4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Lezio]

So many answers to my post! Thanks everyone!
 
 

Uh... I thought that was acknowledged to be a dev mistake? You know, kinda like how Solas has missing dialogue at the well of him convincing you that drinking was bad, so in the actual game he's all pissed but never offered anything other than, "I won't drink, end of discussion."
 
 

 
I think the AI just sucks in general, to be honest. In the Necro tree I only allow Dorian to use Walking Bomb -- the primary reason I enjoy the spec; I save Haste for special occasions, and of course take all the nice passives. Virulent Walking Bomb is a favorite and I love things exploding all over the place.

 

I meant that, in my opinion, Flemeth being human is a nice visual rappresentation of what i think makes her different from Solas. The latter is stagnant and wants to go back to the way things were, not really trying to aknwoledge the good that can be found Thedas (or the good he could do if he just left the past behind), while the former, in my opinion, grew to accept the world as it became (cue Mythal adapting and "becoming" human in a time of humans) but without completely forgetting the past.

Flemeth is basically more balanced, in my opinion

 

 

If it was just a mistake/retcon....... well, Bioware, i suppose

[Seraphim24]

I think it depends on people's preference. 

 

I think you haven't played as many games as I have

[Shechinah]

I think it depends on people's preference. 

 

That and which spells you prefer to use and which you consider better suited to what purpose.
 

[The Elder King]

I think you haven't played as many games as I have

I don't get it. Do you mean that since you playes more games you're better at saying objectively if (regarding this case) some specializations are better then others?

[Seraphim24]

That and which spells you prefer to use and which you consider better suited to what purpose.
 

 

Veilstrike is pretty uninspiring in every situation.

 

I don't get it. Do you mean that since you playes more games you're better at saying objectively if (regarding this case) some specializations are better then others?

 

I'm just saying the objective is to beat the game yes? If you are playing a racing game and one car is just faster than the other and handles better and everything else is the same, well, then, that's kind of the end of the story.

[IllustriousT]

Veilstrike is pretty uninspiring in every situation.

 

 

I'm just saying the objective is to beat the game yes? If you are playing a racing game and one car is just faster than the other and handles better and everything else is the same, well, then, that's kind of the end of the story.

 

I think for many of us, the objective is to enjoy the game - especially games developed by Bioware - because they are very much story driven.

[Seraphim24]

I think for many of us, the objective is to enjoy the game - especially games developed by Bioware. 

 

Why not both?

[IllustriousT]

Why not both?

 

You can certainly have both. Just the weight of importance may differ for each person.  

[The Elder King]

Veilstrike is pretty uninspiring in every situation.

 

 

I'm just saying the objective is to beat the game yes? If you are playing a racing game and one car is just faster than the other and handles better and everything else is the same, well, then, that's kind of the end of the story.

 

 

I think for many of us, the objective is to enjoy the game - especially games developed by Bioware - because they are very much story driven.

 

 

Why not both?

I think different person have different reason to enjoy games, expecially roleplaying games. I understand your point though

[Seraphim24]

Well nothing says an RPG can't be a compelling game as well, in fact don't really consider a "silent protag, pure action game" as inherently a better or worse game by definition it's just different. They're all games though in the end.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Its quite a well known fact to the folks at Combat,Strategy and Gameplay that Necromancer is the strongest mage specialization in the game. You cannot die, you can dish out consistently high damage, you do not suffer from any game breaking bug and you can solo the game on Nightmare with all the Trials toggled on.

 

Just check these videos out:- https://www.youtube....lf_id=0&sort=dd

 

Knight Enchanter is in the middle. Spirit Blade and Fade Cloak are not as good as Walking Bomb and if you have Trials toggled on, you will have enemies with Barrier Breaker trait which effectively nullifies the Knight Enchanter's barrier generation.

 

Rift Mage is the weakest of the mage specialization because it relies purely on crowd control and weakness. Crowd Control does not work on the tough enemies and Rift Mage suffer from the Shock-Weakness bug.

