4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Xerrai]

 
I've been wondering about this.
 
I've only played through Trespasser once on release, so I don't recall much. How is this portrayed in the game? Is he actively deceiving them? Is he just allowing them to think a certain way without correcting them? I do feel there is a distinction between the two. Do these elves know what they're getting into? Do they believe Solas is more than he is -- that is, an actual god? Do they know what he's planning and think that it won't affect them? Do they not realize, or perhaps not fully understand, his distinction between the ancient and modern elves? Can they know something that the player might not?

 

I suppose the most significant question to me is about the active versus passive deception. It just seem to me that most people, regardless of origin, would be terrified at the prospect Solas's plans. Granted, we (the players) don't know the full scope of his plans either, only what he purports them to be in that brief dialogue.

 

On the other hand, it appears to be presented as the downtrodden elves latching onto any scheme, and therefore its author, if it would change the current world they live and suffer in.

As others are said, we are not sure.

But apparently elves are willing to take on just about any cause so long as they think it will change things for them. I can't say I blame them either, being universal second class citizens that can be oppressed legally (and is in fact culturally accepted) can be particularly harrowing. I can't blame them too much for taking up a cause.

 

But we do not know if they are either ignorant of the details of Solas's plan, or if they have information that we are not privy to. But I am betting the former, seeing as how I do not see Solas giving trade secrets to the lower rung of his rebellion.

[The Elder King]

You should tell that to his fans here who think that Solas care for them and view them as people.

I do think he considers them people. Not his people though. 

 

I don't even really know what you are saying anymore to be honest, sorry.

It's ok. Basically I don't rank characters' abilities and powers by the gameplay.

[Seraphim24]

I do think he considers them people. Not his people though. 

 

It's ok. Basically I don't rank characters' abilities and powers by the gameplay.

 

Well that makes no sense to me, but whatever.

[IllustriousT]

If Levellan states to Solas "So we were pawns."

 

He responds, "You were people, and you deserved better...like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another."

 

This pretty much confirms that he uses people, and the elves wouldn't be any different...so I tend to agree that he probably hasn't told his rebellion the true nature of his intentions. 

[Sah291]

I've been wondering about this.

I've only played through Trespasser once on release, so I don't recall much. How is this portrayed in the game? Is he actively deceiving them? Is he just allowing them to think a certain way without correcting them? I do feel there is a distinction between the two. Do these elves know what they're getting into? Do they believe Solas is more than he is -- that is, an actual god? Do they know what he's planning and think that it won't affect them? Do they not realize, or perhaps not fully understand, his distinction between the ancient and modern elves? Can they know something that the player might not?

I suppose the most significant question to me is about the active versus passive deception. It just seem to me that most people, regardless of origin, would be terrified at the prospect Solas's plans. Granted, we (the players) don't know the full scope of his plans either, only what he purports them to be in that brief dialogue.

On the other hand, it appears to be presented as the downtrodden elves latching onto any scheme, and therefore its author, if it would change the current world they live and suffer in.

It's not clear. Given Solas' personality, and the way he interacts with the Inquisitor in general... Letting people assume what they like about him without correcting them, but not outright lying, seems to be his pattern.

I think it's clear by the end of Tresspasser, the elves do know they are rallying to the cause of Fen'Harel and what that means. But do they really know the details? They may not know he is the original Fen'Harel from legend, and not just an elf who follows/worships him, or a name/title he took on as a symbol. I mean, the name was always more of a title for him after all, even in his day.

But no, it's not clear if his ancient elven and modern elven followers know about each other, or about the Veil, and what is going to happen.

Edit:

Given some of the advice he gives Sera, I'm guessing his followers are not all part of the same group, don't all have the same knowledge, and may not all be aware of what each other is doing...and that might be intentional, to keep his movement divided, and harder to defeat.

It also seems like some of his spies in the Inquisition thought the Inquisitor was in on it too. Or at least that the Dalish Inquistitor was, and so did the Qunari apparently. So more evidence he lets them assume what they want to believe. If there are rumors about him being an elven god returned to lead the elven people, Solas isn't the type to confirm or deny being a god openly.

[The Elder King]

Well that makes no sense to me, but whatever.

I think that's not the right topic where to discuss this anyway. Let's just agree to disagree

[dawnstone]

I have to segregate story/lore and gameplay because in the latter things like Howe, Loghain, or Zevran being decapitated in combat might happen, while havign their head well attached to their neck in the following dialogue. And that's without considering the many, many things that can happen during gameplay that make no sense for the lore.

