4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Not sure about leading society, BUT... before the whole rebellion he was the guardian of Mythal - the effective head of pantheon - for whom he worked who knows how long and learned who knows how much (and you can actually hear that if you compare their dialogues, that he took after her quite a bit). There's evidence for him working for/with Mythal in Deep Roads section in Trespasser, and in post-epilogue scene she did call him an "old friend". There seems to be a lot of history there.

His advice for Sera also suggests that he was not just some rookie rebel who just knows how to break things - he offers advice that sounds like one for building a new government and power structure after overthrowing a previous system. And vaguely, but surely, the portion of dialogue with Sera AND some of his banter with Cassandra after he personal quest suggests that he was part of Evanuris earlier, probably in more than a position of 'guard dog' of Mythal.

Meh, I think that your theory of him being the "guardian of Mythal" is little more than conjecture at this point. We have no definitive proof of their relationship other than regarding each other as friends.

Also that mural of the Titan getting struck down by an Evanuris was attached to the Mythal codex of her triumph over the Titans so I actually think one of the elves is her in that particular mural.

[Almostfaceman]

Which would mean removing it would involve altering people's memory, on a mass scale.

 

 

Isn't that what happens with the Fear demon? It removes millions of people's memories of certain frightening events. 

 

[Xerrai]

Haha yeah that's where my mind was going. Where would that kind of power come from? Could have come from the earth. Titans would have motive to fight against the Evanuris too.

Yeah, I have read about the theory myself, and while it is one of the more believable theories I do abstain from outright supporting it. Mostly because we don't have much information on it. But it has good points.

 

Like how lyrium can possibly emit a "song/rhythm" that can reinforce the veil (which is, as you said, actually a vibration of sorts) and can therefore reject magic. And how a continuous barrier like the veil presumably need either a constant powerful source (like a titan, in this case) or a method by which energy is used to help maintain the veil (like an independent process that makes the veil like a thing of nature).

 

But the main question I have about the theory is how Solas would (presumably) get one to cooperate with him. We may not know much about Titans, but though I wouldn't put it beyond them to be able to feel distress when their people (dwarves) are in danger, we do not know if the Titans are able to conceptualize  more "complicated" things like laws, treaties and the concept of war.

 

You know, kind of like the "heart of the forest" trope where they may be aware of the general status of their ecosystem, but are incapable to reasoning beyond the most instinctive of impulses.

[Medhia_Nox]

So you're saying that when the developers come along and tell you what the characters motivations are, that they haven't had their meetings and already made all those decisions about the character? 

 

Everything that's been quoted has been about how the character was developed, how it started at first and how it ended up in the final draft. So we're at the end of the development cycle for Solas with regards to Inquisition and Trespasser. All committee meetings have been held and everyone's in agreement. 

 

My point is that some discussions from development notes have details Solas with much more overt villainous qualities from what I've read on the forums.  

 

NOTE:  I don't keep track of developers notes and I don't consider them part of my roleplay or part of the story because they are not in the story - so maybe those don't actually exist.

 

You've never heard of too many chefs in the kitchen?  

[midnight tea]

 

As usual you are unable of understanding unless it fit your own world.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it attracts demon from the other side.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it can be used to gain access physically to it.

You don't know anything you are merely stating observations that cannot be falsified as such your criteria is anti-scientific.

 

As usual your head is lodged deep into your nether areas.

 

The only thing I've made a statement about is that Solas doesn't use blood magic as for some reason makes it harder to cross to the Fade (btw. Solas was obviously talking about entering the Fade through dreams; that goes without saying). So the only thing I've made is an 'observation' on information given in the game, without going into any further detail. In fact I even stated that so far reasons for it are unknown and left it at that.

 

That you want to randomly pick a fight about something so neutral and small, apparently in order to make barely intelligible statements about my capacity to understand things and feel smug about it, speaks more about you than it can ever speak about me.

 

...But since we're at it: 

 

- attracting demons from the other side doesn't have to be incongruous with blood magic making it harder for Dreamers to enter the Fade through dreams

- blood magic can be used to enter the Fade physically, but that isn't incongruous with making it harder to enter the Fade via dreams. In fact it makes sense, since there's an emerging pattern. Blood magic appears to be correlated with physical, rather than forces of mind or raw Fade. But since we know too little about it at that point, we can't really make any more definite statements about the matter without more information emerging.

[maia0407]

Yeah, I have read about the theory myself, and while it is one of the more believable theories I do abstain from outright supporting it. Mostly because we don't have much information on it. But it has good points.

