4635 réponses à ce sujet

[dawnstone]

 

 

Bolded: I think you mean descendants.

 

Actually, thank you for showing me the first half of this comic. I've been trying to find it without success. (Dang it, Pinterest.)

Lol, sorry, been drunk posting tonight.

[Ghost Gal]

Lol, sorry, been drunk posting tonight.

 

Heh, no problem. I do it all the time. 

[Ghost Gal]

And I can only shake my head at dismissing people interested with complex character or intriguing potential storylines or arcs or plot points as a case of fangirlism. It's almost Godwin's Law 2.0 at this point - just slap that 'fangirl' label and leave it at that ! I mean, it's not like accusing people of fanboyism or fangirlism is one of Internet's most favorite non-arguments ever, rife over here in BSN as well...

 

Not to mention that there's are plethora of people here, or reddit or other forums with varying levels of approval for Solas, even those who claim that they don't much like him, or never romanced him, but will still attempt to save him. The game itself also doesn't just present the option to redeem him to romanced Lavellans. Heck, every Inky with approval level with Solas that is above 0 has a chance to save him, and I'm pretty sure BW wouldn't present us with such option if the path of redemption was just added there for sh*ts and giggles. 

 

So no hon - you actually don't seem to understand. No, it's not all the mystique of tragic romance; that's merely a cherry on top of already delicious cake. Solas would remain an intriguing character with or without romance arc, simply for the conflict he's already in and possibility of presenting a lot of potential conflict to either Inky or PC in DA4 game, no matter if Quizzies chose to redeem or stop him at all costs. As an aspiring storyteller myself, I can't do anything other than approve.

 

I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with.

 

I think David Gaider summed it up best here:

 

I felt like I really needed to take a closer look [at Twlight] because I suspected that part of the hate was the apparent default that anything teenage girls like is inherently bad. Think about it. Teenage boys like something? Awesome. Teenage girls? Terrible. That boy band is a blight upon the world, for instance, and oh god I heard a song of theirs on the radio and it was kinda catchy I better not say anything because BLIGHT UPON THE WORLD.

 

In terms of video games, I noticed that people always look for reasons to trivialize and dismiss characters or romances that female players like.

 

I remember back before BioWare figured out how to write "nice guy" romance options that were also interesting and complex for the mainstream popular consciousness, so if there were romance options in video games gals tended to go for the "bad boy" because he tended to just be more interesting or better-written? (Casavir and Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2 is a great example. Casavir is the noble, selfless paladin--and that's all there is to him. Bishop is the chaotic evil murderer and womanizer--but he was also interesting, complex, funny in a dark and twisted way, and shared some genuine chemistry with the female PC. ) Whenever female players admitted to liking the darker romance option, and everyone dismissed it as, "Oh, girls just like bad boys. They can't appreciate a nice guy."

 

Then, as of DAO, BioWare finally figured out how to write an interesting, complex, funny, compelling "nice guy" romances for the mainstream; and ever since then, BioWare's "nice guy" romances have almost always been more popular than the "bad boy" ones. DAO: Alistair was more popular than Zevran. ME2 and ME3: Garrus has been the most popular male LI. DA2: Many gals wished Varric had been a romance option instead of being stuck with just Broody 1 and Broody 2 Anders and Fenris (and annoying fundamentalist religious hypocrite Sebastian). DAI: I think Cullen was far and away more popularity than solemn Blackwall and BDSM Bull. But, once again, people find a way to spin it into a negative. "Oh, girls just want the generic Prince Charming type. They want a Knight In Shining Armor to fawn over them."

 

Funny thing about Solas, when the game first came out and Solas enjoyed an unexpected wave of popularity, the same peanut gallery that tended to say, "Girls just want a conventionally gorgeous male model" were conspicuously silent since Solas isn't conventionally attractive. And he's BALD! But then as word got around that he was the Dread Wolf, suddenly it was, "Oh, girls just like Solas because he's a GOD. They want to feel flattered that a GOD is fawning over them!" Now that his godhood has been disproven, suddenly it's, "It's all the mystique of the tragic love affair."