 

Here are Rift Mage solo videos:- https://www.youtube....&view=0&sort=dd

 

You can and will notice that it takes a Rift Mage far longer to kill enemies on the highest difficulty with trials on compared to the Necromancer. So yeah, The Egghead's specialization is crappy compared to Dorian's specialization.

 

"But Pull of the Abyss is awesome !"

Pull of the Abyss does not work every time, unlike Walking Bomb which does work all the time on pretty much anything.

 

"Veilstrike...!"

Horror with Despair upgrade is far superior.

 

"What about Stonefist?"

Yeah, I will give you that one. Stonefist is the only super reliable effective spell the Rift Mage has.

 

"Rift Mage have mana regeneration !"

Necromancer has health regeneration and some mana regeneration. Extra mana can be gained using Fade Step with Energizing Step upgrade. Also, Rift Mage loses mana regeneration when fighting targets immune to Weakness or when the Shock-Weakness bug happen.

 

"What is this about Necromancer being immortal?"

Its because of Simulacrum and Death Siphon passives coupled with some enchantments. If you have a heal on hit or heal on kill enchantments and you die under Simulacrum, you will regain health back under spirit form because of the enchantment and when the Simulacrum runs out, you will be back up alive.

 

"What's this about a Walking Bomb exploit ?"

Walking Bomb takes time to hit a target. So if you are fast enough, you can fire 2 Walking Bombs in quick succession and it will only count as 65 mana. Or you can fire a Walking Bomb followed immediately with Energy Barrage and the Barrage is faster to hit on target so it will only count as 65 mana. Oh and if you use a Walking Bomb masterworks enchantment as a Necromancer, you can detonate the masterwork procced Walking Bomb to infect other targets.

 

Here is a video for that:- https://www.youtube....h?v=b6BXxlIyTQM

 

Point is, Necromancer > Rift Mage, especially for high difficulties with Trials, with KE being in the middle.

[Shechinah]

Veilstrike is pretty uninspiring in every situation.

 

 

I'm just saying the objective is to beat the game yes? If you are playing a racing game and one car is just faster than the other and handles better and everything else is the same, well, then, that's kind of the end of the story.

 

Rift Mage has more spells than Veilstrike.

 

As for your car metaphor; if I think the car is going too fast for me to enjoy the ride and I have no option of slowing said car down then I'd prefer a different car that is better suited to my purpose even if that other car might handle slightly worse. If it suits my purpose and can drive safely then that's the car I'm going with.    

 

[Seraphim24]

Rift Mage has more spells than Veilstrike.

 

As for your car metaphor; if I think the car is going too fast for me to enjoy the ride and I have no option of slowing said car down then I'd prefer a different car that is better suited to my purpose even if that other car might handle slightly worse. If it suits my purpose and can drive safely then that's the car I'm going with.    

 

Most cars that go super fast have the option to go slow as well, you need not worry

[The Elder King]

Its quite a well known fact to the folks at Combat,Strategy and Gameplay that Necromancer is the strongest mage specialization in the game. You cannot die, you can dish out consistently high damage, you do not suffer from any game breaking bug and you can solo the game on Nightmare with all the Trials toggled on.

 

Just check these videos out:- https://www.youtube....lf_id=0&sort=dd

 

Knight Enchanter is in the middle. Spirit Blade and Fade Cloak are not as good as Walking Bomb and if you have Trials toggled on, you will have enemies with Barrier Breaker trait which effectively nullifies the Knight Enchanter's barrier generation.

 

Rift Mage is the weakest of the mage specialization because it relies purely on crowd control and weakness. Crowd Control does not work on the tough enemies and Rift Mage suffer from the Shock-Weakness bug.

 

Here are Rift Mage solo videos:- https://www.youtube....&view=0&sort=dd

 

You can and will notice that it takes a Rift Mage far longer to kill enemies on the highest difficulty with trials on compared to the Necromancer. So yeah, The Egghead's specialization is crappy compared to Dorian's specialization.

