4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Almostfaceman]

I must have  imagined the point in which the Viddasala screamed Solas!

 

The Viddasala dies. Who are they going to tell, even if somehow they could get their petrified dead body out of the Crossroads somehow? 

[Almostfaceman]

 

He is the one who can close and open them that's enough to say that he controls them.

That he can use telepathy to control them at distance is entirely another thing.

 

 

Why? And why do you keep calling it telepathy? This universe has magic. 

[German Soldier]

Nonsense.  If there were no rules then we'd be seeing mages using actual magic wands.  Or even rings.  Magic wouldn't be organized into skill trees.  We'd be seeing mages saying "To heck with lyrium or blood.  I'm powering up using guacamole!"

facepalm so now you're using gameplay assets? like the skill tree organization?

 

Oh and tell me scientifically how does Flemeth foresee the future....i'm waiting really.

[Abyss108]

And yet, that is precisely what's gonna happen.

 

 

No.

[German Soldier]

The Viddasala dies. Who are they going to tell, even if somehow they could get their petrified dead body out of the Crossroads somehow? 

She scremaed Solas before to enter in the final eluvian in front of everyone.

 

Why? And why do you keep calling it telepathy? This universe has magic. 

How you define it then when someone can manipulate objects at distance without touching it(and without even see it),it seems pretty much telepathy  to me...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How you define it then when someone can manipulate objects at distance without touching it(and without even see it),it seems pretty much telepathy to me...

That's telekinesis, actually. Telepathy is being able to use your mind to communicate with another mind in a way that doesn't use the five senses.

[BansheeOwnage]

That's still a betrayal. The fact that he is showing the Inquisitor respect doesn't make it less of a betrayal. Enemies have shown respect for each other throughout history, yet that doesn't make them less of enemies. 

 

He spares you because he thinks your death will cause more chaos that could potentially interfere with his plans. He doesn't spare you for your benefit, but for his. He could care less about you personally, since you're still going to be wiped out with the rest of the world for his plans. 

 

As for Solas revealing his plans, let's face it he was revealing it to the players, not the Inquisitor. It was Bioware telling us where they were going with him. Solas, who has lied or spoken half-truths about practically everything in the time we've known him wouldn't suddenly be perfectly honest to us with the one subject that would best be kept secret. 

Betrayal is subjective of course, but I did clarify that I wasn't saying it wasn't a betrayal, just that he took steps to minimize the degree of the betrayal. And because it's subjective, I do think that him showing respect or admiration to the Inquisitor and trying to minimize their harm does make it "less" of a betrayal, in a sense.

 

I'm just going to have to disagree that Solas doesn't care about you personally (depending on the Inquisitor).

 

I agree that the conversation is largely meta, Bioware was revealing lore to the player. But I still think Solas had no reason to lie in that instance, and I explained what I thought his reasons for telling us were even if it can be seen as a stupid thing to do.

 

That's all we'll be able to see him as with us being a new protagonist. 

Agreed. Nothing the Inquisitor can explain to a new protagonist will be enough to give the new protagonist context, and the same experiences with Solas Quizzy had. Neither can something contrived like Solas destroying the new PC's village.

 

 

Regardless, there's little Bioware can do to make us as players disregard the experience we had in Inquisition/Trespasser.

Yes, to make the players disregard the experience. But a new PC won't have that experience, which I think is a huge disadvantage to possible storytelling and a waste of a fairly unique situation. I also don't think Bioware writing with the player in mind more than the protagonist is a good thing.

[German Soldier]

That's telekinesis, actually. Telepathy is being able to use your mind to communicate with another mind in a way that doesn't use the five senses.

Some "experts" said that these eluvian are living systems...

[Almostfaceman]

She scremaed Solas before to enter in the final eluvian in front of everyone.

 

How you define it then when someone can manipulate objects at distance without touching it(and without even see it),it seems pretty much telepathy to me...

 

Everyone in the Crossroads. That's controlled by Solas. If Solas kills the Inquisitor, he'll lock everyone else in the Crossroads. Everybody who hears the Viddasala talk about Solas follows her back into the Crossroads from the Darvaraad. Nothing the Viddasala said at that point will ever get out. Not to anybody outside who can investigate, except maybe the Qunari? But the Qunari aren't going to tell anyone in Thedas what's up.

 

How do I define it when someone can manipulate objects at a distance in a world with magic? That would be... magic. 

[Almostfaceman]

Some "experts" said that these eluvian are living systems...

 

Nobody's saying they're an expert. Just using logic. You still haven't provided a reason why Solas doesn't control the eluvians when he's claimed control of them. 

 

If somebody can escape the Crossroads without the say-so of Solas, then Solas doesn't have control. 

[Lezio]

Again - where do you get the information that "he didn't want to wait for his power to come back"?
 
And what makes you think that the power was even capable to coming back to him without devices like the orb, or sacrifices like Flemythal?
We have no information on this. In fact, the information that Solas gives us at the end of Trespasser was that for most of that time in Uthenera he was "unconscious" - as if, either the Veil creation or springing a trap on Evanuris left him drained to a point that he literally could not wake up, and possibly could not do anything other than very slowly regenerate. Then he tells us that he "woke still weak" - as if either he had to wake up still weak, or he didn't manage to regenerate enough over the years. What's more, Cole in Trespasser tells us that "He broke the dreams to stop old dreams from waking. The wolf chews his leg off to excape the trap".
 
This basically tells us that Solas had to sacrifice something of himself for his plan to work. This could be a very good reason why he needed external source of power, when he himself was recovering from in appears to be a very deep coma.
 
Also - how did you know he had no one else to give the Orb? We know that this is eventually a target he picked, out of desperation, a way to eliminate a dangerous group, power of magic or all of the above. We don't know if it was the only option left to him - in fact, events after Temple Of Mythal suggest that it was not, but for one reason or another Solas deems it too dangerous or tempting that he chooses Corypheus over it.
 
Dialogue with Viv after ToM:

Spoiler

Vivienne: I confess, Solas, I expected you to be back at the Temple of Mythal.
Vivienne: Some powerful magic yet remains there... if it can be trusted.
Solas: For once, we agree. Many relics were lost for good reason.
Vivienne: You explore the Fade to ferret out such secrets, do you not?
Solas: When I awaken each morning, all I have with me are those secrets.
Solas: The power at the Temple of Mythal is tangible, potent... and far too easy to misuse.
Vivienne: We are not so different after all, my dear apostate. We both believe magic must be limited safely.
Solas: Only a fool would ignore such a stark reminder of the destruction of an empire.
Solas: We may disagree on many things, Enchanter. But neither of us is a fool.
Vivienne: You are too kind.

