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[midnight tea]

Interesting...

 

"Outside of the Inquisition's inner circle, most people believe Abelas to be part of a delusional sect. Historians have deemed the Sentinels' arms and armors, which were bought back from the Arbor Wilds by Inquisition soldiers, of superb craftmanship, but don't believe any cloth or metal could have survived untarnished as long as Abelas claims." - Abelas, Trivia section on the Wikipedia. It cites World of Thedas vol. 2 as the information source.

"We are trapped. The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost, or why so many of their elders weep as they enter uthenera. The new ones are faithful to Mythal, but do not understand what she was in her fullness. Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.

I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down. I shed my name the day I began her service. I shed my new one again, now that she rests. I will only be known by the sorrow that cuts my heart." - Codex entry: Untranslatable Elven Writing

 

The part about being trapped could refer to the Veil and the change brought about on the world.

 

Not really sure if it is about the Veil. There are no mentions of its effects, like magic drying up. It seems to be something that happened after death of Mythal, since Abelas mentions that they must prepare for those who struck Mythal down, and we know now that those were the Evanuris - and even some random elves in Vir Dirthara noticed that after the Veil has gone up the gods went silent an unreachable. IMO this is a text from shortly before the Veil is up, and Abelas mourns the loss of something that connected them with their god... or something she gave them in return for their service/being one of her people? 

[Medhia_Nox]

Some of the codexs seem a bit screwy - because some of the information states that even in Uthenera - the ancient elves bodies eventually died. 

 

I mean - it's been 3000 years.  I think that qualifies as "eventually".  

============

 

Has anyone provided information about the artifacts that measure the Veil?  

Why did the ancient elves have artifacts for something that did not exist? 

[Addictress]

Some of the codexs seem a bit screwy - because some of the information states that even in Uthenera - the ancient elves bodies eventually died. 

 

I mean - it's been 3000 years.  I think that qualifies as "eventually".  

============

 

Has anyone provided information about the artifacts that measure the Veil?  

Why did the ancient elves have artifacts for something that did not exist? 

I thought the ancient elves still survived after the veil came up. Their cities and everything was destroyed, but there was a generation or two that was fresh from Arlathan (ruined as it was) who went on to Halamshiral, right? The same generation that discovered themselves aging.

That same generation could've built the veil-measuring artifacts. Elven knowledge was lost over time, but immediately after the veil, I imagine they still had a lot of knowledge.

[Addictress]

Also, the ancient elves immediately after the veil came up were probably very interested in this new veil themselves, and would want to monitor it just in case.

[midnight tea]

Some of the codexs seem a bit screwy - because some of the information states that even in Uthenera - the ancient elves bodies eventually died. 

 

I mean - it's been 3000 years.  I think that qualifies as "eventually".  

============

 

Some bodies eventually died. Some codices tell us that those capable of sustaining themselves with raw energy of the Fade can survive... well, judging from how long Solas was in Uthenera, one can survive in Uthenera for an indefinite period of time.

[German Soldier]

Some bodies eventually died. Some codices tell us that those capable of sustaining themselves with raw energy of the Fade can survive... well, judging from how long Solas was in Uthenera, one can survive in Uthenera for an indefinite period of time.

Uthenera as its own limits and if it is prolonged too much the subject die.

DAO codex mention some elder elves who were so bored by their life that went to sleep to never wake up and decided  to die in this way.

Solas said that it was his long sleep who weakened him if he would have prolonged it maybe he would have been dead.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Semi-canon since this story can't happen with Alistair dead

To be honest, I forgot Alistair could die. That does present a problem.

 

Strangely, I'm kind of reminded of Vaughn, who told my City Elf that he and other elves were just animals.

 

Solas is no better. And if some people weren't so attached to their Elf Twilight romance story, they'd see it this way.

Ugh, come on, you can do better than ad hominem attacks! Seriously, when people resort to trying to paint anyone who likes any aspect of Solas or just think he's complicated or interesting as some blind, silly, teenage fangirl who can't see reality because "they looove him" it really pisses me off (and as we've discussed in this thread, anything girls like must be bad ).

 

This is petty. I've never romanced Solas and don't plan to, and I don't even like Twilight. None of this has anything to do with either of those things, it's just about finding a character compelling, which is obviously some sort of grave personal offense to some people.

 

And for the record: Solas is nothing like Vaughan. He was the only person I ever murder-knifed, and I was playing a human.

[BansheeOwnage]

Interesting...

 

"Outside of the Inquisition's inner circle, most people believe Abelas to be part of a delusional sect. Historians have deemed the Sentinels' arms and armors, which were bought back from the Arbor Wilds by Inquisition soldiers, of superb craftmanship, but don't believe any cloth or metal could have survived untarnished as long as Abelas claims." - Abelas, Trivia section on the Wikipedia. It cites World of Thedas vol. 2 as the information source.

