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[midnight tea]

@midnight tea:  You can't be that obtuse to not know where Solas said that everyone is going to die... 

 

You can't be that obtuse to ignore that fact that this has NOT yet happened. Such a bizarre genocidal maniac, that Solas - saving the South from Qunari threat and Inquisition and its leader (even ones he dislikes), and arming them with enough knowledge to try and stop him.

 

 

I wrote a response and deleted it.  I don't entertain fanatics.  

 

Oh that's just precious, coming from a person who fanatically hates a character to a point that this hatred spills to real life 

[German Soldier]

 

 

 What if not just people he tries to save are doomed - what if everyone is doomed (Solas makes comments and hints in game as if something terrible is going to happen that is not related to his plans) 

Then it would be for the best if he spoke about those things instead of continuing on relying on mysteries.

"You know i know what's going to happen but i can't really tell you"

Is starting to become a classic of Dragon age.

[straykat]

But...that would be like real life - and I already have one of those. So, no thanks...I like my escapism. 

 

I'm not talking dreary work. I'm talking storywise.. You can still have escapism and fun activities, while presenting a steeper ladder to success. Games usually don't just entertain the idea of power in and of itself. And very few turn you into religious figures. If this is your idea of escape, then you'll have to escape from most things.

 

Hell, even the last DA game was merely billed "rise to power".

 

Secondly, they coudn't even write an interesting story about power. So even if you fast forward that way, I don't think it was all that. The pacing and mechanics don't blend well. Nor the villain.

[midnight tea]

 

Then it would be for the best if he spoke about those things instead of continuing on relying on mysteries.

"You know i know what's going to happen but i can't really tell you"

Is starting to become a classic of Dragon age.

 

But that's what makes it fun It's supposed to be a puzzle we get pieces of in each installment.

 

Plus, it would completely defeat the purpose of even creating DA4 if we knew exactly what to expect. There would be no tension. Right now all this speculation and guesses and thories and hypotheses and discussion is what keeps many people engaged with the universe. DA-verse is not like, say, the Elder Scrolls franchise (even if it has its own intriguing mysteries) where we can just put it back on shelf and let it gather dust, since each installment is a relatively self-contained story - and, even if it's not a direct continuation, each DA game is still a very close continuation of overarching storyline that binds all the chapters. And from what we can tell the next chapter will be indeed a very close - if not direct - continuation of DAI. So they can't just spill the beans 3 or 4 years before they release the next game OR make us either totally sympathize or hate characters like Solas or Flemeth.

[Sah291]

Hmm, things coming too easily to the Inquisitor was part of the reason why I liked the Solas romance. It humanized the Inquisitor and made their ending sader, as the Inquisitor experiences a loss/failure. The victory party feels hollow, and she is saved/defeated by the person she was closest to all along. That kind of story is more interesting to me. It gave the Quizzy some much needed character development.

[midnight tea]

I admit i didn't use him much throughout the game but, hell, he doesn't even approve of giving the Dalish the history The Inquisitor finds in the Emerald Graves.

 

Yet he's the one that suggests that we give it to them. If we take it with us, he's the one who says "Taven would like the Dalish to have it".

 

 

Plus, if we go with the dialogues he actually has with a "friend" Inquisitor, he actually mentions that s/he is the exception, almost unique, not the standard and he actually refers to every other person in The Inquisition/World as petty and horrible. Again, selective apathy

 

Yes, he calls Inquisitor unique, but given the unique situation they were put in AND if they manage to not forget about people and make intelligent decisions (because that's what gives us Solas approval: being generally kind to people and smart) they are indeed quite one of a kind (not to mention that it puts them in a somewhat similar position to that of Solas, making them his counterpart at the end of Trespasser). But that's not saying that Solas considers everyone else as petty and horrible. He will always greatly compliment Cassandra in banter - no matter of relationship with Inky - and in fact make a lot of positive comments about companions, depending on the outcome of some quests (if we save Chargers he becomes very warm towards Iron Bull). Even with Sera or Vivienne he sees positives - he compliments Sera for creatig and running Jennies and eventually relents on his suggestion on turning it into something bigger when she makes a good point. Vivienne he might greatly dislike (he indirectly compares her to Evanuris in a banter we get after conscripting mages), but he still recognizes her poise and intelligence.