 

For heaven's sake! Can't we like something because it's good? Can't we like a character because we find that character interesting, complex, engaging, enjoyable, or compelling? Because it's a great character, or a great story, or has great chemistry with the female PC, etc? Can't we like something because it has intellectual and artistic merit; not because of some banal reason you keep trying to configure into being?

 

I'm not saying there aren't women or girls out there who like things for superficial reasons. But, in general, if you something has a large female fanbase (from characters to movies to bands), instead of jumping to think, "It must be for a really stupid reason," maybe stop and consider that maybe there's something legitimate to like about it.

[ERINII]

Honestly, I didn't find Solas attractive or interesting at first. At all. I found it incredibly annoying that everything I did seemed to result in Solas Greatly Disapproves. But later on I started to have that same problem with every character so I proceeded to hate everyone equally.

After I was more familiar with the approval system I gave a new chance to the characters, also interacted them with a more open mind and tried to understand why each would think the way they did. I feel like I also came to understand their senses of humour and when it's appropriate to throw in a joke... in RL I still need to practice this.

At this point I realized Solas' appeal. He's a thinker, so he carefully chooses what he says and leaves unsaid. He prefers to discuss with spirits because he's lost faith in the dwellers of the material world. However, because the Inquisitor shows him compassion and wants to understand him, Solas returns the favour (I.e. the case of Cole) and, little by little, places trust in them.

The romance path is also very different from the other ones, so naturally it's intriguing. I feel like the relationship of the Inquisitor and Solas is first and foremost built on mutual trust and understanding. They don't neccessarily need words to convey their feelings - I imagine they could simply look at each other and feel content. There is a sense of yearning, but innocence as well.

The final romance scene in the base game was also very powerful and something that stayed with me. Solas knows they need to part ways soon, but he also wants to spend a final special moment with the Inquisitor - and to give them something permanent that will remind them of him even after he's gone.

It's the little things that make him unique, I would think.

[Sah291]

That's odd, in my game he said he has plenty of friends: spirits.

Yeah in the past. It happens when you first get his personal quest. He mentions needing help for a friend. The IQ says something in surprise like, I thought you said you didn't have any friends... And then he responds, I don't. The Inquisitor acts confused...then he admits it's a spirit friend.

So I think the implication is that he pushes all potential friends away, even spirits, save the Wisdom spirit which was a very old friend from way back and was in trouble. He was friends with Mythal but hasn't seen her in ages, and that relationship seems complicated anyway. He does push even Cole away too, in the end. So it's been a long time since he's had friends... Until Inquisition.

Why get close to people you know you are gonna hurt, use, or betray. Look what happened when Felassan got too close to Briala. It happens with the Inquisitor more by accident, I think. He wasn't looking for friends, and he was certainly very lonely because of that fact.

[Almostfaceman]

I mostly agree, but I don't think Sera's conversations are supposed to be happening out of earshot - with few exceptions, like post-credit scene, the game is designed so the story happens within earshot of Inquisitor. They're the central PoV - what happens around them, they're aware of. That certainly applies to banters as well.

 

It's cool if you don't agree. Let me clarify and maybe it'll make sense.

 

Party banter is mainly focused on the player. Not the protagonist. They're not (for the vast majority) interactive. They're character moments to tell us the story of our party members. They reveal character, lore, plot exposition. Their focus is not the relationship between the protagonist and their squad. We can't even explore the ideas introduced... like the interesting conversations between Sera and Solas can't be mined by us through talking to them then, or later. 

 

So the protagonist doesn't have to "hear" any of the banter. That dialogue is aimed at the fourth wall. Us. 

[SkinVision]

(...)

Varric defends Wardens and Solas concedes that they indeed bought them some time. Sera argues against turning Jennies into more they're now and he accepts that.

(...)

 

Agree with all of your points. Here's my favorite bit of conversation between Varric and Solas. Their banter is one of the most insightful throughout the entire game.