 

Good sense makes me believe that he couldn't give the orb to anyone else, and also the fact that we don't really know of anyone, apart from Flemeth, with such a level of power. I like to think that if there was someone else to give the orb to than Solas would have done so, if nothing else because Corypheus is, as we all know, an unstable maniac, so giving him such power, even thinking that it would destroy him, is a pretty big risk regardless.

 

It's possible he wouldn't have been able to restore his powers in time, but i really don't think that is the case because of what you yourself quoted "woke still weak". Again, it's possible that the way they bound him weakened him so much he couldn't regain his power, but i don't really think that is the case.

And if that is that the case, then the stealing thing he did with "Mythal", his friend from what he says, at the end of the game becomes even more twisted

 

 

 

If the plan was to kill Corypheus - and we know that it was - you cannot state things like "uncaring attitude towards the damage Corypheus could have caused with it", because the issue would be literally taken care of the moment Cory tries to pry the Orb open. No matter how you try and spin it, eliminating a dangerous magister and his group of supremacist is a win-win for everyone... so long as the initial plan works of course.
 
It didn't, and we got the result we did, though ironically we eventually got the similar result - eventually Corypheus was eliminated as a threat.
 

 

He gave the orb to Cory because it was the only viable option and Solas specifically states in Trespasser that he expected Corypheus to die in the explosion. So yes, he knew there would be an explotion and he gave the orb to a blighted magister anyway because, to him, any innocent person who might have died was sacrificable. But then again, he wants to destroy the world(but feels all bad about it), so that's just expected.

 

A quote from him regarding the explotion "The plan was for Corypheus to unlock it, and for the resulting explosion to kill him"

 

His reasons were not altruistic, his reasons weren't good in anyway, he risked people's lives and probably wouldn't (and didn't) have cared about the people of the Conclave if Corypheus died like he was supposed to

 

 

a.) We've been through this already. Yes, Solas actually displays regret during his travels - but that he regrets all the hurt that was brought with the Veil is actually not a point against him.
 
b.) Solas is incredibly reserved and holds his emotions at a very tight leash: just because he doesn't display his regrets externally or or does so in a subdued way doesn't mean that he doesn't feel things. In fact, he addresses this point in the game in regards to elves: "So you attack me, not for failing to have some magical solution, but for not appearing to care? Which is it? Do you wish me to find a way to help elves, or do you wish me to cry, to prove my feelings?"
 
He rises quite a good point - just because he doesn't cry or laments things openly (but focuses on finding solution) doesn't mean he doesn't care. You have to keep in mind that Solas had not just spent an incredibly long time alone, but for thousands of years trying to avoid demons, while it appears that he was in a fairly vulnerable position after the draining effects of the Veil creation. And what does attract demons in the Fade? Feelings and emotions, or colorful outbursts of them. We know that he avoids them in the Fade because he explains so to Iron Bull. That means that he has a pretty exceptional control over his emotions - to see him display them you either have to closely listen to him, watch what he approves, scratch that surface or surprise him with a sudden and very emotionally draining situation (sudden death of his oldest friend from hands of ignorant mages, listening to Wardens' mad plan, wavering between duty and either tentative friendship he struck with Inky or falling in love with them).
 
c.) no, he did not know that the ritual - ritual that was disrupted I'd like to point out - would result with such explosion. How can I claim this? Because it has created the Breach. And Solas practically drops everything and rushes to try and fix it.
 

 

1) He shows regret his plan didn't work out, he doesn't show regret about the people at th Conclave or about what Corypheus did not even for a split second. As a matter of fact, the first emotion he shows post-Conclave is crazed rage/melanchony when he talks about a world where spirits can walk around freely.

 

2) See above. He's so in control that in the very first dialogues with the Inquisitor he is unable to hide his emotions regarding a merge of the walking world and the Fade. Hell, as you yourself point out the only emotions he ever feels in any game (so even in a non-romance one) are negative ones, rage, disgust, sadness (over his lost people), regret (over the detruction of the orb). Guy doesn't have a tight leash over his emotions, he just doesn't have much to show when it comes to the suffering he directly caused to Theodosians. Believe you me, if Cory had killed as many of his people as he did Theodosians Solas would have shown something

 

3) He knew there would be an explotion(see above), it's very possible the Breach is part of what went wrong with Cory's ritual. As i already stated, since his plan probably doesn't involve a literal tear between the world, but a merge between the two, he would have needed to deal with The Breach anyhow, and his best chances of doing that (and regaining the orb) laid with The Inquisition. He helped the Inquisition for his own reasons, not because he regretted what he did

 

 

 
What do you mean there was no evidence that something "bad" was supposed to happen? That something grand and terrible is coming has been hinted at ever since DAO (and I don't just mean the 5th Blight), and it's even more stark in Inquisition - even Morrigan exclaims in ToM: "There's a struggle to control the world's future path. Can you not see it? History haunts us, Inquisitor! It seeks to resurface. Corypheus is but first to arise!"
 
Also - how can you even seriously claim that Corypheus is "disgusted" with the Blight, when not only he's the original Darkspawn, but he readily uses it? The red lyrium he spreads? Blighted. The red magic he uses? Blight magic. What's more, we hear him him saying in Temple of Dumat (Calpernia's quest, after picking Templar route) that he heard that people accuse him of spreading 'the darkness', which he said they've found in Golden City - and then he said that they readily embraced it and let it permeate his beings to make them more powerful.
 
So no, Cory is not disgusted with Blight. He fully embraces it, even if he doesn't see himself as Darkspawn. Cory is disgusted with the world with no higher power - the Blights and everything that happens he attributes to the world without divine guidance and in his Blighted mind he sees himself as one. 
 
That is entirely different to the terror and disgust Solas feels towards the Blight. He's horrified with Wardens' plans. He explicitly states that the Blight is a real problem and it's not a power one smugly outsmarts. He hints at the problems in Elvenhan arising because the Evanuris thought the Blight is a form of ultimate power. It's hinted in Trespasser that his efforts were to try and stop it spreading. What's more, in an enemy route in PT it's very strongly implied that he himself thinks that it will remain a problem no matter of the results of his own plans (Inky: "So far the Wardens are our best solution against the Blight!" Solas: "If that's the truth then... let us hope otherwise. For all our sakes.")
 
Obviously Solas knows way more about the Blight than we do now and it terrifies him, in more ways that a shadow of future outpouring of Darkspawn terrifies modern Thedosians. It seems that he tried to fight it (or its spreading) in the past, and might be a large part of what he's doing now.
 