 

 

"But Pull of the Abyss is awesome !"

 

Pull of the Abyss does not work every time, unlike Walking Bomb which does work all the time on pretty much anything.

Not that I disagree on your points, but game-breaking bugs shouldn't be counted on the pros and cons. It's not the specs' fault Bioware didn't fix them.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Not that I disagree on your points, but game-breaking bugs shouldn't be counted on the pros and cons. It's not the specs' fault Bioware didn't fix them.

 

The thing with the Shock-Weakness bug is that if you apply Shock on a Weakened target, both the Shock and Weakened effects cancel out to cause Sleep. So this is actually a game mechanic since this is a combo. The problem is that most enemies, especially on higher difficulties, are immune to Sleep so you lose your mana regeneration as a Rift Mage and the Sleep doesn't affect a lot of targets.

 

My point is that the Shock-Weakness phenomenan is both a game mechanic and a bug. So its safe to say that Bioware intended for Rift Magic to work this way against Shock effects. Guess now we know that the Egghead's magic is wonky.
 

[Seraphim24]

The thing with the Shock-Weakness bug is that if you apply Shock on a Weakened target, both the Shock and Weakened effects cancel out to cause Sleep. So this is actually a game mechanic since this is a combo. The problem is that most enemies, especially on higher difficulties, are immune to Sleep so you lose your mana regeneration as a Rift Mage and the Sleep doesn't affect a lot of targets.

 

My point is that the Shock-Weakness phenomenan is both a game mechanic and a bug. So its safe to say that Bioware intended for Rift Magic to work this way against Shock effects. Guess now we know that the Egghead's magic is wonky.
 

 

Higher level enemies are like always immune to sleep and stuff, in like every game.

[The Elder King]

The thing with the Shock-Weakness bug is that if you apply Shock on a Weakened target, both the Shock and Weakened effects cancel out to cause Sleep. So this is actually a game mechanic since this is a combo. The problem is that most enemies, especially on higher difficulties, are immune to Sleep so you lose your mana regeneration as a Rift Mage and the Sleep doesn't affect a lot of targets.

 

My point is that the Shock-Weakness phenomenan is both a game mechanic and a bug. So its safe to say that Bioware intended for Rift Magic to work this way against Shock effects. Guess now we know that the Egghead's magic is wonky.
 

Fair enough. It's not really only his magic though. There are others who can use it.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Fair enough. It's not really only his magic though. There are others who can use it.

 

If the Inquisitor does not specialize as a Rift Mage, only Solas and Your Trainer will be the currently known practitioners of Rift Magic. Still, if we are comparing Solas to Dorian, I would go with Dorian. Horror+Despair is beautiful when it works and Walking Bomb is a beast in either upgrade. Virulent is excellent against mobs and Concentrated Detonation is excellent against single targets. I would advice ignoring Spirit Mark as its not very good.

 

With Rift Mage, you need to have ALL the spells (minus Focus) and all the passives to get the most out of it. Under ideal conditions, Veilstrike is used for enemies like archers, Stonefist can be spammed due to its low cooldown and low cost  (mana regen recoups the spell cost), Restorative Veil allow for Immolate spamming and Pull of the Abyss is an excellent Fire Mine trap.

 

That is also another problem. Necromancer needs 7 or 8 abilities to get the most out of the specialization (4 passives, Walking Bomb+ upgrade and either upgraded Horror or unupgraded Horror) whereas Rift Mage need 10 abilities to get most out of the specialization (4 passives, 3 abilities + their upgrades).  So you need to have lots of skill points as Rift Mage compared to a Necromancer.

[Baboontje]

Sorry but, we can "agree to disagree" if you must insist, but game mechanics are not really as subject to speculation. If ability X does more damage than Y for the same cost, it's just a straight improvement, for example.

 

Anyway Necromancer has tons of powers and abilities like good fears, CCs, drains, etc. KM has bubbles and such but RM? It's just a  poor person's healer spec with some bard like defense abilities popped in, it's not as useful.

