4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Lezio]

....

 

Honestly, i really want to answer all of your point one by one again, especially since i believe i may not have explained myself well enough for you to understand some of the things i stated (for example, i never compared Cory to Solas, and when i said "Believe you me, if Cory had killed as many of his people as he did Theodosians Solas would have shown something" i meant if Cory had killed as many of Solas' People, the latter would have shown something. In other words, Solas wouldn't have taken a risk if it was HIS OWN PEOPLE he saw putting in potential danger, no matter how small), but i think everything that could have been said on the matter has been said, at least from me.

 

I hold him accountable for his actions based on what ha has done and what we know at the moment, i believe the bad he's done and intends to do far ouweight the good and that the fact he feels conflicted doesn't excuse in any way, while you believe, basically, the opposite. It's incredibly possible i will answer this later (English is not my language so it takes me a fairly long while to write down my thought in a legible manner) because, as i said, i do find this discussion very interesting, but for now.... yeah 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ieldra:  We're not talking "likes puppies" (presumably good trait) and "secretly steals pens from the company supply closet". (presumably bad trait)

 

We're talking:  "gives a weapon of mass destruction to a psychotic monster for personal reasons" "intends to destroy the modern world for personal reasons" "withholds information that directly relates to the pain the main character is going through for personal reasons". 

 

You know very well my moral absolutism - and I don't really make excuses for it, but in the situation of Solas I don't entertain the concept of "Well, is there a silver lining to genocide?"  

 

If you can look past those "minor flaws" that's you.  

If you could, for a year, be given a debilitating experience that makes you suffer - and the person that gives it to you then manipulates you into thinking that experience should be used to serve noble ends - only to find out that the noble ends were really just him fixing his mistakes... then, well - "I" personally would think you're a masochist, but sure, I'll go with "noble and self-sacrificing".

 

And even his fans were "tricked" - otherwise, Trespasser wouldn't have been needed.  The only people not tricked, though still railroaded by his plot armor, were people who thought he was a delusional power tripping "just apostate".   Though only thing I was really tricked about... was the fact that he could actually do what he was talking about. 

 

For myself - some fairy tale about long lost lands is superfluous to his intentions.  

 

It's not different for me than mothership cults or end of the world cults or any other cult mentality.  A promise of something better and the "proof" are ruins of a civilization long lost.  It's like - for me - wanting to destroy the modern world to bring back Atlantis.  

 

You and I have danced this dance before of course - and though we differ, I greatly respect your disagreements. You know why "I" would destroy our real modern world - and I am backed by verifiable scientific evidence.  Ecosystems are collapsing across the globe... life, is what is important, not human life - there is no empirical statement that can be made to uplift one species over and entire planetary system.  And yet - I'm sure you would stop me if I had such an ability.  

 

What if there is no "other way"?  What if Solas means exactly what Solas says?  That he will make the people of the world suffer terribly so he can make a few thousands elves happy?  (and I'm being generous with a few thousand elves... all numbers on who he is doing this for are make believe) 

 

Is it the needs of the few that is so important?  

 

For you, having read your material, I suspect it is more your fascination with Thedosian magic and the prospect that everyone will get it.  

[Lezio]

@Ieldra:  We're not talking "likes puppies" (presumably good trait) and "secretly steals pens from the company supply closet". (presumably bad trait)

 

We're talking:  "gives a weapon of mass destruction to a psychotic monster for personal reasons" "intends to destroy the modern world for personal reasons" "withholds information that directly relates to the pain the main character is going through for personal reasons". 

 

You know very well my moral absolutism - and I don't really make excuses for it, but in the situation of Solas I don't entertain the concept of "Well, is there a silver lining to genocide?"

 

What if there is no "other way"?  What if Solas means exactly what Solas says?  That he will make the people of the world suffer terribly so he can make a few thousands elves happy?  (and I'm being generous with a few thousand elves... all numbers on who he is doing this for are make believe) 

 

 

This is, more or less, what i think, especially the parts i didn't cut

[nightscrawl]

What if there is no "other way"?  What if Solas means exactly what Solas says?  That he will make the people of the world suffer terribly so he can make a few thousands elves happy?  (and I'm being generous with a few thousand elves... all numbers on who he is doing this for are make believe) 
 
Is it the needs of the few that is so important?