 

So the Inquisitor is hardly the only person he either admires or likes. He may view them as unique for variety fo reasons, but they're hardly the only person they treat as a friend or, well, person. Even in playthroughs where Inky and Solas are enemies he makes a lot of comments that suggest that he indeed thinks of modern Thedosians as worthwhile people and he mourns or is angered by the hardships they go through.

 

 

 

The bolded part is kind of creepy By going back in time he would stop that pain from even existing, by killing everyone he would be..... killing everyone? Yeah, no pain either way..... but..... uh..... duh?  

 

But... how is wiping a person better from, well... wiping a person? Either way you effectively kill them. Plus, your assumption operates under presupposition that going back in time and wiping someone's existence is a painless process that leaves no traces behind. And we don't know yet whether that's true in DA setting. Alexius might have re-winded time in Redcliffe, but we do know that it came with a price - the rifts and time lensions that appeared spawned rifts, which eventually pulled more spirits to real world and twisted them into demons and Dorian tells us that the magic is so unstable that it threatened to unravel the world. And Alexius might have at best re-winded weeks or maybe months of time and did so very locally to a relatively small group of people. We have no idea what could happened if someone tried to do that on a large scale and wipe thousands of years of existence.

[Vanilka]

But that's what makes it fun It's supposed to be a puzzle we get pieces of in each installment.

 

Plus, it would completely defeat the purpose of even creating DA4 if we knew exactly what to expect. There would be no tension. Right now all this speculation and guesses and thories and hypotheses and discussion is what keeps many people engaged with the universe. DA-verse is not like, say, the Elder Scrolls franchise (even if it has its own intriguing mysteries) where we can just put it back on shelf and let it gather dust, since each installment is a relatively self-contained story - even if it's not a direct continuation, each DA game is still a very close continuation of overarching storyline that binds all the chapter. And from what we can tell the next chapter will be indeed a very close - if not direct - continuation of DAI. So they can't just spill the beans 3 or 4 years before they release the next game OR make us either totally sympathize or hate characters like Solas or Flemeth.

 

I must say I like reading the speculations around here. It keeps me on my toes.

 

When I reached the end of Trespasser for the first time, I wanted to jump at Solas' throat. Despite my Lavellan being his good friend before, high approval and all, I chose for her to tell him she would stop him no matter what because what the damn hell, Solas, and I half-expected him to let her die for that. He didn't somehow, even though it would be the practical thing to do to get her out of his way. That confused me. 

 

To be honest, I still want to jump at Solas' throat. (For story reasons. Good reasons.) But after reading through all of this... or most of this anyway, I do like the idea that the whole issue could be much more complicated than it first seemed. I'm not a very forgiving person when it comes to characters causing death, suffering and destruction. I admit I have a soft spot for the good guys and knights in shining amour and that reflects to my favourite characters and romances. I don't know if there's anything that can redeem Solas in my eyes. (I don't even think he needs to be redeemed at all costs because I'm all right with him being a villain.) But I like to believe there's more to it than Solas being a major a-hole, because that would simply be so much more interesting than him planning to destroy everything and everyone my Inquisitor loves just because he misses the traditional ancient elven biscuits.

[midnight tea]

I must say I like reading the speculations around here. It keeps me on my toes.

 

When I reached the end of Trespasser for the first time, I wanted to jump at Solas' throat. Despite my Lavellan being his good friend before, high approval and all, I chose for her to tell him she would stop him no matter what because what the damn hell, Solas, and I half-expected him to let her die for that. He didn't somehow, even though it would be the practical thing to do to get her out of his way. That confused me. 

 

To be honest, I still want to jump at Solas' throat. (For story reasons. Good reasons.) But after reading through all of this... or most of this anyway, I do like the idea that the whole issue could be much more complicated than it first seemed. I'm not a very forgiving person when it comes to characters causing death, suffering and destruction. I admit I have a soft spot for the good guys and knights in shining amour and that reflects to my favourite characters and romances. I don't know if there's anything that can redeem Solas in my eyes. (I don't even think he needs to be redeemed at all costs because I'm all right with him being a villain.) But I like to believe there's more to it than Solas being a major a-hole, because that would simply be so much more interesting than him planning to destroy everything and everyone my Inquisitor loves just because he misses the traditional ancient elven biscuits.

 

Haha, I have once suggested that perhaps he'd refrain from destroying the world if we give him enough frilly cakes He liked them well enough.