Like how lyrium can possibly emit a "song/rhythm" that can reinforce the veil (which is, as you said, actually a vibration of sorts) and can therefore reject magic. And how a continuous barrier like the veil presumably need either a constant powerful source (like a titan, in this case) or a method by which energy is used to help maintain the veil (like an independent process that makes the veil like a thing of nature).

But the main question I have about the theory is how Solas would (presumably) get one to cooperate with him. We may not know much about Titans, but though I wouldn't put it beyond them to be able to feel distress when their people (dwarves) are in danger, we do not know if the Titans are able to conceptualize more "complicated" things like laws, treaties and the concept of war.

You know, kind of like the "heart of the forest" trope where they may be aware of the general status of their ecosystem, but are incapable to reasoning beyond the most instinctive of impulses.

In Descent, the idea was mentioned that the Titans were causing the earthquakes as they were reacting to the breach. If the theory about Titans and the veil is correct, perhaps the Titans weren't reasoned with but manipulated into emitting songs/vibrations to create the veil. I don't really know how they would be manipulated. Maybe their connection to the fade, if they had one, was altered to get the vibration needed to raise the veil.

[German Soldier]

You can disagree with the writers about how well they may or may have not made him a sympathetic villain. 

Indeed because i see him as a megalomaniac with superiority race complexity and so far there are in-game evidences that support this vision.

 

But you can't disagree when they flat-out tell you the characters motivations. 

Disagree in what sense? I acknowleged what he want and that's why i see him the way i do.

 

You can dislike the motivations, but they have total control of the character and the story surrounding the character. 

Which kinda recall my previous point,i dislike those motivations who mostly revolve around magical preservation regardless of the dangers that it entails and i'm not wrong for it thus i see Solas as a Megalomaniac who wish to shape the wolrd for his own desire not as sympathetic.

[Hellion Rex]

Hold up though, while not necessarily affiliated with the the Fade, blood magic still appears correlated with the forces of the mind, and we have proof in DAI. The Grey Warden mages were being mentally controlled via blood magic by Corypheus. Enthrallment still falls under the "mind" category, I'm pretty sure.

[midnight tea]

Meh, I think that your theory of him being the "guardian of Mythal" is little more than conjecture at this point. We have no definitive proof of their relationship other than regarding each other as friends.

Also that mural of the Titan getting struck down by an Evanuris was attached to the Mythal codex of her triumph over the Titans so I actually think one of the elves is her in that particular mural.

 

We do have some actually - like I said, it's in Trespasser. Fen'Harel's statues have been found together with Mythal's statues (there's also a different abstract 'bird/dragon' statue that we find in other, open places when crossing eluvians - instead of 7 prongs/rays on its head it features only 2, signifying that it's an earlier iteration of a symbol likely used by Evanuris).

 

It just so happens that it's also in a mine that was opened aeons before the fall of Evanuris, as suggested by mural and rune on it, and closed some time before Fen'Harel's rebelion. The place was basically buried and the rune's author (90% it was Solas) advises for this place to never be visited again. Therefore Fen'Harel's statues couldn't realistically be put there after the rebellion, indicating that Solas was indeed in position of some authority in Elvenhan. 

 

There are also Cole's cryptic comments "He did not need a body but she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face". As vague as it is, more than 50% of Cole's comment are pretty surely about Solas. And while it is possible that "her" may not be Mythal, since we know he had long, complex relationship with her, she's the first candidate that springs to mind.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

As usual your head is lodged deep into your nether areas.

 

The only thing I've made a statement about is that Solas doesn't use blood magic as for some reason makes it harder to cross to the Fade (btw. Solas was obviously talking about entering the Fade through dreams; that goes without saying). So the only thing I've made is an 'observation' on information given in the game, without going into any further detail. In fact I even stated that so far reasons for it are unknown and left at it.

 

That you want to randomly pick a fight about something so neutral, apparently in order to make barely intelligible statements about my capacity to understand things and feel smug about it, speaks more about you than it can ever speak about me.

 

...But since we're at it: 

 

- attracting demons from the other side doesn't have to be incongruous with blood magic making it harder for Dreamers to enter the Fade through dreams

- blood magic can be used to enter the Fade physically, but that isn't incongruous with making it harder to enter the Fade via dreams. In fact it makes sense, since there's an emerging pattern. Blood magic appears to be correlated with physical, rather than forces of mind or raw Fade. But since we know too little about it at that point, we can't really make any more definite statements about the matter without more information emerging.