 

Erm, Solas himself is a relic of the past? He kind of want to destroy the world? Maybe there's something else, for now there's literally no one else but Solas that fills al the criteria.

 

I assume Corypheus is, in some way, disgusted by the Blight because he doesn't use the darkspawn when, as we know because of the Architect, he most likely would be able to do so. It's either disgust or pride.

 

Honestly, as i already stated many time, i trust Solas jsut as much as i trusted Loghain pre-Landsmeet. The only source of information from the ancient elves that i may actually trust is, funnily enough, Flemeth, and that is simply because she actually knows both this world and the one of the Evanuris, unlike Solas whom started plotting the destruction of Thedas before he even went to take a ****** after his uthenera

 

 

 

 
I don't see how a struggle against ancient horror and either making mistakes or desperate moves against it and a conflict that comes with it is a less fascinating story. Just because, say, it would turn out Solas ultimately tries to work towards a genuinely noble goal doesn't mean that the route he takes is the best one. Loghain also has different ideas how to fight the 5th Blight, didn't he? Warden also has different choices along the way - some better than others, some highly questionable. So is Inquisitor in fact, and there's no way of telling what large conflict they'd stand before, when they actually find out more about Solas' plans or ancient past?
 
How is it detrimental I just can't see. In fact it only makes the story more realistic and gripping. Indeed, it's an integral part of DA - you have a problem: how do you deal with it? How do you deal with it when you have limited options? What if you have to do something bad or questionable? What if there are sacrifices to be made? Do you make a quick, 'deal with the devil' type of decisions, or do you take time nd think - but what if you have no time?
 
And so on and so forth. THAT I ultimately find fascinating - and Solas turning out to be struggling in a deeply complex situation that we as PCs may get pulled into (in fact I'd say that we're already there) is infinitely more fascinating than "an uncaring ancient demi-god tries to destroy the world to restore his people and we have to stop him".

 

 

Because it would make Solas an idiot. If there was some ancient evil coming back from wherever he could have just said so, he didn't. Only thing he said is "I'll destroy the world and rebuild my people"
 

It must be said, though, that i would really be down for the rest of the Evanuris to come back, in some way, and teach good ol' Fen'Harel a lesson. It would probably mean bad things for Thedas, but i would really enjoy the look on his face.

 

Truth be told, for now i actually like the Evanuris more than i like the modern-day-Solas. At least they were honest in their cruelty

 

 

 

 
Eh, we've been through this multiple times, so I'll just address this: you keep repeating that he didn't care, but you give very little evidence for it - at this point it reached the point of turning into circular reasoning. He doesn't care, so he gave the orb to Cory - why does he gives the orb to Cory? Because he does not care.
 
Nevermind all the already cited evidence demonstrating that he, in fact, does care. And just because he considers people as "lesser" or "incomplete" or whatever doesn't mean that he doesn't care about them (also, 'd like to remind that Fen'Harel's revolt was a rebellion of slaves and 'little people') - in fact he states very clearly during Trespasser that he does what he does to try and restore what he thinks he robbed form all the 'lesser people', even if it comes with grave consequences. So: as terrible as his plan currently is and as much as it requires sacrifices, he is motivated by exactly what you try and deny - caring about people.
 
I mean, that in itself is an interesting paradox to examine, rather than just dismiss it as "not caring" - Inquisition has actually focused extensively on it, as it kept citing example after example of people and institutions that started with good intentions or were motivated by care, yet either things didn't go as planned or all the lofty ideals, or their execution, turned into something foul.
 
In their heart many of those people think they're doing something good, or were genuinely motivated as care - heck, in some cases, they indeed did something good, or beneficial or things that saved people, but as time passed on we see their legacy or actions take a darker turn. Andraste has led a revolt against Tevinter and led the slaves to fight against them, but eventually she posthumously jump-started a religion that oppresses people in many ways. Solas has created the Veil to save people from something dire, but the freedom he offered itself came with dire consequences. Mythal is hinted to be one of the founders of Evanuris and Solas tells us that she cared about her people, yet eventually she became a head of pantheon that did more harm than good. And so on and so forth.
 
So really - we have example of a person who is put in a deep internal struggle; he wants to do the right thing, but with the way things played out or his own decision it forces him to make decisions that hurt people, or portions of people. He wants to minimize losses, but at the same time there will always be sacrifices. We have this and many wonderful things we can examine and watch him struggle.. and you just want to cheapen his character by simplifying his motivations 

 

 

I already answered this with my prespective on things multiple times. He cares about his People, he gave Cory the orb knowing it would cause an explosion and in doing so endangered people, no matter how few he thought, and later doesn't show a slice of regret for those who died because of his whole plan because, again, he doesn't care about the same people, say, Sera cares about. His People, and everyone else in his way to restoring them is either lesser or expandable or both

 

I don't cheapen his motivations, i find them unacceptable (destroying a world because he, ultimately, feels he doesn't belong in the one he woke), self-fulfilling (his first plan, against the Evanuris, and his second, with Cory, didn't work out as intended, how the freak does he know this one will?), and immoral (for obvious reasons).

 

I understand the complexity of his character just fine, hell if he wasn't such a hypocrite i could have even liked him, but bad reasons and evil deeds remain such even if he feels conflicted about them
 

Lol, everything you state merely describes a person that appears to be in deep internal conflict, which is what this particular tiger likes best. I like all the things you said you dislike - I like the fact that Solas is put in a situation that makes him go against people who deem themselves gods, but to stop them he himself must become what he hates. I like see him wriggle in impossible dilemma where he wants to be fair to people and live and let live, but at the same time he's in a situation that directly oppose his principles, for variety of reasons. I like that he mourns the world lost, but at the same time he learns to slowly appreciate and open-up people in the new world, to a point where he readily jeopardizes his plans and allows the leader and protector of modern Thedosians learn of his schemes and work to stop him.
 
Your last point doesn't really make any sense though. Solas didn't yet came through with his plans - he tells you that he's about to kill, because he feels he has no choice and he pleads for a friend to stop or help him see another way, because he himself is lost in deep personal struggle. Like, he does a lot of what you say Loghain did; what he perceives as his duty pushes him on a road towards destruction and he's too broken and messed up to see the way off it and he asks the person he learned to appreciate to either destroy him or fight for people he doesn't really want to condemn. Again, that's not a point against Solas - that's a point for him.