 

Anyway - it's true that one of the main reasons to see Solas a more complex characters is because it makes the story much more interesting. Making Solas a flat-out villain just makes it... meh. Seen it, done that. But I enjoyed what BW has done so far and after what the new lead writer has presented us with Trespasser I find it likely that I'll enjoy what they're going to present us with next. Personally I don't expect them to go full-fluff "love conquers all" or "we killed the bastard!" way. I sort of hope/expect many juicy reveals that will make Inkys/PCs on either path feel some sort of deep internal conflict and make us reel 

[Vanilka]

Haha, I have once suggested that perhaps he'd refrain from destroying the world if we give him enough frilly cakes He liked them well enough.

 

Heh, if there's anything that can prevent a world-ending war, it's definitely cakes. Also, puppies.
 

Anyway - it's true that one of the main reasons to see Solas a more complex characters is because it makes the story much more interesting. Making Solas a flat-out villain just makes it... meh. Seen it, done that. But I enjoyed what BW has done so far and after what the new lead writer has presented us with Trespasser I find it likely that I'll enjoy what they're going to present us with next. Personally I don't expect them to go full-fluff "love conquers all" or "we killed the bastard!" way. I sort of hope/expect many juicy reveals that will make Inkys/PCs on either path feel some sort of deep internal conflict and make us reel 

Agreed. I'd be all over that, too. Given the way Trespasser ended, I absolutely expect them to do something with all the potential they set up there. It would be such a waste not to. But, well, I'll wait and see. For the time being, I'll enjoy the speculations. 

 

I also admit I'm kind of morbidly curious about how the Sollavellan hell turns out in the end, even if I don't wish to directly participate in it. 

[Addictress]

Sometimes I make fun of this Solas romance and call it elven Twilight... but the truth is, most of the stories are like Twilight. Every Inquisitor is a Bella Swan, swept up in these big events, and people remark how you have that "something" that makes you special. Cullen does it too. Iron Bull sees it, but thinks you need to get away from it and humble yourself (regardless if you actually need to humble yourself). Cass is the Believer, but it doesn't get in the way too much, funnily.

But with Solas, it's more like Twilight because he's a timeless and mystical being.. much like vampires are. lol. And for someone like this to swoon over the Bella Swan of the story, there's a popularity to that. *I think*. That's my theory at least.


I wish there had been no Bella Swan in the first place though. The Inquisitor should have climbed up ranks and had a real job. Not simply be Special. I like games where you earn power more. Not games that are fascinated with the idea of empowerment..and get to the subject right away.

I don't like the inquisitor, it's dumb.

I swoon over Solas and and his hotness with or without the inquisitor there.

[midnight tea]

Heh, if there's anything that can prevent a world-ending war, it's definitely cakes. Also, puppies.

 

... Next thing we know Solas will reveal to us is that the cake was always a lie  !

 

 

Agreed. I'd be all over that, too. Given the way Trespasser ended, I absolutely expect them to do something with all the potential they set up there. It would be such a waste not to. But, well, I'll wait and see. For the time being, I'll enjoy the speculations. 

 

I also admit I'm kind of morbidly curious about how the Sollavellan hell turns out in the end, even if I don't wish to directly participate in it.  

 

I think most Solasmancers are morbidly curious, including myself I tried the romance after first PT just to see what it adds to the story and can't wait to see what we're going to get (though I'm curious about friendship/enemy route as well). Is it going to be relatively happy? Bittersweet? Sad? Disappointing? Anger inducing?

Truth be told, we don't really know now - we do know that Solas cares about his friend, and definitely cares about his lover, but circumstances might be stacked against them either way, even in best of scenarios. The way I see it the game is so open-ended that anything can happen, really, including such exotic scenarios as Inky turning into an endgame villain (that would be so cool, if we could have an optional route that turns former protag into a either a villain or perhaps someone who we can betray or they can betray us, oh plz BW, plz).

[myahele]

Best case scenario when the veil is torn down it won't result in a mass explosion killing everyone. And assuming he finds a means to keep the Evanuris and Forgotten ones locked up what could happen?

 

Probably demons and spirits will go to the unchanging world and those who don't know how to deal with them (or protect themselves) will probably die off.

[midnight tea]

Best case scenario when the veil is torn down it won't result in a mass explosion killing everyone. And assuming he finds a means to keep the Evanuris and Forgotten ones locked up what could happen?

 

Probably demons and spirits will go to the unchanging world and those who don't know how to deal with them (or protect themselves) will probably die off.