 

• Solas: You truly are content to sit in the sun, never wondering what you could've been, never fighting back.
• Varric: Ha, you've got it all wrong, Chuckles. This is fighting back.
• Solas: How does passively accepting your fate constitute a fight?
• Varric: In that story of yours—-the fisherman watching the stars, dying alone. You thought he gave up, right?
• Solas: Yes.
• Varric: But he went on living. He lost everyone, but he still got up every morning. He made a life, even if it was alone.
• Varric: That's the world. Everything you build, it tears down. Everything you've got, it takes. And it's gone forever.
• Varric: The only choices you get are to lie down and die or keep going. He kept going. That's as close to beating the world as anyone gets.
• Solas: Well said. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[Valhallix]

I disagree about Dorian; I thought he was awesome. But it's true that Bioware seems to have a thing for father (or father figure) issues. Look at Mass Effect! Almost everyone has them!

He might be likable, but similar to Sera he's only interesting because he plays into this particular character trope, not because his story is actually good or written well.

[midnight tea]

It's cool if you don't agree. Let me clarify and maybe it'll make sense.

 

Party banter is mainly focused on the player. Not the protagonist. They're not (for the vast majority) interactive. They're character moments to tell us the story of our party members. They reveal character, lore, plot exposition. Their focus is not the relationship between the protagonist and their squad. We can't even explore the ideas introduced... like the interesting conversations between Sera and Solas can't be mined by us through talking to them then, or later. 

 

So the protagonist doesn't have to "hear" any of the banter. That dialogue is aimed at the fourth wall. Us. 

 

No, it is focused on protagonist as much as it is on player. Why? Because there are multiple instances during banter when Inquisitor can chime in or address them directly; sometimes we can even pick a response. What's more, Inky can address thing they've heard through banter later in Skyhold - like in case of Dorian and Bull hooking together or Blackwall having a soft spot for Josephine. And we can only do that AFTER we heard enough banter.

 

So no - the banters are most certainly written to be at the very least overheard by Inky.

 

He might be likable, but similar to Sera he's only interesting because he plays into this particular character trope, not because his story is actually good or written well.

 

I don't find that true at all. I wouldn't like Dorian as much if he was simply a walking trope.

[Medhia_Nox]

I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with.

 

I think David Gaider summed it up best here:

 

 

 

 

In terms of video games, I noticed that people always look for reasons to trivialize and dismiss characters or romances that female players like.

 

I remember back before BioWare figured out how to write "nice guy" romance options that were also interesting and complex for the mainstream popular consciousness, so if there were romance options in video games gals tended to go for the "bad boy" because he tended to just be more interesting or better-written? (Casavir and Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2 is a great example. Casavir is the noble, selfless paladin--and that's all there is to him. Bishop is the chaotic evil murderer and womanizer--but he was also interesting, complex, funny in a dark and twisted way, and shared some genuine chemistry with the female PC. ) Whenever female players admitted to liking the darker romance option, and everyone dismissed it as, "Oh, girls just like bad boys. They can't appreciate a nice guy."

 

Then, as of DAO, BioWare finally figured out how to write an interesting, complex, funny, compelling "nice guy" romances for the mainstream; and ever since then, BioWare's "nice guy" romances have almost always been more popular than the "bad boy" ones. DAO: Alistair was more popular than Zevran. ME2 and ME3: Garrus has been the most popular male LI. DA2: Many gals wished Varric had been a romance option instead of being stuck with just Broody 1 and Broody 2 Anders and Fenris (and annoying fundamentalist religious hypocrite Sebastian). DAI: I think Cullen was far and away more popularity than solemn Blackwall and BDSM Bull. But, once again, people find a way to spin it into a negative. "Oh, girls just want the generic Prince Charming type. They want a Knight In Shining Armor to fawn over them."

