And if Solas didn't try to do his unlock the Orb plan, then none of any of this would have happened.
The Qunari merely sped up their plans to invade the south, and even then it was merely an excuse, as - if I recall correctly - they've been observing the crisis ever since mage-templar war. Plus, who would be there to stop them if Inquisition wasn't formed? Who could have been warned and cross eluvians?
The Qunari merely sped up their plans to invade the south, and even then it was merely an excuse, as - if I recall correctly - they've been observing the crisis ever since mage-templar war. Plus, who would be there to stop them if Inquisition wasn't formed? Who could have been warned and cross eluvians?
I recall that Sten said that they had plans to invade the south way before the events of DAII.
Ew, you're forgetting Sten already told us that his people plan to invade and he hopes to not meet us on the battlefield... well he tells me that because we're straight up homies.
I think it was pretty clear by their actions and the ending slides that the Qunari were rushing the invasion in Trespasser because of the Breach.
If they were really 100% sure they were ready to invade, they probably would have done so despire Dragon Breath's failure and they surely wouldn't be going after Tevinter just to delay the confrontation with the South
I recall that Sten said that they had plans to invade the south way before the events of DAII.
Yes, but what I mean is that it's possible that they'd have sped it up anyway if the templar-mage conflict wasn't resolved. Viddassala is all about curbing that pesky magic after all.
I think it was pretty clear by their actions and the ending slides that the Qunari were rushing the invasion in Trespasser because of the Breach.
If they were really 100% sure they were ready to invade, they probably would have done so despire Dragon Breath's failure and they surely wouldn't be going after Tevinter just to delay the confrontation with the South
Actually, the major reason appeared to have been the South not eliminating Inquisitor after the job done. You could still say that Inquisitor wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the Breach, but it was 2 years after Cory's defeat. Seems more like an excuse anyhow.
Actually, the major reason appeared to have been the South not eliminating Inquisitor after the job done. You could still say that Inquisitor wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the Breach, but it was 2 years after Cory's defeat. Seems more like an excuse anyhow.
"The day we saw the Breach, The Qun decided its action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil"
"The day we saw the Breach, The Qun decided its action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil"
Yeah, but they were going to invade anyway. Sten told us that.
I fall on the side that it was an inevitability. Solas doing nothing ultimately would mean nothing. The Qunari would find another excuse to invade, the Qun demands it.
Just going to agree to disagree here. Solas can be blamed for some things - the Qun ain't one of 'em.
Yeah, but they were going to invade anyway. Sten told us that.
I fall on the side that it was an inevitability. Solas doing nothing ultimately would mean nothing. The Qunari would find another excuse to invade, the Qun demands it.
Just going to agree to disagree here. Solas can be blamed for some things - the Qun ain't one of 'em.
Didn't say they would not have invaded, i (and others) said that the Breach (so by proxy Solas) made them act sooner than even they had anticipated
Didn't say they would not have invaded, i (and others) said that the Breach (so by proxy Solas) made them act sooner than even they had anticipated
Which is on Qunari anyhow. The plan to invade appears to have been pushed in time anyway, since from things Sten says it seems like he was sent to check on the Blight to see if it's a threat to Qunari while they invade. They actually did the same with the Breach - they might say that they've decided to speed up their plan, yet they waited for Inquisition and the South deal with the crisis and aside from sending Bull to try and get close to Inky and offering limited assisted to Inquisition, they didn't move a finger for 3-4 years.
Plus, Solas didn't have to move a finger to stop them; in fact I can't see how either letting Qunari kill the Southern leadership OR let Inquisitor do the job of killing them and not save him wouldn't be beneficial for him.
After all, according to some, he's not supposed to care at all.
Plus, Solas didn't have to move a finger to stop them; in fact I can't see how either letting Qunari kill the Southern leadership OR let Inquisitor do the job of killing them and not save him wouldn't be beneficial for him.
I can. Such things will cause chaos, as Solas states, and chaos can interrupt his plans whereas peace would not.
I can. Such things will cause chaos, as Solas states, and chaos can interrupt his plans whereas peace would not.
I think you forgot the rest of the comment: "Your death would cause more senseless chaos, more bloodshed, it is unnecessary. Though I doubt you'd thank me."
Way to take things out of context - to spin Solas's quote that is pretty much evidence that he indeed cares enough to avoid chaos caused to people into "your death would cause more chaos and that would interrupt my plans."