Fight people who deem themselves gods? He fought those a long while ago, now he's already at the point where he's acting like them, and not to fight them. All he will fight against are people too weak to defend themselves, and he will play with their lifes, as he already did, just like the Evanuris did with his precious People, because he feels entitled to do so (which, again, makes me want to smack him since he claims to despise gods and yet acts exactly like he is one)

It's a point for Solas that, again, he will kill people and wants someone to stop him? I'm sorry, a mass murderer (wanna-be) with a conscience remains a mass-murderer to my eyes.
How many peopel died because of his orb, because of the Breach, and how many more will die before someone stops him? But eh, he doesn't really want to do, plus if someone shows to him that the world isn't so bad and that persons are persons, maybe he will even stop plotting to kill 'em all. Yeah, no, that's not point in his favor, at least not for me

 

But then again, as i already stated, i don't like hypocrisy and Solas is kind of a steaming pile of it

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How do I define it when someone can manipulate objects at a distance in a world with magic? That would be... magic. 

Telekinesis and telepathy are kinds of magic, so they aren't wrong by using such terminology. 

[Almostfaceman]

Telekinesis and telepathy are kinds of magic, so they aren't wrong by using such terminology. 

 

And they're not wrong by using the terminology "magic". 

[midnight tea]

Silly yes i remember to have used that word,blind no i don't remember.

Yes you're right that i'm unable to understand what kind of principles exist behind DA magic because there is none as such i cannot really understand of what they are trying to prove.

 

You're missing the point - someone comes, shares their opinion on the matter, completely neutrally and you jump at them and call them "silly" for no reason whatsoever other than own ignorance. That's not cool.

 

Just because you don't understand something doesn't let you dismiss someone;s opinion or argument as silly. And nobody will give you full charts that explain *exactly* how magic works, but we actually do indeed know principles for magic to work in Thedas. You yourself said that it's a stuff of dreams. It's all about memory, emotions and will, while at the same time it's a source of emotions and an integral part of sentient being's psyche (if we cut people from the Fade they become Tranquil). It can be steered by imagination. It has rules, and if those rules can be broken, it's under specific conditions.

 

The scientific method is the typical mode with which science proceeds to reach a knowledge of objective reality, reliable, verifiable and shareable.

 

... And in Thedas magic is part of reality. It has demonstrable, reliable, verifiable effects on the real world, therefore it naturally can be tested scientifically.

 

Art is also a matter of tastes and opinion you can't use the scientific method to categorize art.

 

Of course we can - and that's coming from someone who is an artist. Professionally. You will not be able to categorize art in 'artsy' way, but you can totally study art scientifically. After all, who do those tastes and opinions belong to? Humans. Can you study humans and what affects their tastes, opinions and emotions? OF COURSE you do!

 

And it's not just that - artists, including myself, benefit greatly from scientific studies. Psychology, sociology, study how color affects perception or what stimuli  can cause certain emotions or responses, etc - it is all totally beneficial for an artist to know. After all art is basically a way of people to express themselves and a 'science' of affecting other people on emotional or intellectual level. Can we scientifically study and determine what affects people? Yes, we can!

 

You're defining me as ignorant while pretending to use science to describe magic?

 

I'm describing you as ignorant because obviously you have no idea what I'm trying to explain to you, and then create silly strawmen to attack, instead of what I actually said. 

 

Uh magic of hedge mages manifest in a multitude of ways that cannot be standardized because there is no law bheind it.

 

Equivocation. Magic manifesting in different ways in hedge mages, doesn't means that there are no laws to magic. In fact - how is it that it doesn't manifest wildly in ALL mages, but just hedge mages who are not guided how magic is understood in Circles? If there were no rules or laws, there would be no distinction between Circle and hedge mages.

 

Then there are also unbreakable rules: no mage we know of can teleport on their own - they can only create an illusion of it. Then there's a fact that Solas, despite using  ancient magic and technically being a hedge mage, still uses the same principles to guide his magic - as exemplified by him discussing magic with Dorian or Vivienne or Inky.

 

Like, if there were no laws or rules to magic at all, how can they realistically discuss their techniques who reuire laws and principles to exist? HOW in fact different techniques do exist? Or how is it that blood magic makes it more difficult to enter the Fade? How is it that tea makes it more difficult to enter the Fade and some specific herbs make it easier?

Those, hon, are LAWS and RULES. If there were no it would be a complete free-for-all. The Qunari would never be able to use elaborate mathematical equations (which we find in Trespasser) to study and re-activate eluvians. There would be no "blood magic makes it more difficult to enter the Fade" and no way anyone could predict anything to a point of creating schools of magic that require certain techniques and principles to be known to use it, like shapeshifting.

 

Your example of the nightmare is totally ignorant.

-The nightmare grew stronger because it steal memories?How does memories convert in magical energy?Oh..you don't know... 

 

Helpless 'tu quoque!' much?

 

Just because we don't know something about certain things doesn't mean that we don't know anything, or enough to make a scientific observation. We don't know many things about quantum science yet - does it make less of a science? Of course it's a science. The fact that we don't know EVERYTHING about quarks, or Higgs boson or even frikking gravity (because we don't) doesn't change the fact that we know enough to make fully scientific prediction.

 

Same way the Nightmare - it doesn't matter if I don't know yet what exact process "converts it to magical energy" (actually we DO know, because every energy or memory in the Fade is already a magical energy) doesn't change the fact that we know that by stealing/eating memories to its domain the Nightmare becomes stronger. It's an in-game fact.

 

-Why a pride demon is more stonger than a desire demon?Oh...you don't know  

 

Actually we do know. Because Pride is highly intelligent and derives from powerful, rare spirits like Faith or Wisdom. It can therefore gain more from people they influence.

 

But again, it doesn't matter "why" - we know that they ARE. It's an established, in-game fact. From that point we can attempt and study the 'why's' because we have a consistent pattern of behavior or power level.

 

Observations is useless wihtout  understanding

 

Observations are a WAY to understand. You can't just "understand" - you have to make observations first. After they prove to be consistent you can start establishing things that lead to deeper and deeper understanding. This is how science works, dear. We make observations about gravity or water or cosmic rays or dreams or smiles - we test and prod and establish what is a fact or not - that leads to further understanding.

 

So really saying "observations is useless without understanding" is nothing more than you not understanding what you're talking about and getting all things backwards.

 

The iron bull side himself with the Viddasala at a certain point of Trespasser.

Before that the Inqusitor meet Solas he is with the Viddasala,no is not possible that the viddasla mentioned to Solas his former comrade Iron bull and told to him that he was working for her now,no is impossible is out of the realm of possibility.