It seems to me that it's more about fixing his mistake than anything else. He believes the world as it currently exists should not be and wants to remedy that. Of course, the problem is that the world has changed a great deal since his time and all of the people currently living (and for the past few thousand years) have no concept of what a world sans Veil would be like, even mages with an understanding of the Fade.

 

There is one investigate dialogue where you can ask about the Veil and he says to imagine this and that thing, and says, "That is what the world could be like without the Veil," as if it's the most wondrous thing ever. I'm sure to him it seems that way. My Inquisitor's reaction is basically, "Meh."

 

I wish there were an option between "We must save our friend from himself" and "We will stop him at any cost." The redeem (which I picked) sounds a bit too concerned with Solas. I want to show him why he's wrong, but I'll kill him if I must. I'd also like to express some anger over the whole Anchor thing.

[Medhia_Nox]

It seems to me that it's more about fixing his mistake than anything else. He believes the world as it currently exists should not be and wants to remedy that. Of course, the problem is that the world has changed a great deal since his time and all of the people currently living (and for the past few thousand years) have no concept of what a world sans Veil would be like, even mages with an understanding of the Fade.

 

There is one investigate dialogue where you can ask about the Veil and he says to imagine this and that thing, and says, "That is what the world could be like without the Veil," as if it's the most wondrous thing ever. I'm sure to him it seems that way. My Inquisitor's reaction is basically, "Meh."

 

I wish there were an option between "We must save our friend from himself" and "We will stop him at any cost." The redeem (which I picked) sounds a bit too concerned with Solas. I want to show him why he's wrong, but I'll kill him if I must. I'd also like to express some anger over the whole Anchor thing.

 

While my one Inquisitor would have - almost too happily - gone for: "Stop you at any cost." 

 

My new Lavellan is going to be pretty crushed by the revelation... he will also pick that response... but it's from a totally different place.  He will be pretty defeated at that moment... and angry... and terrified of the prospects Solas is suggesting.  

 

As for "what will be" - I still cannot trust any testimony Solas gives.  I feel that he shows throughout the game there is just so much he is wrong about and unfamiliar with.  I tend to like anyone I give authority to - actually be an authority on "something" - and I don't feel he is an authority on anything.  He admits that all his knowledge has led to failure time and again... and does not seem wise enough to realize that he should maybe not just blunder through the world causing devastation based on his whims.  

 

He also admits... several times... that the "truth" is maleable in the Fade.  And he has spent 3000 years in that distorted truth.  And since I don't give him the authority of "brilliant enough to sort out fact from fiction after 3000 years"  that's an issue for me regardless of whatever someone says out of game. 

 

So... anyway, as you said:  He believes he gets to decide what "should be".  I don't.  For me - there's little more to Solas than that. 

[Ieldra]

If you can look past those "minor flaws" that's you.

I'm not ignoring them. I'm saying he's a compelling character, not necessarily a likeable one. And that he's compelling doesn't mean I'd like to go along with him.  
 

It's not different for me than mothership cults or end of the world cults or any other cult mentality.  A promise of something better and the "proof" are ruins of a civilization long lost.  It's like - for me - wanting to destroy the modern world to bring back Atlantis.

Atlantis is a legend. Elvhenan was real. Even so, one possible *thematic* aspect of Solas' plans is a romantic one, and I'm not a romantic, at least, not in this sense. We'll see how the DA team handles this in the next game.  
 

You and I have danced this dance before of course - and though we differ, I greatly respect your disagreements. You know why "I" would destroy our real modern world - and I am backed by verifiable scientific evidence.  Ecosystems are collapsing across the globe... life, is what is important, not human life - there is no empirical statement that can be made to uplift one species over and entire planetary system.  And yet - I'm sure you would stop me if I had such an ability.

