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[straykat]

On a sidenote, you know what I hate? That he says no one has ever elevated an elf before?

 

Wtf... wtf.. Not only is my canon warden an elf, but freaking Garahel was too. His legacy is elves like this. Or others like Sera. They've become liberators and heroes in their own right. Maybe not how he pictured it, but wtf.

 

But I hate it more that the writers don't recognize it. That they just insist he go on a warpath regardless. And not see that this world is TRYING. Slowly maybe, but still. And with Divine Leliana, even moreso.

[The Elder King]

On a sidenote, you know what I hate? That he says no one has ever elevated an elf before?

 

Wtf... wtf.. Not only is my canon warden an elf, but freaking Garahel was too. His legacy is elves like this. Or others like Sera. They've become liberators and heroes in their own right. Maybe not how he pictured it, but wtf.

 

But I hate it more than the writers don't recognize it. That they just insist he go on a warpath regardless.

That might be based on his belief that the elves he consider his people aren't the ones currently in Thedas. I'm not sure about that though.

[straykat]

Maybe he should live with the role that he created new kind of elves.. and he's responsible.. a parent even. They need his help. Not his condemnation. And his better part lived on in them: A lot of them have stories of elven liberators whp took the "wolf" or "trickster" moniker in one form or another. Shartan especially (and no, I don't think he's Solas himself). He should be proud of it. These elves are awesome. Screw the ancient elves. And all magical hippies in general.

[Sah291]

@straykat, he doesn't say they never have before, but that it has been a long time. And I think he meant specifically in the context of a religious figure/leader. The Inquisitor is the Herald of Andraste.... in a religion that has stripped a lot of elven influence out of their own history. He also warns you humans have a habit of killing their prophets.  But indeed, he was trying to manipulate the elven Inquisitor in the scene. It's the scene where he reveals the elven origin of the orb, and tells you that the humans would retaliate and blame all elves when they found out. 

[Abyss108]

On a sidenote, you know what I hate? That he says no one has ever elevated an elf before?

 

Wtf... wtf.. Not only is my canon warden an elf, but freaking Garahel was too. His legacy is elves like this. Or others like Sera. They've become liberators and heroes in their own right. Maybe not how he pictured it, but wtf.

 

But I hate it more that the writers don't recognize it. That they just insist he go on a warpath regardless. And not see that this world is TRYING. Slowly maybe, but still. And with Divine Leliana, even moreso.

 

 

Well he says they have never raised one so high before, which is true. Garahel and the Warden might be heroes, but people didn't literally start bowing down to them and thinking they were sent by God. At the start of the city Elf origin there are some Elf kids playing as heroes, and they are playing as human heroes because they don't even seem to know Garahel existed. 

[straykat]

 

 

 

Well he says they have never raised one so high before, which is true. Garahel and the Warden might be heroes, but people didn't literally start bowing down to them and thinking they were sent by God. At the start of the city Elf origin there are some Elf kids playing as heroes, and they are playing as human heroes because they don't even seem to know Garahel existed. 

 

 

But people don't do that to hardly anyone. It's pretty stupid in general.

 

But importance and rank has happened before. Real, tangible things.

 

You're right about those stories for the CE. That is sad. That's the stuff I want to change. But I don't want to destroy the world for it. And besides that, Solas should know it.

[straykat]

@straykat, he doesn't say they never have before, but that it has been a long time. And I think he meant specifically in the context of a religious figure/leader. The Inquisitor is the Herald of Andraste.... in a religion that has stripped a lot of elven influence out of their own history. He also warns you humans have a habit of killing their prophets.  But indeed, he was trying to manipulate the elven Inquisitor in the scene. It's the scene where he reveals the elven origin of the orb, and tells you that the humans would retaliate and blame all elves when they found out. 

 

They've stripped Shartan, but there is no elven legacy in general. It's barbarian. And writing wise, it's based off Joan of Arc, Jesus, and Boudica. It's got more relation to struggles with Rome and imperial leadership.

 

And as far as Shartan goes, he doesn't care about him either, apparently. So even if they restored it, he's still an ass.

[Abyss108]

But people don't do that to hardly anyone. It's pretty stupid in general.

 

But importance and rank has happened before. Real, tangible things.

 

You're right about those stories for the CE. That is sad. That's the stuff I want to change. But I don't want to destroy the world for it. And besides that, Solas should know it.

 

 

But it hasn't really.

 

Original Inquisitor - forgotten about 

 

Garahel - not even known to other Elves in alienage

 

Shartan - removed from the chant

 

The Warden is the only one who is really remembered, and that's only if you play as an elf and Bioware couldn't really write that everyone forgot about that snowflake.

 

Solas didn't say that no Elf had accomplished anything (he might have some shitty beliefs on that subject, I wouldn't be surprised, but he doesn't say that here). He said that the humans hadn't raised one as high as they had to you. Which is true. They erased any Elf that did anything form history. And even if they didn't - they certainly hadn't named any as a messenger from God. 