"so much for nonsense on so many levels"

 

So in the middle of a fight during which Solas turns her whole division to Stone somehow she has time to remark - for no reason whatsoever - that Iron Bull turned on Inky; which btw. CLEARLY implies that Inquisitor didn't go to Daarvarad alone, because they've had - at the very least - Iron Bull nearby?

 

That's even more nonsense than before!

[midnight tea]

I must have  imagined the point in which the Viddasala screamed Solas!

 

Oh? Did she go to Winter Palace and screamed to everyone, instead of just Inquisitor and his small party? Inquisitor and small party she pretty much expected to die? And did so in Daarvarad, which Inquisitor has to go through TWO ELUVIANS to reach it from Winter Palace.

 

Oh, and let's not forget Solas's agents still infiltrating the Inquisition as well as a bunch of angry spirits Solas can send after anyone who survives and tries and cross his territory, which is totally what was happening to Qunari.

[German Soldier]

snip

-Something that can be "steered" by imagination to the point of fabricating reality from it by using the "ficitonal rules of the dream world" is not in any way something that pertains the scientifc method which is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena.

A phenomenon  is any thing which manifests itself also as "things that appear" or "experiences" for a sentient being,however such experience cannot convert itself  with the physical  directly( the demon who grow stronger by feeding on emotions, Flemeth who foresee the future-timeline ecc...)

 

-Magic of dragon age is all about empirical observation without the understanding

We clearly saw beings empowered by belief and belief is not in any way something that pertains science.

 

 

-Thank you for the reminder that you were an artist was something you already posted in the Blankfort section.

That science can  analyze human behavior or try to predict tastes and human bias doesn't mean that is able to define art as whole which also represent the expression  of human creativity skill and imagination,producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty and emotional power and also influenced by collective culture.

 

 

-The higgs mechanism belongs to the Standard Model it is not something independent from that model and  it work in sintony with mathematical and physical tools

 

Which laws?What rules and models are present for DA magic?

A set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing and conduct magic does not exsist.

 

Oh.... blood magic attract demons and it make diffcult to enter the fade! 

Needless to say  that i don't know why

i don't know why blood can convert to magical energy

i dont know why it attract demons

i don't know why it make more diffcult to pass the fade if it attracts demons

I don't have any clue or any possible theory to explain all of this other than is magic.

 

Mind you this is valid for every single spell you may wish to use as an example.

 

 

-Viddasala spoke with Solas and the PC only listened to a part of the conversation.

-And? that doesn't change that the other user was wrong when he said that Viddasala didn't mentioned Solas in front of the whole party,whole party that wasn't killed by Solas nor you have any proof to say Solas was aware of them.

 

[midnight tea]

Good sense makes me believe that he couldn't give the orb to anyone else, and also the fact that we don't really know of anyone, apart from Flemeth, with such a level of power. I like to think that if there was someone else to give the orb to than Solas would have done so, if nothing else because Corypheus is, as we all know, an unstable maniac, so giving him such power, even thinking that it would destroy him, is a pretty big risk regardless.

 

Practically everything in DA setting has an element of big risk to it. How much of a big risk you think was Flemeth saving Warden youngsters and handing them papers that would theoretically help them stop the 5th Blight? How much of a risk you think it was betting everything on Inquisitor to stop Corypheus or Viddasala? How much of a risk was it to pry open ancient eluvians to try and eliminate Southern leadership? How much of a risk it was actually to do anything we did in either DAO, or DA2 or Inquisition? 

 

It's ALL about risk and risky situations. And a plan to change the world most definitely relies on Solas taking big risks and gambles, no matter how long and hard he thought about it. It's inevitable - there's just no way that in a scenario where so much is stacked against him he could realistically predict everything - in fact, even with Corypheus' unforeseen immortality and ability to partially tap into Orb's power we cannot tell if things would ever go Corypheus' way if - by a giant cosmic coincidence - Inquisitor hadn't interrupted the ritual in its most crucial stage.

 

I'd also like to point out that in a scenario where indeed Solas has absolutely nobody else to give his orb to, your arguing about Solas not caring about people when he lets Venatori and Cory have the orb loses its bite. If he has no choice over the matter, and it's the only viable solution - especially that, at least in Solas mind, he does that to eventually benefit the world - the fact that Corypheus is a maniac and that explosion would kill someone else (even if it was supposed to be way smaller bodycount) takes a second seat to the fact that it's the only way he can accomplish what he set out to. Because what else was he supposed to do, *especially* if it indeed turns out that he, or the world, is indeed running out of time?

 

The rest is spoilered for length.

Spoiler

It's possible he wouldn't have been able to restore his powers in time, but i really don't think that is the case because of what you yourself quoted "woke still weak". Again, it's possible that the way they bound him weakened him so much he couldn't regain his power, but i don't really think that is the case.

And if that is that the case, then the stealing thing he did with "Mythal", his friend from what he says, at the end of the game becomes even more twisted

 

If you don't really think it's the case it's fine, but the hints and evidence I cited points us to a different direction.

 

Also... how does it become twisted? I'd like to point out that even after he's found out (in ToM) that Mythal endures he refrained to steal her power until he lost the orb. And that's not even mentioning that not only the post-epilogue scene is constructed in a way that suggests that Flemythal expected/agreed to give up her powers, we even know of existence of developer notes that mention her giving up her powers willingly to him, so long as her godhood is passed to Morrigan.

 

Whether it's true we'll see - for me however his anguish after the loss of the orb and during meeting of Mythal merely suggests that he may be even more desperate than he was before and is horrified with what has to be done.

 

He gave the orb to Cory because it was the only viable option and Solas specifically states in Trespasser that he expected Corypheus to die in the explosion. So yes, he knew there would be an explotion and he gave the orb to a blighted magister anyway because, to him, any innocent person who might have died was sacrificable. But then again, he wants to destroy the world(but feels all bad about it), so that's just expected.

 

Saying that he expected an explosion means little, because one explosion is not equal to other. We know Corypheus can be killed if exposed to much smaller force - I mean, Hawke's done it in Legacy DLC. The Architect also wasn't killed by mountain-leveling ka-boom. In fact we see that the the ka-boom that occurred in front of Temple Of Mythal after Corypheus tried to force it killed him too, and it was hardly as strong as the Conclave one.

 

And we most definitely can say that Solas didn't expect anything this big. His reaction to the Breach speaks volumes here.

