4635 réponses à ce sujet

[midnight tea]

The authors aren't this supreme authority you think they may be and just because they wrote a character that doesn't mean that their vision should be in any way relevant for the perspective of the player.

 

It's relevant to the perspective of the player, because it's relevant to where they're going with a story OR a character, which may later impact player's enjoyment or expectations from the story. Some of the reactions to Iron Bull's betrayal and obvious bad intentions of the Qunari prove that enough.

 

I mean sure, the player can feel all they want about a character, but that doesn't mean that they got their characterization right, or that they can tell other people that they're right, at least to an extent to what author has intended. In that regard they are indeed supreme authority, since it's THEIR creation, even if they can't control how audience members view them. And if we're trying to establish something about a character, but people can't come to the consensus based on evidence of the game, their word on that regard matters - Solas can't be simultaneously a cartoony supervillain or an incarnation of chaos and evil with no redeeming qualities and a sympathetic antagonist who may yet be redeemable. He can't simultaneously be a scoundrel who lies at every step and a person who generally avoids lying and if he does so, he lies by omission. He can't be an uncaring bastard with no sympathy for not-people and a deeply conflicted person who cares about his new friends. As much as Solas is gray and in-between, some things are to too irreconcilable. 

 

Like, we're talking two different characters here. And one of them only exists in someone's head.

[Illegitimus]

Why do most people keep going for Morrigan and after DA:I Leliana?

Why do most people who rolled human noble marry Alistair /Anora?

Why do people romance Anders in first place in DA2?

Why is seriously Liara most romanced crew member in ME universe despite not being that much interesting in here?

Why? Why!?

 

Because players loooo~~~~ve being biggest 'Mary Sues' of story and best way to be that is to well "romance" the Mary Sue(most relevant character to plot) so their character can be just as important to that plot and so players can feel as if they were just as "important" as those characters. Simple, really.

 

I wish people wouldn't equate "important character" with "Mary Sue".  Being an important character is not in itself a reason to hate that character.  Although the thought occurs to me that the real reason why most people go for Morrigan is http://allthetropes....First_Girl_Wins.  Morrigan is the first girl you meet.  Alistair is the first romanceable man you meet.  Solas is also the first romanceable man you meet (for a female elf).  If you're a female elf, Solas is the predictable choice.  

[German Soldier]

Someone has posed an interesting question: Why did Solas go into uthenera after creating the Veil?

Had he stayed and continued to lead the elves, they wouldn't be in such a sorry state right now.

I presume that is because of the presence of the veil who removed from the elves the eternal youth.

Had Solas stayed with the elves he would have  begin aging.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Oh hey, I didn't notice until now, but there is a statue of Fen'Harel, and one of Mythal, and on the corresponding sides to Solas and Flemeth, too.

 

 

Then there's also an issue of a body... in an amulet? I'm pretty sure she means a soul fragment. If there exists a 2nd body it may as well be her other possessed daughter, and the ritual might have meant that she "unlocked" it for herself to posses, or something in that fashion.

Well, I agree that it was a soul fragment, but it does appear that it might as well have been a body, since her fragments seem to be able to create a body for themselves, and even retain enough power to change into yet another body (dragon). If she can "summon" a body (for lack of a better term) that would also explain why her appearance changed since DA:O - it's not only a new body, but also perhaps her default form. Even further, it may even be Mythal's form (since we know Mythal wore the same armour). If not, I suppose simply a copy of Flemeth's body wearing Mythal's outfit.

[Medhia_Nox]

You can disagree with the writers about how well they may or may have not made him a sympathetic villain. But you can't disagree when they flat-out tell you the characters motivations. You can dislike the motivations, but they have total control of the character and the story surrounding the character. 

 

I think my problem with author authority in this situation is that this is not a novel... Patrick Weekes isn't just writing these characters without being forced to fit them into the greater narrative. 

 

I disagree that they have total control... this is not a creation of one person.  

 

Has Patrick Weekes said - without question - that he does not have to answer to anyone about the design and direction of Solas (even a lead writer has to answer to other people during the process of video game creation I imagine)?