Plus, I think you forgot about someone now working in secret to interrupt his plans 
I think you forgot the rest of the comment: "Your death would cause more senseless chaos, more bloodshed, it is unnecessary. Though I doubt you'd thank me."
Way to take things out of context - to spin Solas's quote that is pretty much evidence that he indeed cares enough to avoid chaos caused to people into "your death would cause more chaos and that would interrupt my plans."
Plus, I think you forgot about someone now working in secret to interrupt his plans
I wasn't taking things out of context. I was just saying it is tactically and strategically wise to have those who can oppose you in a sense of peace rather than chaos. History is full of examples where this mindset works. It has nothing to do with if he cares or not. Can you please try not to read every post I post as trying to drag Solas down? If anything I was complimenting his skills as a strategist and tactician.
As for the Inquisitor working in secret to stop him, at this point it's pretty safe to say Solas is arrogant(his name literally means Pride) and thinks the Inquisitor can't stop him, though welcomes the attempt if you're friendly with him.
"The day we saw the Breach, The Qun decided its action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil"
I wasn't taking things out of context. I was just saying it is tactically and strategically wise to have those who can oppose you in a sense of peace rather than chaos. History is full of examples where this mindset works. It has nothing to do with if he cares or not. Can you please try not to read every post I post as trying to drag Solas down? If anything I was complimenting his skills as a strategist and tactician.
I am *not* talking in a context of dragging Solas down. You've made definite statement ("chaos can interrupt his plans whereas peace would not") when the full quote was about avoidance of unnecessary bloodshed. Even earlier he makes pretty explicit statements about why he stopped the Qun - not spreading chaos on innocents on the South and giving them a peace of mind. That part we can be pretty certain of and it means what it means.
But neither of us can be certain that "sense of peace rather than chaos" is beneficial or detrimental for him, especially that chaos seems to be simply pushed farther North, to Tevinter, and this is likely where most of the future game will take place.
As for "it is tactically and strategically wise to have those who can oppose you in a sense of peace rather than chaos."... well that makes no sense. Not in the context of the situation at least, because a.) those who oppose him will not be in 'sense of peace', but will be preparing and reorganizing themselves, as well as actively working against him, and b.) now they have far higher chances to work or collect resources necessary to work against him without having to deal with chaos surrounding their homebase and destroying their allies...
Especially that no matter of Inqusition's Inky's relationship with the chosen Divine, or whether it's disbanded or not, Inquisition has support of the reformed Chantry. They may not have as much say in, for example, matters of Orlais or Ferelden, but it's safe to assume that their coffers are full, nobody will try and invade their base and they have all this secret knowledge and artifacts they brought home from their adventures.
As for the Inquisitor working in secret to stop him, at this point it's pretty safe to say Solas is arrogant(his name literally means Pride) and thinks the Inquisitor can't stop him, though welcomes the attempt if you're friendly.
The word pride doesn't denote 'arrogance'. It's the excess of pride - hubris - that is a form of arrogance, which in itself shows us that there are many types of the feeling. To be proud of something is not in itself a negative thing.
'Right
Facepalm all you want; doesn't take anything from my final point anyway - regardless of trying to pin the blame on Solas for 'speeding up' Qunari invasion, it remains a fact that he effectively stopped it, at least on the South.
Me, stating something that is both implied and straight up said throughout the DLC. The hate for Solas is, quite obviously, dripping from every word, as (only) you can see
I think it was pretty clear by their actions and the ending slides that the Qunari were rushing the invasion in Trespasser because of the Breach.
If they were really 100% sure they were ready to invade, they probably would have done so despire Dragon Breath's failure and they surely wouldn't be going after Tevinter just to delay the confrontation with the South
You, stating something (in)correct and, so sure of your (in)correctness, even going on to provide an "excuse" that you thought evil me could have used (btw, The Inquisitor wouldn't have happened without the Breach)
Actually, the major reason appeared to have been the South not eliminating Inquisitor after the job done. You could still say that Inquisitor wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the Breach, but it was 2 years after Cory's defeat. Seems more like an excuse anyhow.