 

His reasons were not altruistic, his reasons weren't good in anyway, he risked people's lives and probably wouldn't (and didn't) have cared about the people of the Conclave if Corypheus died like he was supposed to

 

Ok, let's assume, for argument's sake, that Solas knew exactly what would happen at the Conclave, in gruesome detail - I already explained why I think he didn't, but that's beside the point now: it's certainly a noble sentiment to always think about saving everyone, but in case of a messed us situation whee sacrificing a few thousands to save millions, or bring about balance to the whole world, we do know what is the logical choice. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". I think most of us accept that - as much as it tremendously sucks - sometimes it happens.

 

I mean, wouldn't you do it? In case there was no other choice, or time was running out or you were on a mission you thought is crucial for world's survival, or most people's survival in the long run? I mean.. wasn't there a mission in Mass Effect to sacrifice entire population or something?

In fact, unwitting as it was, what about the fact that if you choose one alliance (mages or templars) you sacrifice hundreds, if not thousands to slavery to Corypheus? It's not like Bioware hasn't done more or less unavoidable choices where many people die as a result.

 

1) He shows regret his plan didn't work out, he doesn't show regret about the people at th Conclave or about what Corypheus did not even for a split second. As a matter of fact, the first emotion he shows post-Conclave is crazed rage/melanchony when he talks about a world where spirits can walk around freely.

 

2) See above. He's so in control that in the very first dialogues with the Inquisitor he is unable to hide his emotions regarding a merge of the walking world and the Fade. Hell, as you yourself point out the only emotions he ever feels in any game (so even in a non-romance one) are negative ones, rage, disgust, sadness (over his lost people), regret (over the detruction of the orb). Guy doesn't have a tight leash over his emotions, he just doesn't have much to show when it comes to the suffering he directly caused to Theodosians. Believe you me, if Cory had killed as many of his people as he did Theodosians Solas would have shown something

 

3) He knew there would be an explotion(see above), it's very possible the Breach is part of what went wrong with Cory's ritual. As i already stated, since his plan probably doesn't involve a literal tear between the world, but a merge between the two, he would have needed to deal with The Breach anyhow, and his best chances of doing that (and regaining the orb) laid with The Inquisition. He helped the Inquisition for his own reasons, not because he regretted what he did

 

1). Where do you get stuff like "he shows regret that his plan didn't work out"? Where does he do it? In fact in Trespasser he tells Inquisitor the exact opposite - "Don' thank me, if it wasn't for my Orb, Corypheus wouldn't be as powerful".

 

Also - how was he supposed to visibly show regret after people of the Conclave without the game spoiling that he had something to do with it? Many companions don't really comment on it as well, so it would be doubly suspicious. Like I said before - Solas is an incredibly reserved person that hides a lot of his feelings. You have no better example of this than the banter after breaking up with romanced Lavellan, where his pain and regret resurface, only for him to hide it so deep that Cole loses track them in the midst of their examination (though Cole picks up on his pain or sadness several times in the game). Or what about the fact that Weekes stated that Solas most certainly broke down and cried during the romance, but we never see it?

 

Just because he doesn't visibly, publicly or ostentatiously laments something doesn't mean that he feels nothing. Most of the time he expresses his feelings in very subdued fashion, for variety of reasons that were mentioned and a few more - he calls the loss of life (be it Conclave, or poor Tranquil sacrificed for Oculara) a waste at one point or another. He remarks how hard people have or how affected they are by current or past crises several times. Like I said, with Solas it's important to pay attention to what he says. Because if you do, you can even hear a banter with Iron Bull where he explicitly states that he regrets killing even people he fights against: "We have fought living men, with loves and family! And all they could have been is lost."

 

... And you want to tell me that he doesn't feel, when he regrets even his own enemies, or people working for enemies?

 

Also - where do you get the crazed rage/melancholy? I call complete BS on that. He never does anything like it, or you exaggerate his reactions to ridiculous degree - and he muses about the world without a Veil ONLY if you directly ask him about it (what's more, when Inquisitor says that it would be amazing the first thing he says that such world also be dangerous), and that can happen any time in the game and is entirely dependent on Inquisitor. The crazed/melancholic Solas going on unprompted about Veilless world on the grave of Conclave victims simply doesn't exist.

 

2). Dude, this is another complete pile of BS. I never said anything like that, so don't put words in my mouth, or actually read what I said.

I absolutely never stated that he only feels negative emotions - I only said that one of ways to see emotions clearly you have to put him in emotionally draining situations, which are two very different things.

Also - since when "wavering between his duty and friendship/love he feels for Inquisitor" is a negative thing or anything close to "rage" or "disgust". Where does Soals rages in fact, other than lashing out after his friend died - and even *that* required just Inquisitor gently uttering his name for him to relent. You really want to tell me he has no leash over his emotions when he can do THAT? You really want to say that there's nothing to him, where Cole says that Solas is full of gentleness, acceptance, regret and sorrow? In fact... how is it that Cole befriends him anyway, when he's pretty much allergic to bad people?

 

Also - why should I 'believe you' about Cory? Like, where do you get this information from? I mean, aside from throwing thousands of his people to be slaughtered by Inquisition and sacrificing innocents left and right, we only see one time where Corypheus seems somewhat regretful, and that's only a brief thing over one of his lieutenants, mentioned in Samson's journal.

 

3). There's nothing above that proves that he knows about how devastating the explosion would be, so I don't know what I have to see there - other than you interpreting my words as something I completely did not say, while ignoring another half of it.

 

Plus... you make no sense. Like, I'm genuinely baffled. To merge both worlds Solas has to tear down the Veil, because it's the Veil that keeps the world separated from the Fade. We KNOW this! He even explicitly states that to us.

 

Also - the Breach is definitely a part of what went wrong with Cory's ritual. Thing is that what went wrong with Cory's ritual was an unexpectedly huge explosion, which is what has caused the Breach. Solas even tells us that at the very beginning of the game that to create tears in the Veil of this size enough magic has to be brought to bear - and there was only one thing to emanate that much energy at that time and it was the Orb.

So explain me this - since Veil is his creation and he knows that too much magic in one place can make a tear in it, which means problems for him, why would he give the Orb to Cory if he expected for the Orb to emanate enough energy to create the Breach? ...Which he later risks everything to close (and before you say that he perhaps could close it with the Orb - we see what happened to the Orb when Inky closes it at the end of DAI. It expends so much energy that it's destroyed).

This makes no sense. The only logical conclusion to this is that the Orb was never supposed to explode with such force in the first place.

 

Erm, Solas himself is a relic of the past? He kind of want to destroy the world? Maybe there's something else, for now there's literally no one else but Solas that fills al the criteria.