Would I? I'm not so sure, even though my rationale would be more pragmatic than yours: we can't survive at the expense of our planet. I wouldn't extinguish the human species though, because I have no reason to believe that what comes to arise after is any better: the very traits that made us the dominant species on Earth may as well prove our doom, and if there's a way out of the vicious cycle, future civilizations have to learn from the mistakes of the past.  
 

What if there is no "other way"?  What if Solas means exactly what Solas says?  That he will make the people of the world suffer terribly so he can make a few thousands elves happy?  (and I'm being generous with a few thousand elves... all numbers on who he is doing this for are make believe) 
 
Is it the needs of the few that is so important?

Perhaps you overlooked that I'm not defending his plans. I'm not planning for my future characters to go along with them. I do wish that the world could have the elvhen restored without the fallout, so I have some sympathy for his goals. There is....regret that I can't justfy going along.    
 

For you, having read your material, I suspect it is more your fascination with Thedosian magic and the prospect that everyone will get it.

There is that, but it's also that I admire people with visions, people who look at the big picture and attempt to do something about it, and I admire that they think big if their goals are more than "I want more X", even if I dislike their methods.

If this sounds conflicted, that's what it is. I'm not even sure I'd like the world he's trying to create, but there are compelling aspects about it. On the other hand, it is a restoration of the past, and I've always been more interested in the future.

With that said, I'll argue against painting Solas as the incarnation of evil as some people here are determined to do, but also against ignoring his darker side. Personal love is neither excuse nor justification.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Ieldra:  Elvhenan was real... and by his own account it was full of a handful of obscenely powerful beings who ruled over all elves, slaughtered Titans and dwarves and "potentially" created the darkspawn but certainly unleashed something so terrifying that "gods" panicked and collapsed the tunnels.

 

And he wants to make the possibility of that forming again...

 

Intelligence is having knowledge.  Wisdom is knowing what to do with it.  

 

There is nothing, to me, at all wise about Solas.  He doesn't see the "big picture" in my opinion.  He doesn't see that the environment that allowed six beings to control everything was destroyed... and nobody has ever had the power again... but he wants to bring it back.  

He's so shortsighted that he hasn't even dealt with the Evanuris yet... forget about five hundred years after his plan... when six MORE ultimate beings pop up and start the cycle again.  

 

To me the "big picture" isn't viewed through rose colored glasses. 

 

How many times does this single elf get to ruin the world? 

 

He's less accurate then most meterologists. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

@Ieldra:  Elvhenan was real... and by his own account it was full of a handful of obscenely powerful beings who ruled over all elves, slaughtered Titans and dwarves and "potentially" created the darkspawn but certainly unleashed something so terrifying that "gods" panicked and collapsed the tunnels.

 

And he wants to make the possibility of that forming again...

 

Intelligence is having knowledge.  Wisdom is knowing what to do with it.  

 

There is nothing, to me, at all wise about Solas.  He doesn't see the "big picture" in my opinion.  He doesn't see that the environment that allowed six beings to control everything was destroyed... and nobody has ever had the power again... but he wants to bring it back.  

He's so shortsighted that he hasn't even dealt with the Evanuris yet... forget about five hundred years after his plan... when six MORE ultimate beings pop up and start the cycle again.  

 

To me the "big picture" isn't viewed through rose colored glasses. 

 

How many times does this single elf get to ruin the world? 

 

He's less accurate then most meterologists. 

 

In D&D terms, Solas would have an Intelligence score of 18 or above whereas he would have a Wisdom score of 10,11 or below.

 

I believe I mentioned somewhere that Solas is in many ways like Dr. Frankenstein. Just because you have the knowledge to create life from dead body parts doesn't mean you should do it. Likewise, just because you know a lot about the Fade and the Veil doesn't mean you should just create the Veil / join up the Veil and then decide to destroy the Veil or deactivate the Veil on a whim.

 

Solas in Ancient Elvhenan:-

 

 

Solas after waking up from Uthenara:-

 

[Lezio]

I just started Trespasser and Cole basically summarized why i dislike (very much) Solas:

 

"His friend had to die, because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad Wolf's Jaw"

 

Solas more than likely killed one of his friends, probably Felasan from the Masked Empire, because he(the friend) thought the modern day people were, well, people. But he's sad about it so all's forgiven.