 

Solas doesn't use Blood Magic during the events of DAI because he is in a post Veil world where the Fade is separate from the real world. However, in a pre-Veil world, the Fade is not separate from the real world which means it should be perfectly fine to use Blood Magic since you don't need to "enter" the Fade back then because the Fade was all around you.

[midnight tea]

Hold up though, while not necessarily affiliated with the the Fade, blood magic still appears correlated with the forces of the mind, and we have proof in DAI. The Grey Warden mages were being mentally controlled via blood magic by Corypheus. Enthrallment still falls under the "mind" category, I'm pretty sure.

 

They aren't controlled by blood magic - they're controlled by blight magic (the bright red magic Cory uses is most definitely blight magic as it's been established as such in the narrative), and the Taint present in the Warden.

[Hellion Rex]

We do have some actually - like I said, it's in Trespasser. Fen'Harel's statues have been found together with Mythal's statues (there's also a different abstract 'bird/dragon' statue that we find in other, open places when crossing eluvians - instead of 7 prongs/rays on its head it features only 2, signifying that it's an earlier iteration of a symbol likely used by Evanuris).

 

It just so happens that it's also in a mine that was opened aeons before the fall of Evanuris, as suggested by mural and rune on it, and closed some time before Fen'Harel's rebelion. The place was basically buried and the rune's author (90% it was Solas) advises for this place to never be visited again. Therefore Fen'Harel's statues couldn't realistically be put there after the rebellion, indicating that Solas was indeed in position of some authority in Elvenhan. 

 

There are also Cole's cryptic comments "He did not need a body but she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face". As vague as it is, more than 50% of Cole's comment are pretty surely about Solas. And while it is possible that "her" may not be Mythal, since we know he had long, complex relationship with her, she's the first candidate that springs to mind.

Again, not seeing how that depicts him as her "guardian. And also, you have no proof whatsoever that the author of those runes was Solas. None whatsoever. So I have no idea where you are getting this "90%" at all. 

 

Also, how do you know the date at which the mine was opened? Aeons before the fall of the Evanuris? Where are you getting all of this from?

[midnight tea]

Solas doesn't use Blood Magic during the events of DAI because he is in a post Veil world where the Fade is separate from the real world. However, in a pre-Veil world, the Fade is not separate from the real world which means it should be perfectly fine to use Blood Magic since you don't need to "enter" the Fade back then because the Fade was all around you.

 

Not really sure how that relates to my post  Plus, we don't even know if the nature of the world that is Veiled (and possible awakened Titans, or another trip to Goldenn City) is really that similar to the nature of the world that is Veilles. The blood magic may work very differently in the latter. Like I said, so far we have very little information on that matter to make any definite conlcusions.

 

Also - even with the Fade being part of the natural world, there's still a distinction into 'dreaming' and 'unchanging' world in Veilless realm. We can read about it in Vir Dirthara.

[Hellion Rex]

They aren't controlled by blood magic - they're controlled by blight magic (the bright red magic Cory uses is most definitely blight magic as it's been established as such in the narrative), and the Taint present in the Warden.

I disagree, as that bright red magic is also seen when Corypheus tries to remove the Anchor during his attack on Haven. I have yet to see a correlation between blight magic and that of the Anchor/Fen'Harel's orb. Also, Erimond, who should have no dominion over the Blight, is shown using the same red magic when in the Western Approach right after that first Grey Warden dies during the cutscene to bring out a rage demon. You then see the red magic affect a Warden and enthrall him. It's clearly blood magic.

[midnight tea]

Again, not seeing how that depicts him as her "guardian. 

 

http://dragonage.wik...oads,_Section_1

 

"These statues are old. Better shape than anything I've seen on the surface. Many of them are for Mythal, though. And Fen'Harel. Not in a spot of honor, but guarding, attending.

 

Protector and All-Mother, why are you honored here, so far from the light of the sun? And why was the Dread Wolf at your side?"
 

 

And also, you have no proof whatsoever that the author of those runes was Solas. None whatsoever. So I have no idea where you are getting this "90%" at all. 

 

Also, how do you know the date at which the mine was opened? Aeons before the fall of the Evanuris? Where are you getting all of this from?

 

I do. The rune was placed on Solas's mural - and yes, all the large murals we can find are painted by Solas. If you don't want to believe me, we have confirmation on that from a RL author of the artworks, Nick Thornborrow, who posted them on his tumblr with description that they're indeed Solas's.

 

As for the rune's content, it goes like this:

"For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.

A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.

Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

A voice whispers:

 

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

There are also dev notes that describe that room as a place where Solas makes decision to rebel against the Evanuris.

