I think you do, though.
Ok, I'll be less cheeky. I'm just saying Solas's problem stem from his inability to control others, hence becoming overly invested in it and his whole excessive "depowering" a direct consequence of his feelings of a lack of power.
And...what the heck did that have to do with what I posted? And what ceremony and pomp are you talking about? *still confused*
Not really sure I see how he's a stepdown from Corypheus. We don't really know how that 'end of the world' would really look, but I don't just judge the threat of Coryhpeus only because we saw that we absolutely have to stop him to prevent the dark future we saw in Redcliffe. Even in Redcliffe it was sort of implied that despite Cory getting portion of what he wanted (dominance over the world) he didn't really get it all - he was unable to recreate the Anchor and enter the Black City and was about to lash out at Alexius for his failure to turn back time before the Conclave. And despite having his own agency, Corypheus always felt like a pawn or a red herring - someone who is a threat, but only because he's used by other powers or uses powers he doesn't really understand.
True, Corypheus didn't seem to be in complete control of his plans... but given that Solas is the God of Spectacular Backfires, that doesn't paint the Dread Wolf in a better light. Let's not forget that current Thedas is Solas' version of the bad future, and Solas is even in less control than Corypheus was in his.
Plus - I don't just mean "threat" just in terms of danger of the world. Unlike Corypheus Solas seems to know A LOT about the past - the Old Gods, Archdemons, Evanuris, Titans, and maybe not the Maker, but certainly the Blight, how the world was before, and what is it that he thinks the people are lacking.
I have to disagree in that regard too. Certainly, Solas knows a lot about past Elvhenan, the Evanuris, the Veil, the spirits and the Fade than practically every other person we've met so far. BUT his knowledge starts faltering precisely when Old Gods, Archdemons, Red Lyrium and especially the Blight are involved (he also doesn't provide much insight on Titans). He questions a lot, which is fitting of his character, but never provides any answer related to those subjects while he's more than happy to show off in the other cases.
I don't blame him, since those are matters that became important after he went to sleep for thousands of years, but scepticism doesn't equal knowledge and it was precisely his overconfidence born of ignorance what allowed Corypheus to hijack his original plan in Inquisition. Tevinter may yet have secrets that not even Fen'Harel knows of.
And...what the heck did that have to do with what I posted? And what ceremony and pomp are you talking about? *still confused*
Solas and his "enjoy your time you have left" and all that circa anchor and depowering and arm business.
I just was noticing it seems to be a thing where he lacks meaningful control (in general) and consequently resorts to such "ceremony" as I called it.
Then I was stating not really related to anything you said or a particular event that he seems to psychologically get over kind of psyched into situations involving power and control, specifically that it may be a direct response to his feelings of powerlessness in this regard generally.
Solas and his "enjoy your time you have left" and all that circa anchor and depowering and arm business.
I just was noticing it seems to be a thing where he lacks meaningful control (in general) and consequently resorts to such "ceremony" as I called it.
Then I was stating not really related to anything you said or a particular event that he seems to psychologically get over kind of psyched into situations involving power and control, specifically that it may be a direct response to his feelings of powerlessness in this regard generally.
I wasn't talking about Solas, nor do I blame him for that. My anger exists on a meta-level and it is directed at the writers. Making the protagonist lose everything they gained in the course of their story in its epilogue, nullyfying the ending of the story proper, that's an appallingly annoying storytelling technique, a hidden downer that slaps you in the face right as you delight in the supposedly real ending that came before.
In-world, things make sense. Regardless of whether Solas really saves you from death when he takes your arm, or he takes it because he doesn't want you to have the anchor, or he needs its power, his actions are perfectly reasonable from his point of view. I may take issue with it on behalf of my Inquisitors, but I, the player, I'm not annoyed about it. I reserve that for deceiving me with an ending I like and taking that away in the story's epilogue.
True, Corypheus didn't seem to be in complete control of his plans... but given that Solas is the God of Spectacular Backfires, that doesn't paint the Dread Wolf in a better light. Let's not forget that current Thedas is Solas' version of the bad future, and Solas is even in less control than Corypheus was in his.
Well, no, not really. Solas's plan might have been a more or less spectacular backfire, but it was also a last-ditch effort before - from what we know - something even more spectacularly disastrous was about to happen. He saved the world and - no matter how 'bad' that world is now - he gave it another chance, for more than a few millenia, while Cory's epic ruling ruined it for everyone in about a year.