 

Funny thing about Solas, when the game first came out and Solas enjoyed an unexpected wave of popularity, the same peanut gallery that tended to say, "Girls just want a conventionally gorgeous male model" were conspicuously silent since Solas isn't conventionally attractive. And he's BALD! But then as word got around that he was the Dread Wolf, suddenly it was, "Oh, girls just like Solas because he's a GOD. They want to feel flattered that a GOD is fawning over them!" Now that his godhood has been disproven, suddenly it's, "It's all the mystique of the tragic love affair."

 

For heaven's sake! Can't we like something because it's good? Can't we like a character because we find that character interesting, complex, engaging, enjoyable, or compelling? Because it's a great character, or a great story, or has great chemistry with the female PC, etc? Can't we like something because it has intellectual and artistic merit; not because of some banal reason you keep trying to configure into being?

 

I'm not saying there aren't women or girls out there who like things for superficial reasons. But, in general, if you something has a large female fanbase (from characters to movies to bands), instead of jumping to think, "It must be for a really stupid reason," maybe stop and consider that maybe there's something legitimate to like about it.

 

How would anyone even know you're a girl?  

 

As for you liking something that is good.  Of course you can, but just because you like it and you're a girl who thinks I'm going to marginalize you... does not actually mean I have to agree with you. 

 

I hate Solas - and the fact that you may, or may not, believe that makes me "closed minded" or "stubborn" or "not open to the glories that are the opinions of Solas lovers." or whatever other argumentative attempts used by internet people to convince others to like what they like.. actually doesn't matter, because you couldn't possibly form a useful opinion about an internet individual (nor could anyone).

 

You should be able to like Solas regardless of whether or not I, or anyone else does. Your two options are not "convert them to liking Solas" or "be victimized by them because they're oppressing me".  There's a third one - "allow people to hate something I like because I'm a self-confident individual that doesn't need other people to give value to my opinions".  

 

You love Solas - spectacular.  You find depth and meaning in his story.  Rock on.  But this is a public forum... and dissenting opinions aren't just "wrong because".  

[Abyss108]

 

 

You seem to be a really big fan of taking something that someone said, pretending they said something completely different, and ranting against that imaginary argument. 

[maia0407]

I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with.
 
I think David Gaider summed it up best here:
 

 
In terms of video games, I noticed that people always look for reasons to trivialize and dismiss characters or romances that female players like.
 
I remember back before BioWare figured out how to write "nice guy" romance options that were also interesting and complex for the mainstream popular consciousness, so if there were romance options in video games gals tended to go for the "bad boy" because he tended to just be more interesting or better-written? (Casavir and Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2 is a great example. Casavir is the noble, selfless paladin--and that's all there is to him. Bishop is the chaotic evil murderer and womanizer--but he was also interesting, complex, funny in a dark and twisted way, and shared some genuine chemistry with the female PC. ) Whenever female players admitted to liking the darker romance option, and everyone dismissed it as, "Oh, girls just like bad boys. They can't appreciate a nice guy."
 
Then, as of DAO, BioWare finally figured out how to write an interesting, complex, funny, compelling "nice guy" romances for the mainstream; and ever since then, BioWare's "nice guy" romances have almost always been more popular than the "bad boy" ones. DAO: Alistair was more popular than Zevran. ME2 and ME3: Garrus has been the most popular male LI. DA2: Many gals wished Varric had been a romance option instead of being stuck with just Broody 1 and Broody 2 Anders and Fenris (and annoying fundamentalist religious hypocrite Sebastian). DAI: I think Cullen was far and away more popularity than solemn Blackwall and BDSM Bull. But, once again, people find a way to spin it into a negative. "Oh, girls just want the generic Prince Charming type. They want a Knight In Shining Armor to fawn over them."
 
Funny thing about Solas, when the game first came out and Solas enjoyed an unexpected wave of popularity, the same peanut gallery that tended to say, "Girls just want a conventionally gorgeous male model" were conspicuously silent since Solas isn't conventionally attractive. And he's BALD! But then as word got around that he was the Dread Wolf, suddenly it was, "Oh, girls just like Solas because he's a GOD. They want to feel flattered that a GOD is fawning over them!" Now that his godhood has been disproven, suddenly it's, "It's all the mystique of the tragic love affair."
 