"We are trapped. The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost, or why so many of their elders weep as they enter uthenera. The new ones are faithful to Mythal, but do not understand what she was in her fullness. Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.

I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down. I shed my name the day I began her service. I shed my new one again, now that she rests. I will only be known by the sorrow that cuts my heart." - Codex entry: Untranslatable Elven Writing

 

The part about being trapped could refer to the Veil and the change brought about on the world.

The first part is an odd thing for a thedosian to say, considering dwarven arms and armour can be enchanted to last for hundreds of years and still be sharp/untarnished, if I recall correctly. So obviously that in itself is possible.

 

So Abelas is expecting to fight the Evanuris again? Interesting.

[midnight tea]

Uthenera as its own limits and if it is prolonged too much the subject die.

DAO codex mention some elder elves who were so bored by their life that went to sleep to never wake up and decided  to die in this way.

Solas said that it was his long sleep who weakened him if he would have prolonged it maybe he would have been dead.

 

Equivocation. "Uthenera has its limits and eventually ends with death" and "at one point or another some elders chose to die" are two different things.

 

And no - Solas said nothing about his slumber weakening him. In fact in Trespsser he said that he woke STILL weak. So Uthenera actually served to regenerate him (albeit very slowly) from either him trapping Evanuris or creating the Veil (probably both).

[Sah291]

But I like the romance story.

And DA2 Anders/Fenris is so much more Twilight (or so I've heard, I've never actually seen/read it). And I love that game and still liked both of those. Solas' one is less melodramatic and so probably better written though, if I had to choose.

[Xerrai]

Uthenera as its own limits and if it is prolonged too much the subject die.

DAO codex mention some elder elves who were so bored by their life that went to sleep to never wake up and decided  to die in this way.

Solas said that it was his long sleep who weakened him if he would have prolonged it maybe he would have been dead.

Actually it is very possible that is partially incorrect. We may not know that much about uthernera, but we do have bit of information that implies that not all elves who enter uthenera for extremely long periods of time die/never wake up.

 

Supposedly, while many elves required sustenance to be given or administered to their sleeping forms (presumably through servants/priests) not all elves required this. Some could sustain themselves completely on the energies of the fade itself (which might be Solas' case). The elves that "never awoke" might also fit into this category if their body is still in living condition, though it does imply that their consciousness either won't or can't return to it.

[German Soldier]

Equivocation. "Uthenera has its limits and eventually ends with death" and "at one point or another some elders chose to die" are two different things.

And no - Solas said nothing about his slumber weakening him. In fact in Trespsser he said that he woke STILL weak. So Uthenera actually served to regenerate him (albeit very slowly) from either him trapping Evanuris or creating the Veil (probably both).

OK then he was still weak because of his own trap.

[Almostfaceman]

Interesting...

 

"Outside of the Inquisition's inner circle, most people believe Abelas to be part of a delusional sect. Historians have deemed the Sentinels' arms and armors, which were bought back from the Arbor Wilds by Inquisition soldiers, of superb craftmanship, but don't believe any cloth or metal could have survived untarnished as long as Abelas claims." - Abelas, Trivia section on the Wikipedia. It cites World of Thedas vol. 2 as the information source.

"We are trapped. The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost, or why so many of their elders weep as they enter uthenera. The new ones are faithful to Mythal, but do not understand what she was in her fullness. Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.

I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down. I shed my name the day I began her service. I shed my new one again, now that she rests. I will only be known by the sorrow that cuts my heart." - Codex entry: Untranslatable Elven Writing

 

 

This is very interesting. I think it says several things. Just my take, I'm open to further evidence/ideas. 

 

1. "We are trapped." They are. Their duty to Mythal binds them to the Temple. They're not free to roam the earth, set up their own societies, or interact with the denizens of Thedas as they see fit. 

 

2.  "The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost." They've lost their glory as a society. They've lost a culture vast and ancient. They've lost their god and leader, Mythal, who cared for them. Who aided them. Who taught them. Who defended them against the Evanuris excesses.

 

They can also be experiencing some effects of the Veil. The Veil can experience "thinness" and have varying results with individuals, reducing or eliminating their conscious connection with the Fade.

 

The preservative results of the magic of the Temple if any, is unclear. Remarks about cloth and metal's survival hints at preservation as a benefit to existing within the Temple. Maintenance can only go so far in thwarting corrosion and/or wear and tear. 