[straykat]

That's too elven centric... no one has raised anyone that high. Elf or not. That should make anyone scratch their head, no matter your character. Especially for the little you do. You're nothing like Andraste. Especially in the beginning.  Andraste led a damn slave rebellion and marched an army across a continent. The closest you can come to liberating anyone is allying with the mages, but that's a huge irony in Chantry terms. And even that isn't very dramatic.

 

I think actions matter. Not these symbols and intangible things. Which is Solas' whole problem.. to get back on the subject a bit.

[midnight tea]

On a sidenote, you know what I hate? That he says no one has ever elevated an elf before?

 

Wtf... wtf.. Not only is my canon warden an elf, but freaking Garahel was too. His legacy is elves like this. Or others like Sera. They've become liberators and heroes in their own right. Maybe not how he pictured it, but wtf.

 

But I hate it more that the writers don't recognize it. That they just insist he go on a warpath regardless. And not see that this world is TRYING. Slowly maybe, but still. And with Divine Leliana, even moreso.

 

Er, no... he didn't say that nobody ever elevated an elf before. He said that the humans never elevated an elf as high as Herald/Inquisitor for "a time beyond memory" if I recall.

 

Garahel might have been popular, but he was at best at level of popularity of HoF. Shartan was only leader of elven slaves in Tevinter. Sera is mostly a hero for peasants and people of lower status and we can't even tell how many people really know or support her.

 

But Inqusitor is a hero for whole Southern Thedas, if not more, if people elsewhere recognize them for saving the entire world.

 

Which makes me wonder... who was that other elf?

 

... Was that Fen'Harel? ...Because who else?

[Abyss108]

I'm not sure what you mean with Solas' problem being related to symbols and intangible things... Should he be happy that every Elf who has accomplished anything has been erased from history? I don't think that's related to caring about symbols rather than actions - by removing them from history, humans are forgetting the actions they took and not giving them the credit they deserve.

[Mistic]

That's too elven centric... no one has raised anyone that high. Elf or not. That should make anyone scratch their head, no matter your character. Especially for the little you do. You're nothing like Andraste. Especially in the beginning.  Andraste led a damn slave rebellion and marched an army across a continent. The closest you can come to liberating anyone is allying with the mages, but that's a huge irony in Chantry terms. And even that isn't very dramatic.

 

Solas' literal words are "the humans have not raised one of our people so high for ages beyond counting". And he is right.

 

This is about the Inquisitor being considered a religious figure, practically a prophet to be worshipped. Actual achievements don't really matter. Andraste, Drakon, Hessarian, and even the Divines have had that kind of religious influence (so yes, humans have been raised that high and higher in known history) that no elf has tasted in thousands of years... precisely since the time of the Evanuris.

[The Elder King]

Er, no... he didn't say that nobody ever elevated an elf before. He said that the humans never elevated an elf as high as Herald/Inquisitor for "a time beyond memory" if I recall.

 

Garahel might have been popular, but he was at best at level of popularity of HoF. Shartan was only leader of elven slaves in Tevinter. Sera is mostly a hero for peasants and people of lower status and we can't even tell how many people really know or support her.

 

But Inqusitor is a hero for while Southern Thedas, if not more, if people elsewhere recognize them for saving the entire world.

 

Which makes me wonder... who was that other elf?

 

... Was that Fen'Harel? ...Because who else?

I'm not sure if Garahel wasn't more famous in his time then the HoF. The latter ended the Blight, in a way, before it spread to the rest of the world. and it was confined in one of the least considered regions in Thedas (though the accomplishment in itself was great, since it did with not a great army as the other Wardens had, and with only Alistair as the other Warden). Garahel's Blight, though not as long as the previous one was still more threatening to the rest of Thedas then the Fifth. Considering how famous he is in current Thedas, I think he was really, really famous back then.

 

 

Solas' literal words are "the humans have not raised one of our people so high for ages beyond counting". And he is right.

 

This is about the Inquisitor being considered a religious figure, practically a prophet to be worshipped. Actual achievements don't really matter. Andraste, Drakon, Hessarian, and even the Divines have had that kind of religious influence (so yes, humans have been raised that high and higher in known history) that no elf has tasted in thousands of years... precisely since the time of the Evanuris.

 

That's also true though. If we considered on this level, no elf was really raised on a prophet-like level before by humans.

[straykat]

I'm not sure what you mean with Solas' problem being related to symbols and intangible things... Should he be happy that every Elf who has accomplished anything has been erased from history? I don't think that's related to caring about symbols rather than actions - by removing them from history, humans are forgetting the actions they took and not giving them the credit they deserve.

 

He comments on the idea of the Inquisitor being raised that high, even though they've done little. There are many important elves, but apparently, the symbol is what really holds meaning now. Great. Yay.

 

Now I would agree that things shouldn't be erased from history.. but he should know better. He isn't ignorant.

[Seraphim24]

Actual achievements don't really matter. 

 

Of course they matter

[midnight tea]

He comments on the idea of the Inquisitor being raised that high, even though they've done little. There are many important elves, but apparently, the symbol is what really holds meaning now. Great. Yay.

 

Now I would agree that things shouldn't be erased from history.. but he should know better. He isn't ignorant.

