4630 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Look when someone is like "your life is expendable, I'm going to have to kill you" you break the friendship bracelet, ok? Lol...

[Abyss108]

Right, he tells you all that, and tells you he's going to kill you.

 

So yeah, I think something's fishy there.

 

But, even if it were true, lets say, how would that change the fact that you have to kill him to stop him from killing you?

 

He tells you he will kill you to save his people, and that he does not have a choice here because otherwise something terrible will happen to the world. You can believe he's lying if you want, but it doesn't change what he said, which is not remotely like what you are saying. So you still haven't addressed this point.

 

You still missed the point about Mythal.

 

It doesn't seem like we do have to kill him, the writers have said they plan to support players who chose redeem - and even if we do end up having to kill him to survive ourselves, I don't see how that's related to my point? I always said that given the current information, we need to stop Solas. But what does that have to do with anything?

[Abyss108]

And servants don't typically how the power to end the reign of gods.

 

Do I need to go find a history book and find a bunch of examples of rebellions? Rebellions typically are not starting by the non-existent people above those with power. They are started by the lower classes.

[Seraphim24]

He tells you he will kill you to save his people, and that he does not have a choice here because otherwise something terrible will happen to the world. You can believe he's lying if you want, but it doesn't change what he said, which is not remotely like what you are saying. So you still haven't addressed this point.

 

You still missed the point about Mythal.

 

It doesn't seem like we do have to kill him, the writers have said they plan to support players who chose redeem - and even if we do end up having to kill him to survive ourselves, I don't see how that's related to my point? I always said that given the current information, we need to stop Solas. But what does that have to do with anything?

 

 

I don't care if he has a choice or not for whatever his goals are, he said I need to kill you to preserve this, he's an jerk, to put it lightly.

 

Plus how do we know we don't have to kill him to defend ourselves?

 

Is this like the 12 angry men point or something.

 

 

Wow go me for not finding the original.

[Seraphim24]

Do I need to go find a history book and find a bunch of examples of rebellions? Rebellions typically are not starting by the non-existent people above those with power. They are started by the lower classes.

 

 

A common misconception. Typically because we live in a world where those who feel powerless are compelled to push themselves to the top of the heap, whereas those that don't....

 

You are right, power is a factor, but generally the people who rise to the top in media/entertainment/politics do so because they are very pathetic and weak, not because they are powerful and strong.

[Abyss108]

I don't care if he has a choice or not for whatever his goals are, he said I need to kill you to preserve this, he's an jerk, to put it lightly.

 

Plus how do we know we don't have to kill him to defend ourselves?

 

Is this like the 12 angry men point or something.

 

 

And Shepard killed 300, 000 Batarians to save themselves and their people because there were only terrible options. Solas says he is doing something similar. Are we going to keep repeating this? Your argument is that you don't believe him. Which is fine - I simply wondered if you would change your mind if he was telling the truth. But it seems you are just going to pretend he didn't even say the lines he said in the game which makes it rather hard to discuss anything with you.

 

A common misconception.

 

 

OK, I guess power has never changed hands in the entire course of history then, since those without power can't rebel against those with it. Guess Ferealdan throwing out the Orlesians never happened... 

[Seraphim24]

And Shepard killed 300, 000 Batarians to save themselves and their people because there were only terrible options. Solas says he is doing something similar. Are we going to keep repeating this? Your argument is that you don't believe him. Which is fine - I simply wondered if you would change your mind if he was telling the truth. But it seems you are just going to pretend he didn't even say the lines he said in the game which makes it rather hard to discuss anything with you.

 

 

 

OK, I guess power has never changed hands in the entire course of history then, since those without power can't rebel against those with it. Guess Ferealdan throwing out the Orlesians never happened... 

 

Ok again, Shepard is the PC, he is protecting himself, as the player would.

 

Solas is not the PC, he is protecting himself, and attempting to kill the player.