For heaven's sake! Can't we like something because it's good? Can't we like a character because we find that character interesting, complex, engaging, enjoyable, or compelling? Because it's a great character, or a great story, or has great chemistry with the female PC, etc? Can't we like something because it has intellectual and artistic merit; not because of some banal reason you keep trying to configure into being?
 
I'm not saying there aren't women or girls out there who like things for superficial reasons. But, in general, if you something has a large female fanbase (from characters to movies to bands), instead of jumping to think, "It must be for a really stupid reason," maybe stop and consider that maybe there's something legitimate to like about it.

Gaider's post was full of win and my respect for him shot through the roof after reading it. I was sad when he moved to the secret IP and may or may not have gotten dust in my eyes when he went to Beamdog.

Entertainment that is targeted for women does tend to have the stigma of being frivolous and not serious business like male targeted entertainment. Typical comic book offerings are superior to Twilight, right?

I really enjoyed Solas both as a friend and as a romance. I won't defend my reasons for liking him here as they have already been discussed to death. But, anyone that asserts that I can only like Solas for inferior "fangirl" reasons is an asshat, bless their heart.

[Medhia_Nox]

You seem to be a really big fan of taking something that someone said, pretending they said something completely different, and ranting against that imaginary argument. 

 

"I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with."

 

How did I pretend she said that men marginalize her opinion?  

 

That whole David Gaider article is about being marginalized by "haters". 

 

Unless she's saying that other women are making that assumption... 

 

@maia0407:  Bullcrap... "boys" just don't give a crap if you think they're immature.  Comic book movies and Transformers aren't "more mature" than Twilight.  They're all puerile entertainment garbage.

 

It's just a matter of which puerile entertainment you enjoy...  but it "seems" that only one group flies off the hand at being considered liking something "childish".

[Medhia_Nox]

DELETED 

[Akiza]

I like Solas when he is more on wise mode and less in genocide mode.

Yes i may have some problems when i choose guys but i always wanted a magical wolf as LI

[maia0407]

"I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with."
 
How did I pretend she said that men marginalize her opinion?  
 
That whole David Gaider article is about being marginalized by "haters". 
 
Unless she's saying that other women are making that assumption... 
 
@maia0407:  Bullcrap... "boys" just don't give a crap if you think they're immature.  Comic book movies and Transformers aren't "more mature" than Twilight.  They're all puerile entertainment garbage.
 
It's just a matter of which puerile entertainment you enjoy...  but it "seems" that only one group flies off the hand at being considered liking something "childish".

Point *whooooosh*

You really shouldn't make blanket statements about how "boys" feel about their entertainment being disparaged as its too easy to refute your statement. You don't really seem to have a handle on sexism and the impact that has on how women's entertainment is typically devalued simply for being for women and not necessarily on content. To be honest though, I have no desire to attempt to explain those dynamics as you seem particularly resistant to any viewpoint other than your own and weirdly hostile enough to make it a pain in my arsehole to do so. So have an eye roll in advance for your next cluelessly aggressive post and have a great day!

[Abyss108]

"I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with."

 

How did I pretend she said that men marginalize her opinion?  

 

Because her entire post was about how people assume girls like things for superficial reasons, not that anyone else had to like them. 

 

You seriously can't tell the difference between 

 

"I don't like this thing that you like" and "I don't like this thing that you like and thus think you could only like it for dumb reasons"?

 

You wrote several paragraphs about the first, when she posted the second.

 

Not to mention the fact that nowhere in her post did she say you were doing this, only in general.

[BansheeOwnage]

Relevant: 

Hahaha, that's awesome! Wow. Can't believe someone actually went through the trouble of making that. No, actually, I can.

 

My point was that Dorian's feelings toward Tevinter and Solas' feelings toward the Dalish/modern elves aren't the same. Dorian makes it clear that he considers Tevinter his homeland and its people his people, while Solas can't make it any clearer to Lavellan that the Dalish and modern elves are "NOT MY PEOPLE!"