 

Also - if I writer has to talk to you outside of his narrative to give you insight about a character (which some have clung to as if it were present in the storyline) - I would question that writer's ability to intimate some of his messages - though, in an instance like a video game I'd hardly hold him/her completely accountable.  

[Almostfaceman]

I think my problem with author authority in this situation is that this is not a novel... Patrick Weekes isn't just writing these characters without being forced to fit them into the greater narrative. 

 

I disagree that they have total control... this is not a creation of one person.  

 

Has Patrick Weekes said - without question - that he does not have to answer to anyone about the design and direction of Solas (even a lead writer has to answer to other people during the process of video game creation I imagine)?

 

Also - if I writer has to talk to you outside of his narrative to give you insight about a character (which some have clung to as if it were present in the storyline) - I would question that writer's ability to intimate some of his messages - though, in an instance like a video game I'd hardly hold him/her completely accountable.  

 

So you're saying that when the developers come along and tell you what the characters motivations are, that they haven't had their meetings and already made all those decisions about the character? 

 

Everything that's been quoted has been about how the character was developed, how it started at first and how it ended up in the final draft. So we're at the end of the development cycle for Solas with regards to Inquisition and Trespasser. All committee meetings have been held and everyone's in agreement. 

[Xerrai]

I think my problem with author authority in this situation is that this is not a novel... Patrick Weekes isn't just writing these characters without being forced to fit them into the greater narrative. 

 

I disagree that they have total control... this is not a creation of one person.  

 

Has Patrick Weekes said - without question - that he does not have to answer to anyone about the design and direction of Solas (even a lead writer has to answer to other people during the process of video game creation I imagine)?

 

Also - if I writer has to talk to you outside of his narrative to give you insight about a character (which some have clung to as if it were present in the storyline) - I would question that writer's ability to intimate some of his messages - though, in an instance like a video game I'd hardly hold him/her completely accountable.  

That may be true and all, but it doesn't change the fact that Weekes is by default the 'best' source we have on all things Solas. After all, its not like Weekes had no say In how Solas acts. Furthermore, a decent amount of his answers were only revealed after the base game was released and the final draft of Solas's DAi character was written, so its not like Weekes answers are outdated.

[German Soldier]

Yes - blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade. The reason for it is currently unknown.

As usual with Dragon age it's all observations with no understanding that is extremely anti-scientific.

[midnight tea]

I think my problem with author authority in this situation is that this is not a novel... Patrick Weekes isn't just writing these characters without being forced to fit them into the greater narrative. 

 

I disagree that they have total control... this is not a creation of one person.  

 

Has Patrick Weekes said - without question - that he does not have to answer to anyone about the design and direction of Solas (even a lead writer has to answer to other people during the process of video game creation I imagine)?

 

This makes no sense - even if a game as a whole is written by more than one person (so are many movies or comics, btw) , not only Weekes was personally designated (by Gaider, who chimed in too) to write the character (therefore he knows him well), but it's not like they're just writing character and story elements without agreeing on how characters are or where they're going with them. Weekes, for example, has pitched in an idea for Solas romance to make him look sadder and the team has reviewed it and responsible team leads approved the concept into the game. Wherever they're going, they're going together - and now that Weekes is a lead writer, he isn't just responsible for a few characters or portions of the story, but a vision for the entire overarching story. Its custodian, so to speak. It's definitely apt to say that he has certain measure of control there - and if not that, then certainly that he knows both the story and characters well.

 

 

Also - if I writer has to talk to you outside of his narrative to give you insight about a character (which some have clung to as if it were present in the storyline) - I would question that writer's ability to intimate some of his messages - though, in an instance like a video game I'd hardly hold him/her completely accountable.  

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa - author's word on the matter was only brought here when a few people kept denying that the information can be found in the game. That you don't see its presence in storyline, despite being frequently and explicitly pointed out to you, is in that case unsupported both by people who have different view than you AND the character's author. 

[midnight tea]

As usual with Dragon age it's all observations with no understanding that is extremely anti-scientific.

 

As usual you speak gibberish. Blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade - FACT. That we don't know yet what causes it is hardly unscientific; it simply means that we need more information.

[Almostfaceman]

I think my problem with author authority in this situation is that this is not a novel... Patrick Weekes isn't just writing these characters without being forced to fit them into the greater narrative. 

