4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Someone has posed an interesting question: Why did Solas go into uthenera after creating the Veil?

Had he stayed and continued to lead the elves, they wouldn't be in such a sorry state right now.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Qun00:  My guess?  He was sad.  

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Someone has posed an interesting question: Why did Solas go into uthenera after creating the Veil?

Had he stayed and continued to lead the elves, they wouldn't be in such a sorry state right now.

 

I don't think that Solas knows how to lead an actual government or a large society. He is a rebel, which means he knows how to break society apart, not put it back together and lead it.

[lynroy]

LOL sad.

 

My guess is creating the veil used up so much of his magical energy he was incredibly weak afterwards and had to go into uthenara to recover. 

[Sah291]

@Qun00,

Did he?

Maybe it wasn't by choice. Like, maybe he was attacked by a sloth demon, like Feynriel, and fell asleep, lost in his dreams.

Or maybe. He vowed never to meddle again and decided to leave people alone to their own devices, so they could be free.

Or maybe. He's on a sleep cycle to wake up only every few thousands years or so to start a new age, during times of great strife.

Who knows.

[Secret Rare]

In video games, I sit around plotting the most efficient ways to pulp enemies, gleefully calculating the fastest methods of splattering their guts on the floor. But in reality, I'm a total pacifist. This is a pretty common pattern, and I think a lot of people accept it. Compared to most protagonists, video game players are hippie dippy flower children. Nearly every internet forum is full of people who will passionately argue against the idea that violent video games cause violence.

 

For some reason, people have trouble transferring that logic from fictional violence to fictional relationships.

 

They assume that players really think fictional relationships are worth emulating, or that a satisfying fictional relationship is a template for a satisfying real relationship. It's the same thing! Fictional combat allows people to explore violence that would be unacceptable (and, frankly, traumatizing) in real life. Fictional friendships and romances are heightened, expressionistic representations of things that people normally wouldn't even want to explore in real life. Unhealthy relationships can be part of that exploration.

 

Plus, fiction is one of the few contexts where there's 0 consequence to ignoring a person's flaws. "Seeing character flaws in people you look up to" is one of the most depressing aspects of real life. It's utterly deflating. So, if a fictional character has good qualities A, B, and C, it's perfectly reasonable for some people to decide they're ok minimizing bad qualities X, Y, and Z. Even if X, Y, and Z are pretty big. Since it's fiction, people have complete freedom to choose which things are dealbreakers. They no longer have to worry about practical constraints like personal safety.

Why do you assume that players think that fictional relationships or fictional characters and their relative flaws are worth to be emulated?

We have been discussing a creative and artistic work  made possible through tecnological means which can be a form of escapism and carefree  reflection at the same time.

Of course i have no desire to match by imitation DA characters and their relative relationship arch which is often tied in magical strawberries,however  why i should ignore their flaws and personality just because they are fictional representations?

I mean there would not be any reason at all to bother with Rpg if i have to treat them just like Arcade games.

Why i'm unable to transfer the concept of  Arcade game  with relationships? Maybe because they are two different things.

Seeing a flaw isn't depressing on the contrary not being able to see it  is depressing especially if done while supporting the supposed virtues  and  if everything i do in the game has zero consequences because they are all pixels that doesn't mean that the argument is valid.

Are you gonna ignoring the genocide plan,terroristic acts, bloody rituals that gamble the world just because Thedas does not exist?

Then you most likely didn't care about the story and that ficitonal world at all like a Qunari.

[Hellion Rex]

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

[The Elder King]

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

That's an interesting question. Though we don't know the full extent of his (and the other elven 'gods) powers. It might be that he's that powerful, or that he used a ritual (as the magisters did to enter the Fade physically). 

[Medhia_Nox]

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

 

I'm gonna go with "blood magic". 

 

I'll be he told the elves... "I have to kill you, I'm very sad about it... but I have to do it.  I could tell you why, but I won't.  But I have to - cause anything else is worse."  

 

Then... he said:  "I feel so bad I killed those elves.  Time to run away into the Fade." 

 

FIN

[midnight tea]

Someone has posed an interesting question: Why did Solas go into uthenera after creating the Veil?

Had he stayed and continued to lead the elves, they wouldn't be in such a sorry state right now.

 

He says that after the Veil creation he fell "unconscious for millenia" and "lay in dark and dreaming sleep" only to wake "still weak", hence unable to open the Orb.

 

The wording suggests pretty strongly that his thousands years of Uthenera weren't fully voluntary - either the Veil or the trap on Evanuris has drained him so thoroughly, that he basically had no choice but to sleep.

 

Which.. you know, after creating a world-shrouding spell or trapping six immortal mage-kings (and apparently sacrificing something of himself in the process, as suggested by Cole's comment in Trespasser) was probably something expected to happen. He didn't just go to take a nap - all this time he was regenerating from his ordeal, and in fact didn't yet manage to regenerate enough in time.

[AresKeith]

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

 

Possibly the Orb along with some ritual

 

Remember that he wanted to get the Orb back in order to do his plan

[midnight tea]

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

 

Well, if Solas can do that (yes, it's him on the mural, in both instances):

 

Spoiler

 

...there's no saying how powerful he was before, or how much power he could have accumulated. But the orb is featured there as well.

