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[midnight tea]

Totally honest, not sure what you said here.... 

 

Well LOL, I'm just trying to make sense from what you just said.

[Lady Artifice]

Totally honest, not sure what you said here.... 

 

 

Midnight is saying that the player tendency to form a closer association with the protagonist than the antagonist renders siding with them an emotional response, not a logical one. 

 

To which I would add that hypocrisy is, by it's very nature, a failure in logic. 

[Seraphim24]

Midnight is saying that the player tendency to form a closer association with the protagonist than the antagonist renders siding with them an emotional response, not a logical one. 

 

To which I would add that hypocrisy is, by it's very nature, a failure in logic. 

 

I didn't say there was a tendency to "form a closer association with the protagonist than the antagonist."

 

I said given a choice between themselves and some other person living, they are going to pick themselves.

 

Incidentally, the people who argue in favor of such "sacrifice" are never, ever, talking themselves, they use it to justify their sacrifice of someone or something else. To which I would add that hypocrisy is, by it's very nature, a failure.

 

And actually correspondingly vindicates that my version of people's inherent logic is the correct one.

 

In fact, that's precisely the logic Solas is applying, that he should live over me, and no one criticizes him for it, why?

[Lady Artifice]

I didn't say there was a tendency to "form a closer association with the protagonist than the antagonist."

 

 

I know you didn't say that. I said that. 

 

 

 

I said given a choice between themselves and some other person living, they are going to pick themselves.

 

Incidentally, the people who argue in favor of such "sacrifice" are never, ever, talking themselves, they use it to justify their sacrifice of someone or something else. To which I would add that hypocrisy is, by it's very nature, a failure.

 

And actually correspondingly vindicates that my version of people's inherent logic is the correct one.

 

 

I'm as disinclined to discuss your incoherent, OT philosophies as I've ever been, especially when you continue to stoop to indecorously and blatantly plagiarizing other people's words. 

 

 

 

In fact, that's precisely the logic Solas is applying, that he should live over me, and no one criticizes him for it, why?

 

 

An unanswerable question, by virtue of the fact that an immense number of people do criticize him for his actions. They do so frequently in this very thread. 

[midnight tea]

I didn't say there was a tendency to "form a closer association with the protagonist than the antagonist."

 

I said given a choice between themselves and some other person living, they are going to pick themselves.

 

Incidentally, the people who argue in favor of such "sacrifice" are never, ever, talking themselves, they use it to justify their sacrifice of someone or something else. To which I would add that hypocrisy is, by it's very nature, a failure.

 

And actually correspondingly vindicates that my version of people's inherent logic is the correct one.

 

In fact, that's precisely the logic Solas is applying, that he should live over me, and no one criticizes him for it, why?

 

TBH at this point I have no idea what you're saying. What is apparent is that you're doing are some bizarre logical contortions where at first hypocrisy is 'most logical', only to become, 'by its very nature, a failure' - it's obvious that you're simply bending over backwards to try and find new ways to attack Solas, while at the very same time avoiding coherently responding to comparison made between him and ME protagonist.

 

Plus... yeah, again, you say things that suggest that you either didn't play the game or didn't bother to listen to it. Solas tells us, in no vague terms and multiple times, that he is going to pay dearly for what he's planning to do. That the only thing awaiting him is some form of death and eternal punishment (and he doesn't want anyone else suffer it).

 

So... wtf are you talking about "Solas picking himself over others"? And why people should criticize him for something he's not doing?

[Seraphim24]

blatantly plagiarizing other people's words. 

 

The quote function does sort of do that.

 

Also what's with all the hurricane of indecorously and discinclined and such I feel like I'm being insulted in Middle English.

 

But hey! If you want to go to a Ren Faire or something sometime...

 

I think I might have some idea what you are referring to, but this instance of slanderous decorous overzealoatry has me barmbadilled.. 

 

Anyway, I think also you can maybe take a joke..

 

IAn unanswerable question, by virtue of the fact that an immense number of people do criticize him for his actions. They do so frequently in this very thread. 

 

Right, ok.

 

See, I'm not sure entirely what the problem is here... if I don't like Solas, as I've made totally clear, that's just the thing. But hey, I can go play other games, or do, well lots of other things, and that's all fine.

 

People are entitled to their perspectives right? So I get graphic with "ice spike in the forehead" it's video games there's lots of that sort of thing, I mean really tell that to flunky #1391 of the Venatori.

[Seraphim24]

TBH at this point I have no idea what you're saying. What is apparent is that you're doing are some bizarre logical contortions where at first hypocrisy is 'most logical', only to become, 'by its very nature, a failure' - it's obvious that you're simply bending over backwards to try and find new ways to attack Solas, while at the very same time avoiding coherently responding to comparison made between him and ME protagonist.

 

Plus... yeah, again, you say things that suggest that you either didn't play the game or didn't bother to listen to it. Solas tells us, in no vague terms and multiple times, that he is going to pay dearly for what he's planning to do. That the only thing awaiting him is some form of death and eternal punishment (and he doesn't want anyone else suffer it).