 

I kinda wonder if the Veil will indeed be torn, no matter of best/worst scenario occurring? We sort of can be certain that *something* will happen. Various mysterious characters (like Flemeth or Sandal) speak of great change coming... but while it indicates that Thedas will not stay the way we know it now, it may not really mean the Veil going down, hmmm....

[Almostfaceman]

I kinda wonder if the Veil will indeed be torn, no matter of best/worst scenario occurring? We sort of can be certain that *something* will happen. Various mysterious characters (like Flemeth or Sandal) speak of great change coming... but while it indicates that Thedas will not stay the way we know it now, it may not really mean the Veil going down, hmmm....

 

If the Veil doesn't get torn down, Mr. Weekes and I are going to sit down together over coffee (or tea?) and have a discussion about bravery and his lack of it. 

 

Just kidding. But c'mon. Don't play it safe Weekes. 

[midnight tea]

If the Veil doesn't get torn down, Mr. Weekes and I are going to sit down together over coffee (or tea?) and have a discussion about bravery and his lack of it. 

 

Just kidding. But c'mon. Don't play it safe Weekes. 

 

Well, it's not just 100% Weekes' decision. He probably has way more say than other writers and could potentially pitch in an idea that everybody in BW would be for, but the game like this is a team effort and not a vision of a single writer.

 

Besides - while intriguing and in some regards possibly justified (the Veil creates a lot of suffering on both sides of it) we don't even know if ripping of the Veil is indeed the best decision or even a necessary one. Perhaps, if there existed a way for changing the Veil itself, it would be a better world compared to both old world and modern Thedas. Flemeth tells us that a New Age will come - it may as well be some sort of new, hybrid or multidimensional world or something.

 

It's also very possible that DA4 will NOT end with the Veil being torn down, even if it's eventually the goal. The option for Solas' redemption tells us that we will attempt to "change his plans", not make him abandon them.

[nightscrawl]

Well, it's not just 100% Weekes' decision. He probably has way more say than other writers and could potentially pitch in an idea that everybody in BW would be for, but the game like this is a team effort and not a vision of a single writer.

Not only that, but you do have people like Mike Laidlaw and Mark Darrah that have final say. Maybe they don't think the franchise should go in whatever direction, or maybe leave such-and-such to be explored in a novel, or have that thing resolved in a future game (but not DA4), and so on. So everyone could think that Weekes's idea is really great and awesome, but it doesn't mean they will use it, or won't edit it, or pare it down into more manageable bite-sized chunks.

 

There is also the fact that a chunk of the plot and vision was created when David Gaider was still head writer and that material still exists. That's not to say it can't or might not be changed, but not all of the current material is sole the provenance of Weekes anyway.

[Almostfaceman]

Well, it's not just 100% Weekes' decision. 

 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought it was all in Mr. Weekes hands. I was trying to be pithy and humorous. I could have also said "the devs" but that would involve me buying a lot of coffee or tea... as I'm sure I'd have to bribe them somehow to talk to little old me. 

[midnight tea]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought it was all in Mr. Weekes hands. I was trying to be pithy and humorous. I could have also said "the devs" but that would involve me buying a lot of coffee or tea... as I'm sure I'd have to bribe them somehow to talk to little old me. 

 

... Well, I don't think you'd bribe Weekes with tea

[Almostfaceman]

... Well, I don't think you'd bribe Weekes with tea

 

Well, I'd also throw in a blueberry muffin, but would hold that back as a sweetener during haggling. 

[myahele]

As long as Dragon Age doesn't end with us given 3 choices:

 

1. Remove the veil

2. Keep the Veil

3. Merge Spirits and people together 

[Almostfaceman]

Haha, I have once suggested that perhaps he'd refrain from destroying the world if we give him enough frilly cakes He liked them well enough.

 

Anyway - it's true that one of the main reasons to see Solas a more complex characters is because it makes the story much more interesting. Making Solas a flat-out villain just makes it... meh. Seen it, done that. But I enjoyed what BW has done so far and after what the new lead writer has presented us with Trespasser I find it likely that I'll enjoy what they're going to present us with next. Personally I don't expect them to go full-fluff "love conquers all" or "we killed the bastard!" way. I sort of hope/expect many juicy reveals that will make Inkys/PCs on either path feel some sort of deep internal conflict and make us reel 

 

One would hope. It was what I was expecting for the end of the Mass Effect series and man did that fail.

 

But there was an interesting choice at the end of Baldur's Gate 2 Throne of Bhaal. They can do it. 