 

So here, fairly compelling proof.

 

 

Also, how do you know the date at which the mine was opened? Aeons before the fall of the Evanuris? Where are you getting all of this from?

 

From the rune: "The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy."

 

Also, I'd like to point out that the mural is painted with somewhat different style than other - it's a bit more crude, as if it was painted by a less steady hand that hasn't yet developed the style fully. Basically, it's the earliest mural Solas has painted (from those we were presented with). And it depicts a triumph over a Titan, which is an event that - according to the rune - happened a very long time before the mine was shut.

[midnight tea]

I disagree, as that bright red magic is also seen when Corypheus tries to remove the Anchor during his attack on Haven. 

 

The Anchor's magic is green/yellowish-green, just like the Anchor. Any red magic surrounding it is belonging to Corypheus and it's a blight magic. The Orb itself doesn't emanate the magic with red color without Corypheus' grip over it - you can see it best when Corypheus starts losing control over it after the final battle, where the green power of magic begins to shine through, only for Inquisitor to pry the Orb from his grasp, which makes it immediately emanate only green light.

 

 

I have yet to see a correlation between blight magic and that of the Anchor/Fen'Harel's orb. Also, Erimond, who should have no dominion over the Blight, is shown using the same red magic when in the Western Approach right after that first Grey Warden dies during the cutscene to bring out a rage demon. You then see the red magic affect a Warden and enthrall him. It's clearly blood magic.

 

How do you know Erimond shouldn't have dominion over Blight magic? He's the one who summons RL dragon to Adamant, remember? With the same red magic. And RL dragon is Blighted to the core, nor we know anything of it reacting or being related or controllable with blood magic.

 

And no - no blood magic we ever know makes even Warden's eyes glow.

 

Actually, in the ritual scene we even see blood magic effects they use for.. well... blood magic. Same with Still Ruins. They're two different things as far as effects are concerned. Blood magic effects are basically streaks of blood (same was for other games), not emanating any light. Blight magic glows and has red color - same one as Red Lyrium, which we know is Blighted.

[Hellion Rex]

 

http://dragonage.wik...oads,_Section_1

 

"These statues are old. Better shape than anything I've seen on the surface. Many of them are for Mythal, though. And Fen'Harel. Not in a spot of honor, but guarding, attending.

 

Protector and All-Mother, why are you honored here, so far from the light of the sun? And why was the Dread Wolf at your side?"
 

 

I do. The rune was placed on Solas's mural - and yes, all the large murals we can find are painted by Solas. If you don't want to believe me, we have confirmation on that from a RL author of the artworks, Nick Thornborrow, who posted them on his tumblr with description that they're indeed Solas's.

 

As for the rune's content, it goes like this:

"For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy.

A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic.

Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.

A voice whispers:

 

"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

There are also dev notes that describe that room as a place where Solas makes decision to rebel against the Evanuris.

 

So here, fairly compelling proof.

 

 

From the rune: "The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy."

 

Also, I'd like to point out that the mural is painted with somewhat different style than other - it's a bit more crude, as if it was painted by a less steady hand that hasn't yet developed the style fully. Basically, it's the earliest mural Solas has painted (from those we were presented with). And it depicts a triumph over a Titan, which is an event that - according to the rune - happened a very long time before the mine was shut.

 

I can perhaps I can concede on that, but that said, the "Guardian" is still an interpretation by one elf millennia later. We do not know anything for sure right now.

 

Also, I'm gonna need some kind of source for this: "There are also dev notes that describe that room as a place where Solas makes decision to rebel against the Evanuris." --cause that's one hell of a claim to make

[Akiza]

 

You've never heard of too many chefs in the kitchen?  

 I have only heard about the murder  kitchen knife which is my favourite weapon in DA because is the closest to be an anti writer pets armor.

[midnight tea]

Which would mean removing it would involve altering people's memory, on a mass scale.

 

Well... it could happen, as I think I've already mentioned somewhere before on different occasion. In fact I think modifying memory on mass(ive?) scale is a thing that happens, at least according to Cole's cryptic comment, which seem to refer to either the Titans... or the Stone? 

 

"They've made bodies from the earht and the earth was afraid. It fought back, but they made her forget".

 

... while the other comment of Cole makes a suggestion that Titans are in fact a form of collective consciousness, hmmm...

 

 

 

Cory was gonna do that by making himself a god, I figure. If you wanna spread a propaganda on a massive scale, that's one way to do it.