[Abyss108]

Ok again, Shepard is the PC, he is protecting himself, as the player would.

 

Solas is not the PC, he is protecting himself, and attempting to kill the player.

 

 

So now you claim they both do it in self defence to protect themselves, but it's morally better is it's the PC who does it. 

 

It's only evil if someone other than yourself does it! 

[Seraphim24]

So now you claim they both do it in self defence to protect themselves, but it's morally better is it's the PC who does it. 

 

It's only evil if someone other than yourself does it! 

 

You finally got it.

 

The world works in mysterious, irrational, but real ways.

[Abyss108]

You finally got it.

 

The world works in mysterious, irrational, but real ways.

 

 

Well, I think that officially ends this conversation. 

[Seraphim24]

Well, I think that officially ends this conversation. 

 

Well I was referring to one part, it's questionable whether Solas's act is self-defense, truly.

 

But yes, I, the player, have the right to defend myself against Solas, who is not me, and trying to kill me.

 

I have the similar right as Shepard, but I can't necessarily just attack anyone, it also has to be in self-defense there.

[Seraphim24]

You know what happens when 2 people who both want to assert their right to exist collide? War, conflict, everything, the world, you can find that everywhere.

 

And considering Solas is such a crappy mage I'm not worried on that account.

 

Anyway, you brought up something else which is, do we have to kill him? Well based on the things he seems pretty set on it, ultimately though, lets say you don't have to.

 

Ok so Solas is the type of guy that periodically threatens to kill you, otherwise is very distant and goes off and does his own thing, and is otherwise prone to kind of insulting your intelligence or whatever else, but hey, some girls might be into that kind of thing, and who am I to judge them or the crazy relations they have worked out for themselves.

 

But me?

 

No thanks.

[Macha'Anu]

Talking to someone who won't actually talk to you about what you're talking about is kinda like this:

 

 

Lol. This made me giggle out loud 

[dawnstone]

[Nimlowyn]

Is this more flycam footage? I don't recognize this at all.

 

Can't wait to start my PC playthrough omg. 

[dawnstone]

Is this more flycam footage? I don't recognize this at all.

 

Can't wait to start my PC playthrough omg. 

Yeah. It just came across my dash again, so it seemed a good time to post it. XD

[Lady Artifice]

So now you claim they both do it in self defence to protect themselves, but it's morally better is it's the PC who does it. 

 

It's only evil if someone other than yourself does it! 

 

The ultimate in protagonist centered morality, the advocates completely unaware of it's own inherent hypocrisy. 

[Xerrai]

But Solas wasn't one of the Evanuris, he was Mythal's guardian.

Sorry if this seems abrupt, but was that ever confirmed?
The only thing I managed to glean from Trespaaser was that he was a self-made rebel (that some proclaimed a God) that just so happened to respect Mythal and was implied to have worked with her. Not that he was necessarily subservient to her.

The legends depict him as being both part of the pantheon and not. Just as he was a part of the Forgotten Ones and yet not. Though they are inaccurate in many cases, they also hold quite a bit of truth too (for instance, he did legit seal the creators in the beyond).

[Nimlowyn]

Yeah. It just came across my dash again, so it seemed a good time to post it. XD

I think well timed Solas gifs are perfect for this thread. 

[midnight tea]

Sorry if this seems abrupt, but was that ever confirmed?
The only thing I managed to glean from Trespaaser was that he was a self-made rebel (that some proclaimed a God) that just so happened to respect Mythal and was implied to have worked with her. Not that he was necessarily subservient to her.

The legends depict him as being both part of the pantheon and not. Just as he was a part of the Forgotten Ones and yet not. Though they are inaccurate in many cases, they also hold quite a bit of truth too (for instance, he did legit seal the creators in the beyond).

 

Actually, the Deep Roads section of Trespasser codexes suggest that he was her guardian at one point.