 

Gosh, the more i find out about the guy the more i dislike him

[midnight tea]

How do you apply the Fälschungsmöglichkeit to magic?

You cannot because it cannot be applied to the fade which is a world of dreams as such you can't define magic as a form of science.

How many time you would try to convine others that magic is a form of science?It would be better to convey that we agree to disagree.

 

You're going to have to go in detail what "Fälschungsmöglichkeit" is, because even Google has problem finding what it is.

 

Also - you're completely confusing things. I mean, aside from being guilty of what I described before (conflating our world with world of Thedas, which is different to ours and where magic is demonstrably real) you also seem to be thinking that "science" is some sort of category of reality - like where all the physical things and phenomenons that are described or explained by science are, ultimately', 'science'.

 

But that's a kindergarten understanding of science. Science is not a category of reality - it's our way of knowing reality. A tool. "Scientia", from which the word 'science' derives, literally means "knowledge". It is, by dictionary definition, "a field of study concerned with discovering and describing the world around us by observing and experimenting." 

 

Is magic in Thedas part of empirical reality? Yes, there's evidence of magic existing beyond any reasonable doubt.

Can you observe and experiment with magic in Thedas? Of course you do.

Can you discover things about magic in Thedas? Absolutely.

Can you describe magic and what it does or its effects? YES!

Can you create predictable models and consistent, testable results (spells, enchantments, rituals, summoning circles, magical techniques, etc)? By all means yes.

 

Therefore magic - if it's part of the world like in case of Thedas - naturally can be part of scientific inquiry. The knowledge and understanding of magic can be based on scientific method; it's just that their finding would be different to ours. In fact this is what was happening in Elvenhan, based on many codexes we find in Vir Dirthara. And even Solas, a Fade-Nerd and Dreamer Extraordinaire, says that to extrapolate truth from the Fade you need logic and reason and generally displays a very scientific mindset.

 

Like... because Fade is a 'stuff of dreams' hardly means anything - it only sounds as if you thinks that dreams can't be studied scientifically for some reason. Thing is that they ARE and the fact that they can be deeply 'symbolic' means little, because that symbolism is still determined by the way our brain is built or has been shaped, and therefore can be studied. It's not 'magic' by any means. Neither are rainbows, or lightning or air, which at one point or another were thought to be "magical". They can all be studied or described scientifically, without losing anything.

 

The problem with your reasoning is that you seem to think of "magic" the way we think of - as a concept that is useless when you try and apply it to most fantasy worlds. Nowadays we generally think of "magic" here as anything that is not confirmed/yet to be confirmed by science - which, if you think about it, is not only extremely limiting, but almost incoherent. It's basically like calling non-smoking a habit and NOT collecting stamps a hobby. A vacuum. A wishful thinking. A category of things we want to be real, or simply don't understand, even if it turns out that many of those things we don't understand can be easily explained by science.

 

But magic in most fantasy world, as well in Thedas, is not just some form of wishful thinking, or a way to describe things people don't understand - it's a real, palpable force in the world, on the same level as (and sometimes stronger than) gravity or electromagnetism. It's real and true, even if what's "real" in Thedas can be overridden by a powerful enough will. So yes, you can totally apply scientific method to it and understand magic that way.

[midnight tea]

Solas in Ancient Elvhenan:-

 

 

Solas after waking up from Uthenara:-

 

 

It's a complete and utter oversimplification. And the Joker comparisons miss the mark so badly it's actually amusing - especially the Nolan's Joker, who is established to be a person who just wants to see the world burn, while Solas has completely opposite motivations. He, in this case, is like Batman - a man who wants to stop the people who want to burn the world for no reason or for more power. He didn't just wake up one day and decided that he wants to rebel against Evanuris or crate the Veil for no reason other than either sating his rebellious streak, or prove the dark or chaotic nature of humans or just for own amusement - he created the Veil to save the world from complete annihilation. 

