil without permission - and it seems pretty likely these "halla" were actually a metaphor for elves he was recruiting/rescuing since Andruil hunted them.
And then there are Cole quotes that seem to refer to him that talk about how he didn't even want to come to this world because he didn't want to fight.
Seriously, there is nothing to suggest he has anything like what the Evanuris did.
I take it you also think Mythal is a psychopath?
But Solas wasn't one of the Evanuris, he was Mythal's guardian. There is absolutely nothing in the game to suggest Solas ever did anything like what the Evanuris did - notice how there are no Fen'Harel Vallaslin. Even if you look at the legends about that time, there's no mention of it. (and remember that the legends are actually all propaganda against him in the first place)
The legends about Fen'Harel at the time of the Evanuris only talk about -
- he saved a village of children. The adults die to a beast, but this is because he was not strong enough to fight it head on.
- he "hunted" Halla from Andruil without permission - and it seems pretty likely these "halla" were actually a metaphor for elves he was recruiting/rescuing since Andruil hunted them.
And then there are Cole quotes that seem to refer to him that talk about how he didn't even want to come to this world because he didn't want to fight.
Seriously, there is nothing to suggest he has anything like what the Evanuris did.
I take it you also think Mythal is a psychopath?
Well wait a sec there's also no "reaper" threat here... I mean there's more to it than just a few things.
But I mean, it's true, Mythal certainly participated in Evanuris excess and is therefore likely a problem as well.
Also him being a "psychopath" is not =/= evil either, so he has not native moral compass and relies heavily on external signallers that's not a problem inherently.
Well wait a sec there's also no "reaper" threat here... I mean there's more to it than just a few things.
But I mean, it's true, Mythal certainly participated in Evanuris excess and is therefore likely a problem as well.
Did she? Got some proof of that? Everyone we've talked to who has actually met her says differently...
And my point is that Solas tells you he has no choice and only terrible options remain in a very similar way. So saying there is no other problem here just means you don't believe him. Which is fair enough, I'm just wondering if you would change your opinion if in the next game it turns out he was telling the truth.
You also seemed to have ignored the fact that Solas was not one of the Evanuris.
Did she? Got some proof of that? Everyone we've talked to who has actually met her says differently...
And my point is that Solas tells you he has no choice and only terrible options remain in a very similar way. So saying there is no other problem here just means you don't believe him. Which is fair enough, I'm just wondering if you would change your opinion if in the next game it turns out he was telling the truth.
Yeah, for him to survive, not for you.
It's not that I don't necessarily believe him, he definitely evades the truth, but he tells you he is going to kill you.
You also seemed to have ignored the fact that Solas was not one of the Evanuris.
Ok right he was Fen-Harel, he was higher than the Evanuris, possibly had control at times over like, everything. It seems logical given his relationship as equal to creator gods or whatever, he had a say, not an official member, but, you know.
Yeah, for him to survive, not for you.
That didn't address any of my points at all.
1 - You can believe he really means that all you want and that he was lying. Didn't answer my question of whether you change your opinion if he was telling the truth.
2 - You didn't address my point about how he wasn't one of the Evanuris, but was a guardian to Mythal, and didn't want to fight at all but was forced to.
3 - You didn't address my point about how everybody who has actually met Mythal didn't say she had done any of the things you claim either, and had only good things to say about her.
It seems that everything you say is based off believing everything we have found out from numerous sources (not from Fen'Harel himself) is an outright lie which is being propagated by multiple communities across time and space, and that what you believe is the "truth" is a bunch of old legends told from the point of view of a bunch of people who we have been repeatedly shown have got everything wrong across every subject imaginable.
Ok right he was Fen-Harel, he was higher than the Evanuris, possibly had control at times over like, everything. It seems logical given his relationship as equal to creator gods or whatever, he had a say, not an official member, but, you know.
What are you making up now? He was Mythal's guardian. He was much weaker than anybody else, probably a slave himself.
What are you making up now? He was Mythal's guardian. He was much weaker than anybody else, probably a slave himself.
Wait we don't know that, yes guardian but not his status.
That didn't address any of my points at all.
1 - You can believe he really means that all you want and that he was lying. Didn't answer my question of whether you change your opinion if he was telling the truth.
2 - You didn't address my point about how he wasn't one of the Evanuris, but was a guardian to Mythal, and didn't want to fight at all but was forced to.
3 - You didn't address my point about how everybody who has actually met Mythal didn't say she had done any of the things you claim either, and had only good things to say about her.
It seems that everything you say is based off believing everything we have found out from numerous sources (not from Fen'Harel himself) is an outright lie which is being propagated by multiple communities across time and space, and that what you believe is the "truth" is a bunch of old legends told from the point of view of a bunch of people who we have been repeatedly shown have got everything wrong across every subject imaginable.
Right, he tells you all that, and tells you he's going to kill you.
So yeah, I think something's fishy there.
But, even if it were true, lets say, how would that change the fact that you have to kill him to stop him from killing you?
Wait we don't know that, yes guardian but not his status.
... That's what it means to be someones guard and attendant. That you are lower than them.
Kings do not get attended on by people above them, then get attended on by servants and slaves.
... That's what it means to be someones guard and attendant. That you are lower than them.
Kings do not get attended on by people above them, then get attended on by servants and slaves.
And servants don't typically how the power to end the reign of gods.
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