4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

I think it may be about something else, since Solas doesn't really regard the past in a romantic sense. 

 

 

Er... what romantic reality? Solas is not trying to restore Elvenhan - he even tells to Dorian that it was no better than Tevinter in its time and he destroyed it once already. What he tries to do is restore people's conscious connection with the Fade and the world to what appears to be its natural state. He recognizes that it wan't a perfect world, in fact he can state since early in the game that the Veilless world is not without danger and peril. But he also states that current world is actually much worse than it was before. That should tell us something.

That might have come out a little more melodramatic than I wanted. It's late and I'm a little tired lol.

 

My only point was that Solas wishes to "restore the world of my time" and supposedly resurrect the old elves. And that consequence of doing so would tear down the Veil and have the world burn in the raw chaos that destroying the Veil would unleash.

[Xerrai]

At this stage, I truly am curious if Bioware will give us a final choice regarding what will happen to Solas or simply let us have no say. I would almost like the latter option and let the narrative play out naturally.

That is not exactly ideal. To have one of the main (presumably) world-changing characters able to to continue on his course with no hope of change is unprecedented. Can you imagine? A protagonist where his/her actions result to nothing in the grand scope of things. Not being able to forge his/her destiny, the ultimate bane in RPGs.

 

No, Sheperd, you can't choose control or destruction. The only option you can have is synthesis. Forget your aspirations of utilizing the reapers for humanity, forget downright destruction of the reaper threat. The only way, is the synthesis way.

 

Or alternatively:

No, new Dragon Age protagonist, it doesn't matter how much you hate Solas, he will succeed in his plans, and you just have deal. The veil must be torn down because reasons, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Hellion Rex]

The stakes are actually murky, since we don't have all the facts. It may turn out to be just as you describe, or it may not. 

And therein lies the crux of our dilemma. Are you willing to take that bet? I personally am not. 

[Almostfaceman]

And therein lies the crux of our dilemma. Are you willing to take that bet? I personally am not. 

 

Well you kinda have to, since they don't let you stop him at the end of Trespasser. We actually have to wait to find out the rest of the facts. 

 

You definitely can judge the situation now, that's your right. 

 

But we definitely don't know everything, you have to admit there's a possibility that there will be more information that may change your mind. I think it's prudent to just admit that now and reserve final judgement until we've played DA4. 

 

But that's just my two cents. 

[Hellion Rex]

That is not exactly ideal. To have one of the main (presumably) world-changing characters able to to continue on his course with no hope of change is unprecedented. Can you imagine? A protagonist where his/her actions result to nothing in the grand scope of things. Not being able to forge his/her destiny, the ultimate bane in RPGs.

 

I think it's just as powerful to have a story told where a person simply cannot be "saved" or redeemed, no matter how hard you wish it otherwise. I hardly think it unprecedented or leaving you unable to "forge his or her destiny" simply because you could not save redeem a too far gone friend. 

[Hellion Rex]

Well you kinda have to, since they don't let you stop him at the end of Trespasser. We actually have to wait to find out the rest of the facts. 

 

You definitely can judge the situation now, that's your right. 

 

But we definitely don't know everything, you have to admit there's a possibility that there will be more information that may change your mind. I think it's prudent to just admit that now and reserve final judgement until we've played DA4. 

 

But that's just my two cents. 

When I was referring to "take the bet" I was simply referring to the ability to express our intentions towards Solas and whether a person's Inquisitor found it worth the risk to try and redeem, or whether it was required to put an end to Solas. 

 

I only try to judge the situation critically now because of the direness of the situation as well as the fact that it'll be a long time before we actually receive any substantive info lol (DA4 is years away).

[midnight tea]

@Midnight Tea:

First, thank you for posting all of that. I had already read and listened to those things, but I appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. 

 

Now then, I need to clarify with you about how I view Solas. I don't view him in the simplistic terms you are implying I am. In fact, it is the opposite. I understand Solas' perspective, motivations, misgivings, etc as well as what Patrick Weekes wanted the character to be. For me, that's just not enough to be on your side of the fence. Many of the worst people in human history are absolutely fascinating to study, but that doesn't change the fact they are among the worst people in human history. Same with Solas. He is a fascinating villain, but still a villain nonetheless. 

 

You're welcome. If possible, I always try and bring as much as I can to the table.

 

Well you say you don't view him as simplistic, only to make comments that imply that you do - he's stupid, he straightforwardly lies, he doesn't care, there's no nuance or subtlety or possible different outcome of his plans than utter destruction and he cares little to nothing for others, but is all about saving few of his ancient buddies and so on, and much of that indeed is going against even author's comments and hints he's made about the character.