 

....Old Gods. Mythal. Evanuris, possibly. Mysterious Sentinel-looking like elves sporting red vallaslin and attacking people from Tirashan. The Architect (who can be alive). Other Ancient Magisters (who can still be alive). Spirit of Hakkon. The Whispers in Red Lyrium. Titans. Corrupted Titans. The Forbidden Ones. The Forgotten Ones. The Blight.

 

Really, you want to tell me that Solas is literally the only one who fills all the criteria? I am greatly amused.

 

I assume Corypheus is, in some way, disgusted by the Blight because he doesn't use the darkspawn when, as we know because of the Architect, he most likely would be able to do so. It's either disgust or pride.

 

Honestly, as i already stated many time, i trust Solas jsut as much as i trusted Loghain pre-Landsmeet. The only source of information from the ancient elves that i may actually trust is, funnily enough, Flemeth, and that is simply because she actually knows both this world and the one of the Evanuris, unlike Solas whom started plotting the destruction of Thedas before he even went to take a ****** after his uthenera

 

... Yet we have evidence to suspect that Flemeth gave up to Solas her powers willingly and in fact makes hints that the New Age (of which Inquisitor is the herald of, by her own assessment) is coming, and it's coming soon (since Morrigan is her Inheritor, according to OGB Kieran, and from what we know Morrigan ain't immortal). So you have an ancient demigod who is old friends with Solas and who possibly works to achieve same or similar goal.

 

Then there's Sandal's prophecy: "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."

 

Given what we know now it's hard to think that it refers to anything else other than things happening to the Veil and conscious connection to the Fade being restored to (all) people - and with Flemeth making comments and hints she does, she seems perfectly aware of that. In fact, as far as she or Sandal are concerned, they make it sound as if it's something to look forward to.

[midnight tea]

Part 2... Holy cow^^; Ahem.

 

Spoiler

Because it would make Solas an idiot. If there was some ancient evil coming back from wherever he could have just said so, he didn't. Only thing he said is "I'll destroy the world and rebuild my people"

 

No, he said "I'll save the elvhen people, even if this world must die". This is such a vague statement that we don't really know what exactly it means or how is it going to look like. We don't even know how literally we're supposed to take his statements. He 'destroyed the world of the elves' after all, didn't he? Yet it didn't mean the end of Thedas OR the elves, even if it meant the end of their civilization.

 

Plus, in order to even guarantee that 'his people' are going to survive anything that may befall Thedas, he has to restore them anyway, doesn't he?

 

It must be said, though, that i would really be down for the rest of the Evanuris to come back, in some way, and teach good ol' Fen'Harel a lesson. It would probably mean bad things for Thedas, but i would really enjoy the look on his face.

 

Truth be told, for now i actually like the Evanuris more than i like the modern-day-Solas. At least they were honest in their cruelty

 

... I wouldn't call enslaving entire population and falsely claiming to be gods has anything to do with honesty.

 

 

I already answered this with my prespective on things multiple times. He cares about his People, he gave Cory the orb knowing it would cause an explosion and in doing so endangered people, no matter how few he thought, and later doesn't show a slice of regret for those who died because of his whole plan because, again, he doesn't care about the same people, say, Sera cares about. His People, and everyone else in his way to restoring them is either lesser or expandable or both

 

No, what you said multiple times is that "he doesn't care" and you interpret everything he does like he didn't, while conveniently ignoring ample evidence I or others brought up to counter that claim. I'm sorry, but unlike you I don't just conveniently ignore all the comments he makes where he bemoans the state of the world and hardships that fall on people. The subtle sadness that he expresses through many of his banters and lines, encompassing far more regrets than just the loss of his Orb. How he sometimes reveals how passionate he is about topics like freedom for everyone. His humanizing moments with companions and how he slowly and tentatively befriends many of them. 

 

Of course, you may have not such perspective because you yourself admitted that you haven't really listened to him much. But that only proves that you have little basis to make your claims and they can be easily disproved. Sorry, but repeating "he doesn't care" thousands of time doesn't make it any more true, when we have lots of evidence in game that it's the exact opposite.

 

And if you don't believe the game (I've seen it happen), there are still the devs, with Patrick weekes underlining in pretty much every interview where he talks about Solas that there is definitely more to him than what you make him to be. Even in recent interview with Can't Talk media he says that he hopes that even people who don't particularly like him know deep inside that Solas is much smarter than "I will destroy the world for my people". He outright states that Solas is deeply emotionally conflicted about the whole thing.

 

And like... how are you going to explain the fact that you can pretty much max his approval just by being kind to people? The approval system doesn't lie - it's not built to lie. It's a fourth-wall-poking device for us to know how our companions really feel about certain things. And hardly any companion - not even 'little people' Sera or Cass or Varric - leaves so much approval for helping people than Solas.

 

I don't cheapen his motivations, i find them unacceptable (destroying a world because he, ultimately, feels he doesn't belong in the one he woke), self-fulfilling (his first plan, against the Evanuris, and his second, with Cory, didn't work out as intended, how the freak does he know this one will?), and immoral (for obvious reasons).

 

... Yet what you've just done is cheapen his motivations. Like, you wrote it all here black on white. You view him as a relatively simple villain. You even positively compared Cory to him once, for Pete's sake.

 

Fight people who deem themselves gods? He fought those a long while ago, now he's already at the point where he's acting like them, and not to fight them. All he will fight against are people too weak to defend themselves, and he will play with their lifes, as he already did, just like the Evanuris did with his precious People, because he feels entitled to do so (which, again, makes me want to smack him since he claims to despise gods and yet acts exactly like he is one)

It's a point for Solas that, again, he will kill people and wants someone to stop him? I'm sorry, a mass murderer (wanna-be) with a conscience remains a mass-murderer to my eyes.

How many peopel died because of his orb, because of the Breach, and how many more will die before someone stops him? But eh, he doesn't really want to do, plus if someone shows to him that the world isn't so bad and that persons are persons, maybe he will even stop plotting to kill 'em all. Yeah, no, that's not point in his favor, at least not for me

 

But then again, as i already stated, i don't like hypocrisy and Solas is kind of a steaming pile of it

 

That he fought them very long ago doesn't mean that the world still isn't suffering from what Evanuris have done to it. And if they screwed world so much that we can feel it thousands of years after they fell, how in the heck are we supposed to make it right again than try and fix it on a grand scale? Especially that the device he created to defeat them - the Veil that shrouds the entire world - is still up?