Then there's the fact that it's not the first Cory's disastrous mistake, where he - again - toyed with powers he didn't understand. After all, he was the one who took his buddies on a trip that turned Golden City into Black one.
Solas might have either not fully known - or known, but couldn't really do much - the extents of how the Veil could impact and change the world, but from the look of it he's known exactly who he was going against and possibly what they could potentially unleash on the world.
I have to disagree in that regard too. Certainly, Solas knows a lot about past Elvhenan, the Evanuris, the Veil, the spirits and the Fade than practically every other person we've met so far. BUT his knowledge starts faltering precisely when Old Gods, Archdemons, Red Lyrium and especially the Blight are involved (he also doesn't provide much insight on Titans). He questions a lot, which is fitting of his character, but never provides any answer related to those subjects while he's more than happy to show off in the other cases.
Hang on - how do you know his knowledge begins faltering?
We do know that there/s a connection between Old Gods/Archdemons and Evanuris, since they were a focus of Flemeth since DAO and in OGB world-state we get to see that not only Uthremiel uses the same kind of blue power Flemythal/Solas uses, but she explicitly calls him 'a piece of someone long thought lost' and later takes his soul into her. And we do know that Mythal and Solas worked (if they're still not working) together and known each other for a very long time.
Solas also reacts to Wardens' plans with horror, calling the whole thing a terrible mistake that could make tings 'even worse' - and it's one of the few instances in the game where he shows a lot of emotion. He's freaking out in fact - it seems that the Blight terrifies him absolutely. At one point he even calls it "the real problem", says it's not a power 'one smugly outsmarts', tells Vivienne that it's something that corrupts everything and only a fool uses it and lets us know that 'the fools who first unleashed the Blight on the world thought they're unlocking the ultimate power'... which realistically couldn't have been Corypheus and his team, because they didn't really go to the Golden City for explicit purpose of unleashing anything.
(We also have the old elven tales that mention Andruil getting mad and 'howling things that should be forgotten'' and hunting even gods, until Mythal stopped her. There are also Cole's cryptic comments in which he mentions that Solas "broke the dreams to stop old dreams from waking".)
I think it's pretty safe to assume that he knows more about the Blight than he lets out. The fact that he doesn't speak much about it doesn't mean that he has no answers - only that for one reason or another he doesn't want anyone to know.
And he's not the only one to do that. Both he and Flemythal do sound sometimes like there are mysteries about the old world they want to take with themselves to their grave (btw. when Inky asks her if she knows what they're fighting with, she she only says "more than you could ever imagine".... In fact, how is it that it's HER Well that provides an important insight into the workings of red blight magic Corypheus uses?).
...As for Titans:
Yes, it's Solas. It's his mural - that we can find in an ancient mine riddled with *his statues* and containing deep lyrium well surrounded by what seem to be ancient elves in uthenera - and it's him depicted on this mural, apparently striking the Titan.
So yes, he probably knows a bit about them too - or at the very least what happened to them and/or dwarves.
He consistently keeps pestering Varric with questions like "does Orzammar researches lyrium and did they find anything interesting?" or "Varric, do you miss your special connection with the Stone?" or makes cryptic comments like "the dwarves are a severed arm of a once-mighty hero..."
As for Descent - his first dialogue in DLC (when they're taking the lift down to the mines) is literally suggesting that there's something intriguing dwarves are connected to. He doesn't have more banters than other companions, but he's also the one who is consistently pushing to investigate the whole thing, as if he wants us to go and find out.
I wasn't talking about Solas, nor do I blame him for that. My anger exists on a meta-level and it is directed at the writers. Making the protagonist lose everything they gained in the course of their story in its epilogue, nullyfying the ending of the story proper, that's an appallingly annoying storytelling technique, a hidden downer that slaps you in the face right as you delight in the supposedly real ending that came before.
Solas is sort of responsible for your situation though, anyway I know it wasn't a direct connection, but your post gave me that idea because it referenced the situation generally.