 

That also means that he doesn't have to love his own creation - in fact he might be repulsed by it (Inky: "But you love the Fade - why would you crate the Veil to push it away?" Solas: "Because every other alternative was worse") and will eventually seek to destroy it, if it either served its purpose, or served its purpose but also turned out to be detrimental for people he tried to save.

 

There's no logical dissonance here; no chaos really. This is what is interesting about Solas - his actions seem chaotic on superficial level, while he actually is the one who fights the prospect of utter chaos, or at least tries to. He rebelled, but he rebelled to actually uphold existence - as in: the entirety of it - rather than destroy it.

[German Soldier]

@Ieldra:  We're not talking "likes puppies" (presumably good trait) and "secretly steals pens from the company supply closet". (presumably bad trait)

 

We're talking:  "gives a weapon of mass destruction to a psychotic monster for personal reasons" "intends to destroy the modern world for personal reasons" "withholds information that directly relates to the pain the main character is going through for personal reasons". 

 

You know very well my moral absolutism - and I don't really make excuses for it, but in the situation of Solas I don't entertain the concept of "Well, is there a silver lining to genocide?"  

 

If you can look past those "minor flaws" that's you.  
 

@leldra was more than willing to condone Corypheus and his inner circle of friends and the whole cycle of destruction they brought upon the world is not really a surprise the lack of issues for Solas.

 

Because they saw the big picture.....because they had "aspirations"

[Medhia_Nox]

Each Thedosian's experience with magic is a unique one... it is natural Thedosian law in conjunction with imbued meaning. 

 

Science cannot give value or imbue anything with meaning.   

 

The natural laws exist regardless of how much you believe a sword is a sword... (DA:O - Valor) 

[midnight tea]

I just started Trespasser and Cole basically summarized why i dislike (very much) Solas:

 

"His friend had to die, because he thought they were people. A slow arrow breaks in the sad Wolf's Jaw"

 

Solas more than likely killed one of his friends, probably Felasan from the Masked Empire, because he(the friend) thought the modern day people were, well, people. But he's sad about it so all's forgiven.

 

Gosh, the more i find out about the guy the more i dislike him

 

Who said that it's all forgiven? 

 

See, you're doing it again - you find every bit of information and creatively interpret it to make Solas look the way you want him to. Nevermind that that Solas keeps underlining how he will pay the ultimate price for his actions (no matter if he changes his mind about people or not), nevermind that - if non-romanced elf Inquisitor says that they want to join him, because they'd give their life to restore elvhen people Solas says "Would you give life of every friend you have ever known? There is no glory here, only a price I alone will pay", nevermind that when Inky accuses that he never cared about them, befriended Solas sadly remarks "You were people and you deserved better... like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another".

 

Sounds to me that there's quite a lot of self-awareness here and desire to be punished. Just because he killed Felassan before he experienced Thedosians on his own only shows his personal journey in this regard.

[Lezio]

Who said that it's all forgiven? 

 

See, you're doing it again - you find every bit of information and creatively interpret it to make Solas look the way you want him to. Nevermind that that Solas keeps underlining how he will pay the ultimate price for his actions (no matter if he changes his mind about people or not), nevermind that - if non-romanced elf Inquisitor says that they want to join him, because they'd give their life to restore elvhen people Solas says "Would you give life of every friend you have ever known? There is no glory here, only a price I alone will pay", nevermind that when Inky accuses that he never cared about them, befriended Solas sadly remarks "You were people and you deserved better... like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another".

 

Sounds to me that there's quite a lot of self-awareness here and desire to be punished. Just because he killed Felassan before he experienced Thedosians on his own only shows his personal journey in this regard.

 

Yeah, i mean it's just a person, right? Any person with a bit of self-control, or decency, does stuff like that (and keeps doing it over and over again)

As i stated many times, he gave Corypheus the orb and risked innocent people's lives, but to him they were non-people so it's okay. Especially since, in 2 scenarios out of 3 (friendship and romance), he later comes to understand that people are people and corrects his ways by..... uh vowing to kill 'em all. Even then, it's okay because, in all his wisdom, he's probably protecting the world from something far worse.

 

He killed his friend, stole the powers/something from another and plans to destroy the world, but hey he has good reasons and feels bad so it's okay

 

Not for me, really. What he's doing is only necessary because he says it is, and that is no good reason.