 

The elves in the Temple do use uthenera. Uthenera wasn't a method for preserving the long life spans of elves, rather it was a method for elves tired of existence to take a break or slowly drift away from the sadness of life. It was also a method for exploring the Fade and gathering knowledge. This makes it unclear at best if they used uthenera for extending their life spans (because Veil) or for alleviating the boredom of existence (Veil mitigated by Temple magic/preservation) stuck in their Temple for thousands of years bound to duty. Boredom can drive a person insane. There still isn't enough evidence to support that uthenera succors immortality, so I lean more towards its use in the Temple to relieve boredom and probably exploration of the Fade.

 

There is no evidence that Temple elves die of old age. Abelas tells the Inquisitor that their numbers are dwindling due to repeated encounters defending the Temple. "Without the wise to lead them" is reference to Mythal. "The ones born here" indicates that there still exists ones that were not born in the Temple. No elves in the Temple are permitted to wither away in uthenera. They are under a geas to serve Mythal until they are released by Mythal or slain. Abelas says they are awoken to defend the Temple. 

 

3. "We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down". The Evanuris were very powerful. Solas mentions events that created oceans of blood. They either expect the return of the Evanuris eventually because they don't believe they can be trapped or gone forever (very likely) or ... this is a hint that Solas and Mythal working together had already discussed the possibility of the Veil. This knowledge could be in the Well, or passed down word-of-mouth/written stories. It's also possible that Solas left instruction to his forces before he raised the Veil, preparing them for his failure or an unforeseen collapse of the Veil and those forces spoke with those in the Temple some short time after the Veil was raised. 

[BansheeOwnage]

But I like the romance story.

And DA2 Anders/Fenris is so much more Twilight (or so I've heard, I've never actually seen/read it). And I love that game and still liked both of those. Solas' one is less melodramatic and so probably better written though, if I had to choose.

If this was directed at me, I apologize if my post implied that you shouldn't. That was not my intention. Go ahead, like the romance!    I was only trying to say 2 things:

 

1. The romance is not the only reason one could find Solas interesting or compelling.

2. People shouldn't resort to telling people that since they liked Solas' romance, they must not be able to reasonably assess his character.

[ModernAcademic]

The first part is an odd thing for a thedosian to say, considering dwarven arms and armour can be enchanted to last for hundreds of years and still be sharp/untarnished, if I recall correctly. So obviously that in itself is possible.

 

So Abelas is expecting to fight the Evanuris again? Interesting.

 

That's something I've been wondering as well ever since reading that Codex for the first time.

Well, the Evanuris made themselves immortal. But that's not just it.

 

Even trapped in the Beyond, they still interfered with Thedas and changed History. How did they do it?

Through the dragons that bore a piece of their soul. The ones the Magisters came to worship as Old Gods.

 

The Evanuris taught the Magisters almost everything they know, such as how to physically walk in the Fade. Remember, those were extremely powerful mages, capable of entering people's minds and controlling them. So it would be easy for them to communicate through the dragons. Their purpose must've been to lure the Magisters into their prison and use them to release them.

 

So, through indirect means, they exerted their will on this world. And in so doing, guided the evolution of the Tevinter Imperium, one of the most powerful empires after Arlathan and the cradle of civilisation after Arlathan's fall.

 

 

Which leads to the following answer: Abelas and the Sentinels must've watched centuries pass by and realized the Evanuris' influence through the worshipped dragons and the familiar magic the Magisters came to wield. So they prepared. And waited. 

[Medhia_Nox]

 I was actually saying it's (uthenera) a bit inconsistent for things like Abelas and the supposed ancient elven civilization living behind the mirrors (though, again, I'm not sure I've seen much evidence of this group aside from "Solas must be fighting for something and ancient elves in mirrors makes sense.".  

 

If they're all in Uthenera... it would be like the Protheans I wager.  

 

Solas might want to find out if they're not already all dead before he goes pressing his "End World" button... it wouldn't be a tragedy (ending the world and finding out the people he's trying to save... again... are already dead), because tragedies happen regardless of competence (and more often in the face of actual competency).  Blundering into misfortune isn't really tragedy.  

[DuckSoup]

1. All about the accent.
2. He's confident and self assured.
3. Hard to impress.
4. Huge nerd about the fade (which is both appealing and irritating).
5. Bit of an arse, tbh.
6. Accent, accent, accent!!!
7. Forcefulness.
... and so on...

I love and hate him. I can see why so many think he's awful, though.

[SkinVision]

 

 

Ugh, come on, you can do better than ad hominem attacks! Seriously, when people resort to trying to paint anyone who likes any aspect of Solas or just think he's complicated or interesting as some blind, silly, teenage fangirl who can't see reality because "they looove him" it really pisses me off (and as we've discussed in this thread, anything girls like must be bad ).