The part about Solas being excessively control-infatuated in response to his own feelings of weakness and inability in that respect is purely going off that semblance of a connection on my own and doesn't have anything to do with your post so really you shouldn't have expected that part to tie in (not saying it was solely that part however)
I wasn't talking about Solas, nor do I blame him for that. My anger exists on a meta-level and it is directed at the writers. Making the protagonist lose everything they gained in the course of their story in its epilogue, nullyfying the ending of the story proper, that's an appallingly annoying storytelling technique, a hidden downer that slaps you in the face right as you delight in the supposedly real ending that came before.
Not really sure I pity them so much - instead of dealing with pestering nobles they go on another adventure to save the world again 
I also wouldn't say that they've been "depowered" so much - they might not be the biggest player on the Southern field, but it's unlikely they're just left cold on ice.
If they led well and make connections, they have considerable allies everywhere on the continent. They have more than likely amassed a considerable fortune (if not, they can always steal the gold from Solas in Trespasser ) *as well as* power of varying sorts - from favors and friends in high places (Divine, heads of state, heads of magical institutions, Kirkwall viscount, large Antivan family of traders with a new fleet, etc) to knowledge and ancient secrets, as well as sheer raw strenght separate from the Mark itself. I mean, it's not like they needed the Anchor to down literally a dozen dragons or Deep Roads full of darkspawn (which were more full of them than during the Blight in Ferelden, since most of them marched on surface back then) or even frikking guardian of the Titan or reawakened Avvar god with their small tam.
They'll be fine.
As for the hand - I can only imagine that with all the access to the magical institutions and most brilliant minds in Thedas (Dorian, Dagna, Bianca) they're going to get themselves a badass prosthetic, which... well who knows - maybe it'll even be able to shoot magical lasers or something 
Solas is sort of responsible for your situation though, anyway I know it wasn't a direct connection, but your post gave me that idea because it referenced the situation generally.
I see you like to attribute a lot of blame to Solas whenever possible, sometimes to extreme degree, while at the same time not giving him any credit for anything. While he obviously is responsible for Inky's situation, don't forget he's also responsible for their rise to power.
And yes, I know you said earlier that it's "on Cassandra" - well no, that's not how it works. Cassandra was the one that officially announced the beginning of the Inquisition and worked with the Divine on organizing everything in case if was necessary, BUT....there would be no Inquisition in shape that it was if it wasn't for the Breach and the cause around it.
Accidental as it was, there would not be a miraculous Herald Of Andraste and future Inquisitor if it wasn't for the Mark they bear. In fact there would be no stopping of Corypheus and his Templar/Warden/mage/demon army invading the South (which he didn't need the Orb for anyway) if it wasn't for what happened at the Conclave.
So... the very same object that was supposed to destroy, also gave the world means to counter Corypheus' threat and effectively let to the rise of a hero that may either stop or redeem Fen;Harel.
And it's not like Solas's contributions to this state end on giving Orb to Cory, or that they were negative - he saves Inky's life in haven, he teaches how to use the Mark, he gives valuable advice, gives them his old stronghold and eventually he saves them both from life-threatening effects of Anchor-wielding and the invading Qunari.
And it's not like Solas's contributions to this state end on giving Orb to Cory, or that they were negative - he saves Inky's life in haven, he teaches how to use the Mark, he gives valuable advice, gives them his old stronghold and eventually he saves them both from life-threatening effects of Anchor-wielding and the invading Qunari.
The orb to Cory is all you need to condemn his character.
The orb to Cory is all you need to condemn his character.
So a mistake or a miscalculation condemns a person for all eternity, and means that we can just attribute all evil while ignoring all the good?
Well then what about Hawke and Varic? They did in fact release Corypheus on the world. Without them there would be no Corypheus to give Orb to.
So a mistake or a miscalculation condemns a person for all eternity?
Well then what about Hawke and Varic? They did in fact release Corypheus on the world. Without them there would be no Corypheus to give Orb to.
Mistake? It's intentional, the mistake I believe he stated was in reference to some of the details and permutations, but fundamentally it was intentional.
Mistake? It's intentional, the mistake I believe he stated was in reference to some of the details and permutations, but fundamentally it was intentional.
The only thing that was intentional was to give the Orb to kill him with it after he manages to unlock it.
The only thing that was intentional was to give the Orb to kill him with it after he manages to unlock it.
I'm not saying the Orb itself or even Corypheus is the thing here, but it's the first step Solas takes intentionally towards his larger plan of burning down Thedas. Up until that point the effects and possibilities, and consequences, are pretty much just in his head.