[Medhia_Nox]

This is coming from an elf that turns the death of his spirit friend into a personal trauma all about how it affects him.  

 

He's the most self-centered drama queen on Thedas. 

 

Of course he thinks he's paying the "ultimate price" - any price he pays is the greatest, most terrible thing anyone has experienced.  He does it through the entire game.  

[maia0407]

@midnight: Nice posts. There really seems to be a lot of confusion around these parts about the nature of science. It's simply a method for understanding the universe. Anything that manifests in nature can be subjected to the scientific method so that we can understand that phenomenon. Some of our dear forumites want to exclude squishy subjects like art and emotion from scientific scrutiny; however, they are just a products of minds and can be tested and measured. I would not categorize magic in Thedas as something outside of nature that can't be tested. It's observable and it effects that fictional world. Of course it can be tested and described by fictional science.

I'm reminded of the whole issue of whether anything that *actually* exists could ever be described as 'supernatural' in our universe. The fact that we can observe something that has an effect on our reality, even if we don't understand it yet, means that by definition it can't exist outside of reality or be supernatural. Put more simply, a phenomenon can't effect our reality *and* be outside reality. The only way I can see that supernatural has any meaning is when it's applied to abstract concepts like god that have no observable effects on reality. Magic would fall into this abstract category in our universe as it's a fictional concept. In Thedas' universe, magic *can't* be supernatural and *not* subject to the scientific method as it effects their reality,

At any rate, this conversation is going around in circles due to people not understanding science. Back to school, the lot of youse!

[midnight tea]

Each Thedosian's experience with magic is a unique one... it is natural Thedosian law in conjunction imbued with meaning. 

 

Science cannot give value or imbue anything with meaning.   

 

The natural laws exist regardless of how much you believe a sword is a sword... (DA:O - Valor) 

 

This is nothing more than a word salad.

 

Saying that people experience magic subjectively means little: every person who have ever lived experiences their reality subjectively - so do we. That doesn't mean that reality doesn't exist outside our senses, or how we perceive or sense things, or that we can't create a model of knowing reality more objectively than our own, flawed perception allows for it. This is where science comes in - it's so far our best tool to know reality on at least somewhat objective level, even things that escape our perception, like quantum effects or gluons or radiation.

 

Also - it's interesting that you say that "natural laws exist regardless of how much you believe this is that" (a position of Valor, a spirit, when it's made patently clear that spirits don't really understand the Veiled world, just like humans don't really understand the Fade) while you disregard the fact that magic in Thedas exists and is an integral part of its nature no matter if someone believes or accepts it.

 

Even Qunari, who reject magic to a point where they actively fight it, got themselves turned into garden statues when they bothered a mage who they shouldn't have bothered. So a Qunari stopped being a Qunari, just like sword can stop being a sword so long as someone has enough will or motivation to shape it into something else. Willpower in Thedas can override other laws, which in itself makes it a law in that particular world. Basically, "I reject your reality and substitute my own" in DA setting is actually a real phenomenon. It's demonstrable. Empirical and testable. Even Templar or Seeker abilities to "reinforce reality" actually rely on magic (lyrium in case of Templars, Faith spirits in case of Sekeers).

 

Now - the fact that "science doesn't give meaning" to anything is a complete non-sequitur. Meaning (or art) doesn't exist outside of a perspective of a subject who gives something meaning - in our case it's us, humans. And humans can totally be subject of scientific inquiry. Why we give meaning, how we imbue things with meaning, why it matters to us to give meaning - it all can be studied and be well understood by using tools of science.

 

We're real, and physical, and it's our brains that create ideas and give meaning. It just so happens that in Thedas there exist an additional force in natural world that makes concepts that get born in human head get externalized and grants ability to override other laws existing in their universe, so long as the subjects have enough willpower, or borrow that willpower from someone else (blood, lyrium, posession, drawing power from other mages or people).

[Medhia_Nox]

@midnight tea:  You mistake me for someone who thinks you are an authority. 