Well, but if you view him like that, no wonder that you view him as a villain. Yet Solas is hardly there with Stalin, or Hitler or Mao Zetung or Kim Ir Sen/Dzong Il/Dzong Un or other horrible people we know from history, even by characterization alone, nor his plans remind of any plans those criminals had for the world or their nations.

There was in fact never really a perfectly analogous situation IRL to situation Solas is in - being pretty much forced to create a bubble around the world that protects people from magical dictators that possibly wanted to destroy everything, only to fall unconscious to the Fade for the millenia and watch helplessly how his own creation hurts those he tried to help and robbed them of something he deems important and having that guilt gnaw at him for so long. I can't not like him, because the fact that he retains so much humanity after such a long time and such insane ordeal is nothing short of a miracle. Plus, I myself put my characters in such messed up situations and hardly think of them as villains. Sometimes the situation is simply that messed up.

[Xerrai]

I think it's just as powerful to have a story told where a person simply cannot be "saved" or redeemed, no matter how hard you wish it otherwise. I hardly think it unprecedented or leaving you unable to "forge his or her destiny" simply because you could not save redeem a too far gone friend. 

Perhaps.

But I think it is just as powerful as not being able to "defeat" the main antagonist, no matter how much you may personally despise him and no matter how much effort you may stake into defeating him.

 

But that is not really the point. For pivotal characters that we invest in, not having a say in their fate (particularly if it changes the state of the world) it will really rub off badly on some players that their choice amounts to nothing. "Powerful narrative" be damned. It's right there with having the player character be killed at the end because reasons.

 

It's not always bad. But it can really rile people up.

 

There are few things that players dislike more then having no say in the fate of someone of they are emotionally invested in, and have been set up as having the potential to save/defeat based on events in prior games/events.

[midnight tea]

I think it's just as powerful to have a story told where a person simply cannot be "saved" or redeemed, no matter how hard you wish it otherwise. I hardly think it unprecedented or leaving you unable to "forge his or her destiny" simply because you could not save redeem a too far gone friend. 

 

Er, okay, but that's just one side of fandom. Not all people want to redeem him - some just want to kill or punish him. Why is it more powerful to have a story where one can't redeem a person and not a story where you can't kill someone you really want, for example?

[Hellion Rex]

Perhaps.

But I think it is just as powerful as not being able to "defeat" the main antagonist, no matter how much you may personally despise him and no matter how much effort you may stake into defeating him.

 

But that is not really the point. For pivotal characters that we invest in, not having a say in their fate (particularly if it changes the state of the world) it will really rub off badly on some players that their choice amounts to nothing. "Powerful narrative" be damned. It's right there with having the player character be killed at the end because reasons.

 

It's not always bad. But it can really rile people up.

 

There are few things that players dislike more then having no say in the fate of someone of they are emotionally invested in, and have been set up as having the potential to save/defeat based on events in prior games/events.

I'd rather them do what is more narratively appropriate and what is better written than necessarily try to appease a given half of the fandom or the other. I honestly do not give a damn if it "riles people" up. Half the stuff Bioware does angers someone these days.

[Hellion Rex]

Er, okay, but that's just one side of fandom. Not all people want to redeem him - some just want to kill or punish him. Why is it more powerful to have a story where one can't redeem a person and not a story where you can't kill someone you really want, for example?

Never said the reverse wasn't possible. But I was just speaking from my own personal perspective what I found to be the stronger of the two.

[German Soldier]

 

 

Solas doesn't use blood magic, so that's unlikely. I suppose he could get someone else to do it, but... meh. Doubt it. Also, I could be wrong, but didn't he imply that he needed the Anchor not just to get into the fade, but also to bring down the veil?

 

Solas has no problems with blood magic if he usually don't use it is because it make(i don't know why) for him difficult to use his faculties as somaniari,however in this case the blood magic would be used to enter the fade like Corypheus did long ago.

I think the anchor was only necessary to enter the fade in flesh without sacrifices then he would have used the Orb in some way.

[German Soldier]

 

 

 

For me, the obvious comparison Bioware wants to draw is the hero doing what they think they need to do to save whatever they think they need to save. 

 

What do we do, generally, in our games? We're the hero, saving something. Sometimes it's the world, sometimes it's the victims. You get the drift. 

 

They take Solas. From the perspective of Solas, he saves the world thousands of years ago. 

 

When we play a video game, from our perspective we save the world. 

 

Differences is that the Pc actually saved the world while Solas want to save his imaginary world made of elven supremacy at the expense of many others.

Solas saving the world thousands of years ago is based on Solas  word for all i know he is just the one who crumbled his own world thus  Solas for me is no Hero.

[Ieldra]

@leldra was more than willing to condone Corypheus and his inner circle of friends and the whole cycle of destruction they brought upon the world is not really a surprise the lack of issues for Solas.