 

So... wtf are you talking about "Solas picking himself over others"? And why people should criticize him for something he's not doing?

 

it's true he's very melancholy a lot of the time.

 

What if I just said well ok, he's threatening and intends to sort of kill me but it isn't happening this instant so I'll wait? That seems irrational. I can wait, in a game, but that won't change his sort of... rough around the edges personality... I guess I can say, fine, that is what it is.. I won't judge it in that sense of a reaction, but I'll judge it in the "I'm going to go that-a-way"

[Lady Artifice]

The quote function does sort of do that.

 

Also what's with all the hurricane of indecorously and discinclined and such I feel like I'm being insulted in Middle English.

 

But hey! If you want to go to a Ren Faire or something sometime...

 

 

Right, ok.

 

See, I'm not sure entirely what the problem is here... if I don't like Solas, as I've made totally clear, that's just the thing. But hey, I can go play other games, or do, well lots of other things, and that's all fine.

 

People are entitled to their perspectives right? So I get graphic with "ice spike in the forehead" it's video games there's lots of that sort of thing, I mean really tell that to flunky #1391 of the Venatori.

 

 

I'm not referring to the quote function, Kefka. I'm referring to the part where you took the sentence I wrote about hypocrisy being a failure at logic and cut off the ending to repurpose it for your own use.

 

Of course it's fine if you dislike Solas. No one is trying to convince you to feel otherwise. It's your erratic logic and inconsistent arguments that are being challenged, not your right to your opinion. 

[Seraphim24]

^

I think I had a sense what you were talking about, that wasn't why I wrote all that, Artifice. I'm referring to the fact that I don't really know why we're arguing here?

 

So please, tell me, without sending a hawk after, which part is most erratic? And I will see, if I can't explain myself better. I think Abyss, for whatever reason, found satisfaction, so, maybe it isn't impossible.

[Ghost Gal]

Ok again, Shepard is the PC, he is protecting himself, as the player would.

 

Solas is not the PC, he is protecting himself, and attempting to kill the player.

 

... WOW.

 

Nice bit of protagonist-centered morality!

 

"When the PC does it, it's totally fine! When an NPC does the exact same thing (especially to the player), it's completely bad!"

 

If I were you, I would be EMBARRASSED that I said something like this to a whole thread full of people.

[Seraphim24]

... WOW.

 

Nice bit of protagonist-centered morality!

 

"When the PC does it, it's totally fine! When an NPC does the exact same thing (especially to the player), it's completely bad!"

 

If I were you, I would be EMBARRASSED that I said something like this to a whole thread full of people.

 

I would be too.

[Donk]

...

[Seraphim24]

...

[Lady Artifice]

^

I think I had a sense what you were talking about, that wasn't why I wrote all that, Artifice. I'm referring to the fact that I don't really know why we're arguing here?

 

 

We're arguing because we fundamentally disagree on most topics, including how to properly define and identify logic.

 

 

So please, tell me, without sending a hawk after, which part is most erratic? And I will see, if I can't explain myself better. I think Abyss, for whatever reason, found satisfaction, so, maybe it isn't impossible.

 

 

At this present time, it's your switch from praising hypocrisy as logical to condemning it as failure. 

[Seraphim24]

We're arguing because we fundamentally disagree on most topics, including how to properly define and identify logic.

 

 

 

At this present time, it's your switch from praising hypocrisy as logical to condemning it as failure. 

 

That's extremely loaded to say I "Praise hypocrisy" or condemn hypocrisy because as stated it's the only logical principle that's applied consistently. If you consider that each person is applying the same universal principle identically, then it's not hypocritical when it affects a persons individual standpoint.

 

What would be hypocritical is for instance to suggest that one person should apply it or even imply such a point is arguable and then take that away by suggesting they alter it in accord with some emotional bias, why this sudden interest in a person's individual bias? Oh! It's because suddenly someone has made a subjective evaluation between the value of two people.

 

At any rate, the only option to avoid that trap is to universally condemn anyone who puts their own self-interest first, for like, anything, which would still involve arbitrary re-evaluations anyway.

[Lady Artifice]

It's like he's trying to speak to me, I know it. 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

The Old Gods seem like nothing but trouble, and snuffing them out in their sleep before the darkspawn can get their blighty claws on them seems like as good a plan as any, provided it can actually be done. 

 If there was a way they could forge through the deep roads and successfully kill the old gods before the darkspawn had a chance to corrupt them without slitting each others' throats in crazy blood rituals, I'd probably be pretty on board with that plan, Solas be damned. Now, if he actually spelled out a good reason why this would be bad, then I'd be all ears, but "It could be worse" is insufficient.

Myself and some others have already spelled out why that might be a bad idea. Remember the whole "darkspawn might poor out onto the unprepared surface and kill the land and its people" thing? Now, that might not happen, but is it worth the risk?