Though I shouldn't have said that you have to do so. That's just my stance.

It doesn't change the fact that Solas wasn't at his best during Inquisition, and that he's not stronger then during that time.

I kind of headcanon that he had to relearn how to use magic over the past year or so, because the Veil didn't exist in his time. Therefore, he's powerful and skilled at using magic in a general sense, but a bit slower than someone who grew up doing magic under the Veil.  An example of him discussing how to use the Veil to enhance or change spells is in this dialogue with Dorian:

 

• Solas: I notice you used a nullification enchantment combined with an offensive attack.
• Dorian: The nullification disrupts any ambient magic lying about. Things then burn hotter.
• Solas: Don't you then waste an inordinate amount of magic overcoming your own nullification?
• Dorian: Ah, no. I warp the Veil slightly to effect distance between the spells.
• Solas: Of course. Have you considering snapping the Veil-warp to enhance the relative energy?
• Dorian: Like cracking a whip? Yes, tried it once. Made my teeth taste funny.

Not only does Solas seem to learn something new, but extrapolates how to make an additional effect, which Dorian quickly shoots down.

[Almostfaceman]

Do you think Flemeth and Mythal, or possibly Morrigan and Mythal, will side with Solas to fight the Evanuris or that they will side with him period?

 

I can see the first possibility happening, but the second not really. Personally i see her as the opposite of Solas, most of all because she (they?) really has done nothing to damage the world (that we know of) or to make it as it was, in fact i dare say she tried to protect it whenever she could even if she didn't have to (most of all in Origins)

 

She's Solas' opposite, in my opinion, and the fact that she's human is a visual rapresentation of that

 

That's an interesting question. I think Morrigan, being raised outside of society to preserve and restore the magical wonders of that world may very well side with Solas because he represents a restoration of the wonders of Thedas. And Mythal, well, Solas is her bud. I think she willingly gave him some of her power so he could get the ball rolling on tearing down the Veil. So I theorize they'd be on his side, period. 

[The Elder King]

I kind of headcanon that he had to relearn how to use magic over the past year or so, because the Veil didn't exist in his time. Therefore, he's powerful and skilled at using magic in a general sense, but a bit slower than someone who grew up doing magic under the Veil.  An example of him discussing how to use the Veil to enhance or change spells is in this dialogue with Dorian:

 

• Solas: I notice you used a nullification enchantment combined with an offensive attack.
• Dorian: The nullification disrupts any ambient magic lying about. Things then burn hotter.
• Solas: Don't you then waste an inordinate amount of magic overcoming your own nullification?
• Dorian: Ah, no. I warp the Veil slightly to effect distance between the spells.
• Solas: Of course. Have you considering snapping the Veil-warp to enhance the relative energy?
• Dorian: Like cracking a whip? Yes, tried it once. Made my teeth taste funny.

Not only does Solas seem to learn something new, but extrapolates how to make an additional effect, which Dorian quickly shoots down.

That's an interesting theory. 

Anyway, he was surely weaker Inquisition then he was before or he's now, regardless of the gameplay, since it'd have been stated if he was more powerful then the other mages in the group.

[Xerrai]

Do you think Flemeth and Mythal, or possibly Morrigan and Mythal, will side with Solas to fight the Evanuris or that they will side with him period?

 

I can see the first possibility happening, but the second not really. Personally i see her as the opposite of Solas, most of all because she (they?) really has done nothing to damage the world (that we know of) or to make it as it was, in fact i dare say she tried to protect it whenever she could even if she didn't have to (most of all in Origins)

 

She's Solas' opposite, in my opinion, and the fact that she's human is a visual rapresentation of that

Ah here's a theory:

That she will help Solas tear down the veil and defeat the blighted evanuris but instead of creating a land exclusively for elves (Solas's plan), she will focus on making a New Age that is for everyone regardless of race.

An ideal Solas had but could never find a way to accomplish reliably.

 

And the New Age would not just be for every mortal race either, but for every being that was denied a true life under the veil (Titans, certain nature spirits, dragons/old gods, etc).

 

It sounds so sappy. So happy-go-lucky. Like a fairytale ending. So much so that it almost makes me sick. Too bad there is still the blight and bad people to deal with--as there always is. Flemeth is probably going to kill malcontents that really want to enforce the former status quo. But other than that life will be as you expect it: bad people and good people and everything in between.