 

What in modern Thedas is currently repelling the fade? What was strengthened to close the breach? And what is being attacked now that he wants to bring it back down?

 

Yeah, I sort of suspect that a large shift in perception is what *may* be a key to basically change reality, which - in a state where Fade is integral part of the world - can literally be shaped by will. The will of all (most)...? Maybe this is what the Chant means that 'the Maker will return when the Chant will be sang in all corners of the world?" Only, you know, sort of misinterpreted a few times :PPP

 

As for what in modern Thedas is repelling the Fade? Well... I'd say - people? Like, since they unconsciously reinforce the Veil with their false belief that the Veil is a real thing? Sort of sounds bizarre, but what I basically mean is that there might exist this sort of vicious circle here. The people believe that  the world is what it is, they believe in it, don't question it, and that itself reinforces the world as it is, together with the Veil. What should be attacked in order for that false perception of the world to give in? I have no idea. But considering that the Titans are suggested to be a form of collective consciousness, to which the Dwarves are tied, at the very least, maybe there exists another form of collective consciousness that can impact minds of humans or elves? Or maybe there's a place that it can be done from... like Black City perhaps?

 

...I'd probably shouldn't mention that this is wild, wild, wiiiiiiiild speculation, all that Just allowing myself a little bit of craziness here, but I'm not going to do much to try and defend it. So far there's just too little evidence for any of that. Just sort of a few of my hunches.

[Akiza]

The Anchor's magic is green/yellowish-green, just like the Anchor. Any red magic surrounding it is belonging to Corypheus and it's a blight magic. The Orb itself doesn't emanate the magic with red color without Corypheus' grip over it - you can see it best when Corypheus starts losing control over it after the final battle, where the green power of magic begins to shine through, only for Inquisitor to pry the Orb from his grasp, which makes it immediately emanate only green light.

 

 

 

Corypheus is also able to use the Orb in green form as he did at the conclave,he can use both forms.

[Illegitimus]

 

As usual you are unable of understanding unless it fit your own world.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it attracts demon from the other side.

Blood magic make it harder to enter the fade yet it can be used to gain access physically to it.

You don't know anything you are merely stating observations that cannot be falsified as such your criteria is anti-scientific.

 

 

I don't think Solas meant "it makes the veil stronger" or even "it weakens my own power to travel into the fade".  I figure the only way it makes it harder to the enter the fade is by making Fade more hostile.  I mean, what's easier, crossing over to an area of Fade that that is just populated by wisps, spirits mimicking the deceased and spirits of things like curiosity and honesty...or crossing over to a fade that has demons that have been attracted to slurp up that blood magicky goodness?  

[midnight tea]

I can perhaps I can concede on that, but that said, the "Guardian" is still an interpretation by one elf millennia later. We do not know anything for sure right now.

 

Also, I'm gonna need some kind of source for this: "There are also dev notes that describe that room as a place where Solas makes decision to rebel against the Evanuris." --cause that's one hell of a claim to make

 

Sure - though it would sort of make sense that he's a guardian, and the statues are described suggestively. Anyway, Mythal's guardian does seem more believable than Mythal's Accountant

 

Eh, knew that you'd ask for this - I just had some difficulty finding it outright, here it is: http://corseque.tumb...st/130122454682

 

the game file the user dug into are as thus:

"Inquisition’s game file’s description of this room (bolt_hole) is this:"

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I still find that bizarre considering it is used to part the Veil and summon demons into the material realm.

Yeah, I don't get that either. How can something that weakens the Veil make it harder to access the Fade?

[Hellion Rex]

 

Sure - though it would sort of make sense that he's a guardian, and the statues are described suggestively. Anyway, Mythal's guardian does seem more believable than Mythal's Accountant

 

Eh, knew that you'd ask for this - I just had some difficulty finding it outright, here it is: http://corseque.tumb...st/130122454682

 

the game file the user dug into are as thus:

"Inquisition’s game file’s description of this room (bolt_hole) is this:"

 

Well, I concede then.

 

And Mythal's Accountant does roll off the tongue well, no?

[midnight tea]

Corypheus is also able to use the Orb in green form as he did at the conclave,he can use both forms.

 

Yes, but the Orb in itself doesn't seem to be able to generate red magic - only green. That Corypheus can force some green magic out of it only means that he has partial control over it. I mean, if I remember Solas correctly, he states that Cory found a way to tap to Orb's powers, but not necessarily that he has full control over it. Probably why he couldn't pry the Anchor from Inky's hand, nor could recreate it in future Redcliffe (if that's possible).