[German Soldier]

You can't be that obtuse to ignore that fact that this has NOT yet happened. Such a bizarre genocidal maniac, that Solas - saving the South from Qunari threat and Inquisition and its leader (even ones he dislikes), and arming them with enough knowledge to try and stop him.

 

 

 

Solas already destroyed a civilization and opened an hole into the sky who threatened the current civilization on a global scale.

He is the primary reason the Inquisitor was dying in the first place and you are mistaken if you think that he did that only for the kindness of his heart rather he did not want to put in alarm the south.

Save the south from the qunari?

He did that for the sake of his own agenda not for any sense of  heroism,the qunari discovered some of his spies and Solas needed them out of any possibility of interference thus he used the Inquisition to get rid of them.

[German Soldier]

As long as Dragon Age doesn't end with us given 3 choices:

 

1. Remove the veil

2. Keep the Veil

3. Merge Spirits and people together 

I don't like world-altering variables.

They make the world so divergent in terms of narrative that the franchise would mostly lose any sense of stability for the various players since Thedas would be something different at the player whims

[Bayonet Hipshot]

 

Solas already destroyed a civilization and opened an hole into the sky who threatened the current civilization on a global scale.

 

He is the primary reason the Inquisitor was dying in the first place and you are mistaken if you think that he did that only for the kindness of his heart rather he did not want to put in alarm the south.

 

Save the south from the qunari?

 

He did that for the sake of his own agenda not for any sense of  heroism,the qunari discovered some of his spies and Solas needed them out of any possibility of interference thus he used the Inquisition to get rid of them.

 

 

Its worse actually. Solas was perfectly happy to give away a device of immense magical power to a Tevinter human mage who is also an ancient Darkspawn, all because he was impatient and could not wait to gain back his powers more slowly. For a being that had lived for so long, that is incredibly sloppy and impatient.

Also, If the Qunari were not plotting anything, Solas would not have given a single f*ck about the Inquisitor dying. He only decided to meddle in the Winter Palace because his spies clashed with the Qunari's spies.

[Almostfaceman]

Its worse actually. Solas was perfectly happy to give away a device of immense magical power to a Tevinter human mage who is also an ancient Darkspawn, all because he was impatient and could not wait to gain back his powers more slowly. For a being that had lived for so long, that is incredibly sloppy and impatient.

Also, If the Qunari were not plotting anything, Solas would not have given a single f*ck about the Inquisitor dying. He only decided to meddle in the Winter Palace because his spies clashed with the Qunari's spies.

 

There are several problems with this statement. Let's go through them.

 

Solas, when he awakens, sees the world as sort of a bunch of tranquil, lessened beings. We can relate to this experience when we see our first Tranquil in Origins. Tranquil are people transformed into horrible mockeries. We also see a more illuminating situation with Anders in DA2. He has a friend he meets in the Chantry and the Tranquil "awakens" temporarily then begs to be killed. This nicely puts us in the "shoes" of Solas, so to speak. 

 

1. When he first awakens, it's logical Solas sees killing tranquil beings as humane. Any casualties in opening the orb beyond Corypheus is doing those beings a favor. 

 

Solas, when he awakens, is too weak to open his orb. So, he picks someone he considers abhorrent (and powerful enough) to open the orb. The audience can sympathize. There's really not much to like about Corypheus. From an elven perspective, he's part of a race that hasn't treated the elves too kindly. Living a long time doesn't give one the gift of prophecy. There is no way to take into consideration all contingencies. Saying it was a poor decision is far too easy to say with hindsight. 

 

2. It's a logical plan for Solas to try and kill 2 birds with one stone. He kills a disgusting Tevinter and gets his orb opened. The world is none the poorer. 

 

"Also, If the Qunari were not plotting anything, Solas would not have given a single f*ck about the Inquisitor dying." 

 

This is a purely hypothetical statement. There's no way to test the validity of the statement, "if the Qunari were not plotting anything". This makes it a purely useless statement in evaluating the measure of a character. What if's can go anywhere. 

 

"Solas would not have given a single frack about the Inquisitor dying." There is one way to test the empathy between Solas and the Inquisitor. That would be when Solas has the Inquisitor in his power, he doesn't kill the Inquisitor. Not only that, he saves the Inquisitor. 

 

3. The logic that there is no empathy between Inquisitor and Solas is contradicted by Solas preventing the Inquisitor from expiring, even when it doesn't serve the interest of Solas.