 

Solas will probably do something like get tainted, lock himself away for all eternity while at the same time making himself a being that can 'contain' or at least slow down the blight significantly. The best you can do for him is allowing his friend/beloved to give him a few kind words (and maybe touches) before he sacrifices himself. I really can't see anything better than a bittersweet ending for Solas, given how Weekes pretty much is writing him as a tragic character with "basic sadness". That is literally a recipe for a character who is not going to have a happy ending. 

[Shechinah]

Well I see this will go on forever, anyway, have fun, and all that.

 

Well what about this, isn't he kind of a sucky character? I mean seriously Dorian is a better mage isn't he, by like a ton. Heck isn't Vivienne better?

 

"Most powerful being ever" my rumples, he can't DPS his way out of a paper bag.

 

Solas starts out at level one but has the excuse of having been comatosed for centuries: what's their excuse?

 

Joking aside, I've never had any gameplay trouble with Solas but I do tend to use him primarily for "healing" and crowd control. Basically, spirit and winter. I relied on my own for dps though I kept some versatility by going for some spirit spells as well as the ice wall spell. The latter is very useful when you want a rift closed quickly because you can basically barricade yourself so by the time, the wall breaks, the rift has taken a hit. I loved the lightning spells and their visual effects.      

[Xerrai]

Solas starts out at level one but has the excuse of having been comatosed for centuries: what's their excuse?

 

Joking aside, I've never had any gameplay trouble with Solas but I do tend to use him primarily for "healing" and crowd control.   

Solas was actually one of the better mages in my party roster. He could actually do something while he stands far away from the danger, and is pretty good support if you let him gain acsess to the lower part of the spirit skill tree. He weakens enemies while never directly confronting them (sounds like Solas).

 

Meanwhile as soon as you give Vivienne a spectral blade, she goes in headfirst and get herself killed. Even when I give her barrier with the passive ice shield and mana surge, she's still dying. Then when I unequip that blade, she's still useless. I'm growling in the background like "Solas would have barrier around me right about now....and not using it on himself. What the hell Vivi!?"

 

And Dorian is fabulous when you give him fire, but he cannot utilize his own necromancy specialization on his own. Constantly cancelling his own fears by attacking the same target, using fear on the most inconsequential things, etc. Maybe he does things a certain way, but he still dies a bit too much. Like bae, I love you but you gotta stop burning everything, it gets all the attention coming over to you and I know you like that, but that means death. And I know thats your thing too but still.

[The Elder King]

Solas starts out at level one but has the excuse of having been comatosed for centuries: what's their excuse?

 

Joking aside, I've never had any gameplay trouble with Solas but I do tend to use him primarily for "healing" and crowd control. Basically, spirit and winter. I relied on my own for dps though I kept some versatility by going for some spirit spells as well as the ice wall spell. The latter is very useful when you want a rift closed quickly because you can basically barricade yourself so by the time, the wall breaks, the rift has taken a hit. I loved the lightning spells and their visual effects.      

That's another reason I don't judge character's ability based on gameplay. If we consider gameplay all characters, no matter how strong or experience they are, start at the first or a low level.

[Addictress]

Why? It's still a video game. Sometimes I think the people harping the story fanatics should focus on things like "Are they good at the game? Can they win?" "Do they have a strategy for winning?"

Because believe it or not it's just a video game at the end of the day.

Analyzed on a game dimension, Solas is a profoundly crap character it seems to me, weak fragile and you have no use for him compared to the other available mages.

Solas was consistently the strongest, most useful mage throughout the game for me. His focus power is unrivalled. Dorian dies ASAP and Vivienne is OK but Solas tends to take the ice route which is invaluable. He rarely dies.

[Addictress]

Solas was my tank mage. He was like the most elite and indisposable companion for tough fights.

[lynroy]

Why? It's still a video game. Sometimes I think the people harping the story fanatics should focus on things like "Are they good at the game? Can they win?" "Do they have a strategy for winning?"

 

Because believe it or not it's just a video game at the end of the day.

 

Analyzed on a game dimension, Solas is a profoundly crap character it seems to me, weak fragile and you have no use for him compared to the other available mages.

l2p (joking)

Srsly, they all have the same available abilities other than their specializations.

[Addictress]

Pull of the abyss and firestorm are the most amazing abilities oh my gosh

[Seraphim24]

Necromancer is way better than Rift Mage.