 

I disagree that they have total control... this is not a creation of one person.  

 

Has Patrick Weekes said - without question - that he does not have to answer to anyone about the design and direction of Solas (even a lead writer has to answer to other people during the process of video game creation I imagine)?

 

Also - if I writer has to talk to you outside of his narrative to give you insight about a character (which some have clung to as if it were present in the storyline) - I would question that writer's ability to intimate some of his messages - though, in an instance like a video game I'd hardly hold him/her completely accountable.  

 

I think this argument is also reaching beyond the developer and consumer context of my statement. When I say "the writers have the final say" about character motivations, that is in the context of developer and consumer. The consumer can't come along and tell the developer "no, character X's motivation is actually Y instead of Z." That would be nonsense and fan fiction. 

 

I think the writers were asked about the characters, like Solas. But irregardless I can speak for myself and say I saw the character motivations intended by the author without having to hear from the authors themselves. So your observation "as if it were present in the story line" is of course your subjective viewpoint.

 

The authors made a character with motivations and clearly a portion of the audience was able to pick up on those motivations without having to talk to the authors - this isn't even up for debate. 

[Sah291]

I don't think blood magic was used to create the Veil. We are told the Veil isn't a physical barrier, but a vibration that repells the fade.

So he must have used or made something that was capable of producing and carrying a vibration so powerful, it could cause dissonance in the fade, splitting it in two.

[Xerrai]

Whoa, whoa, whoa - author's word on the matter was only brought here when people kept denying that the information can be found in the game. That you don't see its presence in storyline, despite being frequently and explicitly pointed out to you, is in that case unsupported both by people who have different view than you AND the character's author. 

And I normally don't outright support midnight tea in posts (usually), but this is spot on.

 

We DON'T rely on author interpretation. Most of our opinions on Solas were based  with solely in-game information and experiences. It was only when people were insistent that those codex entries, dialogues, and experiences were faulty in some way (Solas lied! That codex is not reliable! You interpreted it wrong! etc.) that we decided to go for a source that could not be easily denied. Namely, his author.

 

That's as close tot he word of god anyone can get.

 

Do not blame us for going toward the author when it is our intellectual opponents that refuse to acknowledge even the possible authenticity of any other in-game sources. It is mostly a matter not wanting to in circles debating their credibility, that we go to a source that cannot be easily denied.

 

But make no mistake, Weekes's words are not the reason we enjoy and like Solas as a character.

[Xerrai]

I don't think blood magic was used to create the Veil. We are told the Veil isn't a physical barrier, but a vibration that repells the fade.

So he must have used or made something that was capable of producing and carrying a vibration so powerful, it could cause dissonance in the fade, splitting it in two.

 

Do I hear "a titan (or titan's heart) was used to make the veil" theorist coming in?

[German Soldier]

 

 

I mean sure, the player can feel all they want about a character, but that doesn't mean that they got their characterization right, or that they can tell other people that they're right, at least to an extent to what author has intended. In that regard they are indeed supreme authority, since it's THEIR creation, even if they can't control how audience members view them. And if we're trying to establish something about a character, but people can't come to the consensus based on evidence of the game, their word on that regard matters 

That's the main difference between us.

The writers aren't a supreme authority for me no matter what they said they can't make their vision manifest at the expense of my vision that would totally undermine their own world.

 If Jennifer Brandes Hepler say that Anders isn't a terrorist but a complex character that doesn't mean that she is right for me.

[Sah291]

Do I hear "a titan (or titan's heart) was used to make the veil" theorist coming in?

Haha yeah that's where my mind was going. Where would that kind of power come from? Could have come from the earth. Titans would have motive to fight against the Evanuris too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

That's the main difference between us.

The writers aren't a supreme authority for me no matter what they said they can't make their vision manifest at the expense of my vision that would totally undermine their own world.

 If Jennifer Brandes Hepler say that Anders isn't a terrorist but a complex character that doesn't mean that she is right for me.

Not the best comparison. A person can be a terrorist and a complex person. Those aren't mutually exclusive. Terrorism is just a form of warfare.

[Almostfaceman]

 

That's the main difference between us.

The writers aren't a supreme authority for me no matter what they said they can't make their vision manifest at the expense of my vision that would totally undermine their own world.