 

I'm surrounded by scientists daily.  I like your enthusiasm though. 

[midnight tea]

@midnight tea:  You mistake me for someone who thinks you are an authority. 

 

I'm surrounded by scientists daily.  I like your enthusiasm though. 

 

"I'm surrounded by scientists daily" =/= "I understand science". And you keep demonstrating that you don't.

[IllustriousT]

I'm surrounded by IT "experts" all day and believe me...that =/= IT experts. 

[midnight tea]

This is coming from an elf that turns the death of his spirit friend into a personal trauma all about how it affects him.  

 

He's the most self-centered drama queen on Thedas. 

 

Of course he thinks he's paying the "ultimate price" - any price he pays is the greatest, most terrible thing anyone has experienced.  He does it through the entire game.  

 

... Talk about rejecting reality and substituting your own This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start - and I don't know if I should, given that the sentence itself is incoherent. It just so happens that it's about Solas, so you *obviously* have to bend over backwards to try and spin it into something as negative as possible, nevermind that it should make sense or not.

 

Sorry hon, but the death of spirit of wisdom is a different thing than death of Felassan, nor Solas was a raging maniac after it died all bemoaning the fact that it did till the end of game or during Trespasser or anything of the sort - he naturally mourned the loss of someone who, as far as we know, is gentle and innocent and beneficial from the world from hands of ignorant buffoons, but he calmed down quickly, went far away to mourn it on his own and came back to Skyhold to express his appreciation for Inquisitor at least bothering to try and help. Incidentally we get the 'friendship confirmation' scene right after that. So sorry, but "personal trauma that all affects him"?

 

He's the most self-centered drama queen on Thedas. 

 

Projecting much, Mr. Bullied And Censured Drama Queen? Just because Solas happens to be a pivotal character, which naturally makes us focus about his content form an audience perspective, doesn't make him a drama queen. He's not raging on the world just because of a loss of a spirit friend or any other nonsense like that.

 

I mean, why don't you level the same accusation at Flemeth? She does state that what she wants is "reckoning that will shake the very heavens". But ah, you know that he motivations more complex than that. You're just not negatively obsessing over her enough to twist every detail about her into a cartoon.

[maia0407]

hmmm... I'm surrounded by dogs. Three of them in fact. I feel very wise in the way of dogs at this moment!

I also need to change out of the fur suit I'm wearing before leaving the house. Stupid shedding season. I think I'd prefer scientists to dogs right now. Scientists don't shed.

[midnight tea]

I'm surrounded by IT "experts" all day and believe me...that =/= IT experts. 

 

Yeah, you can really tell when someone has no reasonable arguments when they suddenly jump out with something this sloppy... I mean, it's not even about "authority", because I don't claim to be one. There are just no compelling arguments to make me convinced that the other side knows or understands more than I do. Especially NOT after fallacious arguments like that one 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

I would dare to say that Solas also require the suspension of disbelief otherwise it would be near to impossible for me to enjoy his character,too much stupidity.

Uh, why? Whether you interpret Solas as complicated, stupid, or both, people are those things in real life. You hardly need to suspend disbelief to believe a character like Solas could exist, which is part of why many find him compelling.

 

Magic requires our suspension of disbelief, because - like every fiction - in our world magic doesn't exist. That is not true of Thedas. Nobody there with magical power has to "suspend their disbelief" to zap someone with lightning. And anyone who disbelieves can still be zapped with frikking lightning. That's as empirical and real as you can get.

*snip*

I'm not disagreeing with your point about science at all, but I wanted to point out that magic sort of does require a mage to "suspend their disbelief", as we learn in a banter between Solas and Cassandra. And this is countered by templars and seekers "reinforcing reality", or "suspending their suspension of disbelief"

 

 

Allow me to perform an  arrangement of thy words 

"Solas is both: a friend to all forms of life  and a destroyer of worlds, an elvhen supremacist and hero of the oppressed  "

I perceive that as someone which is a walking contradiction

That's not a contradiction, as others have explained, but it wouldn't matter even if it was. Have you heard of cognitive dissonance? Walking contradictions exist in real life, so I don't see the problem