 

Pull of the abyss is just a generic drag in spell like every other ability like it in any game like a Magus in Warhammer or whatever, and firestorm is an equally generic AE fire damage spell.

 

But that's the thing. I enjoy active spells way more than CC, drains or barriers. So having more active spells available to me with Rift Mage as opposed to Necromancer's de-buffs and CC, it's just more enjoyable for me. Never mind if x does more damage than y. Same reason why I enjoyed the Primal school in DAO so much or prefered the Force Mage spec over the Blood Mage spec in DA2. Or when I played WoW, I've always been Destro with my Warlock. Even though there were certain times where Demo or Affliction locks were putting out more damage.

 

I care about none of that. I only care about playing in the way I enjoy most. So maybe game mechanics are not subject to speculation, as you put it. But they are subjective as everyone enjoys different things and not per se the thing that has the most damage output.

[Seraphim24]

But that's the thing. I enjoy active spells way more than CC, drains or barriers. So having more active spells available to me with Rift Mage as opposed to Necromancer's de-buffs and CC, it's just more enjoyable for me. Never mind if x does more damage than y. Same reason why I enjoyed the Primal school in DAO so much or prefered the Force Mage spec over the Blood Mage spec in DA2. Or when I played WoW, I've always been Destro with my Warlock. Even though there were certain times where Demo or Affliction locks were putting out more damage.

 

I care about none of that. I only care about playing in the way I enjoy most. So maybe game mechanics are not subject to speculation, as you put it. But they are subjective as everyone enjoys different things and not per se the thing that has the most damage output.

 

Er don't NM and RM have similar amounts of active skills? I can't really remember.

 

But I mean I can remember WoW better, a destruction warlock still had CC, drains, and barriers, particularly in Cataclysm they were arguably the best at it with constantly refilling meters from stringing together shadowburns to get tons of green energy to spam that burn heal thing whilist also spamming that pet shield that takes life or whatever.

 

Besides if you wanted the most active abilities a Demo warlock in Cataclysm would of filled that bill probably quite easily, moreso than Destro. I mean, even affliction warlocks were technically drains that were also active (you had to activate it with a button) not a pure passives.

[Xerrai]

Its quite a well known fact to the folks at Combat,Strategy and Gameplay that Necromancer is the strongest mage specialization in the game. You cannot die, you can dish out consistently high damage, you do not suffer from any game breaking bug and you can solo the game on Nightmare with all the Trials toggled on.

 

Just check these videos out:- https://www.youtube....lf_id=0&sort=dd

 

Knight Enchanter is in the middle. Spirit Blade and Fade Cloak are not as good as Walking Bomb and if you have Trials toggled on, you will have enemies with Barrier Breaker trait which effectively nullifies the Knight Enchanter's barrier generation.

 

Rift Mage is the weakest of the mage specialization because it relies purely on crowd control and weakness. Crowd Control does not work on the tough enemies and Rift Mage suffer from the Shock-Weakness bug.

 

Here are Rift Mage solo videos:- https://www.youtube....&view=0&sort=dd

 

You can and will notice that it takes a Rift Mage far longer to kill enemies on the highest difficulty with trials on compared to the Necromancer. So yeah, The Egghead's specialization is crappy compared to Dorian's specialization.

 

"But Pull of the Abyss is awesome !"

Pull of the Abyss does not work every time, unlike Walking Bomb which does work all the time on pretty much anything.

 

"Veilstrike...!"

Horror with Despair upgrade is far superior.

 

"What about Stonefist?"

Yeah, I will give you that one. Stonefist is the only super reliable effective spell the Rift Mage has.

 

"Rift Mage have mana regeneration !"

Necromancer has health regeneration and some mana regeneration. Extra mana can be gained using Fade Step with Energizing Step upgrade. Also, Rift Mage loses mana regeneration when fighting targets immune to Weakness or when the Shock-Weakness bug happen.

 

"What is this about Necromancer being immortal?"