[IllustriousT]

This thread has only increased my anticipation for DA4!  You all are awesome in this discussion. 

[midnight tea]

I don't think that Solas knows how to lead an actual government or a large society. He is a rebel, which means he knows how to break society apart, not put it back together and lead it.

 

Not sure about leading society, BUT... before the whole rebellion he was the guardian of Mythal - the effective head of pantheon - for whom he worked who knows how long and learned who knows how much (and you can actually hear that if you compare their dialogues, that he took after her quite a bit). There's evidence for him working for/with Mythal in Deep Roads section in Trespasser, and in post-epilogue scene she did call him an "old friend". There seems to be a lot of history there.

 

His advice for Sera also suggests that he was not just some rookie rebel who just knows how to break things - he offers advice that sounds like one for building a new government and power structure after overthrowing a previous system. And vaguely, but surely, the portion of dialogue with Sera AND some of his banter with Cassandra after he personal quest suggests that he was part of Evanuris earlier, probably in more than a position of 'guard dog' of Mythal. It appears that he worked for them, then they began getting all power-hungry, so he renounced them and started working against then - with that being intentionally paralleled in DAI with part of Casandra's arc and Seekers.

 

This can explain elegantly both why he'd know them so well to be able to either ultimately defeat powerful god-like being that outnumber him (knows their weaknesses and methods), how he'd lead a rebellion successful enough that they can't thwart it and eventually install him as a god amongst themselves (knows how to led successful military campaigns against a far bigger opponent), why he likes the court intrigue, why he's so bitter about organisations and what may be the source of betrayal (other than Mythal's murder), or how he's using the magic that seems to be tied with Evanuris. If he wasn't one of them (aside from brief moment during his rebellion), he wasn't that far away from what they were.

[Xerrai]

Someone has posed an interesting question: Why did Solas go into uthenera after creating the Veil?

Had he stayed and continued to lead the elves, they wouldn't be in such a sorry state right now.

It was implied putting up the veil made him weak. So he went into uthenera to help recover some of his power.

 

My question is where did he get the power to raise the Veil in the first place? It is something that affects and touches the minds of everyone alive, minus dwarves.

No one sure, but i'm putting my money on a coordinated effort with his followers. One that included the elvhen artifacts that we activate in the base game. Solas and possibly his orb, were used as the source to power that artifact network that would create the veil.

[nightscrawl]

I'm gonna go with "blood magic". 

 

I'll be he told the elves... "I have to kill you, I'm very sad about it... but I have to do it.  I could tell you why, but I won't.  But I have to - cause anything else is worse."  

 

Then... he said:  "I feel so bad I killed those elves.  Time to run away into the Fade." 

 

FIN

 

Solas doesn't use blood magic. Or rather, the Solas that we know doesn't (according to him). I'll grant you that he could have before.

 

You know, I've never really quite understood his whole discussion on blood magic in the game. He doesn't use it himself, but neither does he think it's truly bad or evil. Does he then say why he doesn't use it in some dialogue I'm forgetting?

 

I understand Dorian's reasoning: blood magic isn't inherently evil, but it's an "easy" path and tends to have a snowball effect leading to the mage wanting more and more power, which then leads to all of the darker aspects of blood magic (sacrifices, demon summoning, etc). But Solas doesn't offer any sort of reasoning like that that I can recall.

 

I've never cared for the Inquisitor's options in that conversation because none of them really correspond with how I view blood magic.

 

(Again, I could just have poor memory of the conversation, or missed banters, or something.)

[midnight tea]

Solas doesn't use blood magic. Or rather, the Solas that we know doesn't (according to him). I'll grant you that he could have before.

 

You know, I've never really quite understood his whole discussion on blood magic in the game. He doesn't use it himself, but neither does he think it's truly bad or evil. Does he then say why he doesn't use it in some dialogue I'm forgetting?

 

Yes - blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade. The reason for it is currently unknown.

[nightscrawl]

Yes - blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade. The reason for it is currently unknown.

 

OH yes, I do remember that now. Thanks XD.

 

[Deadly dwarf]

I've played through DAI a couple of times but only recently have begun the DLCs, so my opinion might change.  For me, Solas seems to play Mr. Spock to Inquisitor's Captain Kirk.  He's generally rational (if not emotion-free as Spock tried to be), knowledgeable about all things concerning magic and Thedas in general.  (I do like how Sera gets under his skin, however!)  As a character, he's the one who reveals the most about the Fade.  I like the idea that he's able to relive the memories of things that occurred in the past.  He makes a lot of that more "real."  (I especially like the "dream sequence" where he takes the Inquisitor back to Haven.)

 

All that said, I know he has a hidden agenda as the "Dread Wolf."  So even if he's a villain, he at least is a lot more interesting and multi-dimensional than Cory ever was.

[German Soldier]

...Chaotic evil supervillain, huh?

Well, it's your prerogative to think that way if you wish so, and considering your firm stance on the matter I don't think there's anything we can discuss here really - but that doesn't change the fact that neither the work, or its authors, support such extreme view. Just saying.