 

If we feed the trolls they only grow stronger, and threads that used to be interesting become dull affairs. The ignore list is pretty handy, I'm almost never annoyed on the BSN anymore.

Wait, so trolls are like spirits, or the Evanuris? We give them their power?

 

There are some comments I make where I pretty much 100% expect the response to be negative to it, I don't make those comments for other people's approval per se. A lot of the time I just know and can see things plain as day and have to record that fact somewhere...

 

So yeah, I sometimes anticipatorialy, skip those.... I essentially always back later and read them though after I expect the emotion to have dissipated.

 

If I'm quoting and responding to someone though I most certainly read it.

 

You know to be honest that "typical tea" was almost like in jest to be silly and lighten the mood but I thought it might be taken the wrong way... and here we are....

 

I mean really everyone has a style here.

 

German, Aren, Rare, and Lunatica all make these insightful cutting comments and upsets people's perfectly formed ideas and that makes them lash out.

 

Faceman posts gifs to everything.

 

Tea just winds up with this WHY I OUGHTA- before basically just making a plain point.

 

Sah tries to make peace by offering gentle and delicate idealistic banter, without really directly engaging or supporting anything in particular although seeming to evidence a modest distaste for anti-Solas.

 

Lynroy and Macha are exclusively devoted to just throwing tomatos.

 

Bayonet offers a sly reasoned analysis.

 

Medhia offers introverted emotional striking darts.

 

Abyss doesn't deny the evil in Solas but is kind of ok with it anyway.

 

Etc.

Guess I'm either too boring, too inconsistent, or too mysterious to appear here

Mixed Feelings Inquisitor

 

So based on that we should ship

 

Tea and German

Faceman and himself

Bayonet and Sah

Lynroy and Macha

Abyss and Medhia

 

Um feel free to chime in rest of all.

I'm... relieved I'm not listed here though

 

Well intentioned extremist is in like every Hollywood movie ever made though. Anyway, that's my problem with it.

Well, I don't think that's true, I see many more generic evil villains. Even if it was true though, why should you have a problem with it? Just because it's popular? Tropes are not bad. It only matters if something works, not how much it's used. I mean, if it does work, using it would be good, no?

 

Stories need opposites to give them something that drives them forward, The Inquisitor - Solas is a very good one, IMO. What you describe sounds a lot like "Medieval Sim City" to me. Would never buy that.

I agree. I've played games without clear antagonists, and they're less satisfying that way - they lack something. Not that it makes them bad, of course. They can still be great, but I generally like having an enemy with a face, if that makes sense.

 

Totally honest, not sure what you said here.... 

Now you know how we feel sometimes!

[Seraphim24]

Well, I don't think that's true, I see many more generic evil villains. Even if it was true though, why should you have a problem with it? Just because it's popular? Tropes are not bad. It only matters if something works, not how much it's used. I mean, if it does work, using it would be good, no?

 

Well ok, sure.

[Seraphim24]

Now you know how we feel sometimes!

 

Well, I didn't actually say "Look at me, here is the perfect answer to every question." So sometimes it's kind of a process.

 

Anyway, basically I see Solas as a Hollywood archetype in a video game.

 

Does that work for... someone?

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Also what's with all the hurricane of indecorously and discinclined and such I feel like I'm being insulted in Middle English.

Anyway, I think also you can maybe take a joke..

 

My turn for jokes.

[Seraphim24]

My turn for jokes.

 

What request? That was a pretty fun movie though.

[Seraphim24]

<snip>

 

Ok, which part didn't make sense to you?

[Ieldra]

Solas tells us, in no vague terms and multiple times, that he is going to pay dearly for what he's planning to do. That the only thing awaiting him is some form of death and eternal punishment (and he doesn't want anyone else suffer it).

 

So... wtf are you talking about "Solas picking himself over others"? And why people should criticize him for something he's not doing?

???

I didn't hear him say anything like that. Source please. As I see it, Solas *is* picking "his people" over others, and that includes himself.

[R0vena]

???

I didn't hear him say anything like that. Source please. As I see it, Solas *is* picking "his people" over others, and that includes himself.

I think it happens if romanced Inquisitor asks to go with him. He answers that nothing but death awaits him on his chosen path.

 

 

About 3.30, I think.

 

He may pick his people over others, but he  doesn't expect anything good for himself in the end.

[Sah291]

???
I didn't hear him say anything like that. Source please. As I see it, Solas *is* picking "his people" over others, and that includes himself.

He says something in elven how he walks the journey of death, or something like that, when you ask to help/take you with him. I don't know if it's meant literal or metaphorical, but either way it doesn't sound good.

It makes me wonder because in the base game, he implies the breach would have wiped him out too. So I think either he is different from the other ancient elves now and won't survive (without his power), or his plan to get rid of the other Evanuris includes himself. Who knows. But it does sound like Solas is the type to sacrifice himself for his people/cause. He's already sacrificed his chance at happiness.