Its because of Simulacrum and Death Siphon passives coupled with some enchantments. If you have a heal on hit or heal on kill enchantments and you die under Simulacrum, you will regain health back under spirit form because of the enchantment and when the Simulacrum runs out, you will be back up alive.

 

"What's this about a Walking Bomb exploit ?"

Walking Bomb takes time to hit a target. So if you are fast enough, you can fire 2 Walking Bombs in quick succession and it will only count as 65 mana. Or you can fire a Walking Bomb followed immediately with Energy Barrage and the Barrage is faster to hit on target so it will only count as 65 mana. Oh and if you use a Walking Bomb masterworks enchantment as a Necromancer, you can detonate the masterwork procced Walking Bomb to infect other targets.

 

Point is, Necromancer > Rift Mage, especially for high difficulties with Trials, with KE being in the middle.

Pfft, please. I'm sure this is your own opinion on the matter, and that's fine and valid in its own way. But rift mage < necromancer is far from an objective truth. Particularly if you compare the cases of group play (with AI) vs solo play (where you are the main controller).

 

For instance, in my playthroughs, there was no competition as to which specialization was better suited to coming with me on my endeavors. Solas and his abilities simply provided better support than Dorian or Vivienne could ever muster, even if I gave them the same abilities (excluding specialization abilities of course).

[Seraphim24]

Pfft, please. I'm sure this is your own opinion on the matter, and that's fine and valid in its own way. But rift mage < necromancer is far from an objective truth. Particularly if you compare the cases of group play (with AI) vs solo play (where you are the main controller).

 

For instance, in my playthroughs, there was no competition as to which specialization was better suited to coming with me on my endeavors. Solas and his abilities simply provided better support than Dorian or Vivienne could ever muster, even if I gave them the same abilities (excluding specialization abilities of course).

 

Well of course they provide better support they are support skills. The question isn't whether Solas offers better support but whether Dorian and Vivienne's skills provide better whatever than Solas provides support, not to mention why would you exclude specialization abilities?

[Sah291]

I meant that, in my opinion, Flemeth being human is a nice visual rappresentation of what i think makes her different from Solas. The latter is stagnant and wants to go back to the way things were, not really trying to aknwoledge the good that can be found Thedas (or the good he could do if he just left the past behind), while the latter in my opinion, grew to accept the world as it became (cue Mythal adapting and "becoming" human in a time of humans) but without completely forgetting the past.
Flemeth is basically more balanced, in my opinion
 
 
If it was just a mistake/retcon....... well, Bioware, i suppose

Well she is kinda the defacto Goddess of the current age.

The Titans, Old Gods and Evanuris? All imprisoned. Fen'Harel? Was asleep for thousands of years. The Maker? Believed to be MIA by his own followers. The Qunari? Don't really have deities.

She was really the only one out in the world, post Veil, influencing things, nudging history. So this is her world, and the one she has been nurturing.

I don't think she's Andraste, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andraste maybe met Mythal. It seems like a lot of hereos in Thedas have.

[The Elder King]

Well of course they provide better support they are support skills. The question isn't whether Solas offers better support but whether Dorian and Vivienne's skills provide better whatever than Solas provides support, not to mention why would you exclude specialization abilities?

Xerrai meant that the three mages have the same abilities, excluding the specializations because they're obviously different from each other, not that the specs are excluded from the value count (I think).

[Xerrai]

Well of course they provide better support they are support skills. The question isn't whether Solas offers better support but whether Dorian and Vivienne's skills provide better whatever than Solas provides support, not to mention why would you exclude specialization abilities?

When I said, excluding specialization abilities, I did not mean I didn't invest in them (on the contrary, every passive and active skill was unlocked), but I mean in comparison to the skills allotted. By which I mean, apart from abilities that come from their specialization (that are unique to each character), every other skill allotted to them was essentially the same among all three mages (barrier, winter's grasp, etc.). Apart from their specialization abilities, they were all built the same.

 

(Sorry if that wasn't clear)