The authors aren't this supreme authority you think they may be and just because they wrote a character that doesn't mean that their vision should be in any way relevant for the perspective of the player.

[Medhia_Nox]

Solas doesn't use blood magic. Or rather, the Solas that we know doesn't (according to him). I'll grant you that he could have before.

 

You know, I've never really quite understood his whole discussion on blood magic in the game. He doesn't use it himself, but neither does he think it's truly bad or evil. Does he then say why he doesn't use it in some dialogue I'm forgetting?

 

I understand Dorian's reasoning: blood magic isn't inherently evil, but it's an "easy" path and tends to have a snowball effect leading to the mage wanting more and more power, which then leads to all of the darker aspects of blood magic (sacrifices, demon summoning, etc). But Solas doesn't offer any sort of reasoning like that that I can recall.

 

I've never cared for the Inquisitor's options in that conversation because none of them really correspond with how I view blood magic.

 

(Again, I could just have poor memory of the conversation, or missed banters, or something.)

 

I think it's one of those:  "I'm open minded about everything to be more appealing, but I find it distasteful." 

Example:  I think alcohol is repugnant in real life... but I'd never tell you not to drink.  

 

BTW - though I was mostly just being an ass... I do think there's a possibility that "blood magic" was an unexpected side effect of the Veil spell and led directly the collapse of the elven civiliation.

 

The Magisters have to use blood magic (or lyrium) to pierce the Veil and enter directly... is it completely unreasonable that creating required the same thing?

Regardless of headcanon... it's painfully obvious he didn't study the Veil spell he was casting otherwise he would have had SOME inkling of the outcome.  

 

My guess... like everything Solas does, passion overpowered reason and he cast it in a desperate attempt to stop the Evanuris - and realized, too late, that he was working blood magic. 

 

He "could" refuse to use it because of that mistake (or, rather, it would not be an unreasonable explanation). 

 

--------------

Besides Solas' testimony... is there any other place that suggests the Evanuris were tyrants? 

Dirthamen, Abelas and several other places (all directly related to the time and not the Dalish) paint the fall of the Evanuris as bad and not some salvation.  

 

If the priests of Dirthamen knew "everything" - why is there no documentation of why their god went silent in Dirthamen?  

[Xerrai]

I understand Dorian's reasoning: blood magic isn't inherently evil, but it's an "easy" path and tends to have a snowball effect leading to the mage wanting more and more power, which then leads to all of the darker aspects of blood magic (sacrifices, demon summoning, etc). But Solas doesn't offer any sort of reasoning like that that I can recall.

 

 

Solas says blood magic is magic--it only matters how it is used. He also says blood magic is a decent tool so long as it doesn't become a crutch nor a passion.

 

Presumably meaning, so long as you use yourself to fuel the power yourself, and not others, then it can be ok. Starting to use other people implies that you are becoming so reliant on blood magic to do whatever-you're-trying-to-do that you think using other people is fine in the effort to obtain power.

[Xerrai]

--------------

Besides Solas' testimony... is there any other place that suggests the Evanuris were tyrants? 

 

There were a few codex entries in the Temple of Mythal (a place of judgment) that the evanuris acted in ways that were largely.....detrimental to the The People.

 

Ghilan'nain created beasts that would terrorize them, Andruil went into madness and let plague eat her lands, Elgar'nan is constantly referenced as not having the self-control to not burn everything he touches when he is angry.

 

Then there are the Fen'Harel sanctuaries themselves. Of the followers he amassed, of the popularity Fen'Harel gained--all made on the backs of former evanuris followers.

 

Perhaps they were not as 'evil' as Tyrants as Solas paints them, but they were far from being ideal leaders.The rebellion itself tells that much. Some seemed to be more concerned with their pet projects that their station afforded them than the well being of their followers (which, I suppose is one way of being interpreted tyrant).

[Xerrai]

The Magisters have to use blood magic (or lyrium) to pierce the Veil and enter directly... is it completely unreasonable that creating required the same thing?

 

The 'rise' of blood magic and lyrium could simply be the result of the veil itself. The veil drastically limits the power one can gain from the "traditional" source of magic (the fade), and so looking for other sources of powerful magic was necessary. With the bulk of magical energy (the fade) locked behind the veil, other sources of power were necessary.

 

As it happens, blood magic and lyrium are two 'sources' of magic that fit those requirements.

 

So I'd wager that it was mostly because it blood magic and lyrium were easier sources of powerful magic rather than any mandatory prerequisite. After all, the mark never functioned with blood magic/lyrium (and the sacrifice Cory wanted to use to the open the orb actually lived past the orbs opening, so it doesn't seem required), so I don't see how blood magic and lyrium were so much 'required' as much as they were 'convenient'.

[Almostfaceman]

The authors aren't this supreme authority you think they may be and just because they wrote a character that doesn't mean that their vision should be in any way relevant for the perspective of the player.

 

You can disagree with the writers about how well they may or may have not made him a sympathetic villain. But you can't disagree when they flat-out tell you the characters motivations. You can dislike the motivations, but they have total control of the character and the story surrounding the character.