 

The may have "done little", but they've already grown as a symbol of hope for Thedas. The Herald has survived the Conclave and emerged from the Fade unscathed. And now they posses the key to save whole Thedas from not just Breach, but unknown, Blighted terror from the past, that has an "archdemon" on the leas and an army of disfigured Templars, mages and possessed Wardens under his command.

[straykat]

The may have "done little", but they've already grown as a symbol of hope for Thedas. The Herald has survived the Conclave and emerged from the Fade unscathed. And now they posses the key to save whole Thedas from not just Breach, but unknown, Blighted terror from the past, that has an "archdemon" on the leas and an army of disfigured Templars, mages and possessed Wardens under his command.

 

It sounds real epic.

 

Don't mind me. I hate this story. I like Dragon Age, but this story spoils a lot of it for me, personally. But my point stands. It's a wonder why ANYONE is raised that high. It shouldn't be seen in just an elven light. It's just bizarre and unprecedented, period. Not even their own religion believes in Divine intervention... it all has to change to even make this story work.

[midnight tea]

@straykat, he doesn't say they never have before, but that it has been a long time. And I think he meant specifically in the context of a religious figure/leader. The Inquisitor is the Herald of Andraste.... in a religion that has stripped a lot of elven influence out of their own history. He also warns you humans have a habit of killing their prophets.  But indeed, he was trying to manipulate the elven Inquisitor in the scene. It's the scene where he reveals the elven origin of the orb, and tells you that the humans would retaliate and blame all elves when they found out. 

 

Wouldn't they? We can even hear people blaming elves for Cory and his mysterious orb in Inquisitor's own stronghold. And now, after Trespasser, when it turned out that elves were also in large part spies for the Qunari who wanted to blow up South?

Yeah, no wonder somebody calls them to gather and hide somewhere. Even with Inquisition and Chantry calling against it, I wouldn't be surprised if slaughter was imminent.

[Abyss108]

He comments on the idea of the Inquisitor being raised that high, even though they've done little. There are many important elves, but apparently, the symbol is what really holds meaning now. Great. Yay.

 

Now I would agree that things shouldn't be erased from history.. but he should know better. He isn't ignorant.

 

 

But he doesn't say anything like that, you are extrapolating a lot of things he never said.  All he says is that the humans have never given one of your people that kind of respect. And they haven't, even when they have deserved it.

 

Solas doesn't say those other elves didn't deserve respect. He wouldn't have started the conversation about how other Elves haven't been raised as high as you did if he thought other Elves hadn't deserved respect. 

[The Elder King]

It sounds real epic.

 

Don't mind me. I hate this story. I like Dragon Age, but this story spoils a lot of it for me, personally. But my point stands. It's a wonder why ANYONE is raised that high. It shouldn't be seen in just an elven light. It's just bizarre and unprecedented, period. Not even their own religion believes in Divine intervention... it all has to change to even make this story work.

DAO was an epic story though. Two young, recently adepts of the Wardens has to rally an entire country to face a evil that if unleashed would destroy said country, and the rest of the world. They have to do such whiile having the same country they're trying to protect against them since they're considered traitors.

[straykat]

But he doesn't say anything like that, you are extrapolating a lot of things he never said.  All he says is that the humans have never given one of your people that kind of respect. And they haven't, even when they have deserved it.

 

Solas doesn't say those other elves didn't deserve respect. He wouldn't have started the conversation about how other Elves haven't been raised as high as you did if he thought other Elves hadn't deserved respect. 

 

Anora and Alistair both say there's never been a more glorious Warden since your character. That's pretty respectful (even considering Garahel came before you... and humans revere Garahel as well. He's the biggest hero in their minds).

 

This Solas convo seems written for noobs or people who didn't play elves before.

[The Elder King]

Anora and Alistair both say there's never been a more glorious Warden since your character. That's pretty respectful (even considering Garahel came before you... and humans revere Garahel as well. He's the biggest hero in their minds).

 

This Solas convo seems written for noobs or people who didn't play elves before.

To be fair, he's the only one Warden who stopped the Blight that they know . 

The HoF Warden's actions are incredible since the Blight was actually stopped before it really started though. Nobody was able to do such (not considering the first one where nobody knew what to do).

[midnight tea]

That's him attempting to solve a problem he started, as far as I remember. 

 

Um, no  The Qunari have found eluvians on their own. Solas had nothing to do with their plans of sneaky invasion.

[straykat]

To be fair, he's the only one Warden who stopped the Blight that they know . 

The HoF Warden's actions are incredible since the Blight was actually stopped before it really started though. Nobody was able to do such (not considering the first one where nobody knew what to do).

 

That may be true. I always wondered who the other wardens were.

[Abyss108]

Anora and Alistair both say there's never been a more glorious Warden since your character. That's pretty respectful (even considering Garahel came before you... and humans revere Garahel as well. He's the biggest hero in their minds).

 

This Solas convo seems written for noobs or people who didn't play elves before.

 

 

Yes, because 2 people liking your character is the same as becoming a religious symbol of hope to Ferelden and Orlais for a religion that has historically subjugated your entire race and removed any mention of your people form the history books.