Me, bringing forth proof
"The day we saw the Breach, The Qun decided its action. We would remove your leaders and spare those who toil"
Meanie me once again, stating (for the second time in one page of topic) my stance on the matter. The hate level here is over 9000
Didn't say they would not have invaded, i (and others) said that the Breach (so by proxy Solas) made them act sooner than even they had anticipated
You, after being proven wrong, going in one of your long-winded non-justifications that make complete sense and that i, for one, always take under serious scrutiny
Which is on Qunari anyhow. The plan to invade appears to have been pushed in time anyway, since from things Sten says it seems like he was sent to check on the Blight to see if it's a threat to Qunari while they invade. They actually did the same with the Breach - they might say that they've decided to speed up their plan, yet they waited for Inquisition and the South deal with the crisis and aside from sending Bull to try and get close to Inky and offering limited assisted to Inquisition, they didn't move a finger for 3-4 years.
Plus, Solas didn't have to move a finger to stop them; in fact I can't see how either letting Qunari kill the Southern leadership OR let Inquisitor do the job of killing them and not save him wouldn't be beneficial for him.
After all, according to some, he's not supposed to care at all.
In other words, hand meets face and stays there for five minutes
If you and Solas aren't. friends, he also points out he doesn't like the qunari.
Me, stating something that is both implied and straight up said throughout the DLC. The hate for Solas is, quite obviously, dripping from every word, as (only) you can see
... So you accuse me of exaggeration while making exaggerations. Not the best strategy, that.
Not to mention that you've missed my point by quite a bit.
Since you quoted my points you can see clearly with your own eyes that I've never made any statements in attempt to make looks Solas entirely blameless or anything of the sort. But what amuses me in this whole thing is simply the notion that since he's contributed to the crisis it is used to try and invalidate the fact that he saved the South from invaders, by shifting the blame squarely on him, while downplaying both the fact that the Qunari would likely use any opportunity to invade whenever it's convenient for them AND cutting the one most responsible for the Breach - Corypheus himself.
And before you bring more of your colorful descriptions of 'dripping hatred' - show me a place anywhere in the thread where I even accused you of one? You may dislike Solas, mildly dislike Solas or like him - doesn't change the fact that you have made certain statements about his character of motivation *and* you have something of a tendency to react with oversimplifications and exaggerations, exemplified by the fact that I have never 'dripped hatred' at you myself or dismissed you with accusations of hate and wrote pretty much entirely neutrally about the whole thing, willing to discuss it - yet you choose to interpret it in least charitable way possible and unnecessarily resorted to mockery.
You, after being proven wrong, going in one of your long-winded non-justifications that make complete sense and that i, for one, always take under serious scrutiny
If you and Solas aren't. friends, he also points out he doesn't like the qunari.
The exact quote is "I must do what I must, but there is no benefit in allowing harm to come to innocents before it's necessary. And the Qunari offended me."
As for the Inquisitor working in secret to stop him, at this point it's pretty safe to say Solas is arrogant(his name literally means Pride) and thinks the Inquisitor can't stop him, though welcomes the attempt if you're friendly with him.
I'm not so sure: a line of his friendly dialogue does seem to imply that he is deliberately keeping himself from saying too much least the Inquisitor figures his plan out.
Solas: "A good question but not one I will answer. You've always shown a thoughtfulness I respected. It would be too easy to tell you too much."
I'm not so sure: a line of his friendly dialogue does seem to imply that he is deliberately keeping himself from saying too much least the Inquisitor figures his plan out.
Solas: "A good question but not one I will answer. You've always shown a thoughtfulness I respected. It would be too easy to tell you too much."
I was referring to if you choose to redeem him.
Inquisitor: "You don't need to destroy this world. I'll prove it to you."
Solas: "I will treasure the chance to be wrong once again, my friend."
It sounds real epic.
Don't mind me. I hate this story.I like Dragon Age, but this story spoils a lot of it for me, personally. But my point stands. It's a wonder why ANYONE is raised that high. It shouldn't be seen in just an elven light. It's just bizarre and unprecedented, period. Not even their own religion believes in Divine intervention... it all has to change to even make this story work.
This is the one problem that I have with the depiction of the Maker faith in DAI (not going to refer specifically to Andrastianism since belief in the Maker existed before she came along). The cornerstone of that faith is the belief that the Maker has abandoned His children because of various sins. This is even mentioned by Leliana during her emotional crisis conversation in Haven. But aside from that it's not stated again as far as I can recall.