 

He was also an Evanura for a short while - as suggested by runes/mosaics in his old sanctuary. But his official acceptance to pantheon at that time was something that has happened after/during his rebellion and the first thing he does is renounce the title. Apparently the Evanuris either thought that they can appease him that way so he'd stop rebelling and freeing people subservient to them or it was a political move meant to put a wedge between him and his followers, whom he gained after declaring the gods as false.

[Seraphim24]

The ultimate in protagonist centered morality, the advocates completely unaware of it's own inherent hypocrisy. 

 

Hey! I'm completely aware of it's hypocrisy, it doesn't change the fact that it's the most logical way to view the situation.

 

Anyway, in the case of Solas, maybe it doesn't make it necessary to like "kill him," perhaps, ok, perhaps, it doesn't really make him any more likable, however.

 

Objectively, a player playing Shepard and given a choice to sacrifice X or Y, X being higher, should sacrifice Y because X is worse, the fact that it's the player themselves doesn't absolve them just because it's them. It doesn't mean they can do whatever they want.

 

It's a particular point to a particular question.

 

There's a reason there's a profound difference in emotional experience between someone standing one inch away from the person who gets hit by a bus, because despite our futile attempts to pretend otherwise, or make people believe we care so much, that person wasn't you. Maybe they were your friend, or something, it can still be sad, it can even be sad if you don't know them, but whenever sometime is happening, everyone's brain goes "does it affect, me?"

[Seraphim24]

 

It's a good gif, I cannot lie.

[Macha'Anu]

Sorry if this seems abrupt, but was that ever confirmed?
The only thing I managed to glean from Trespaaser was that he was a self-made rebel (that some proclaimed a God) that just so happened to respect Mythal and was implied to have worked with her. Not that he was necessarily subservient to her.

The legends depict him as being both part of the pantheon and not. Just as he was a part of the Forgotten Ones and yet not. Though they are inaccurate in many cases, they also hold quite a bit of truth too (for instance, he did legit seal the creators in the beyond).

Well, when I traveled the deep roads in tresspasser I found a letter that a elven Qun convert wrote asking himself why fenharel was guarding mythal in regards to two statues he found. I guess the statue of a wolf was set in a way as if it was guarding mythal statue. One could assume from that it's possible? But that's the only time I seen the words fenharel, guard and mythal all together. It's obvious their relationship is unique. And I personally am not sure he is Evanuris but I can't fully be sure. All I know is something coming has him unnerved and it's apparent he's grasping at pure desperation at this point.  

[midnight tea]

Hey! I'm completely aware of it's hypocrisy, it doesn't change the fact that it's the most logical way to view the situation.

 

 

Anyway, in the case of Solas, maybe it doesn't make it necessary to like "kill him," perhaps, ok, perhaps, it doesn't really make him any more likable, however.

 

Objectively, a player playing Shepard and given a choice to sacrifice X or Y, X being higher, should sacrifice Y because X is worse, the fact that it's the player themselves doesn't absolve them just because it's them. It doesn't mean they can do whatever they want.

 

It's a particular point to a particular question.

 

There's a reason there's a profound difference in emotional experience between someone standing one inch away from the person who gets hit by a bus, because despite our futile attempts to pretend otherwise, or make people believe we care so much, that person wasn't you. Maybe they were your friend, or something, it can still be sad, it can even be sad if you don't know them, but whenever sometime is happening, everyone's brain goes "does it affect, me?"

 

... Hypocrisy is the most logical way to view the situation. Huh... Talk about quick justifications. "It's OK, because it's logical! (...but not really, it's because it's the protagonist with whom player can form a closer emotional attachment to)"

[Seraphim24]

... Hypocrisy is the most logical way to view the situation. Huh... Talk about quick justifications. "It's OK, because it's logical! (...but not really, it's because it's the protagonist with whom player can form a closer emotional attachment to)"

 

 

Totally honest, not sure what you said here....