 

WAY better.

 

KE is also quite strong, better than RM, RM is the weakest.

 

Therefore, Solas is the weakest.

[dawnstone]

Pull of the abyss and firestorm are the most amazing abilities oh my gosh

Seriously, I made my rogue an assassin and had Solas in the back for support & to keep barriers up on everyone, and after a certain point my party never died it was just a matter of wearing down the enemies. I did use Dorian in the boss battle in JoH though, because Haste was really useful when they were trying to kill everyone, before the Hakkonites froze up all the braziers.

[Baboontje]

In my opinion, Necromancer is way better than Rift Mage.

 

WAY better, in my opinion.

 

KE is also quite strong, better than RM, RM is the weakest, in my opinion.

 

Therefore, in my opinion, Solas is the weakest.

 

There, corrected that for you. As not everyone might share that same sentiment. I sure don't. And you don't need to try and convince me with damage numbers as I don't care about that and play with what I enjoy. Not because it tops the damage charts or whatever nonsense.

 

I vastly prefer the Rift Mage specialization over the other two. That Solas happens to have that as his spec, is a happy coincidence.

[Seraphim24]

There, corrected that for you. As not everyone might share that same sentiment. I sure don't. And you don't need to try and convince me with damage numbers as I don't care about that and play with what I enjoy. Not because it tops the damage charts or whatever nonsense.

 

I vastly prefer the Rift Mage specialization over the other two. That Solas happens to have that as his spec, is a happy coincidence.

 

Sorry but, we can "agree to disagree" if you must insist, but game mechanics are not really as subject to speculation. If ability X does more damage than Y for the same cost, it's just a straight improvement, for example.

 

Anyway Necromancer has tons of powers and abilities like good fears, CCs, drains, etc. KM has bubbles and such but RM? It's just a  poor person's healer spec with some bard like defense abilities popped in, it's not as useful.

 

Pull of the abyss is just a generic drag in spell like every other ability like it in any game like a Magus in Warhammer or whatever, and firestorm is an equally generic AE fire damage spell.

[The Elder King]

I prefe a lot KE over RM or NM. I don't see how this would make Vivienne more powerful then Solas (without considerign the fact that the latter is now far stronger).

This conversations reminds me when people, before Dorian was revealed, mocked Solas, saying he couldn't even hold a candle on Vivienne.

[Seraphim24]

I prefe a lot KE over RM or NM. I don't see how this would make Vivienne more powerful then Solas (without considerign the fact that the latter is now far stronger).

This conversations reminds me when people, before Dorian was revealed, mocked Solas, saying he couldn't even hold a candle on Vivienne.

 

KE is really good not sure if it's better than NM but certainly better than RM.

[nightscrawl]

So many answers to my post! Thanks everyone!
 
 

... and the fact that she's human is a visual rapresentation of that

Uh... I thought that was acknowledged to be a dev mistake? You know, kinda like how Solas has missing dialogue at the well of him convincing you that drinking was bad, so in the actual game he's all pissed but never offered anything other than, "I won't drink, end of discussion."
 
 

Solas was actually one of the better mages in my party roster. He could actually do something while he stands far away from the danger, and is pretty good support if you let him gain acsess to the lower part of the spirit skill tree. He weakens enemies while never directly confronting them (sounds like Solas).
 
Meanwhile as soon as you give Vivienne a spectral blade, she goes in headfirst and get herself killed. Even when I give her barrier with the passive ice shield and mana surge, she's still dying. Then when I unequip that blade, she's still useless. I'm growling in the background like "Solas would have barrier around me right about now....and not using it on himself. What the hell Vivi!?"
 
And Dorian is fabulous when you give him fire, but he cannot utilize his own necromancy specialization on his own. Constantly cancelling his own fears by attacking the same target, using fear on the most inconsequential things, etc. Maybe he does things a certain way, but he still dies a bit too much. Like bae, I love you but you gotta stop burning everything, it gets all the attention coming over to you and I know you like that, but that means death. And I know thats your thing too but still.

 
I think the AI just sucks in general, to be honest. In the Necro tree I only allow Dorian to use Walking Bomb -- the primary reason I enjoy the spec; I save Haste for special occasions, and of course take all the nice passives. Virulent Walking Bomb is a favorite and I love things exploding all over the place.

[The Elder King]

KE is really good not sure if it's better than NM but certainly better than RM.

I think it depends on people's preference.