I actually like using this aspect of it (the abandonment) as the basis for my Andrastian Inquisitor's struggle's with his faith; he's been taught that the Maker is absent his entire life, and suddenly here He is supposedly intervening and everyone seems to accept that? It is extremely frustrating to have these conversations with Giselle and the Spirit Divine that completely disregard this element.
Jealous ? Of The Egghead ? I simply don't like him because he stands against everything my protagonist stands for.
My protagonist's stances:-
1) Magic is like fire or water. It can be beneficial in moderation but highly devastating in excess without regulations and control. As such, magic must be regulated and supervised. The implication of this is that the Circles of Magi must exist in some form or another and reformed to curb abuses.
2) Justice, not vengeance. If someone did something wrong or is accused of doing something wrong, we apprehend them, we investigate, we have a trial and punishments are dealt with accordingly. That's how civilized people do things and the last thing we should be doing is going on a killing spree out of vengeance.
3) Elves need to let go of their past which they know very little about and strive to build a future on their own terms. Elves should strive to restore diplomatic relations with Humans and work with them whenever they get the chance. This is why a Celene-Briala alliance and/or having Leliana as the Divine would be a very good thing for the Elves.
Here is what Solas does:-
1) He wants magic to be practiced freely without any regulations or oversight whatsoever.
2) He allowed Corypheus to find his Orb, to use it to blow up the Conclave, kill lots of people and he gets away with it. Later in Trespasser, we discover that he plans to commit mass murder himself and once again, get away scot-free. For all I know, Solas should be on trial for aiding and abetting a mass murderer and for attempted mass murder, not walking away as though he did nothing wrong.
3) He behaved in a rather uncivilized manner towards the mages that tortured and turned his spirit friend. Yes their crimes are heinous, but we have the judiciary and we have prisons for a reason. My protagonist stayed Leliana from killing a spy because it was cold, treating people like trash. But when the moment came to stay Solas's hand against the mages that had done harm to his friend, I just feel my protagonist would have let him do what he needed to do. go ahead, Solas. A few strong words, maybe a punch or two. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his choices and he literally incinerated a couple mages that had no clue this elf was about to kill them. It wasn't a duel, it was calculated and swift rage. Meaning Solas, when pushed and hurt emotionally, resorts to very strong violence - Which is further reinforced in Trespasser where he reveals that he created the Veil and banished all the Evanuris for killing Mythal, which resulted in the doom of the Elven race as a whole.
4) He does not view modern Elves as his people and is practically indifferent to efforts made to strengthen Elf-Human relationships. Worse still, he has no problems killing the modern Elves, who are the result of his actions, because he wants to make the world safer for some ancient Elves .
5) He is a hypocrite. His famous words:- "Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist". Yet he has no intention to face the music for what he has done and he has no problem with denying the right of existence to people who live in the post-Veil world.
Given all this, why would I like him ? Because he is "complicated" ? Being "complex" is not a virtue. Because he is well written ? Vivienne is well written and I don't like her very much either. Because he approves every time you ask him questions ? Not really, he disapproves when you start asking questions about himself. Because he saved the Inquisitor and southern Thedas from the Qunari ? Both the Inquisitor and the Qunari those are the result of his rash action of giving his Orb to Corypheus in the first place.
This is the one problem that I have with the depiction of the Maker faith in DAI (not going to refer specifically to Andrastianism since belief in the Maker existed before she came along). The cornerstone of that faith is the belief that the Maker has abandoned His children because of various sins. This is even mentioned by Leliana during her emotional crisis conversation in Haven. But aside from that it's not stated again as far as I can recall.
I actually like using this aspect of it (the abandonment) as the basis for my Andrastian Inquisitor's struggle's with his faith; he's been taught that the Maker is absent his entire life, and suddenly here He is supposedly intervening and everyone seems to accept that? It is extremely frustrating to have these conversations with Giselle and the Spirit Divine that completely disregard this element.
I could be wrong, but isn't there a thing about the Andrastian faith that says Andraste is by the seat of the Maker trying to talk him into coming back or helping out? I think that's why people start calling the Quizzy "the Herald of Andraste" because Andraste isn't seen as a person who has abandoned creation.
Um, no
The Qunari have found eluvians on their own. Solas had nothing to do with their plans of sneaky invasion.
They would not be drawn to Southern Thedas had Solas not given the Orb to Corypheus who created the Breach and the resulting mini-rifts.
Also, they attacked the Inquisition because they suspected the Inquisition to be working with Fen'Harel.
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