 

 

Yeah this is just silly. I'm currently doing the Solas romance and I don't even like it. Thinking about re-loading an earlier save and focusing on someone else. I got interested in Solas during my play through a male elf so absolutely not romance related. Anyway, I don't even know what I'm trying to prove Obviously it’s also ok to like Solas because of the romance. But it sure isn’t the only reason.

[SkinVision]

@Sah291:  Chances are he does mean the elves... but, it's interesting because he says this to Dorian.

 

Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more "innocent" than your own Tevinter in its time.
Solas: Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless.
Solas: If you wish to make amends for past transgressions, free the slaves of all races who live in Tevinter today.

 

Seems odd that he would be so obsessed with "fixing" what he's done... 

 

1)  It shows the wisdom of knowing that things change... which Trespasser does not. 

2)  It shows that he does NOT romanticize the ancient elves... 

3)  And it shows that he has a sense of the relevance for Thedas' modern times... which Trespasser does not.

 

"Something" about Solas is a total misdirection... it is interesting that he "was" a trickster... and is now considered a god of rebellion (I read that somewhere I'll have to find it)

 

I find this very interesting because it shows there are many contradictions between what Solas says and what people think he’s going to do in the next game and how they interpret Trespasser.

I think there are two ways this could go:

a) These are contradictions the writers didn’t notice or chose to purposely ignore in order to make Solas the next villain -> he’s going to be a pretty boring villain
b ) this is intentional and is going to be explained at some point, meaning the whole Solas story is going to be very interesting to say the least
 

[Qun00]

Lol, even if we pick very confrontational options he keeps himself open for questioning and gives the same answers and gives the same approval if you ask him about stuff, no matter how much you disagreed before. So... sorry, but what coddling? He's always willing to share his knowledge - with the exception of questions about himself I don't think his questioning about elves or stuff ever goes away, no matter if our approval with him hits rock bottom.

Heh, even more than that - on negative path you can totally discuss the matters of elves with him and depending on the answer he'd approve or disapprove. So... what coddling?

Also - he has harsh words about the Dalish, but it's hardly "your people are sh***". He's like Dorian in this respect - he criticizes his people a lot, but that's because he cares. And I don't hear anyone screaming "racist" or any other silly stuff when Dorian points out wrong things about Tevinter. Solas thinks the Dalish got many things wrong and that they're akin to children in many respects and you know what? He's right in that respect. Even his writer said in one of most recent reviews that one of things that can be said about Solas that he can be a jerk, but he's indeed right about quite a few things.

The mere fact that we can *talk* about it doesn't mean much. Even Vivienne has the option to discuss why she opposes mage freedom.

And I honestly don't know where this myth of same approval for agreeing/disagreeing with him comes from.

[midnight tea]

 

The mere fact that we can *talk* about it doesn't mean much. Even Vivienne has the option to discuss why she opposes mage freedom.

And I honestly don't know where this myth of same approval for agreeing/disagreeing with him comes from.

 

Of course it does. How they respond and react talks a lot about their character. With Vivienne, if you pick responses like "mages should be free" she will give you even Great Disapprovals (or Great Approvals if you agree with her. Fortunately she's reasonable enough to approve of some diplomatic answers as well, but it's rare). Solas hardly ever greatly disapproves - if he does, it usually when PC cuts discussion short.

[Xerrai]

The mere fact that we can *talk* about it doesn't mean much. Even Vivienne has the option to discuss why she opposes mage freedom.

And I honestly don't know where this myth of same approval for agreeing/disagreeing with him comes from.

Which "myth" are you referring to?

[Donquijote and 59 others]

I Have the feeling that Solas will meet his end in DA4 killed by the Evanuris of vengeance and then the new PC will have to deal with this new enemy while him and Mythal will try to kill  each other.

let us hope that the design of Elgar'nan is perfection i expect no less from the elitè of the elves.

[Patricia08]

I Have the feeling that Solas will meet his end in DA4 killed by the Evanuris of vengeance and then the new PC will have to deal with this new enemy while him and Mythal will try to kill  each other.

let us hope that the design of Elgar'nan is perfection i expect no less from the elitè of the elves.

 

I have said this before here on this forum but i only hope that when we all kill Solas ( maybe in DA 4 ) that it will be a plausible victory and not like with Corypheus in Inquisition. But what i have red here so far is that it will be implausible again when we all face Solas someday. 

 

Let's hope that Bioware does not make that mistake again. 

[Fylimar]

As a girl I have to answer the initial question with: I have no idea. Solas is an interesting character, but he is also very creepy imo. He prefers his spiritual dream world to the 'real' (for lack of a better word) world and spirits to living beings. Ad I tend to play rougish characters and they don't fit with Solas personality.

So I like him as a character, because he is complicated and mysterious, but as a woman I can safely say, that I'm not interested in romancing him.