@Mistic,
I agree, Solas did not appear to know much about how Tevinter magic evolved since the days of Elvhenan and that they knew a method for immortality. Whatever method the ancient elves used, the Veil prevented it in modern Thedas. But the Magisters found a loophole or way around it, and I suppose were taught magic primarily by the Old Gods, and did not get all their knowledge from the fallen Elvhenan.
The Old Gods were post Veil powers and their domains seem to be very different from the Evanuris, mostly dealing with the darker and more shadow aspects of magic (gods of silence, night, mystery, etc). This is one reason why I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory of the Old Gods being the imprisoned Evanuris.
I guess it's possible that they could have been transformed somehow by being imprisoned, but if they are connected to the Evanuris at all, it makes more sense they would be another half of the pantheon, or from a different people altogether.
But yeah, Solas didn't see all this coming. Unless you want to speculate he intended to sabotage his own plan, and allowed Cory to run amok for a while on purpose.
Well yeah, but not knowing about the Tevene magic or effects of direct contact with the Blight in Golden City, doesn't invalidate his knowledge on other subjects most people have forgotten about or never heard before.
I mean, I obviously wasn't not arguing that Solas knows everything. In fact my exact sentence that began this section of discussion was "unlike Corypheus Solas seems to know A LOT about the past - the Old Gods, Archdemons, Evanuris, Titans, and maybe not the Maker, but certainly the Blight, how the world was before, and what is it that he thinks the people are lacking." which by no means implies absolute knowledge.
He also knew there would be an explosion... so the explosion was also intentional.
And it's unreasonable to think that Corypheus could have just activated the orb in a field with no deaths... so Solas must have known at that at least "one" being had to be sacrificed to the orb.
So - sacrifice... also intentional.
SO... not only was the elf ignorant to the "effective immortality" that blindsided his arrogance - but, he also didn't care much "how" Corypheus went about getting the orb open.
Go into the middle of Minrathous? Val Royeaux? Denerim? Who cares... so long as I get my toy working. I'm ancient and I don't feel for these modern people so it's okay.
Solas is like Latin... cool to know, but ultimately useless in every day life.
I'm not saying the Orb itself or even Corypheus is the thing here, but it's the first step Solas takes intentionally towards his larger plan of burning down Thedas. Up until that point the effects and possibilities, and consequences, are pretty much just in his head.
I'm not arguing that Solas gave the Orb to Cory to further his own plan, but I'd like to note that they were undone 'merely' by a fact that Corypheus is capable of body-hopping and a cosmic coincidence nobody could really predict, which is Inky him/herself interrupting the ritual and acquiring the Mystery Mark for themselves.
I'm not arguing that Solas gave the Orb to Cory to further his own plan
Meaning you accept that point? If so and that's my only point.
Also... I wonder if there's a group of people who have spent the last few thousands years dealing with the Blight and who sealed Corypheus away and knew he was immortal?
I wonder if there was anyone Solas could have talked before going ahead with his plan that might have provided him with some knowledge?
If only he was a question asker and not just a talker who admires questions directed at him.
Also... I wonder if there's a group of people who have spent the last few thousands years dealing with the Blight and who sealed Corypheus away and knew he was immortal?
I wonder if there was anyone Solas could have talked to before going ahead with his plan that might have provided him with some knowledge?
If only he was a question asker and not just a talker who admires questions directed at him.
A lot of Solas's knowledge about these other matters also sort of leads one to question whether he is in fact one of the instigators.
A lot of Solas's knowledge about these other matters also sort of leads one to question whether he is in fact one of the instigators.
Knowledge about what matters exactly?
I don't think Solas has much knowledge at all about anything from the last 3000 years.
So a mistake or a miscalculation condemns a person for all eternity, and means that we can just attribute all evil while ignoring all the good?
Well then what about Hawke and Varric? They did in fact release Corypheus on the world. Without them there would be no Corypheus to give Orb to.
Its not that. Its the fact that Solas deliberately and intentionally planned for the Orb to fall to Corypheus hands and he knew that there will be a large explosion when Corypheus unlocked his Orb. He knew that the explosion caused by unlocking the Orb would kill a lot of people, he knew that he would be handing it to someone who views and treats Elves as garbage rats yet he did it anyway. The worst part is that he got away scot-free and did not have to face the music.