 

Also - it's not like the people didn't just kick the ass of another god-wannabe, ey? Thedas is struggling, but it's hardly defensless. And Solas even says at the end of Trespasser that he will withhold some information from Inky in order to not let them undo his plans, as of now (spoilers, obviously). So it's not what you describe it to be if his plans rely on one person not knowing enough to undo everything Solas works for, be it bad or good. That there are similarities between what he does and Evanuris, even if on a level of scale, hardly makes the situation identical.

 

Also, "mass-murderer wannabe' who wavers so badly he wants a friend to stop him/find a different solution that saves people =/= mass murderer. Solas has not yet gone through his plans, nor he wants to "mass murder" people for fickle reasons. In fact, there's a question whether he'd go through with plan A, which he explains in clinical fashion to Inky in Trespasser. If Inquisitor picks a response that basically sums to "I don't think you'd to that" Solas is visibly touched and meekly thanks Inquisitor for saying that.

 

And sorry, but the Breach is on Cory. He's the one who toyed with ancient magic indiscriminately and chose a high-profile sacrifice, most likely as a political statement, during a crowded summit. 

 

Also - admitting to doing something terrible and pretty much admitting to being lost and asking a friend to basically help him find a better solution hardly makes anyone a steaming pile of hypocrite. He's not blameless in that regard obviously, plus he's proud, he can't leave the cause behind, he thinks he has the answers and he has deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep trust issues, but he hardly strikes me as if hypocrisy is his worst offense.

[Ieldra]

After having browsed the last few pages, I must say I find it astonishing how some people are unwilling to accept that both good and bad traits (for whichever value of "good" and "bad") can exist in a person.

 

Solas has demonstrated his empathy unambiguously. That he ranks his desire to restore his people higher than empathy for the people of the present does not contradict that.

 

Solas was a rebel who led his people away from the domination of the Evanuris, and he's demonstrated his desire for people to be free, and his antagonism towards systems of control unambiguously. That he considers the people of the present lesser because of their limited connection to the spirit world does not contradict that.

 

Solas is both: a friend to all forms of life and an elvhen supremacist, a hero of the oppressed and a destroyer of worlds. I think it's a compelling combination, *way* more interesting than if he was simply "good" or "bad".

 

And for me personally, it's a characterization I can identify with to some degree. Had I power on Solas' level, most likely I'd find myself riding the fence between very similar extremes. Solas is a character you won't do justice by just "liking" or "disliking" him. Wherever you stand, there will be parts of him you might like and others you might not.

[Aren]

Magic require the suspension of disbelief and to suspend one's critical faculties in order to believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment since it is all about empirical observations.

 

I would dare to say that Solas also require the suspension of disbelief otherwise it would be near to impossible for me to enjoy his character,too much stupidity.

[midnight tea]

 

Magic require the suspension of disbelief and to suspend one's critical faculties in order to believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment since it is all about empirical observations.

 

Magic requires our suspension of disbelief, because - like every fiction - in our world magic doesn't exist. That is not true of Thedas. Nobody there with magical power has to "suspend their disbelief" to zap someone with lightning. And anyone who disbelieves can still be zapped with frikking lightning. That's as empirical and real as you can get.

 

What happens here is you basically conflate two things - you think that OUR scientific findings about the world would match exactly what we'd find in a world that is only superficially similar to ours, so anything that doesn't belong to our reality isn't 'real', and therefore 'magical' on a concept level.

We however don't have a demonstrably existing, fully magical realm to whom sentient beings who can dream are inherently attached to and who can shape the world with power of will alone if their connection to the Fade is strong enough - therefore, naturally, their scientific findings would be vastly different to ours and would totally include magic, since it's part of their reality. That doesn't make them any less scientific, so long as the method is the same.

[Aren]

After having browsed the last few pages, I must say I find it astonishing how some people are unwilling to accept that both good and bad traits (for whichever value of "good" and "bad") can exist in a person.

 

 

More likely those people genuinely believe that any sympathetic trait may be perceived from Solas is outright outweighed by his negative traits which i don't believe that necessitate a reminder.

 

 

Solas is both: a friend to all forms of life and an elvhen supremacist, a hero of the oppressed and a destroyer of worlds.

 

 

Allow me to perform an  arrangement of thy words 

"Solas is both: a friend to all forms of life  and a destroyer of worlds, an elvhen supremacist and hero of the oppressed  "

I perceive that as someone which is a walking contradiction

Magic requires suspension of disbelief, because - like every fiction - in our world magic doesn't exist. That is not true to Thedas. Nobody there with magical power has to "suspend their disbelief" 

 

 

How do you apply the Fälschungsmöglichkeit to magic?

You cannot because it cannot be applied to the fade which is a world of dreams as such you can't define magic as a form of science.

How many time you would try to convine others that magic is a form of science?It would be better to convey that we agree to disagree.

 

[Almostfaceman]

How do you apply the Fälschungsmöglichkeit to magic?

You cannot because it cannot be applied to the fade which is a world of dreams as such you can't define magic as a form of science.

How many time you would try to convine others that magic is a form of science?It would be better to convey that we agree to disagree.

 

Yeah, they didn't say that magic was a form of science. They said the scientific method could be applied to study some aspects of the magic of Thedas. 

 

See the difference?

[Ieldra]

Allow me to perform an  arrangement of thy words 

"Solas is both: a friend to all forms of life  and a destroyer of worlds, an elvhen supremacist and hero of the oppressed  "

I perceive that as someone which is a walking contradiction

No. it is a consequence of having a hierarchy of values, rather than one value to the exclusion of everything else. Most of us have such hierarchies of values: do you intervene in a neighbouring country to depose a cruel tyrant? if do you, you've started a war, if you don't, you haven't helped. What will you do? Justice and mercy are both virtues, but they often conflict. Where do you stand? All too often, if you vote for justice, some people will call you cruel, if you vote for mercy, others will call you soft.

 

One might argue that Solas's case is different because one side of the conflict isn't "good" in the traditional sense, but they can actually both be seen as "good": the natural state of the elvhen and the wellbeing and freedom of all intelligent life forms are both eminently desirable. However, just like in the above examples, bringing one to pass will adversely affect the other, unless we can find another way in the next DA game(s). For those elves who could be restored to immortaliy and innate magic, this good denied constitutes an evil just as clearly as the destruction of Thedas' civilizations (that's what I suppose it would be, rather than a literal "destruction of the world" - constitutes an evil for everone else. That we tend to take the side of the majority in cases like this is natural and reasonable, but by no means logically compelling. There is no contradiction. 

[Seraphim24]

I think they aiming for the "lovable dork" thing with Solas.