But... what's so bad about that? Dorian spent his whole life in Tevinter, he's interacted with it and been a part of it. Solas has nothing in common with the Dalish except his ears, as he would say, and why does that matter? He's from a completely different culture, so why should he consider them his people? And much as I dislike Sera, she doesn't need to consider the other elves "her people" either.

 

And what does "your/my people" even mean, when you get down to it?

[BansheeOwnage]

I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with.

 

*snip*

 

For heaven's sake! Can't we like something because it's good? Can't we like a character because we find that character interesting, complex, engaging, enjoyable, or compelling? Because it's a great character, or a great story, or has great chemistry with the female PC, etc? Can't we like something because it has intellectual and artistic merit; not because of some banal reason you keep trying to configure into being?

 

I'm not saying there aren't women or girls out there who like things for superficial reasons. But, in general, if you something has a large female fanbase (from characters to movies to bands), instead of jumping to think, "It must be for a really stupid reason," maybe stop and consider that maybe there's something legitimate to like about it.

 

[Illyria]

I've noticed that whenever girls and women like something, the assumption is that it must be for mind-numbingly superficial reasons. And if girls and women like it at all, it must be because it's bad. She can't like it or appreciate it for its own quality, complex, or artistic merits. In fact, if it appeals to women at all it must not have any intellectual or artistic merits to begin with.

 

I think David Gaider summed it up best here:

 

 

 

 

In terms of video games, I noticed that people always look for reasons to trivialize and dismiss characters or romances that female players like.

 

I remember back before BioWare figured out how to write "nice guy" romance options that were also interesting and complex for the mainstream popular consciousness, so if there were romance options in video games gals tended to go for the "bad boy" because he tended to just be more interesting or better-written? (Casavir and Bishop from Neverwinter Nights 2 is a great example. Casavir is the noble, selfless paladin--and that's all there is to him. Bishop is the chaotic evil murderer and womanizer--but he was also interesting, complex, funny in a dark and twisted way, and shared some genuine chemistry with the female PC. ) Whenever female players admitted to liking the darker romance option, and everyone dismissed it as, "Oh, girls just like bad boys. They can't appreciate a nice guy."

 

Then, as of DAO, BioWare finally figured out how to write an interesting, complex, funny, compelling "nice guy" romances for the mainstream; and ever since then, BioWare's "nice guy" romances have almost always been more popular than the "bad boy" ones. DAO: Alistair was more popular than Zevran. ME2 and ME3: Garrus has been the most popular male LI. DA2: Many gals wished Varric had been a romance option instead of being stuck with just Broody 1 and Broody 2 Anders and Fenris (and annoying fundamentalist religious hypocrite Sebastian). DAI: I think Cullen was far and away more popularity than solemn Blackwall and BDSM Bull. But, once again, people find a way to spin it into a negative. "Oh, girls just want the generic Prince Charming type. They want a Knight In Shining Armor to fawn over them."

 

Funny thing about Solas, when the game first came out and Solas enjoyed an unexpected wave of popularity, the same peanut gallery that tended to say, "Girls just want a conventionally gorgeous male model" were conspicuously silent since Solas isn't conventionally attractive. And he's BALD! But then as word got around that he was the Dread Wolf, suddenly it was, "Oh, girls just like Solas because he's a GOD. They want to feel flattered that a GOD is fawning over them!" Now that his godhood has been disproven, suddenly it's, "It's all the mystique of the tragic love affair."

 

For heaven's sake! Can't we like something because it's good? Can't we like a character because we find that character interesting, complex, engaging, enjoyable, or compelling? Because it's a great character, or a great story, or has great chemistry with the female PC, etc? Can't we like something because it has intellectual and artistic merit; not because of some banal reason you keep trying to configure into being?

 

I'm not saying there aren't women or girls out there who like things for superficial reasons. But, in general, if you something has a large female fanbase (from characters to movies to bands), instead of jumping to think, "It must be for a really stupid reason," maybe stop and consider that maybe there's something legitimate to like about it.

 

I love this.