Hawke and Varric did not deliberately and intentionally unleash Corypheus. Hawke and Varric did not plan to blow up any place and kill lots of people. Other characters in game such as Captain Thom Rainier, Mayor Gregory Dedrick and Mistress Poulin had to face the consequences of their actions and be judged for it. Solas escaped this and now, he plans to kill a lot more people.
Intent matters when it comes to crime. Solas, through his agents, had every intent of giving the Orb to someone who viewed Elves as garbage rats. Solas had every intent of letting that Orb cause a massive explosion which would result in a huge loss of life. Likewise, we learn in Trespasser that he plans to intentionally commit mass genocide.
One of the major reasons people dislike Solas that you are unable to understand is that Solas has deliberately and intentionally responsible for one mass murder, he intentionally and deliberately withheld vital information via lie by omission and now he is deliberately and intentionally planning another one - Yet he gets to walk away scot-free without any form of punishment.
Cause:- Solas created the Veil, banished the Evanuris and went to sleep.
Effect:- The Elven empire fell, the Elven people lost their immortality, many Elves lost their ability to use magic.
Cause:- Solas allowed Corypheus to have his Orb.
Effect:- An explosion that killed lots of people which resulted in a large hole in the Sky and lots of other mini-holes which caused much suffering across the continent.
Cause:- Solas romances Lavellan and chickens out at the last moment.
Effect:- Lavellan is heartbroken, she might lose her Vallaslin and she has to contend with Solas stalking her in her dreams.
Cause:- Solas' Orb is unwittingly destroyed.
Effect:- Flemeth has to die or lose her life force.
Cause:- Solas plans to destroy the Veil.
Effect:- The Evanuris are unleashed, the Titans reawaken, powerfully dangerous demons like the Nightmare walks scot-free, whole lot of people die, etc.
People who dislike Solas dislike him because he personally never gets to face the consequences of any of his actions at all. Its always everyone else that suffers because of what he does, not him. I simply want him to personally face the consequences of his actions, like many other characters have had to.
Meaning you accept that point? If so and that's my only point.
You're missing the point. I'm accepting the point of giving Cory the orb for specific reasons - what I'm NOT accepting is just seeing all the evil and ignoring all the good that either came out of it, or Solas actively worked for.
And I'm not extending it just to Solas. I keep calling Corypheus "an unwitting savior of the world" - because that's what he technically did; he not only opened the Breach, he gave the world the cause to unite against. I always try and look at the bigger picture and the bizarre turns life can take.
Now.. the difference between Cory and Solas is that Cory seem to have never really considered that he's doing something wrong and his hubris pushes him towards realizing a mad plan of eventually storming the gates of Heaven for his own benefit, no matter how much he dresses it as "giving the world the god it needs" - Solas on the other hand has a cause that doesn't seem so selfish; he wants to save his people and restore the missing connection to the Fade to everyone. And even though he thinks that it justifies the means he took, he rushes to try and fix the results of his mistake, stays and helps the Inquisition despite a risk to his life and possible reveal of the truth and saves them at the end, at the expense of possibly giving people a way to undo the very plans he pretty much gave his life for. So this is certainly not a black-and-white issue as you're trying to present it.
Also... I wonder if there's a group of people who have spent the last few thousands years dealing with the Blight and who sealed Corypheus away and knew he was immortal?
I wonder if there was anyone Solas could have talked before going ahead with his plan that might have provided him with some knowledge?
If only he was a question asker and not just a talker who admires questions directed at him.
Did he even know that Corypheus was an ancient darkspawn magister at that time and that he was sealed away by the Grey Wardens at one point?
Also, not directly related, but how long as he been "awake" by the time we meet him?
Also... I wonder if there's a group of people who have spent the last few thousands years dealing with the Blight and who sealed Corypheus away and knew he was immortal?
Oh, you mean the very same people who had the briiiiilliant idea for killing the remaining Old Gods without really asking themselves whether they really know enough by Old Gods to not consider this might have disastrous results?
They were the ones who might have unlocked Corypheus, but I'd like to point out that they've eventually helped to let him escape and let themselves being manipulated by him and began creating a demon army for him, because most of the Wardens - not even seniors - DIDN'T KNOW about Corypheus existence or what he was.
Yeah, I don't think they have any answers Solas would be satisfied with.
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