 

Because they saw the big picture.....because they had "aspirations"

I adamantly refuse to see the attempt to enter the Golden City as a "sin". There are no "things we aren't meant to know", no "god's domain we aren't allowed to enter", and as a rule, I support attempts to claim such powers for ourselves. In addition, I say that those who claim such things are "sinful", do so in order to keep people small and powerless, so that they remain unable to escape *their* power. Escaping the false claims of divinely-sanctioned  limits to what we should be able to achieve is a virtue, and thus, an attempt to enter the Golden City, done in a different spirit, would be a virtuous undertaking.

 

The evil of any kind of power always lies in what you do to gain it, and what you do with it once you have it. There did the Seven disqualify themselves - but only themselves, and not their undertaking as such.

 

Edit:

As for unleashing the Blight, we still don't know if that was an accident. If it was intentional, then that falls under the purview of "what you do with the power once you have it", and if it wasn't, all we can accuse the Seven of - in that regard at least - is recklessness. 

[Secret Rare]

 

If he was intent on creating a "fake persona" then he was woefully inefficient at it. A fake persona implies utilizing it to get the desired effects, and the only thing Solas could do with presumed fake persona was essentially staying out the of the way? If the Inquisitor never pried, literally the only thing Solas would do was be his apostate hobo self who liked painting and reading. That's it.

He made no lingering connections. He made no attempts to raise his status in the Inquisition. He made no moves to garner influence over anyone in the Inquisition, and he was essentially the most out-of-the-picture-and-in-no-way-important person.

 

If the Solas in Inquisition was a "made up" Solas, then he really has no idea how those fake persona are supposed to work.

Actually i think that he is so good at faking his own persona that managed to fools everyone damn well.

Remember that this is the person who was playing the part of the polite apostate and at the same time was the head of a network of spies in your  organization.

[Ieldra]

Solas is the new Loghain. And as such, his fandom is divided into two types: Those that love him despite his misdeeds and those that recognize his flaws but don't consider them "real flaws". There is justification for every tiny detail.

A nice example of his detractors tending to oversimplification.

 

How hard can it be to accept that some people maintain an in-between stance?

[midnight tea]

A nice example of his detractors tending to oversimplification.

 

How hard can it be to accept that some people maintain an in-between stance?

 

Oh, but don't you know? In-between is total justification of every flaw he has and a sign of blind love towards a bad and utterly irredeemable character 

[Ieldra]

At this stage, I truly am curious if Bioware will give us a final choice regarding what will happen to Solas or simply let us have no say. I would almost like the latter option and let the narrative play out naturally.

It will be as usual. We will have a choice, but it will be purely cosmetic and/or a vehicle for roleplaying. It won't change any significant aspect of the outcome

[Secret Rare]

I adamantly refuse to see the attempt to enter the Golden City as a "sin". There are no "things we aren't meant to know", no "god's domain we aren't allowed to enter", and as a rule, I support attempts to claim such powers for ourselves.

When you are pursuing a goal it would be better  to know what that goal is and what kind of dangers  entails.

-If you pursue a goal is  good.

-if you don't pursue a goal is  good.

-If you purse a goal with  extreme uncertainty and with the "let us hope" mindset it would be better to stay at home

 

*Solas ,Corypheus and Morrigan* 

The 3 Protagonists of  what Pride had wrought.

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

**Removed**

Wow, so it's time to just straight up insult those who disagree with you now huh? 

[German Soldier]

Wow, so it's time to just straight up insult those who disagree with you now huh? 

You're black and white if you see Solas as a criminal.

[maia0407]

@Hanako: Are you categorizing yourself as a black and white thinker? Have you misconstrued other people's words to make your own perspective appear superior? I'm asking as I haven't really followed what you personally have been arguing. At any rate, I'm calling the narrow mindedness like I see it; if some of you see yourself in that description, I can't help if you find it insulting.

[nightscrawl]

It will be as usual. We will have a choice, but it will be purely cosmetic and/or a vehicle for roleplaying. It won't change any significant aspect of the outcome

 

While I agree with the negative sentiment, I'd like to know what you suggest they do with such choices, particularly as this is an ongoing series where the events of the next game are referential to, or resultant from the events of the previous one.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Hanako: Are you categorizing yourself as a black and white thinker? Have you misconstrued other people's words to make your own perspective appear superior? I'm asking as I haven't really followed what you personally have been arguing. At any rate, I'm calling the narrow mindedness like I see it; if some of you see yourself in that description, I can't help if you find it insulting.

Drop the condescension. The only one being narrow-minded and acting like your perspective is superior is you. 

[Seraphim24]

Solas is pretty much pure chaotic evil as far as I know... he wants to destroy the entire world//most people in it and replace with some "friends."  

 

Even Edwin was more conscionable, to be honest. 

 

As to why girls/guys would be into that.. I er.. don't know... not being one of them, he is not the kind of character I like, to say the least.