 

(disagree with you about Seb though)

 

I've been a part of the Solas fandom since before the game came out.  The (main) reason we liked him?  He looked interesting.  And he is.  He's well written and well acted.  He's both a hero and a villian.  He's kind, yet willing to do terrible things.  He's intelligent, yet so, so stupid.  He believes in keeping an open mind, yet he's so stubborn and set on his path.  He's both Solas and The Dread Wolf.  And the fact that he's a genuinely complex character, and probably the most important companion in DAI and his romance arc is aimed at the female PC instead of the male PC?  That's just awesome.

[nightscrawl]

No, it is focused on protagonist as much as it is on player. Why? Because there are multiple instances during banter when Inquisitor can chime in or address them directly; sometimes we can even pick a response. What's more, Inky can address thing they've heard through banter later in Skyhold - like in case of Dorian and Bull hooking together or Blackwall having a soft spot for Josephine. And we can only do that AFTER we heard enough banter.
 
So no - the banters are most certainly written to be at the very least overheard by Inky.

 
Yepper, I agree. One can't disregard the instances where the Inquisitor CAN interject just because it fits with their argument. Those instances are there, so clearly, the Inquisitor can hear the dialogue. Just because Bioware chose to limit those opportunities for interaction to a few specific instances doesn't mean that the Inquisitor doesn't absorb the information.
 
There are dialogue options in normal conversations I wish I could have, but don't. Similarly, there are times during banter when I wish I could interject, but can't. It's just how Bioware designed the game.

Also, you have to consider that it is probably difficult, from a development standpoint, to have involved conversations with more than two people. For most of the interjections, the Inquisitor throws out a remark and one of the NPCs has some sort of response, and that's all.

 

Solas has nothing in common with the Dalish except his ears, as he would say, and why does that matter? He's from a completely different culture, so why should he consider them his people? And much as I dislike Sera, she doesn't need to consider the other elves "her people" either.
 
And what does "your/my people" even mean, when you get down to it?

What is interesting about the Sera/Solas dynamic in DAI is that neither are "elfy" elves, so there is no outlet in the game for expressing surprise or wonderment at some of the elf lore reveals from that perspective. Does the elf Inquisitor get any unique lines for any of that stuff (beyond the gender gated romance specific stuff with Solas)? Hell, one of the more overt reactions comes from Dorian, a human, when he expresses surprise at Abelas's remarks. In fact, his entire dialogue at Skyhold acknowledging how significant the information is is something that I feel is probably lacking for the elf Inquisitor.
 
(I haven't played an elf, so I don't know for certain what they can or cannot say.)

[Secret Rare]

The idea is that he actually HAS wisdom, at least on certain topics. Like - we know for a fact that he knows more about things like spirits and esoteric magic or ancient past more than anyone else, not just because he's a Fade nerd, but because he was actually there. He knows this stuff, like not many in modern Thedas do. But at the same time he knows how the world is now - so nobody should really be surprised that when he finds people who don't just dismiss things as evil or unnatural outright and are willing to look past what their culture or experience says to actually learn something (from a person they don't know has experience he has on top of that) about the world he approves of their efforts. 

 

And on things he's uncertain of, he'd actually approve if Inky makes a good point - like when he asks after Redcliffe if the whole dark future wasn't just a trick of the Fade. Or in case of Wardens - he doesn't like them and he thinks they're foolish, but if Inky points out (during negative path scene) that so far they're the best tool against he Blight, guess what - he approves. What's more, it's not just Inky - when other companions make good points, he listens and agrees. Varric defends Wardens and Solas concedes that they indeed bought them some time. 

 

 I don't see him as wise rather knowledgeable which is not quite the same thing since Solas did not demonstrated to possess the quality of good judgment,one can't pretend to be wise and lose a somnaborium in the most naive way possible.

He did not know the modern world thus he killed Felassan for prejudice and in Trespasser it seems that he is still determined to destroy it which means that whatever experience he had with the Inquisition was not enough to change his mind.