 If Jennifer Brandes Hepler say that Anders isn't a terrorist but a complex character that doesn't mean that she is right for me.

 

 

Ah, this is where I think you are confused. 

 

The writers made Anders blow up a church and they gave him the character motivations to do so. So, Anders blows up the church to start a war and he does so because he thinks the Templars need to lose control over the mages.

 

See, this is where you can't come along later and tell the writers they're wrong. You can't come along and say "No, Anders blows up the Chantry because he's mourning the death of Sir Pouncealot and loses his mind."

 

Well, you can say it but nobody will take you seriously.

 

But of course you can say the action is a terrorist action. The writers quite deliberately set it up as a terrible action that some would see as terrorist and some would not. 

[Xerrai]

 

That's the main difference between us.

The writers aren't a supreme authority for me no matter what they said they can't make their vision manifest at the expense of my vision that would totally undermine their own world.

 If Jennifer Brandes Hepler say that Anders isn't a terrorist but a complex character that doesn't mean that she is right for me.

 

That right. And that's fine.

 

Even when Rowling revealed that she always thought of Dumbledore as a homosexual, that doesn't mean every reader should have to accept that. Several continue reading Harry Potter with the interpretation that Dumbledore is straight. And that is totally ok. That's the beauty of interpretation.

 

But the important thing to remember is that while readers (or in this case, players) can interpret a character as being one thing, that does not mean the interpretor's view is the only valid one.

[German Soldier]

As usual you speak gibberish. Blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade - FACT. That we don't know yet what causes it is hardly unscientific; it simply means that we need more information.

As usual you are unable of understanding unless it fit your own world.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it attracts demon from the other side.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it can be used to gain access physically to it.

You don't know anything you are merely stating observations that cannot be falsified as such your criteria is anti-scientific.

[midnight tea]

Do I hear "a titan (or titan's heart) was used to make the veil" theorist coming in?

 

Hmmmm... yeah, not so sure about that theory. I mean, we can't say that maybe something of the Titan was used in the process, but I'm not entirely sure about its integral role.

 

But I'll allow myself a wild guess in this regard for now... I'd say that the Veil was created (well, in a sense) kinda like that:

 

 

 

Basically the idea of the Veil might have been implanted into the minds of people. You know, *someone* tricked people into believing it exists. Spirit!Cole even calls the Veil "fake" in Trespasser ;P

[maia0407]

As usual you are unable of understanding unless it fit your own world.
Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it attracts demon from the other side.
Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it can be used to gain access physically to it.
You don't know anything you are merely stating observations that cannot be falsified as such your criteria is anti-scientific.

Why can't observational data regarding blood magic be falsified?

Hypothesis: Blood magic makes it harder to enter the fade
Experiment: Have some mages use blood magic and others not use it. Measure how 'hard' it is for each group to enter fade.

Results of experiment support, falsify or are inconclusive in regards to the hypothesis.

[Hellion Rex]

Yes - blood magic makes it harder to enter the Fade. The reason for it is currently unknown.

I still find that bizarre considering it is used to part the Veil and summon demons into the material realm.

[roselavellan]

The authors aren't this supreme authority you think they may be and just because they wrote a character that doesn't mean that their vision should be in any way relevant for the perspective of the player.

 

Damn, why didn't I tell my teacher that when I had to write essays on Shakespeare??

[Sah291]

Hmmmm... yeah, not so sure about that theory. I mean, we can't say that maybe something of the Titan was used in the process, but I'm not entirely sure about its integral role.
 
But I'll allow myself a wild guess in this regard for now... I'd say that the Veil was created (well, in a sense) kinda like that:
 

 

 
Basically the idea of the Veil might have been implanted into the minds of people. You know, *someone* tricked people into believing it exists. Spirit!Cole even calls the Veil "fake" in Trespasser ;P

Which would mean removing it would involve altering people's memory, on a mass scale.

Cory was gonna do that by making himself a god, I figure. If you wanna spread a propaganda on a massive scale, that's one way to do it.

What in modern Thedas is currently repelling the fade? What was strengthened to close the breach? And what is being attacked now that he wants to bring it back down?

*tin foil hat*