As for the grey wardens whatever opinions he may have on them they did something vital while he only brought problems.

[midnight tea]

 

 I don't see him as wise rather knowledgeable which is not quite the same thing since Solas did not demonstrated to possess the quality of good judgment,one can't pretend to be wise and lose a somnaborium in the most naive way possible.

He did not know the modern world thus he killed Felassan for prejudice and in Trespasser it seems that he is still determined to destroy it which means that whatever experience he had with the Inquisition was not enough to change his mind.

 

You can't point to one mistake (albeit one with significant consequences) and just deem entirety of a character on that. Nobody is immune to mistakes, no matter how wise. Plus, we don't even know what was extent of knowledge Solas had on Corypheus when he led Venatori to the orb - he seems to have learned that Corypheus is more than a powerful Tevinter magister that leads Venatori from shadows during Inquisition. Before his reveal at Haven nobody seemed to have known what he really is. Plus, we know Solas is growing desperate, and when people are desperate chances to make mistakes grow exponentially.

 

Also - your point about Felassan makes no sense if you acknolwedge that Solas didn't change his course after his experience with Inquisition. Which I don't agree with, especially if Inky befriends or romances him - or even just has approval level above 0, because this is as much you need to get a redemption option. So he did indeed changed his mind on many things, which might have influenced his mission. Thing is that Solas leaving path he's been on for so long is not as simple "oh, I've changed my mind! You modern Thedosians and I? We're cool now. No hard feelings I hope?". He's spent thousands of years dedicated to his mission and apparently he still knows more what's coming than we do (he tells Varric that Wardens have indeed "bought us some time" - he counts himself into that). He tells befriended Iky that he'll treasure a chance to be wrong again... but again, we don't really know what he means, because we don't really know the details of his plans.

 

 

As for the grey wardens whatever opinions he may have on them they did something vital while he only brought problems.

 

If he spoke truth about Evanuris possibly destroying the whole world if he didn't intervene then you can't just say that "he brought only problems", because without him the Wardens wouldn't be there at all to do anything - since, you know, they wouldn't have a chance to exist, as probably a lot of other things. That's kinda vital.

[maia0407]

I love this.

(disagree with you about Seb though)

I've been a part of the Solas fandom since before the game came out. The (main) reason we liked him? He looked interesting. And he is. He's well written and well acted. He's both a hero and a villian. He's kind, yet willing to do terrible things. He's intelligent, yet so, so stupid. He believes in keeping an open mind, yet he's so stubborn and set on his path. He's both Solas and The Dread Wolf. And the fact that he's a genuinely complex character, and probably the most important companion in DAI and his romance arc is aimed at the female PC instead of the male PC? That's just awesome.

Yup, I dug Solas' bald egghead with the lovely lips when he was introduced pre-release. I wasn't a fan of his mountain man long johns though! Glad those were changed! The fact that he's got a smart professor vibe going for him was like catnip for me.

I've always been a sucker for the handsome intellectual though: Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard, Carl Sagan, young Richard Dawkins before he turned into a blathering jerk. I thought bald tortured Zathrian from Origins was cute as well and I really liked the bald doctor that we talked with at the hospital in ME3. I dunno, some bald guys are really cute for some reason.

ETA: forgot to mention Abelas!

[Secret Rare]

You can't point to one mistake (albeit one with significant consequences) and just deem entirety of a character on that. Nobody is immune to mistakes, no matter how wise. Plus, we don't even know what was extent of knowledge Solas had on Corypheus when he led Venatori to the orb - he seems to have learned that Corypheus is more than a powerful Tevinter magister that leads Venatori from shadows during Inquisition. Before his reveal at Haven nobody seemed to have known what he really is. Plus, we know Solas is growing desperate, and when people are desperate chances to make mistakes grow exponentially.

 

 

Having or showing faulty judgment or reasoning is not what it state and describe the nature,scope and meaning of Fen'harel.

Solas decided to follow his own path and all of his actions were not the fruit of a mistake they were all premeditated with full awareness and knowledge of all the risks and likely  consequences.